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I watched the current series on Netflix about UFOs. Which was interesting and many people were discussing their interactions with UFOs.
And then today on YouTube theres this latest Congress committee thing that was held yesterday. These seem like qualified and serious people giving testimony.
This stuff is easy to poke fun at, but why would these guys want to make stuff up?
I think its pretty inconceivable that there's not life outside of Earth when you consider the vastness of what's 'out there'. Whether there's life sufficiently advanced to a) be aware of our existence and b) make contact is interesting to ponder. I don't think it's particularly implausible though when you consider how immature we are as a species in the grand scheme of things. The first telescope was only invented 400 years ago and first space travel only 60 odd. Relatively speaking we know naff all.
I'd love to know for sure, its always absolutely fascinated me.
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UFO stuff or UAP on 13:55 - Nov 15 with 1332 views
- Disinformation aimed at China - To cover up for security failures (see Chinese spy balloon episode) - setting up the post military career YouTube grifting.
Also, on this, why does anyone make anything up? Kudos, self-importance, connection to others, excitement, purpose etc.
Well, you know, you can't talk about fight club if there's no fight club... ;)
20 years ago today since the tic tac encounters started iirc. This is worth a watch imo if you were interested in George Knapps Netflix series
And those guys can't make it up, they were sworn in, lying to a Congressional hearing means jail time. Weirdly for some of them telling the whole truth, by breaking NDAs or national security also means jail time which is why some of the question's they couldn't answer in public session
But did you spot the reference in the hearing to the Rendlesham forest UFO/UAP. ?
They’re gunning for AARO and companies like Lockheed Martin, plenty of barbs aimed at Susan Gough.
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UFO stuff or UAP on 18:25 - Nov 15 with 1245 views
It's an interesting subject with a lot of points to consider.
Firstly, it's probably important to note that Knapp isn't impartial, his income is derived from UAP conferences and shows like this. That doesn't mean he's wrong but it's something to consider when evaluating what he says.
Having said all that, something is probably going on. The main possibilities are:
- Aliens - Other creatures from Earth - Military Tech - All of the above - Nothing
So in order:
Aliens
The real issue here is that with our understanding of physics it's very hard to get about in the galaxy. It's not impossible, a species expanding out at a reasonable fraction of the speed of light can colonise most of our galaxy in a few million years if solely devoted to the task but it would be a massive undertaking.
Now of course our understanding of physics is far from complete and there are theoretical methods of going faster than light but they require things which are currently impossible like negative energy. It is however safe to say if "they" could get here then the observed performance of various anomalies would probably be possible with that level of technology. It's certainly within the realms of what we could achieve with known technological pathways within probably a few hundred years.
The real question is why be all secretive? Would we be secretive if we went to another populated planet? Perhaps we would but it's hard to know. If they are aliens then their thoughts and motives would also be alien and hard to assess from a human viewpoint.
Other creatures from Earth
This one is very interesting although problematic. Given most of the interactions nowadays seem to revolve around large bodies of water why couldn't it be an aquatic species from Earth who are just rather annoyed at how we are trashing the planet and the oceans.
We know very little about the deep sea, we are constantly discovering new creatures and we have mapped very little of the seafloor. It's possible something could have evolved in the oceans a long time before us and they are simply further along the path of technological progress.
However, the big problem there is that from our understanding it would be incredibly difficult to develop technological civilisation underwater. Fire was extremely important in our development along with metallurgy and electronics and all are very hard underwater.
This hypothesis would however negate all the issues with time, distance and physics that occur when trying to get around the galaxy.
Military Tech
This is probably the most likely one of the three outlined above. It's certainly believable that some arms of the military wouldn't tell other arms what they are doing and the stuff we get to see is decades out of date.
The F117 and B2 stealth planes, still the pinnacle of military aviation technology both started development in the early 1970's and were operational in the mid 1980's. That's nearly 50 years ago now and if you think at what computers or cars were like then compared to now and extrapolate for aviation projects with huge budgets it's hard to know what kind of stuff they fly around which is 50 years of development ahead of that.
The tic-tac's really don't look like impossible tech if you take the B2 and extrapolate for 50 years of black budget funding. The other common ship which is sighted is the black triangles and they are almost certainly US black projects.
It's pretty much safe to say that the stuff we don't see if probably incredible compared to the stuff we do see.
All of the above
This one is the most fun, imagine if it was all of the above, now that really is a story if it ever becomes public.
Nothing
Hard to see that this is true but many people spend time creating analysis to debunk a lot of these videos so it's worth considering a point.
It's a debate that is going to run and run until governments come out and make a statement, even then there will be people on both sides who won't believe any such statement.
SB
I’m pro UFO, as I had a genuine sighting in broad daylight in 2005.
But I agree with you SB, asUFO’s are perfect for countries to hide and test new secret technology, they must love people saying anything flying around Area 51 etc are UFOs, they are the perfect cover.
The military’s secret technology are allegedly 50 plus years, ahead of what we they are currently using.
Up and mainly down, following Town since 88
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UFO stuff or UAP on 18:29 - Nov 15 with 1242 views
I think its pretty inconceivable that there's not life outside of Earth when you consider the vastness of what's 'out there'. Whether there's life sufficiently advanced to a) be aware of our existence and b) make contact is interesting to ponder. I don't think it's particularly implausible though when you consider how immature we are as a species in the grand scheme of things. The first telescope was only invented 400 years ago and first space travel only 60 odd. Relatively speaking we know naff all.
I'd love to know for sure, its always absolutely fascinated me.
I would say it's inconceivable that life could come about by chance. The complexity of the information necessary for coding for life is mind-blowing. That then begs the question of why life would have been created elsewhere in the Universe.
Of course, if your starting point differs your conclusion is likely to as well.
I think its pretty inconceivable that there's not life outside of Earth when you consider the vastness of what's 'out there'. Whether there's life sufficiently advanced to a) be aware of our existence and b) make contact is interesting to ponder. I don't think it's particularly implausible though when you consider how immature we are as a species in the grand scheme of things. The first telescope was only invented 400 years ago and first space travel only 60 odd. Relatively speaking we know naff all.
I'd love to know for sure, its always absolutely fascinated me.
The other question though it how advanced humanity can get before it is destroyed. It only takes one man to press the button on nuclear weapons, for example.
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UFO stuff or UAP on 19:06 - Nov 15 with 1212 views
I'm not convinced of the "world would go crazy" argument. That originated in the 1940s when things were very different. Science has moved on, most people accept there is probably life in the universe so why would they go crazy?
If anything it has the potential to bring people together and stop some of the bickering. We would after all be more similar to other humans we disagreed with than any alien.
SB
The world would go crazy if they knew humans were not in control of this planet.
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UFO stuff or UAP on 19:20 - Nov 15 with 1199 views
You don't normally do that when you could get jail time though...
If you think the law is a deterrent to lying to congress you are in for quite a shock over the next 4 years…
Besides, that would only be if it could be proven to be lies - in most of these cases there’s little evidence to prove or disprove any claims. If you take the testimony of Grusch for example it’s just all hearsay - at no point does he personally claim to have seen any ‘craft’ or ‘NHI’ - it’s all stuff he’s heard. It probably isn’t a lie - he probably believes it, it’s just that he’s been fed a load of unsubstantiated bollox with no evidence. What the motivations are behind this misinformation is the interesting thing, and can assume it’s to drum up even more military funding.
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UFO stuff or UAP on 19:47 - Nov 15 with 1188 views
The other question though it how advanced humanity can get before it is destroyed. It only takes one man to press the button on nuclear weapons, for example.
Yeah I think that’s often the argument, that life perhaps eats itself before it gets advanced enough to explore too much. Much like we seem intent on on this planet of ours.
I come back to the fact that we generally only consider the prospect of other life in the context of what we know though, which is natural. It could be entirely different, if we open our minds up to consider what it might be like such limitations might not apply at all. There could be far, far more intelligent life than our own out there laughing daily at our what they see as our lame attempts to explore beyond Earth.
Who knows. I would absolutely love to know, it’s fascinating. Imagine just being handed a dossier of perfect information that answered such questions, pictorial evidence, where it is and what it is, is there any unaware of us or aware of us, has it made contact and how, the capabilities of any other life forms. It’s a question I dare say will never be answered by human beings on planet Earth, but one that blows my mind.
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UFO stuff or UAP on 21:04 - Nov 15 with 1149 views
I would say it's inconceivable that life could come about by chance. The complexity of the information necessary for coding for life is mind-blowing. That then begs the question of why life would have been created elsewhere in the Universe.
Of course, if your starting point differs your conclusion is likely to as well.
Life did come about by chance - here. And in the most extreme places on Earth, life is found.
Given the size of the universe (stars for every grain of sand on Earth, and many of those with planets around them - and that's just the stuff we know about)... then no, it's not really inconceivable that life could come about by chance.
I'd say just by the maths involved that the universe is probably teaming with life. It would be more odd if it only happened on just 1 of those trillions upon trillions of planets.
I don't really understand your question of why life would have been created elsewhere in the Universe. Why not?
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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UFO stuff or UAP on 21:53 - Nov 15 with 1125 views
The other question though it how advanced humanity can get before it is destroyed. It only takes one man to press the button on nuclear weapons, for example.
Because we only have a sample size of one we can't really draw these conclusions. You could make a good argument to say that as a civilisation develops it's less likely to destroy itself.
SB
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UFO stuff or UAP on 22:05 - Nov 15 with 1112 views
Life did come about by chance - here. And in the most extreme places on Earth, life is found.
Given the size of the universe (stars for every grain of sand on Earth, and many of those with planets around them - and that's just the stuff we know about)... then no, it's not really inconceivable that life could come about by chance.
I'd say just by the maths involved that the universe is probably teaming with life. It would be more odd if it only happened on just 1 of those trillions upon trillions of planets.
I don't really understand your question of why life would have been created elsewhere in the Universe. Why not?
Dollers, here is a question for you to ponder over your breakfast:
If life requires a designer then who designed the designer?
Life is clearly a biological process that will occur when the right conditions are met. We haven't found them elsewhere and we haven't been able to recreate them but it will happen at some point.
Multi-celluar and eventually intelligent life is possibly much harder to evolve but the numbers of planets and moons is truly impossible to comprehend so it will have happened many times.
~150,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy. ~100,000,000,000 galaxies in the observable universe (which isn't all of it) ~45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the observable universe (assuming 3 planets average per star)
SB
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UFO stuff or UAP on 22:25 - Nov 15 with 1082 views
Dollers, here is a question for you to ponder over your breakfast:
If life requires a designer then who designed the designer?
Life is clearly a biological process that will occur when the right conditions are met. We haven't found them elsewhere and we haven't been able to recreate them but it will happen at some point.
Multi-celluar and eventually intelligent life is possibly much harder to evolve but the numbers of planets and moons is truly impossible to comprehend so it will have happened many times.
~150,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy. ~100,000,000,000 galaxies in the observable universe (which isn't all of it) ~45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the observable universe (assuming 3 planets average per star)
SB
...and don't forget all those moons where there are bound to be other types of Clangers and Soup Dragons, et cetera.
Dollers, here is a question for you to ponder over your breakfast:
If life requires a designer then who designed the designer?
Life is clearly a biological process that will occur when the right conditions are met. We haven't found them elsewhere and we haven't been able to recreate them but it will happen at some point.
Multi-celluar and eventually intelligent life is possibly much harder to evolve but the numbers of planets and moons is truly impossible to comprehend so it will have happened many times.
~150,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy. ~100,000,000,000 galaxies in the observable universe (which isn't all of it) ~45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the observable universe (assuming 3 planets average per star)
SB
Sounds like you're agreeing with me, there's nothing for me to ponder!
I don't know what your first bit is about, I haven't suggested life requires a designer.
EDIT: Just to add, I don't even think you need those astronomical numbers to find life... I suspect we'll find it on Europa or another close-by moon.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2024 22:34]
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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UFO stuff or UAP on 22:38 - Nov 15 with 1062 views
Yeah I think that’s often the argument, that life perhaps eats itself before it gets advanced enough to explore too much. Much like we seem intent on on this planet of ours.
I come back to the fact that we generally only consider the prospect of other life in the context of what we know though, which is natural. It could be entirely different, if we open our minds up to consider what it might be like such limitations might not apply at all. There could be far, far more intelligent life than our own out there laughing daily at our what they see as our lame attempts to explore beyond Earth.
Who knows. I would absolutely love to know, it’s fascinating. Imagine just being handed a dossier of perfect information that answered such questions, pictorial evidence, where it is and what it is, is there any unaware of us or aware of us, has it made contact and how, the capabilities of any other life forms. It’s a question I dare say will never be answered by human beings on planet Earth, but one that blows my mind.
Would we really want a dossier of info that explains everything? From the point of view of most humans loving a mystery I mean. Sometimes the travel is more interesting than the destination.
Re things we don't know - different kinds of time come to mind; I wonder if this is an explanation for how people who "see" or dream things before they happen, are able to do that?
Fascinating thread, not yet had time to read all of it.
It's an interesting subject with a lot of points to consider.
Firstly, it's probably important to note that Knapp isn't impartial, his income is derived from UAP conferences and shows like this. That doesn't mean he's wrong but it's something to consider when evaluating what he says.
Having said all that, something is probably going on. The main possibilities are:
- Aliens - Other creatures from Earth - Military Tech - All of the above - Nothing
So in order:
Aliens
The real issue here is that with our understanding of physics it's very hard to get about in the galaxy. It's not impossible, a species expanding out at a reasonable fraction of the speed of light can colonise most of our galaxy in a few million years if solely devoted to the task but it would be a massive undertaking.
Now of course our understanding of physics is far from complete and there are theoretical methods of going faster than light but they require things which are currently impossible like negative energy. It is however safe to say if "they" could get here then the observed performance of various anomalies would probably be possible with that level of technology. It's certainly within the realms of what we could achieve with known technological pathways within probably a few hundred years.
The real question is why be all secretive? Would we be secretive if we went to another populated planet? Perhaps we would but it's hard to know. If they are aliens then their thoughts and motives would also be alien and hard to assess from a human viewpoint.
Other creatures from Earth
This one is very interesting although problematic. Given most of the interactions nowadays seem to revolve around large bodies of water why couldn't it be an aquatic species from Earth who are just rather annoyed at how we are trashing the planet and the oceans.
We know very little about the deep sea, we are constantly discovering new creatures and we have mapped very little of the seafloor. It's possible something could have evolved in the oceans a long time before us and they are simply further along the path of technological progress.
However, the big problem there is that from our understanding it would be incredibly difficult to develop technological civilisation underwater. Fire was extremely important in our development along with metallurgy and electronics and all are very hard underwater.
This hypothesis would however negate all the issues with time, distance and physics that occur when trying to get around the galaxy.
Military Tech
This is probably the most likely one of the three outlined above. It's certainly believable that some arms of the military wouldn't tell other arms what they are doing and the stuff we get to see is decades out of date.
The F117 and B2 stealth planes, still the pinnacle of military aviation technology both started development in the early 1970's and were operational in the mid 1980's. That's nearly 50 years ago now and if you think at what computers or cars were like then compared to now and extrapolate for aviation projects with huge budgets it's hard to know what kind of stuff they fly around which is 50 years of development ahead of that.
The tic-tac's really don't look like impossible tech if you take the B2 and extrapolate for 50 years of black budget funding. The other common ship which is sighted is the black triangles and they are almost certainly US black projects.
It's pretty much safe to say that the stuff we don't see if probably incredible compared to the stuff we do see.
All of the above
This one is the most fun, imagine if it was all of the above, now that really is a story if it ever becomes public.
Nothing
Hard to see that this is true but many people spend time creating analysis to debunk a lot of these videos so it's worth considering a point.
It's a debate that is going to run and run until governments come out and make a statement, even then there will be people on both sides who won't believe any such statement.
SB
There's other things like weather phenomena
The UK had clearly done quite a lot more research into this than you would realise because there's a full report on this that was in the national archives
Life did come about by chance - here. And in the most extreme places on Earth, life is found.
Given the size of the universe (stars for every grain of sand on Earth, and many of those with planets around them - and that's just the stuff we know about)... then no, it's not really inconceivable that life could come about by chance.
I'd say just by the maths involved that the universe is probably teaming with life. It would be more odd if it only happened on just 1 of those trillions upon trillions of planets.
I don't really understand your question of why life would have been created elsewhere in the Universe. Why not?
You have started with a premiss that it did come about by chance. The odds of a coding system as complex as DNA arranging itself and coding for anything that works are zero let alone for processes as complexes that are vital for complex life.
Of course, if you do not accept the existence of a designer, you are left with it having to have happened by chance.
Nobody ever sees something like a passenger aircraft and says to themselves that's fascinating. I wonder if it was designed or just happened to arrange itself like that. And yet that plane is nothing like as complex as self-replicating living beings.
But if you have to eliminate the possible existence of a designer you have to accept that what we see and understand must have simply appeared by chance. Give it huge numbers of stars, massive periods of time but none of it changes the fact it is clearly not possible.
You have started with a premiss that it did come about by chance. The odds of a coding system as complex as DNA arranging itself and coding for anything that works are zero let alone for processes as complexes that are vital for complex life.
Of course, if you do not accept the existence of a designer, you are left with it having to have happened by chance.
Nobody ever sees something like a passenger aircraft and says to themselves that's fascinating. I wonder if it was designed or just happened to arrange itself like that. And yet that plane is nothing like as complex as self-replicating living beings.
But if you have to eliminate the possible existence of a designer you have to accept that what we see and understand must have simply appeared by chance. Give it huge numbers of stars, massive periods of time but none of it changes the fact it is clearly not possible.
Wow, some incredible leaps there. Where's your evidence that life coming about by chance is impossible? If you can prove that then you have indeed proved the existence of God!
If your God/designer hypothesis is true, as Stokie said: who or what created the designer? Surely a designer who designed all this couldn't themselves come about by chance, following your logic?
Your passenger aircraft analogy is a bit silly. We all know planes are designed, we don't know how life came about. Just because one was designed and is complex doesn't mean the other must've also been designed as it's more complex. There's just no relation between the two.
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