| PLAN B 09:13 - Dec 22 with 3063 views | sotd78 |
I really rate KM. Best coach we've had since Joe Royle. But... really it should be possible this season with so few games and so much coaching time to have two formations that can be tinkered with. The wonderful 4231 is fine if we can really compete as it brings goals. But we also need a better 541 or 5311 against the best teams. We got really bossed today. Unable to stay tight for the first half. Against the top teams we need to at least reach half time level. Sort of like we managed versus Liverpool until they went up a gear. That all sadly is a criticism of KM. |  |
| Blue shirts/white shorts - sotd78 |
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| PLAN B on 09:18 - Dec 22 with 3005 views | BABLUE |
Muric
Johnson, Greaves, Burgess, O’Shea, Davis
Phillips, Taylor & Cajuste
Hutchinson
Delap
Team V Arsenal |  | | |
| PLAN B on 09:24 - Dec 22 with 2949 views | FrimleyBlue |
| PLAN B on 09:18 - Dec 22 by BABLUE |
Muric
Johnson, Greaves, Burgess, O’Shea, Davis
Phillips, Taylor & Cajuste
Hutchinson
Delap
Team V Arsenal |
Muric
Oshea
Wolfenden
Greaves
Burgess
Davis
Johnson
Phillips
Cajuste
Szmodics
Delap
It will probably be
Muric
Clarke
Oshea
Burgess
Davis
Taylor
Cajuste
Burns
Chappers
Hutchinson
Delap |  |
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| PLAN B on 09:25 - Dec 22 with 2958 views | cressi |
| PLAN B on 09:18 - Dec 22 by BABLUE |
Muric
Johnson, Greaves, Burgess, O’Shea, Davis
Phillips, Taylor & Cajuste
Hutchinson
Delap
Team V Arsenal |
Johnson or Clarke not good enough definitely need 3 centre backs playing and sure up the midfield, |  | | |
| PLAN B on 09:57 - Dec 22 with 2861 views | Guthrum |
But what is this hypothetical Plan B, how does it work and who are the personnel to carry it out? What are the criteria for sending out the Plan B team instead of the Plan A one? Which matches are we sacrificing to be draws at best?
Will the Plan B work in any case? Can we cope with 90+ minutes of unrelenting pressure from a top team without any real possibility of forcing them back or threatening their goal? |  |
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| PLAN B on 10:01 - Dec 22 with 2812 views | FrimleyBlue |
| PLAN B on 09:57 - Dec 22 by Guthrum |
But what is this hypothetical Plan B, how does it work and who are the personnel to carry it out? What are the criteria for sending out the Plan B team instead of the Plan A one? Which matches are we sacrificing to be draws at best?
Will the Plan B work in any case? Can we cope with 90+ minutes of unrelenting pressure from a top team without any real possibility of forcing them back or threatening their goal? |
Plan B should be and always be the plan A that we played against spurs. It shouldn't even be the plan B it should become plan A.
Plan B then becomes your plan a if and when you can actually play it well with better players otherwise you're just onto hanging on and hoping. | |
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| PLAN B on 10:14 - Dec 22 with 2748 views | Guthrum |
| PLAN B on 10:01 - Dec 22 by FrimleyBlue |
Plan B should be and always be the plan A that we played against spurs. It shouldn't even be the plan B it should become plan A.
Plan B then becomes your plan a if and when you can actually play it well with better players otherwise you're just onto hanging on and hoping. |
What did we actually do differently against Spurs? Excluding injury/suspension absences (most notably Tuanzebe), the only change to yesterday was playing Johnson in the Burns role, a slight alteration of personnel more than structure.
That and not having a gigantic, fast and athletic press aggressively in our faces for most of the game. It's that we can't cope with, getting no time on the ball. Hutchinson being ganged up on and marked out of the game. No outlets when our players are trying to pass. A packed defence when we do get up the other end, because we can't get there as fast as usual. | |
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| PLAN B on 10:21 - Dec 22 with 2709 views | Pinewoodblue |
| PLAN B on 09:57 - Dec 22 by Guthrum |
But what is this hypothetical Plan B, how does it work and who are the personnel to carry it out? What are the criteria for sending out the Plan B team instead of the Plan A one? Which matches are we sacrificing to be draws at best?
Will the Plan B work in any case? Can we cope with 90+ minutes of unrelenting pressure from a top team without any real possibility of forcing them back or threatening their goal? |
We have, to quote KMc, starters and finishers.
We need a more cautious starting eleven/ approach. |  |
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| PLAN B on 10:39 - Dec 22 with 2655 views | OldFart71 |
It needs to be admitted, we just ain't good enough in several positions. Even with all injured players back we are still short of players to come on after 60 minutes and do the same job. That's no criticism it's a fact. Between finishing in the Championship and starting life in the Premier League about a dozen went out and the same came in. Some of those are injured and two or three haven't proved yet to be good enough. They may in time, but then it will possibly be too late. January will present KM and MA with a serious challenge. Do they go for for it and spend many more millions or do they have an eye on whether we will survive. Currently I don't see us getting more than three points between now and the middle of January. That's not me being pessimistic, it's me being logical. | | | |
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| PLAN B on 10:52 - Dec 22 with 2591 views | FrimleyBlue |
| PLAN B on 10:14 - Dec 22 by Guthrum |
What did we actually do differently against Spurs? Excluding injury/suspension absences (most notably Tuanzebe), the only change to yesterday was playing Johnson in the Burns role, a slight alteration of personnel more than structure.
That and not having a gigantic, fast and athletic press aggressively in our faces for most of the game. It's that we can't cope with, getting no time on the ball. Hutchinson being ganged up on and marked out of the game. No outlets when our players are trying to pass. A packed defence when we do get up the other end, because we can't get there as fast as usual. |
It was incredibly evident how different we played v spurs than any other fixture. From the backline and midfield off the ball to the speed of which we broke and how our players spread out when we had the ball. Hutchinson became a right side striker with Sammy doing the same left, neither were far side, delap dropped deep which gave hutch cover and a quick pass option when he couldn't turn a man. But there was always a man available and our players didn't stop moving and making space. The complete opposite to yesterday when we gradually walked around the pitch and wondered why Newcastle just stood up our backsides and pushed us off the ball.
Off the ball we had a flat back 5. Really evident Its organisation and flatness with defensive quality across the backline. Clarke H is neither quality in defence nor quality in attack so not entirely sure why we keep persevering with it when it just doesn't work. And burns hasn't got the prem engine to get up and down like he was able to in league 1.
That spurs system was superb in its set up and execution. | |
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| PLAN B on 11:05 - Dec 22 with 2529 views | WestSussexBlue |
| PLAN B on 09:18 - Dec 22 by BABLUE |
Muric
Johnson, Greaves, Burgess, O’Shea, Davis
Phillips, Taylor & Cajuste
Hutchinson
Delap
Team V Arsenal |
Walton needs his opportunity to show what he can do. | | | |
| PLAN B on 11:29 - Dec 22 with 2448 views | BLUEBEAT |
| PLAN B on 09:24 - Dec 22 by FrimleyBlue |
Muric
Oshea
Wolfenden
Greaves
Burgess
Davis
Johnson
Phillips
Cajuste
Szmodics
Delap
It will probably be
Muric
Clarke
Oshea
Burgess
Davis
Taylor
Cajuste
Burns
Chappers
Hutchinson
Delap |
yes and yes
(sigh) |  |
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| PLAN B on 11:42 - Dec 22 with 2338 views | mrfixit426 |
Oh dear. We're back to calling for the infamous Plan B. Didn't we do this in League 1 when things weren't going so well over the Christmas period?
Plan A and Plan B don't really exist in modern football. Crikey. |  | | |
| PLAN B on 11:43 - Dec 22 with 2314 views | pointofblue |
| PLAN B on 09:24 - Dec 22 by FrimleyBlue |
Muric
Oshea
Wolfenden
Greaves
Burgess
Davis
Johnson
Phillips
Cajuste
Szmodics
Delap
It will probably be
Muric
Clarke
Oshea
Burgess
Davis
Taylor
Cajuste
Burns
Chappers
Hutchinson
Delap |
Agree with the idea but not the personnel. O'Shea wouldn't offer us enough going forward at RWB and that's what we'd need from the formation. It should be Johnson. O'Shea moves inside instead of Woolfenden, Burgess goes to the centre and Greaves, with a degree of extra pace, LCB to support Davis. Put Taylor in central midfield alongside Phillips and Cajuste.
Muric over Walton? The former should be on very shaky ground right now. | |
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| PLAN B on 11:46 - Dec 22 with 2281 views | bournemouthblue |
As I see it, there's two types of sides we particularly struggle with
Direct physical sides who stay compact and cause a lot of problems aerially, looking to pick you off on breaks etc
And mobile sides who are pacey on the break and particularly down the flanks, something Newcastle had in abundance
Our own formation is designed to overload sides down the flanks itself so we often get caught out when Davis or Clarke are pushed up the pitch
Newcastle were a far better version of Leeds who we also couldn't lay a glove on at Elland Road where Summerville and James ripped us a new one
For me McKenna needs an alternative formation for sides like this to mitigate those strength down the wings
A 541 or 5311 etc, might be the solution, if you wanted to go ultra cautious you could go for Townsend the left sided of a 5 and have Davis as your left winger, he then would add extra cover down the left and wouldn't have to worry about being caught out when he was pushed up. They could rotate at times and drop back into that space on overlaps.
In a 541, you can play that overlapping centre back role too, if you wanted an extra man joining the attacks at times, whether that's Clarke maybe, Wolfenden or Johnson, not sure we have the same equivalent on the left
Greaves could fit into a five to cover Burgess, Wolfy the other side along with Clarke maybe [Post edited 22 Dec 2024 11:49]
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| PLAN B on 11:58 - Dec 22 with 2187 views | cressi |
| PLAN B on 10:52 - Dec 22 by FrimleyBlue |
It was incredibly evident how different we played v spurs than any other fixture. From the backline and midfield off the ball to the speed of which we broke and how our players spread out when we had the ball. Hutchinson became a right side striker with Sammy doing the same left, neither were far side, delap dropped deep which gave hutch cover and a quick pass option when he couldn't turn a man. But there was always a man available and our players didn't stop moving and making space. The complete opposite to yesterday when we gradually walked around the pitch and wondered why Newcastle just stood up our backsides and pushed us off the ball.
Off the ball we had a flat back 5. Really evident Its organisation and flatness with defensive quality across the backline. Clarke H is neither quality in defence nor quality in attack so not entirely sure why we keep persevering with it when it just doesn't work. And burns hasn't got the prem engine to get up and down like he was able to in league 1.
That spurs system was superb in its set up and execution. |
Both games we won we have had a bit of fortune although some draws we could have won.
Spurs we should have been one down in in the first few minutes when Johnson put past the post then muric poor pass luckily they played a crab ball and we broke and went two up. At wolves we rode our luck at one each people need to be realistic at present we are not good enough and January recruitment is vital to have any chance. | | | |
| PLAN B on 12:22 - Dec 22 with 2085 views | braveblue |
We have had unheard of success in the past few years with this system. To abandon it because a few players are not good enough for the Pl would be madness. We are years ahead of the plan. If we go down then regroup and come back stronger. But don’t lose the system that has brought us success. | | | |
| PLAN B on 12:33 - Dec 22 with 2039 views | Nutkins_Return |
This is 20 year old thinking though. As in you have a binary Plan A and a Plan B in terms of formation. We don't have a set formation per se. We do have a game plan. Our formation changes in and out of possession and McKenna tweaks what we are doing during a game. We don't go out and say we're playing 4-3-3 anymore. It's much much more complex and it's built now been built over 2 years.
McKenna tweaks the gameplan for each opposition. So it's not Plan A. It's plan for the team we are playing. Does he get it right Everytime. No. Does it mean he's got it wrong when we lose. Not necessarily.
We regularly have 5-6 players we had from league one in our starting line ups. McKenna and the team against any objective reasoning are doing a good job. This won't be the first game we lose by 3 or 4 this season but there isn't a fix that says we switch to a plan B and that changes things. Newcastle on a really good day beat us on a really good day. That's the reality. And we didn't have a good day ourselves | |
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| PLAN B on 14:47 - Dec 22 with 1863 views | bournemouthblue |
| PLAN B on 12:22 - Dec 22 by braveblue |
We have had unheard of success in the past few years with this system. To abandon it because a few players are not good enough for the Pl would be madness. We are years ahead of the plan. If we go down then regroup and come back stronger. But don’t lose the system that has brought us success. |
If McKenna goes, the system may go also but I suspect we will hire someone with similar principles and it's a modern system people tend to use | |
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| PLAN B on 19:04 - Dec 27 with 1278 views | FrimleyBlue |
| PLAN B on 09:24 - Dec 22 by FrimleyBlue |
Muric
Oshea
Wolfenden
Greaves
Burgess
Davis
Johnson
Phillips
Cajuste
Szmodics
Delap
It will probably be
Muric
Clarke
Oshea
Burgess
Davis
Taylor
Cajuste
Burns
Chappers
Hutchinson
Delap |
Ooo so close | |
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| PLAN B on 19:26 - Dec 27 with 1031 views | HairBearBunch |
Best coach since Joe Royle ?? I clearly remember the North Stand's vocal opinion when we'd heard of his appointment, and that was before he'd even started. |  | | |
| PLAN B on 19:29 - Dec 27 with 985 views | Vic |
| PLAN B on 09:24 - Dec 22 by FrimleyBlue |
Muric
Oshea
Wolfenden
Greaves
Burgess
Davis
Johnson
Phillips
Cajuste
Szmodics
Delap
It will probably be
Muric
Clarke
Oshea
Burgess
Davis
Taylor
Cajuste
Burns
Chappers
Hutchinson
Delap |
Very nearly Frimmers |  |
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