| Jack Clarke.... 08:20 - Jan 17 with 5477 views | Funge |
... well, not sure what to make of him, at all.
A Mackem mate of mine says that we're playing him out of position - I hear that he should be out on the touchline, proverbial chalk on boots, cutting in and providing assists/ shots as per his efforts at Fulham.
As it stands, I'd argue he's had the least impact of any signing - but struggling to see where he fits into the line-up at present, or, indeed, where he offers anything different.
Proper weird one; after almost 6 months here you'd be hoping for a little more. |  | | |  |
| Jack Clarke.... on 08:22 - Jan 17 with 5084 views | FrimleyBlue |
I'd like to think he will go onto being a hell of a player who can do two roles.
At the moment tho he looks like we have ruined a perfectly good player. |  |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 08:30 - Jan 17 with 4980 views | GavTWTD |
We have one of the best coaches in the country and we have faith that KMcK can improve every player. It might take a little time to thrive in the L10 role but he's a talented footballer and it really shouldn't be impossible to retrain a LW to a L10. That said, he might come into his own when Leif doesn't play and we could overload the left as we sometimes do with the right. I think we need patience with him and his time will come, but in the meantime we needed Philogene through the door, a player that can play across the width of the pitch and give us versatility. |  |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 08:31 - Jan 17 with 4956 views | Pinewoodblue |
We didn’t sign him to play the way he did for Sunderland. KMc saw a player who has the ability to play the way we wanted.
Think it will work out but Broadhead plays the role better as I suspect will Philogene if we play him on the left. |  |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 08:39 - Jan 17 with 4850 views | Churchman |
I was with two mackems yesterday and they said the same thing.
Players settle at different rates and I actually think Clarke is a very talented player who’ll be fine.
Least impact? I understand what you are saying, but for me that’s Phillips. For somebody who was at the top of the game I expected more. But maybe that’s my unrealistic expectations and we will see it in the coming months. |  | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 08:41 - Jan 17 with 4817 views | BloomBlue |
Sometimes players have a limit which is below the level you expect.
Many of our fans wrote off a large percentage of our championship promotion winning team from last season as not PL level. Clarke was in theory one of the best players in the championship last season, but maybe that is his level.
But to be fair he is being asked to play a slight different role to last season, he's up against better opposition and he hasn't had a run of games. Conversely in this league you cannot afford to have a player in the team trying to get up to speed. Yes he is out of position but when coming on as sub there is nothing stopping him getting the ball and heading down the touchline to prove to KM this is the damage I can do. When he's had the chance he hasn't taken it.
On the flip look at Broadhead, he wasn't even getting on as a sub, but when he was finally selected, he demonstrated his ability.
Clarke is clearly a confidence player and is lacking that at the moment.
If the worse happens and we are relegated, then we will have a top player in the championship. We certainly aren't going to get the money back we paid for him based on performances to date |  | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 08:42 - Jan 17 with 4793 views | bsw72 |
When he bangs in the winning goal for us in the 2028 CL final against Barca, we will look back on this and laugh.
Oh, hang on, gotta go, the nurse is dishing out the meds. |  | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 08:49 - Jan 17 with 4629 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
No doubt KM will go to the very top of football with elite players and clubs, he is the best thing to ever happen in my life time at ITFC, thank you for that by the way.
But, the Jack Clarke signing is one to put down to experience.
Yes players can change roles within a postion but this is not working, it would be interesting to actually let him play his game which is running forwards and see if he can carry the ball instead of just getting the ball taken off him by some massive unit with loads of PL experience.
Got to feel sorry for him, looks lost and like he wants to hide under his big coat in the dug out until it's all over... |  | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 08:53 - Jan 17 with 4579 views | Wright1 |
I've seen so many Mackems online keen to push this narrative and honestly I think anyone who believes that has such a reductionist view of football.
He has a set of skills that we bought and those skills are just as relevant playing inside 10 - if anything he should get more chances to do what he does best in that role.
Indeed, the shot off the post at Fulham which you refer to is exactly the position I imagine McKenna is trying to get him in to - Leif is actually the one tearing down the line and Clarke is able to use that as a distraction and drive at the box. | | | |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 08:55 - Jan 17 with 4550 views | WolfieAtTheBack |
| Jack Clarke.... on 08:53 - Jan 17 by Wright1 |
I've seen so many Mackems online keen to push this narrative and honestly I think anyone who believes that has such a reductionist view of football.
He has a set of skills that we bought and those skills are just as relevant playing inside 10 - if anything he should get more chances to do what he does best in that role.
Indeed, the shot off the post at Fulham which you refer to is exactly the position I imagine McKenna is trying to get him in to - Leif is actually the one tearing down the line and Clarke is able to use that as a distraction and drive at the box. |
The biggest issue where ever plays he gets the ball taken off him in possession. That is not going to work in the Premier League. | | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 09:04 - Jan 17 with 4407 views | cvillageblue |
Let's be honest. He wasn't 1st choice. Probably not 2nd. Bit of a panic buy and now that we have finally signed Phillonge he will feature less.
Whilst we have seen flashes of what he can do his does not seem physical enough at the moment.
I hope he proves me wrong - but the fact that he only got about 10 mins last night shows where he currently is in the pecking order. | |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 09:04 - Jan 17 with 4407 views | nodge_blue |
Your mate is totally right. He needs to be in a bit of space running at someone. Play him very wide and he’s more likely to find that. Of all our signings he seems the most square peg in round hole. Sadly he doesn’t look as if he can play tucked in at this level or at least in a side where we are struggling to get good possession up the pitch. |  |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 09:31 - Jan 17 with 4121 views | gringoblue |
| Jack Clarke.... on 08:30 - Jan 17 by GavTWTD |
We have one of the best coaches in the country and we have faith that KMcK can improve every player. It might take a little time to thrive in the L10 role but he's a talented footballer and it really shouldn't be impossible to retrain a LW to a L10. That said, he might come into his own when Leif doesn't play and we could overload the left as we sometimes do with the right. I think we need patience with him and his time will come, but in the meantime we needed Philogene through the door, a player that can play across the width of the pitch and give us versatility. |
I know we weren't exactly pushing Brighton hard when he came on, but there were a couple of times when Clarke and Davis got in each other's way trying to occupy the same space. |  | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 09:36 - Jan 17 with 4071 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Jack Clarke.... on 08:53 - Jan 17 by Wright1 |
I've seen so many Mackems online keen to push this narrative and honestly I think anyone who believes that has such a reductionist view of football.
He has a set of skills that we bought and those skills are just as relevant playing inside 10 - if anything he should get more chances to do what he does best in that role.
Indeed, the shot off the post at Fulham which you refer to is exactly the position I imagine McKenna is trying to get him in to - Leif is actually the one tearing down the line and Clarke is able to use that as a distraction and drive at the box. |
He may have a set of skilsl but but when you are that small, that physically unable to compete with opponents for high balls or even on the deck, those skills really have to be at an especially high level, or you have to be very quick. Something has to compensate.
Far from convinced unfortunately. | | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 09:43 - Jan 17 with 4009 views | itfcjoe |
I think too much is made of people saying he needs to play wider when if you watch his highlight reel from last season basically every goal is scored from the position that our left sided 10 plays in - it's basically 5-10 yards over and like he does with leif he would use their full back to cut inside.
I appreciate there are some nuances to the role, but the issue is his lack pf physicality. He gets muscled off the ball too easily, when he dribbles he leaves room for a defender to get themselves between him and the ball and you can't do that.
he hasn't stepped up to the levels required, and this is the main reason. Not position |  |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 09:45 - Jan 17 with 3984 views | Wright1 |
| Jack Clarke.... on 09:43 - Jan 17 by itfcjoe |
I think too much is made of people saying he needs to play wider when if you watch his highlight reel from last season basically every goal is scored from the position that our left sided 10 plays in - it's basically 5-10 yards over and like he does with leif he would use their full back to cut inside.
I appreciate there are some nuances to the role, but the issue is his lack pf physicality. He gets muscled off the ball too easily, when he dribbles he leaves room for a defender to get themselves between him and the ball and you can't do that.
he hasn't stepped up to the levels required, and this is the main reason. Not position |
This 1000% | | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 09:58 - Jan 17 with 3879 views | davblue |
| Jack Clarke.... on 08:22 - Jan 17 by FrimleyBlue |
I'd like to think he will go onto being a hell of a player who can do two roles.
At the moment tho he looks like we have ruined a perfectly good player. |
give over.
Maybe, just maybe he's just not at the level required atm, nothing to do with us, that's just how it goes sometimes. |  | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 10:01 - Jan 17 with 3854 views | PhilTWTD |
| Jack Clarke.... on 09:43 - Jan 17 by itfcjoe |
I think too much is made of people saying he needs to play wider when if you watch his highlight reel from last season basically every goal is scored from the position that our left sided 10 plays in - it's basically 5-10 yards over and like he does with leif he would use their full back to cut inside.
I appreciate there are some nuances to the role, but the issue is his lack pf physicality. He gets muscled off the ball too easily, when he dribbles he leaves room for a defender to get themselves between him and the ball and you can't do that.
he hasn't stepped up to the levels required, and this is the main reason. Not position |
Indeed, just looks like he's playing a level above where he should be. Whether he steps up remains to be seen, but at the moment I don't think he gives us much and presumably that's the thinking from the management given the recruitment of Philogene, the player they were looking at signing before turning to him in the summer.
Re a point you made in another thread, Taylor coming on in that role ahead of JC may be further evidence the management feel that.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 10:16 - Jan 17 with 3648 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Jack Clarke.... on 09:58 - Jan 17 by davblue |
give over.
Maybe, just maybe he's just not at the level required atm, nothing to do with us, that's just how it goes sometimes. |
Exactly why my first sentence was included Dav | |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 10:22 - Jan 17 with 3555 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Jack Clarke.... on 10:01 - Jan 17 by PhilTWTD |
Indeed, just looks like he's playing a level above where he should be. Whether he steps up remains to be seen, but at the moment I don't think he gives us much and presumably that's the thinking from the management given the recruitment of Philogene, the player they were looking at signing before turning to him in the summer.
Re a point you made in another thread, Taylor coming on in that role ahead of JC may be further evidence the management feel that.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Also doesn't really help him at prem level that Davis can't go bombing forward on the overlap as much as you can in the championship. We saw against fulham that it can be costly when it doesn't come off. | |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 10:27 - Jan 17 with 3473 views | davblue |
| Jack Clarke.... on 10:16 - Jan 17 by FrimleyBlue |
Exactly why my first sentence was included Dav |
'At the moment tho he looks like we have ruined a perfectly good player.'
How have we ruined him? Genuinely interested how we have ruined him and it's maybe that he just isn't at the required level atm.
I don't think we've ruined him, he might be one of those who just needs a good pre season with us but i had doubts in the summer about his physicality and it's proven to be true so far, hope he comes good and rams it down my throat. | | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 10:35 - Jan 17 with 3404 views | nodge_blue |
| Jack Clarke.... on 09:43 - Jan 17 by itfcjoe |
I think too much is made of people saying he needs to play wider when if you watch his highlight reel from last season basically every goal is scored from the position that our left sided 10 plays in - it's basically 5-10 yards over and like he does with leif he would use their full back to cut inside.
I appreciate there are some nuances to the role, but the issue is his lack pf physicality. He gets muscled off the ball too easily, when he dribbles he leaves room for a defender to get themselves between him and the ball and you can't do that.
he hasn't stepped up to the levels required, and this is the main reason. Not position |
You may be right, but im not sure. By the time he's hit the shot of course he's moved into the number 10 position more. I remember him at PR being pretty wide for Sunderland and drifting inside. But that's different to starting tucked in and trying to find space. Hasn't he even said himself that he's being asked to adjust to a different role here?
heat map from couple of seasons back pretty much shows a very wide left player
https://images.app.goo.gl/BdWDocs6dQ9K6N3HA [Post edited 17 Jan 10:44]
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| Jack Clarke.... on 11:48 - Jan 17 with 3100 views | LankHenners |
Said at the time I wasn't convinced he was the right player for us. Lovely to watch when he can impact the game properly but didn't think he had the physicality for this league and haven't seen anything to change my mind.
Do think the subtle change of position isn't helpful for him as imo there is a difference between starting out wide and slightly more central but as others have said just gets too easily bullied out of the game.
As a Spurs mate said to me last night - there's a reason they were happy to sell him to Sunderland in the end rather than persist with him.
Wouldn't describe Philogene as a 'physical' player per se but always thought he was the one for us in the summer - just has that bit more about him and can get stuck in in the manner Omari does despite not being the strongest. |  |
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| Jack Clarke.... on 13:02 - Jan 17 with 2691 views | Churchman |
| Jack Clarke.... on 11:48 - Jan 17 by LankHenners |
Said at the time I wasn't convinced he was the right player for us. Lovely to watch when he can impact the game properly but didn't think he had the physicality for this league and haven't seen anything to change my mind.
Do think the subtle change of position isn't helpful for him as imo there is a difference between starting out wide and slightly more central but as others have said just gets too easily bullied out of the game.
As a Spurs mate said to me last night - there's a reason they were happy to sell him to Sunderland in the end rather than persist with him.
Wouldn't describe Philogene as a 'physical' player per se but always thought he was the one for us in the summer - just has that bit more about him and can get stuck in in the manner Omari does despite not being the strongest. |
I’m not sure Spurs requirements are the same as ours. They’re in a completely different league along with half the PL when it comes to players.
Clarke was one of the best players in the Championship last season. I think he’s a really good player with potential to do better. At the moment he comes on for a poor team by PL standards, mostly as sub, often when we are chasing a game with a midfield that’s collapsed in on itself and with our best forward already subbed. What chance has he truly had?
He’s a different player to Delap and Omari and I think with time and a better, more settled team he will be ok as long as he keeps working at his game and listening to the coaches.
He was not a ‘panic signing’ in my view. I don’t think the club is stupid enough to spend that kind of money in that way and it should not be forgotten that McKenna approves transfers so the ultimate accountability lies with him. [Post edited 17 Jan 14:41]
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| Jack Clarke.... on 14:26 - Jan 17 with 2387 views | Wright1 |
| Jack Clarke.... on 09:36 - Jan 17 by redrickstuhaart |
He may have a set of skilsl but but when you are that small, that physically unable to compete with opponents for high balls or even on the deck, those skills really have to be at an especially high level, or you have to be very quick. Something has to compensate.
Far from convinced unfortunately. |
That's nothing to do with him playing slightly narrower though - at the moment he is just way off it wherever he's playing. | | | |
| Jack Clarke.... on 14:43 - Jan 17 with 2277 views | TractorJack |
I still think his best game for us was against Villa. It's a chicken/egg situation. He's not impacting enough from the bench to get starts but he's only had 4 starts, it's difficult to find rhythm. |  | | |
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