| The President of Peace… on 09:25 - Jan 8 with 1466 views | Zapers |
You have to speculate to accumulate  |  | |  |
| The President of Peace… on 09:31 - Jan 8 with 1445 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The President of Peace… on 08:34 - Jan 8 by positivity |
how many billion would you need to find to get up to 5% gdp? what would you cut to achieve it?
big cuts to pensions? massively raise taxes? cut the education budget? massively raise business taxes? swingeing cuts to the nhs? huge rises in fuel/alcohol/cigarette/vape duty?
it's all a bit pie in the sky |
I would happily pay substantially higher amounts of tax to reach 5% of GDP, no problem.
Not sure NHS is particularly underfunded, it might be a bit sh1t but the waste is off the scale.
.... Oh, and for those who wet the bed, the foreign aid comment was tongue in cheek. |  |
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| The President of Peace… on 09:40 - Jan 8 with 1381 views | positivity |
| The President of Peace… on 09:31 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
I would happily pay substantially higher amounts of tax to reach 5% of GDP, no problem.
Not sure NHS is particularly underfunded, it might be a bit sh1t but the waste is off the scale.
.... Oh, and for those who wet the bed, the foreign aid comment was tongue in cheek. |
how much? double your tax? 60%? 80%? 90%?
you may be in a tiny minority i'm afraid, most clutch their pearls at the slightest whiff of a rise | |
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| The President of Peace… on 09:42 - Jan 8 with 1373 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| The President of Peace… on 09:31 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
I would happily pay substantially higher amounts of tax to reach 5% of GDP, no problem.
Not sure NHS is particularly underfunded, it might be a bit sh1t but the waste is off the scale.
.... Oh, and for those who wet the bed, the foreign aid comment was tongue in cheek. |
As the husband of someone that has been a NHS nurse for 32 years, I can assure you that it is underfunded, particularly comparatively.
You’re right about waste, of course it’s extreme but there is an also a problem with ‘inflated invoicing’, where the second suppliers or contractors see ‘NHS’ the invoice doubles.
I work in a University and thee same happens there. We are currently moving campus, to a campus in the same town, about a mile away, we’ve just had a quote to move two pieces of machinery from one campus to the other - £250k |  |
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| The President of Peace… on 09:47 - Jan 8 with 1343 views | DJR |
| The President of Peace… on 09:31 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
I would happily pay substantially higher amounts of tax to reach 5% of GDP, no problem.
Not sure NHS is particularly underfunded, it might be a bit sh1t but the waste is off the scale.
.... Oh, and for those who wet the bed, the foreign aid comment was tongue in cheek. |
We could spend as much as we like on defence but a major problem these days is that we struggle to recruit and retain the manpower. [Post edited 8 Jan 9:47]
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| The President of Peace… on 09:48 - Jan 8 with 1335 views | Axeldalai_lama |
Just done a few calculations and 5% of GDP would be £128 billion up from £53 billion. A year. £75 billion more to be found a year. Hopefully I haven't got that too far wrong.
Again, a little googling and that's more than, for example, the tax raised from tobacco and alcohol, fuel duty and business rates combined.
Would take more than a bit of tinkering to achieve. |  | | |
| The President of Peace… on 09:50 - Jan 8 with 1320 views | positivity |
| The President of Peace… on 09:47 - Jan 8 by DJR |
We could spend as much as we like on defence but a major problem these days is that we struggle to recruit and retain the manpower. [Post edited 8 Jan 9:47]
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we'd have to massively increase imigration i suppose? | |
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| The President of Peace… on 09:50 - Jan 8 with 1313 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The President of Peace… on 09:42 - Jan 8 by Cheltenham_Blue |
As the husband of someone that has been a NHS nurse for 32 years, I can assure you that it is underfunded, particularly comparatively.
You’re right about waste, of course it’s extreme but there is an also a problem with ‘inflated invoicing’, where the second suppliers or contractors see ‘NHS’ the invoice doubles.
I work in a University and thee same happens there. We are currently moving campus, to a campus in the same town, about a mile away, we’ve just had a quote to move two pieces of machinery from one campus to the other - £250k |
Unless you know exactly how much waste there is in The NHS it is impossible for you to say that it is underfunded. | |
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| The President of Peace… on 09:52 - Jan 8 with 1299 views | positivity |
| The President of Peace… on 09:42 - Jan 8 by Cheltenham_Blue |
As the husband of someone that has been a NHS nurse for 32 years, I can assure you that it is underfunded, particularly comparatively.
You’re right about waste, of course it’s extreme but there is an also a problem with ‘inflated invoicing’, where the second suppliers or contractors see ‘NHS’ the invoice doubles.
I work in a University and thee same happens there. We are currently moving campus, to a campus in the same town, about a mile away, we’ve just had a quote to move two pieces of machinery from one campus to the other - £250k |
absolutely, any waste that remains is largely paying agency staff as we've spent 14 years failing to recruit and retain our own doctors and nurses.
to cut this waste needs upfront investment, not further short-sighted cuts | |
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| The President of Peace… on 09:55 - Jan 8 with 1292 views | lowhouseblue |
| The President of Peace… on 09:50 - Jan 8 by positivity |
we'd have to massively increase imigration i suppose? |
no. you could keep the part of net migration which is involves people coming to work (a relatively small proportion of the almost 3 million net total in the past 4 years) while still reducing the much larger proportion of net migration which has been for reasons other than work. if the labour market is what matters, you could also shift back to higher skill migrants (since brexit there has been a big shift to lower skilled migrants) and focus migration on key need areas such as the nhs and care (currently migration for the purpose of working in the nhs and care is a very small proportion of the total). i do know you were making a joke by the way! |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The President of Peace… on 10:04 - Jan 8 with 1255 views | positivity |
| The President of Peace… on 09:50 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
Unless you know exactly how much waste there is in The NHS it is impossible for you to say that it is underfunded. |
but to decrease waste in the future (especially agency waste, buildings waste etc), you need to invest now.
you need more funding in the short term | |
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| The President of Peace… on 10:06 - Jan 8 with 1237 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| The President of Peace… on 09:50 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
Unless you know exactly how much waste there is in The NHS it is impossible for you to say that it is underfunded. |
And therefore, by definition, impossible for you to say that its not underfunded.
You can't have it both ways mate. | |
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| The President of Peace… on 10:08 - Jan 8 with 1224 views | bluester |
| The President of Peace… on 09:52 - Jan 8 by positivity |
absolutely, any waste that remains is largely paying agency staff as we've spent 14 years failing to recruit and retain our own doctors and nurses.
to cut this waste needs upfront investment, not further short-sighted cuts |
There's that and the outsourcing of services to the private sector and on top of that the ridiculous PFI contracts. | | | |
| The President of Peace… on 10:10 - Jan 8 with 1202 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The President of Peace… on 10:04 - Jan 8 by positivity |
but to decrease waste in the future (especially agency waste, buildings waste etc), you need to invest now.
you need more funding in the short term |
Not against some initial investment but having read a handful of your posts I'm not sure you are any great authority on economics. | |
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| The President of Peace… on 10:15 - Jan 8 with 1170 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The President of Peace… on 10:06 - Jan 8 by Cheltenham_Blue |
And therefore, by definition, impossible for you to say that its not underfunded.
You can't have it both ways mate. |
Mate? Sorry but I didn't know that we had met, unless of course you are being rude.
And in anycase, I didn't say that The NHS wasn't underfunded, I don't know, it would need detailed research into areas that the likes of you and me don't have access to.
I said "Not sure NHS is particularly underfunded" | |
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| The President of Peace… on 10:16 - Jan 8 with 1163 views | positivity |
| The President of Peace… on 10:10 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
Not against some initial investment but having read a handful of your posts I'm not sure you are any great authority on economics. |
again, i'm not sure you're in the majority in being happy to pay extra tax for the up-front investment in the nhs, but i'm with you.
as for the economics authority, i'm just glad you're happy to pay the extra £75 billion in taxes to get us to 5% of gdp from your own personal magic money tree. very generous of you! | |
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| The President of Peace… on 10:30 - Jan 8 with 1129 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| The President of Peace… on 10:15 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
Mate? Sorry but I didn't know that we had met, unless of course you are being rude.
And in anycase, I didn't say that The NHS wasn't underfunded, I don't know, it would need detailed research into areas that the likes of you and me don't have access to.
I said "Not sure NHS is particularly underfunded" |
"Mate? Sorry but I didn't know that we had met, unless of course you are being rude"
Have a day off Lucan, stop looking for rows that aren't even there. | |
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| The President of Peace… on 10:34 - Jan 8 with 1122 views | eireblue |
| The President of Peace… on 10:15 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
Mate? Sorry but I didn't know that we had met, unless of course you are being rude.
And in anycase, I didn't say that The NHS wasn't underfunded, I don't know, it would need detailed research into areas that the likes of you and me don't have access to.
I said "Not sure NHS is particularly underfunded" |
You can do comparisons based on amount of money spent per capita, and the outcomes, between different countries to get a feel for if enough is spent.
And you can also get a feel for if a system is comparatively over/under performing based on the spending.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthca |  | | |
| The President of Peace… on 10:43 - Jan 8 with 1086 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The President of Peace… on 10:16 - Jan 8 by positivity |
again, i'm not sure you're in the majority in being happy to pay extra tax for the up-front investment in the nhs, but i'm with you.
as for the economics authority, i'm just glad you're happy to pay the extra £75 billion in taxes to get us to 5% of gdp from your own personal magic money tree. very generous of you! |
Re defence - I'm not denying the figures but I can't challenge them as internet is sketchy where I am and Google is banned.
However - as we were talking about the NHS as well and there are a few things just off the top of my head which make me think NHS is severely m is managed.
Procurement - The procurement (ditto the armed forces) is criminal.
Building work costs - Gravy train criminal
Agency staff - both of the above.
Now then, here's as novel idea to free up bed spaces and save a literal fortune.
...Hospitals are clogged up with people who are recovering in order to go home. They are not "ill" they are just on the mend but need a bit of time. This doesn't include elderly bed blockers.
Build a new ward on every hospital in the land where the recovering people can go - without laying in a bed surrounded by thousands upon thousands of pounds worth of equipment that they don't need [Post edited 8 Jan 10:45]
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| The President of Peace… on 10:58 - Jan 8 with 1024 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The President of Peace… on 10:43 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
Re defence - I'm not denying the figures but I can't challenge them as internet is sketchy where I am and Google is banned.
However - as we were talking about the NHS as well and there are a few things just off the top of my head which make me think NHS is severely m is managed.
Procurement - The procurement (ditto the armed forces) is criminal.
Building work costs - Gravy train criminal
Agency staff - both of the above.
Now then, here's as novel idea to free up bed spaces and save a literal fortune.
...Hospitals are clogged up with people who are recovering in order to go home. They are not "ill" they are just on the mend but need a bit of time. This doesn't include elderly bed blockers.
Build a new ward on every hospital in the land where the recovering people can go - without laying in a bed surrounded by thousands upon thousands of pounds worth of equipment that they don't need [Post edited 8 Jan 10:45]
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Can recall that back in the 1960’s my Grandfather was shipped out of Addenbrookes and spent two weeks convalescing in Mundesley.
Worked then, would work now. |  |
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| The President of Peace… on 11:01 - Jan 8 with 1004 views | Churchman |
| The President of Peace… on 10:16 - Jan 8 by positivity |
again, i'm not sure you're in the majority in being happy to pay extra tax for the up-front investment in the nhs, but i'm with you.
as for the economics authority, i'm just glad you're happy to pay the extra £75 billion in taxes to get us to 5% of gdp from your own personal magic money tree. very generous of you! |
In a £3tn economy, the money can be found if there is a will to find it. The current defence budget is £53bn or just over 2% GDP. For relative cost public spending as a whole is £1.2tn pa. Over £200bn is spent on NHS and Social Care. 1p on income tax would raise £10bn approx?
When the government began to panic when the realities of no deal Brexit hit home the budget was literally unlimited. That’s a matter of public record. Covid? They managed to rustle up a few billion for that from thin air, especially when a few mates could feast out on fat contracts and those committing fraud had all the opportunity in the world. Over £7bn lost on fraud alone and impossible to recover a penny of it. No problem.
It’s just a question of priorities and the government like all those since god knows when do not see defence as a priority. If they did, they’d find the £ fast enough. They’re just not interested and are putting their faith in those nice men Messrs Trump, Putin and the Xi. This isn’t new. Politicians in 1938/39 buried their heads in the sand right up to the time Czechoslovakia was eaten up and Poland threatened.
It’s more a political choice than economic in my view. |  | | |
| The President of Peace… on 11:12 - Jan 8 with 959 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The President of Peace… on 11:01 - Jan 8 by Churchman |
In a £3tn economy, the money can be found if there is a will to find it. The current defence budget is £53bn or just over 2% GDP. For relative cost public spending as a whole is £1.2tn pa. Over £200bn is spent on NHS and Social Care. 1p on income tax would raise £10bn approx?
When the government began to panic when the realities of no deal Brexit hit home the budget was literally unlimited. That’s a matter of public record. Covid? They managed to rustle up a few billion for that from thin air, especially when a few mates could feast out on fat contracts and those committing fraud had all the opportunity in the world. Over £7bn lost on fraud alone and impossible to recover a penny of it. No problem.
It’s just a question of priorities and the government like all those since god knows when do not see defence as a priority. If they did, they’d find the £ fast enough. They’re just not interested and are putting their faith in those nice men Messrs Trump, Putin and the Xi. This isn’t new. Politicians in 1938/39 buried their heads in the sand right up to the time Czechoslovakia was eaten up and Poland threatened.
It’s more a political choice than economic in my view. |
.....and it won't seem so expensive when we get attacked and peoples loved ones skin is melting in front of them. | |
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| The President of Peace… on 11:43 - Jan 8 with 888 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
People giving far too much credence to the words of a manchild populist. We know he’s an incompetent, thick bigot, but he won’t really in charge of the US in the same way a senile Biden isn’t. | | | |
| The President of Peace… on 11:47 - Jan 8 with 881 views | positivity |
| The President of Peace… on 10:43 - Jan 8 by Lord_Lucan |
Re defence - I'm not denying the figures but I can't challenge them as internet is sketchy where I am and Google is banned.
However - as we were talking about the NHS as well and there are a few things just off the top of my head which make me think NHS is severely m is managed.
Procurement - The procurement (ditto the armed forces) is criminal.
Building work costs - Gravy train criminal
Agency staff - both of the above.
Now then, here's as novel idea to free up bed spaces and save a literal fortune.
...Hospitals are clogged up with people who are recovering in order to go home. They are not "ill" they are just on the mend but need a bit of time. This doesn't include elderly bed blockers.
Build a new ward on every hospital in the land where the recovering people can go - without laying in a bed surrounded by thousands upon thousands of pounds worth of equipment that they don't need [Post edited 8 Jan 10:45]
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i don't agree with the severely mismanaged, except from the government funding level (year on year real term cuts to front-line wages, inevitably leads to people leaving the system)
your suggestion is good though expensive. i'd be willing to pay extra tax for that kind of solution, but am unsure if it'd be a majority position (certaintly not when the wet wipes in the right-wing press get their teeth into it!). however, can't help thinking that an increase in social care funding and more of a joined-up approach would be a better long-term solution | |
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| The President of Peace… on 11:52 - Jan 8 with 848 views | positivity |
| The President of Peace… on 11:01 - Jan 8 by Churchman |
In a £3tn economy, the money can be found if there is a will to find it. The current defence budget is £53bn or just over 2% GDP. For relative cost public spending as a whole is £1.2tn pa. Over £200bn is spent on NHS and Social Care. 1p on income tax would raise £10bn approx?
When the government began to panic when the realities of no deal Brexit hit home the budget was literally unlimited. That’s a matter of public record. Covid? They managed to rustle up a few billion for that from thin air, especially when a few mates could feast out on fat contracts and those committing fraud had all the opportunity in the world. Over £7bn lost on fraud alone and impossible to recover a penny of it. No problem.
It’s just a question of priorities and the government like all those since god knows when do not see defence as a priority. If they did, they’d find the £ fast enough. They’re just not interested and are putting their faith in those nice men Messrs Trump, Putin and the Xi. This isn’t new. Politicians in 1938/39 buried their heads in the sand right up to the time Czechoslovakia was eaten up and Poland threatened.
It’s more a political choice than economic in my view. |
i think finding the money for a one-off emergency is different from finding billions every year to placate a man-baby who'll probably change his demands again tomorrow.
defence is a priority, but so is healthcare, social care, infrastructure etc, all are underfunded due to the low-tax lobby | |
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