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There is a lot of divisionism in social media and a LOT of learning needs to happen to improve a lot of anxieties that exist in the world. TWTD forums has kind of gone the same way as mass social media where a lot of opinions are presented as fact, with links to sources (often spurious) just to back them up.
Make no mistake, the world isn't hurting because of a lefty woke agenda and the conservative view isn't the return of the Nazi's, but its because we've fallen into the fox hole of populism and tribal thinking. UK's strength was always in it's ability to be objective and suspicious of the narrative until it was beyond a doubt.
Yet in the last decade, we're quite happy to attack anything that isn't in line with our own point of view, and this often mean people who are in our communities. Is there a point when we can go back to respecting that we're all town fans, and the divisive topics are more about asking questions than stating made up facts?
Don't get me wrong, in my younger years on this forum, I've had instances of being a knob which I am more than happy to admit to, but there is being a nob and then there is being cruel to people - the latter is something that happens on social media and on here.
I already know a subset of users say "Be Kind" in parody, but that isn't what I'm trying to say. Be objective and question BS, don't peddle BS as a weapon - it just makes this place crap at times.
I agree with yuor comments. The problem with social media is user's have the ability to hide behind a user name and a keyboard. I have yet to hear things posted on social media spoken in the same way down the pub. Perhaps post how you would talk to somone face to face.
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If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 10:03 - Oct 4 with 2857 views
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 09:50 - Oct 4 by Leaky
I agree with yuor comments. The problem with social media is user's have the ability to hide behind a user name and a keyboard. I have yet to hear things posted on social media spoken in the same way down the pub. Perhaps post how you would talk to somone face to face.
What you say is true, of course, there is more of a chance of fk about and find out in person, though I have had to stop my ma from going into rabbit holes of BS because she saw a facebook post about it.
Sadly, the online world know who to target and how to target them - and as we've seen, shape the outcome of real world events. Social media bubbles make it far to comfortable for people to accept BS if they feel they are part of a 'club', and I do think that is spilling out into the 'real world' as we've seen in recent news.
Humans survived by being in tribes. This is just the modern version of that.
It astonishes me how people quite happily post things that clearly aren't true and support people or groups who have done bad things (and often bad things to them) but the tribal instinct is so strong it's like they're blind to it.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 10:21 - Oct 4 with 2767 views
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 10:16 - Oct 4 by The_Flashing_Smile
Humans survived by being in tribes. This is just the modern version of that.
It astonishes me how people quite happily post things that clearly aren't true and support people or groups who have done bad things (and often bad things to them) but the tribal instinct is so strong it's like they're blind to it.
If we look at the time line of humanity, is it not the case of "Tribal to survive, Independent to thrive"?
"TWTD forums has kind of gone the same way as mass social media where a lot of opinions are presented as fact, with links to sources (often spurious) just to back them up."
Really? I'm on here a lot and haven't seen any "opinions ... presented as fact, with links to sources (often spurious) just to back them up." for months, at least that haven't been very quickly slapped down by others.
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 10:32 - Oct 4 by Ryorry
"TWTD forums has kind of gone the same way as mass social media where a lot of opinions are presented as fact, with links to sources (often spurious) just to back them up."
Really? I'm on here a lot and haven't seen any "opinions ... presented as fact, with links to sources (often spurious) just to back them up." for months, at least that haven't been very quickly slapped down by others.
Why should they see the light of day to begin with, which is in essence the core of the message. As for 'opinions presented as fact' - it isn't hard to find instances of this. Well, maybe it is as Phil often ends up pulling those posts eventually.
People get way to intrenched in what they believe to be true or substantiate their point of view that fact checking comes later or not at all. There have been a number of posts linked from other areas of social media, some of those sources in high profile scandals of making stuff up.
While I am not accusing anyone of linking these and knowing they're made up, it is clear to see a little objective digging is in short supply when it backs up a point of view.
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 10:40 - Oct 4 by wkj
Why should they see the light of day to begin with, which is in essence the core of the message. As for 'opinions presented as fact' - it isn't hard to find instances of this. Well, maybe it is as Phil often ends up pulling those posts eventually.
People get way to intrenched in what they believe to be true or substantiate their point of view that fact checking comes later or not at all. There have been a number of posts linked from other areas of social media, some of those sources in high profile scandals of making stuff up.
While I am not accusing anyone of linking these and knowing they're made up, it is clear to see a little objective digging is in short supply when it backs up a point of view.
I guess not everyone is as fully informed and thoroughly enlightened as you. I'm sure I myself have sometimes posted things from Twitter in good faith as they seemed perfectly credible, only to be corrected by more knowledgeable people on here, and that's fine.
Better to expose things to the light of day & have them discredited (if that's warranted) than to be scared of ever posting anything in case it might not pass muster.
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 10:21 - Oct 4 by wkj
If we look at the time line of humanity, is it not the case of "Tribal to survive, Independent to thrive"?
Not really. At least the second part.
More the case of the economies of scale getting broader and increasing interlinking of "tribes" into bigger (if looser) units. Civilisation is based on cooperation and integration.
A move from "little tribes" (the definitions of which are often spurious, if not actually mythical) to bigger "communities", in a sense.
That may be indepenence in the sense of breaking away from such strong adherence to the smaller tribal units.
I agree that social media seems to thrive on divisionism creating tribalism that is unwilling to listen to the other side. It’s not healthy and I’m guilty of this as well.
But don’t you think that such divides is actually powered by real life? Mainstream politicians (and a well known hate preacher) creating friction which they present as fact. So in this, Twitter etc is simply a reflection on politics but on acid.
The only way in which such extremes can be reigned in is if social media are forced to clamp down heavily on such downright lies. And if mainstream media and politicians are censured if they are disingenuous with the truth.
For me it’s a simple process - so simple that it’s naive.
1. If Facebook etc are not compliant with clamping down on hate-filled content then the plug is switched off for their devices to operate.
2. Newspapers print downright lies then their retraction or apology has to be as prominent as the original article.
This will probably then be reflected later on social media.
Sorry if I’ve gone off on a tangent.
[Post edited 4 Oct 2024 11:52]
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If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 11:44 - Oct 4 with 2371 views
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 11:38 - Oct 4 by MattinLondon
I agree that social media seems to thrive on divisionism creating tribalism that is unwilling to listen to the other side. It’s not healthy and I’m guilty of this as well.
But don’t you think that such divides is actually powered by real life? Mainstream politicians (and a well known hate preacher) creating friction which they present as fact. So in this, Twitter etc is simply a reflection on politics but on acid.
The only way in which such extremes can be reigned in is if social media are forced to clamp down heavily on such downright lies. And if mainstream media and politicians are censured if they are disingenuous with the truth.
For me it’s a simple process - so simple that it’s naive.
1. If Facebook etc are not compliant with clamping down on hate-filled content then the plug is switched off for their devices to operate.
2. Newspapers print downright lies then their retraction or apology has to be as prominent as the original article.
This will probably then be reflected later on social media.
Sorry if I’ve gone off on a tangent.
[Post edited 4 Oct 2024 11:52]
I think that real life and social media divisionism fuel one another. For better or worse, Obama was the first politician to fully embrace the potential of Social media, and then comes Trump who has proven that if you get enough engagement you can say what you want.
Should social media be banned? Well, no - that would be a sledgehammer to a grape, but if you have big platforms making a lot of money and have grown to big to moderate their own platform - then a big slice of those profits have to go into figuring out how to moderate.
For the every day Joe, such as ourselves - it is a case of 'Know your bullsh*t' before you push it.
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 11:44 - Oct 4 by wkj
I think that real life and social media divisionism fuel one another. For better or worse, Obama was the first politician to fully embrace the potential of Social media, and then comes Trump who has proven that if you get enough engagement you can say what you want.
Should social media be banned? Well, no - that would be a sledgehammer to a grape, but if you have big platforms making a lot of money and have grown to big to moderate their own platform - then a big slice of those profits have to go into figuring out how to moderate.
For the every day Joe, such as ourselves - it is a case of 'Know your bullsh*t' before you push it.
I don’t think that social media will ever be banned but if it refuses to censure its most extreme content then the option to switch it off should be on the table. I think that threat will bring such large organisations into line.
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If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 12:07 - Oct 4 with 2261 views
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 11:55 - Oct 4 by MattinLondon
I don’t think that social media will ever be banned but if it refuses to censure its most extreme content then the option to switch it off should be on the table. I think that threat will bring such large organisations into line.
I suspect that there are many eyes on Musk from a government point of view, he's basically turned twitter from a largely lefty voice into a free-for-all of whatever goes. If the government feels it is too disruptive to their causes, maybe...
Thought there are clearly larger bleed through issues now.
This could well be partly down to the speed of which fake sources get pushed out. One of the worlds leading Tech universities, if not the leading tech university, did a study of speed of fake stories spreading, and it turns out they spread faster than the real news. Why is this? I suspect because the 1000's of micro communities that cite these posts as sources without knowing/caring that they're fake.
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 12:26 - Oct 4 by Pinewoodblue
Your final sentence is the reason for discourse.
Be objective and question BS, don't peddle BS as a weapon - it just makes this place crap at times.
The problem is it the questioning of BS, rather than ignoring it, than makes this place crap at times.
No one is ever going to change their views as a result of being corrected on social media. Don’t poke the fire let it fade away.
I can't say that you're wrong, though I have to admit I mean it more in the context of question/investigate one's sources before running with it into a debate.
I would love to let a lot fade away, but the is noticeable number of dearly departed TWTD users, some I am friends with and others I didn't care so much for. Despite the absence of these posters and many claims of it being a better place - threads are still getting pulled regularly, and its a shame as the diversity of opinion and sharing of experiences is what TWTD was great at in the earlier days.
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 12:33 - Oct 4 by wkj
I can't say that you're wrong, though I have to admit I mean it more in the context of question/investigate one's sources before running with it into a debate.
I would love to let a lot fade away, but the is noticeable number of dearly departed TWTD users, some I am friends with and others I didn't care so much for. Despite the absence of these posters and many claims of it being a better place - threads are still getting pulled regularly, and its a shame as the diversity of opinion and sharing of experiences is what TWTD was great at in the earlier days.
There are posters I avoid responding to as it is counter productive. If no one responds a post soon drops off page one.
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 12:26 - Oct 4 by Pinewoodblue
Your final sentence is the reason for discourse.
Be objective and question BS, don't peddle BS as a weapon - it just makes this place crap at times.
The problem is it the questioning of BS, rather than ignoring it, than makes this place crap at times.
No one is ever going to change their views as a result of being corrected on social media. Don’t poke the fire let it fade away.
This. Exactly. 100%. You will not change someone else's opinion on here or elsewhere - don't like what they post, then just ignore it. This site is just a microcosm of life, there are an even share of people with opposing views, the only thing we have in common is we follow ITFC (well 99% seem to).
I'm not perfect, and sometimes I find myself getting drawn in and replying when I should know better and then I immediately regret it, as my comment changes nothing. I've deleted Twitter and removed myself from a lot of Facebook groups and "friends" who are just antagonistic and frankly unpleasant.
If something now starts to wind me up on here or elsewhere, I have to think to myself whether it is worth my effort, and generally it's not, so I close the post/page and move on.
There's too much noise and unpleasantness in the world without someone as insignifcant as me chipping in :-)
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If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 13:16 - Oct 4 with 1941 views
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 09:50 - Oct 4 by Leaky
I agree with yuor comments. The problem with social media is user's have the ability to hide behind a user name and a keyboard. I have yet to hear things posted on social media spoken in the same way down the pub. Perhaps post how you would talk to somone face to face.
Those were the days when you could discuss things down the pub. Pubs hardly exist nowadays! Social media has become the virtual public bar.
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If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 13:19 - Oct 4 with 1902 views
If this discourse carries on, we're basically Twitter on 13:16 - Oct 4 by BlueForYou
Those were the days when you could discuss things down the pub. Pubs hardly exist nowadays! Social media has become the virtual public bar.
Social media woulda been the crappiest pub in town back in the day. Woulda been the place the local teenage goths drank in. The Queens Head in Haverhill..
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