| Tired 15:15 - Dec 9 with 2250 views | textbackup |
A word I keep reading about how certain players look.
We’ve played 16 games in 15 weeks (105 days) equates to a game every 6.5 days.
Went out of the league cup at earliest stage, so haven’t had those extra games to factor in.
The physical demands of the PL are obviously huge… but we aren’t flat out playing every 3/4 days.
Not even sure the point I’m trying to make or get to, but should our players seem so tired and we aren’t even at the half way point of the season? |  |
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| Tired on 15:21 - Dec 9 with 2203 views | _clive_baker_ |
None of that August schedule is particularly relevant now though is it?
We've just played 3 games in 8 days with a thin squad. |  | | |
| Tired on 15:22 - Dec 9 with 2184 views | portmanking |
| Tired on 15:21 - Dec 9 by _clive_baker_ |
None of that August schedule is particularly relevant now though is it?
We've just played 3 games in 8 days with a thin squad. |
Let's not forget how young certain areas of our team are too. Many of whom are playing at the level for the first time. |  | | |
| Tired on 15:23 - Dec 9 with 2181 views | homer_123 |
I'm sure I've heard that Sammy S has found the step up unreal.
I could be wrong but I am sure I have read, heard or been told that he (along with other players) have found it physically exhausting. The step up in fitness levels and the fact teams rarely, if ever, drop off during a game is so far removed from the Championship.
B'mouth, I think, are the team that covers more ground that anyone else.
We are indeed playing less games but the intensity, pace and fitness needed at this level is something else.
I am sure that SS was literally struggling to get out of bed - it's going to take players (especially those who have never played at this level) a while to adjust.
Interestingly, physical fitness plays a huge part in decision making. Making decisions when you are shattered is far more likely to end up a poor decision. [Post edited 9 Dec 2024 15:24]
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| Tired on 15:34 - Dec 9 with 2119 views | flykickingbybgunn |
Having seen the top level for 50 odd years it seems to me that the fitness level required now is far higher than that needed in the 60's-90's. Even given that the ball is lighter and the pitches far less heavy.
There was of course pressure on players to perform then but that too seems greater now. Perhaps that is from the intense analysis given to everymove on the pitch. |  | | |
| Tired on 15:38 - Dec 9 with 2093 views | bsw72 |
There was actually a study in 2015 entitled "A comparison of physical and technical match performance of a team competing in the English championship league and then the English premier league following promotion".
The conclusion back then was that the increase in physical demand is not as great as was initially thought, but the technical / skills gap is very significant.
However that was 9 years ago, so I imagine things have changed a little.
My point - who knows  |  | | |
| Tired on 15:48 - Dec 9 with 2029 views | homer_123 |
| Tired on 15:38 - Dec 9 by bsw72 |
There was actually a study in 2015 entitled "A comparison of physical and technical match performance of a team competing in the English championship league and then the English premier league following promotion".
The conclusion back then was that the increase in physical demand is not as great as was initially thought, but the technical / skills gap is very significant.
However that was 9 years ago, so I imagine things have changed a little.
My point - who knows |
Looking at a range of data points - there is more of a difference now.
Prem seems to average between 10km and 12km per match
Champ seems to average between 8km and 10km
Top end of the Champ to the Prem, no difference but the difference between the bottom of the Champ and top of the Prem is remarkable.
Now average that over a season and even though there are more games in the Champ it is possible that players will cover more distance in the Prem during less games.
That's before you factor in the intensity. The Prem matches don't drop off from a physicallity perspective like Championship games can do. I can't find any studies on this side of things - though it maybe subjective anyway.
Be interesting to know of the distance covered, how intense the sprints are, length of sprints, energy expended that kind of thing. | |
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| Tired on 15:51 - Dec 9 with 1999 views | textbackup |
| Tired on 15:23 - Dec 9 by homer_123 |
I'm sure I've heard that Sammy S has found the step up unreal.
I could be wrong but I am sure I have read, heard or been told that he (along with other players) have found it physically exhausting. The step up in fitness levels and the fact teams rarely, if ever, drop off during a game is so far removed from the Championship.
B'mouth, I think, are the team that covers more ground that anyone else.
We are indeed playing less games but the intensity, pace and fitness needed at this level is something else.
I am sure that SS was literally struggling to get out of bed - it's going to take players (especially those who have never played at this level) a while to adjust.
Interestingly, physical fitness plays a huge part in decision making. Making decisions when you are shattered is far more likely to end up a poor decision. [Post edited 9 Dec 2024 15:24]
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We saw that yesterday, Delap had a sprint the ball under control, then made a wild pass to Leif and Bournemouth went on the attack. Was like his body and brain had just left one another.
Also, think Joe mentioned before that Leif had commented on the leg fatigue being a 48hr thing as opposed to 24hrs in the champ | |
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| Tired on 15:57 - Dec 9 with 1943 views | gainsboroughblue |
| Tired on 15:51 - Dec 9 by textbackup |
We saw that yesterday, Delap had a sprint the ball under control, then made a wild pass to Leif and Bournemouth went on the attack. Was like his body and brain had just left one another.
Also, think Joe mentioned before that Leif had commented on the leg fatigue being a 48hr thing as opposed to 24hrs in the champ |
Years ago, players would enjoy the step up to the Premier League because it often meant more time on the ball, games being played at a slower pace etc and players who weren't overly physical could thrive outside of the hurly burly of divisions two, three and four.
That's gone completely out of the window now with the fitness levels, the strength, pace and overall press. It's utterly insane standards required. Six weeks of a transfer window to get up to speed and bridge essentially two divisions worth of levels is almost unfair. [Post edited 9 Dec 2024 15:57]
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| Tired on 16:12 - Dec 9 with 1862 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Tired on 15:48 - Dec 9 by homer_123 |
Looking at a range of data points - there is more of a difference now.
Prem seems to average between 10km and 12km per match
Champ seems to average between 8km and 10km
Top end of the Champ to the Prem, no difference but the difference between the bottom of the Champ and top of the Prem is remarkable.
Now average that over a season and even though there are more games in the Champ it is possible that players will cover more distance in the Prem during less games.
That's before you factor in the intensity. The Prem matches don't drop off from a physicallity perspective like Championship games can do. I can't find any studies on this side of things - though it maybe subjective anyway.
Be interesting to know of the distance covered, how intense the sprints are, length of sprints, energy expended that kind of thing. |
So the promoted teams dont run any further then.
But agreed, the intensity will make a difference. |  |
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| Tired on 16:14 - Dec 9 with 1830 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| Tired on 15:57 - Dec 9 by gainsboroughblue |
Years ago, players would enjoy the step up to the Premier League because it often meant more time on the ball, games being played at a slower pace etc and players who weren't overly physical could thrive outside of the hurly burly of divisions two, three and four.
That's gone completely out of the window now with the fitness levels, the strength, pace and overall press. It's utterly insane standards required. Six weeks of a transfer window to get up to speed and bridge essentially two divisions worth of levels is almost unfair. [Post edited 9 Dec 2024 15:57]
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I think the step up really hit me in the face when we played Fulham.
Bassey, Traoré and Iwobi are absolute units and really quick. When I look at players like Jack Clarke, Chaplin and Omari, it's easy to see how some of our players are not a match to many Premier League players' physicality.
Omari is learning fast, though, and his body positioning and movement is excellent and gets him out of a lot of issues, but J. Clarke needs to beef up a bit, or wise up a bit before he is anywhere near ready for a full 90 minutes. If Delap looks wrecked after 60, then I shudder to think what it would do to JC. [Post edited 9 Dec 2024 16:18]
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| Tired on 17:38 - Dec 9 with 1627 views | Sharkey |
When the manager arrived, there was a lot of comment that training sessions were longer and more intense than anything the players had ever experienced. This was in L1, of course, but my thought at the time was if working harder and longer is what makes you better, why isn't everyone doing it? Presumably it does come at a cost. It would be interesting to know if training sessions are longer and more intense than, say, Bournemouth's. |  | | |
| Tired on 17:51 - Dec 9 with 1573 views | textbackup |
| Tired on 17:38 - Dec 9 by Sharkey |
When the manager arrived, there was a lot of comment that training sessions were longer and more intense than anything the players had ever experienced. This was in L1, of course, but my thought at the time was if working harder and longer is what makes you better, why isn't everyone doing it? Presumably it does come at a cost. It would be interesting to know if training sessions are longer and more intense than, say, Bournemouth's. |
You’d think they manage the workload in busier periods.
I mean I’m no sports scientist so purely guess work, having them run themselves into the ground 2/3 times a week at training and expecting maximum output on game day seems a stretch to me… but on the flip side how can we expect them to peak if they are regularly pushed to being at peak. | |
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| Tired on 18:04 - Dec 9 with 1519 views | dissboy2 |
| Tired on 15:48 - Dec 9 by homer_123 |
Looking at a range of data points - there is more of a difference now.
Prem seems to average between 10km and 12km per match
Champ seems to average between 8km and 10km
Top end of the Champ to the Prem, no difference but the difference between the bottom of the Champ and top of the Prem is remarkable.
Now average that over a season and even though there are more games in the Champ it is possible that players will cover more distance in the Prem during less games.
That's before you factor in the intensity. The Prem matches don't drop off from a physicallity perspective like Championship games can do. I can't find any studies on this side of things - though it maybe subjective anyway.
Be interesting to know of the distance covered, how intense the sprints are, length of sprints, energy expended that kind of thing. |
true but in the prem there have also been regular long breaks for the internationals in this half of the season, so some longer recovery time was built in for a lot of of our players [Post edited 9 Dec 2024 18:05]
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| Tired on 18:19 - Dec 9 with 1469 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
This question demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the current team training regime, and what is needed to compete in the EPL.
You make it sound as if the only exertion from the players is the 90 minutes for the game. They currently train at very high intensity for many days during the week, and for very long hours. This is why you need a squad, and a rotation (either by game, or during the game, with fewer players playing 90 mins).
There are far too many armchair coaches on the forum that don't really get the modern day game ;-) | | | |
| Tired on 18:21 - Dec 9 with 1455 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Tired on 18:04 - Dec 9 by dissboy2 |
true but in the prem there have also been regular long breaks for the internationals in this half of the season, so some longer recovery time was built in for a lot of of our players [Post edited 9 Dec 2024 18:05]
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Training does NOT stop during the international breaks, and training will in general be much more high intensity than the games themselves at times. | | | |
| Tired on 18:44 - Dec 9 with 1382 views | dissboy2 |
| Tired on 18:21 - Dec 9 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Training does NOT stop during the international breaks, and training will in general be much more high intensity than the games themselves at times. |
out of interest, are you a coach?
seems crazy to train players at such high intensity that they dont get enough recovery time to be at 100% for actual games | | | |
| Tired on 19:06 - Dec 9 with 1316 views | Sharkey |
| Tired on 18:19 - Dec 9 by SuffolkPunchFC |
This question demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the current team training regime, and what is needed to compete in the EPL.
You make it sound as if the only exertion from the players is the 90 minutes for the game. They currently train at very high intensity for many days during the week, and for very long hours. This is why you need a squad, and a rotation (either by game, or during the game, with fewer players playing 90 mins).
There are far too many armchair coaches on the forum that don't really get the modern day game ;-) |
Town of course have a slightly smaller squad than most, even before injuries, as most clubs have more than one U21 in the first team ‘group’, to use the modern term. | | | |
| Tired on 19:08 - Dec 9 with 1308 views | FrimleyBlue |
Think in prem games your recovery time in game is massively reduced to other leagues. That is just a guess on my part, but it's relentless all over the pitch. You try to catch a breather and someone's in on goal. |  |
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| Tired on 21:20 - Dec 9 with 1134 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| Tired on 15:23 - Dec 9 by homer_123 |
I'm sure I've heard that Sammy S has found the step up unreal.
I could be wrong but I am sure I have read, heard or been told that he (along with other players) have found it physically exhausting. The step up in fitness levels and the fact teams rarely, if ever, drop off during a game is so far removed from the Championship.
B'mouth, I think, are the team that covers more ground that anyone else.
We are indeed playing less games but the intensity, pace and fitness needed at this level is something else.
I am sure that SS was literally struggling to get out of bed - it's going to take players (especially those who have never played at this level) a while to adjust.
Interestingly, physical fitness plays a huge part in decision making. Making decisions when you are shattered is far more likely to end up a poor decision. [Post edited 9 Dec 2024 15:24]
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If it's true, this is really insightful to read.
The athleticism gap really is massive, the pace of the game is like double speed and then you realise that every player is an absolute unit.
Its just gonna take time to adjust and unfortunately we don't have a lot of it. |  |
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| Tired on 22:09 - Dec 9 with 1069 views | textbackup |
| Tired on 18:19 - Dec 9 by SuffolkPunchFC |
This question demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the current team training regime, and what is needed to compete in the EPL.
You make it sound as if the only exertion from the players is the 90 minutes for the game. They currently train at very high intensity for many days during the week, and for very long hours. This is why you need a squad, and a rotation (either by game, or during the game, with fewer players playing 90 mins).
There are far too many armchair coaches on the forum that don't really get the modern day game ;-) |
You must have missed the part where I said I’m not sure what point I’m trying to make… or the post above where I said about training being full on to be prepared.
But I’ll let it slide this once. | |
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