| Knife Crime 09:09 - Feb 4 with 4927 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Wasn't yesterday thoroughly depressing? This kid in Sheffield killed by a fellow pupil at school and another teenager sent down in Wales for stabbing two teachers.
They interviewed someone who had lost a son, (missed the start so no idea of the name), and she went down the rabbit hole of, "it's happening because the government have closed all the youth schemes and they've got nothing to do".
They were using that excuse for anti social behaviour when I was a teen, a number of years ago.
Knife carrying is clearly a growing issue, but is there an answer? More stop and search? Immediate custodial sentences. My lad is 17, and its a concern for me, I'm sure it is for everyone here with a teenage kid or kids. |  |
| |  |
| Knife Crime on 09:18 - Feb 4 with 3196 views | NedPlimpton |
Austerity has absolutely had an impact. More children placed into poverty, funding cut for youth services, 1000 fewer youth centres in 2018 than in 2009, also the impact on departments that were there to help safeguard vulnerable young people
It's not an excuse, it's very much the reality |  | | |
| Knife Crime on 09:28 - Feb 4 with 3141 views | nrb1985 |
It's not a rabbit hole at all, there is a very clear link between the cutting for youth funding and the rise in crime. There are some excellent documentaries on this subject - Rio Ferdinand did one in fact a few years ago you can go and watch on youtube.
Perhaps these sorts of issues haven't quite reached leafy Cheltenham but I can assure you for kids like my nephew who lives in Stockwell, the impact of closing youth services has been profound. Next time you leave the Cotswolds, come and speak to some youth leaders in the inner cities who I'm sure will be able to give you more insights.
Labelling it a rabbit hole is as lazy and stupid as saying young people would be able to buy houses if they cut out Netflix and Avocado on toast... [Post edited 4 Feb 9:43]
|  | | |
| Knife Crime on 09:32 - Feb 4 with 3109 views | Basuco |
| Knife Crime on 09:18 - Feb 4 by NedPlimpton |
Austerity has absolutely had an impact. More children placed into poverty, funding cut for youth services, 1000 fewer youth centres in 2018 than in 2009, also the impact on departments that were there to help safeguard vulnerable young people
It's not an excuse, it's very much the reality |
The entire UK is broken, cuts in police numbers over the last 15 years, cuts in courts and magistrates, make crime easier to get away with. Cuts in the number of teachers and teaching assistants make classroom education more difficult. Cuts in mental health services, child and adult make supporting and helping mental health issues more and more difficult. Put all that in the pot and you end up with big problems. Combined with the fact that nobody wants to pay to improve these public services through any form of taxation, least of all those on higher incomes who can afford it, you end up with a Country in crisis. |  | | |
| Knife Crime on 09:52 - Feb 4 with 3009 views | hype313 |
| Knife Crime on 09:32 - Feb 4 by Basuco |
The entire UK is broken, cuts in police numbers over the last 15 years, cuts in courts and magistrates, make crime easier to get away with. Cuts in the number of teachers and teaching assistants make classroom education more difficult. Cuts in mental health services, child and adult make supporting and helping mental health issues more and more difficult. Put all that in the pot and you end up with big problems. Combined with the fact that nobody wants to pay to improve these public services through any form of taxation, least of all those on higher incomes who can afford it, you end up with a Country in crisis. |
Or we're just a country that is incredibly soft on crime. |  |
| |
| Knife Crime on 10:01 - Feb 4 with 2950 views | NedPlimpton |
| Knife Crime on 09:52 - Feb 4 by hype313 |
Or we're just a country that is incredibly soft on crime. |
How so? | | | |
| Knife Crime on 10:03 - Feb 4 with 2920 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Knife Crime on 09:28 - Feb 4 by nrb1985 |
It's not a rabbit hole at all, there is a very clear link between the cutting for youth funding and the rise in crime. There are some excellent documentaries on this subject - Rio Ferdinand did one in fact a few years ago you can go and watch on youtube.
Perhaps these sorts of issues haven't quite reached leafy Cheltenham but I can assure you for kids like my nephew who lives in Stockwell, the impact of closing youth services has been profound. Next time you leave the Cotswolds, come and speak to some youth leaders in the inner cities who I'm sure will be able to give you more insights.
Labelling it a rabbit hole is as lazy and stupid as saying young people would be able to buy houses if they cut out Netflix and Avocado on toast... [Post edited 4 Feb 9:43]
|
"Leafy Cheltenham", thats a hoot. I live in one of Cheltenham's main deprived areas, and if you think knife crime isn't happening here, then you are as lazy and stupid as you claim that I am.
Here's an idea, why don't you actually have a debate about the countrywide issue of knife crime rather than yet again, seizing on one singular comment to enable you to have a pop at a fellow poster.
Your bias is showing dear. The Cotswolds are wonderful, no one ever gets stabbed here. Maybe I should leave for somewhere with more 'grit' or maybe you should acknowledge you have no idea what my background is or the circles I moved in. [Post edited 4 Feb 10:04]
| |
| |
| Knife Crime on 10:06 - Feb 4 with 2870 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| Knife Crime on 09:52 - Feb 4 by hype313 |
Or we're just a country that is incredibly soft on crime. |
Well this thinking can be part of the problem. We need to tackle the reason WHY crimes are happening as well as acting appropriately when they do happen. Poverty is a fairly common reason - put people in ghettos and you will get ghetto people. Some of that is systemic so we can easily blame brown people but i'm not sure governments want to solve the cause as it usually helps give them a weapon to divide and conquer. [Post edited 4 Feb 11:00]
|  | | |
| Knife Crime on 10:10 - Feb 4 with 2823 views | lowhouseblue |
| Knife Crime on 09:32 - Feb 4 by Basuco |
The entire UK is broken, cuts in police numbers over the last 15 years, cuts in courts and magistrates, make crime easier to get away with. Cuts in the number of teachers and teaching assistants make classroom education more difficult. Cuts in mental health services, child and adult make supporting and helping mental health issues more and more difficult. Put all that in the pot and you end up with big problems. Combined with the fact that nobody wants to pay to improve these public services through any form of taxation, least of all those on higher incomes who can afford it, you end up with a Country in crisis. |
but despite all that crime in general has been falling. the uk you describe ought to be hitting unprecedented levels of criminality - but that's not the case. one area of crime which is rising is knife crime - so it's a good question as to why the cuts and broken britain story you describe has led to crime falling over all but has seen knife crime rise significantly. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Knife Crime on 10:10 - Feb 4 with 2824 views | SaffronWaldenBlues |
It's the state of our country. We have one group of people who are poor, getting poorer and getting trapt, and another whose interest does not extend beyond owning a house, a nice car, and how many holidays they can get in a year.
I saw the interview you did, and closing youth centers will not increase stabbings, a terrible, self-centered, money-driven, culture has created a massive gap between rich and poor and those at the bottom no longer see a way out because successive Governments have cut off the rungs of the ladder for a huge chunk of the British population, who live in poverty, in crime infested areas, in crumbling social housing and the sad thing is, nobody really cares anymore.
It is only going to get worse, until we as a culture, say enough is enough. However too many only care about their own pockets. |  |
| An East Anglian Town overtaken by Londoners |
| |
| Knife Crime on 10:58 - Feb 4 with 2702 views | nrb1985 |
| Knife Crime on 10:03 - Feb 4 by Cheltenham_Blue |
"Leafy Cheltenham", thats a hoot. I live in one of Cheltenham's main deprived areas, and if you think knife crime isn't happening here, then you are as lazy and stupid as you claim that I am.
Here's an idea, why don't you actually have a debate about the countrywide issue of knife crime rather than yet again, seizing on one singular comment to enable you to have a pop at a fellow poster.
Your bias is showing dear. The Cotswolds are wonderful, no one ever gets stabbed here. Maybe I should leave for somewhere with more 'grit' or maybe you should acknowledge you have no idea what my background is or the circles I moved in. [Post edited 4 Feb 10:04]
|
"Yet again" - not sure I've ever interacted with you before on any topic?!
Separately, what about your "rabbit hole" comment implies that you're either well informed on the topic or open to reasoned discussion?
And it wasn't just me who "seized" on that point, at least one other poster did. So perhaps, if you want to get into a discussion, think more carefully about the language you use.
For what it's worth though - pointing out that cut backs have very much had a contribution to the rise in knife crime, along with a complete lack of social mobility or opportunities for young people, is my contribution to your debate.
As mentioned, will be delighted to show you around some of the "grittier" parts of London next time you and your Hunter wellies are in the vicinity dear :) | | | |
| Knife Crime on 12:57 - Feb 4 with 2582 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Lots of the reasons already mentioned regarding cuts ETC
I think solving in these issues there needs to be better community policing. Officers working the same locations all the time. Being familiar and approachable to people in the area. Would give them a much better chance at understanding who needs to be kept an eye on.
As opposed to more Stop and search which is basically just stopping a bunch of random black teenagers and searching them. That is going to, rightly, erode trust in police. Targeted stop and search obviously has a place but I don't think increasing it generally would help. |  |
| |
| Knife Crime on 13:16 - Feb 4 with 2547 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Knife Crime on 12:57 - Feb 4 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Lots of the reasons already mentioned regarding cuts ETC
I think solving in these issues there needs to be better community policing. Officers working the same locations all the time. Being familiar and approachable to people in the area. Would give them a much better chance at understanding who needs to be kept an eye on.
As opposed to more Stop and search which is basically just stopping a bunch of random black teenagers and searching them. That is going to, rightly, erode trust in police. Targeted stop and search obviously has a place but I don't think increasing it generally would help. |
I think you are bang on about stop and search, eroding trust and certainly the risk of social profiling, particularly in inner cities.
More community, or rather better policing is absolutely right, but again it comes down to how much we as tax payers want taken from our wage packets, Police numbers are more or less back to 2010 levels, but I've seen no noticeable increase in street policing in my area; have you?
As I've mentioned earlier I live in one of the deprived areas of Cheltenham, the teens around here who cause issues are generally able to act with impunity and escape on e-bikes if there is any risk of challenge. Without a vast increase in Police numbers, which will increase taxation.
And frankly, 'Specials' or 'Community officers' or whatever the unpaid plod are called now are not taken seriously in anyway.
I'm at a loss to understand what can be done in the short term without resorting to recently unthinkable measures, like putting metal detectors on school doors. | |
| |
| Knife Crime on 13:20 - Feb 4 with 2534 views | textbackup |
Watched a program featuring Idris Elba on BBC the other day. Was frightening.
Absolutely no idea what sort of freak needs to own one of these knives, if they can lock people up for nasty words on online surely throw the book at anyone found carrying a knife. |  |
| |
| Knife Crime on 13:24 - Feb 4 with 2494 views | StNeotsBlue |
Too early to say what was behind the Sheffield case but the one in Wales was nothing to do with any of the points raised by anyone yet. It was a case of a young girl who did it for the fame (her quote in the trial evidence). |  | | |
| Knife Crime on 13:26 - Feb 4 with 2473 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Knife Crime on 13:20 - Feb 4 by textbackup |
Watched a program featuring Idris Elba on BBC the other day. Was frightening.
Absolutely no idea what sort of freak needs to own one of these knives, if they can lock people up for nasty words on online surely throw the book at anyone found carrying a knife. |
4 years apparently, but with no minimum for a first offence.
Trouble is, easily hidden aren't they? | |
| |
| Knife Crime on 13:33 - Feb 4 with 2419 views | 66notout |
| Knife Crime on 10:10 - Feb 4 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
It's the state of our country. We have one group of people who are poor, getting poorer and getting trapt, and another whose interest does not extend beyond owning a house, a nice car, and how many holidays they can get in a year.
I saw the interview you did, and closing youth centers will not increase stabbings, a terrible, self-centered, money-driven, culture has created a massive gap between rich and poor and those at the bottom no longer see a way out because successive Governments have cut off the rungs of the ladder for a huge chunk of the British population, who live in poverty, in crime infested areas, in crumbling social housing and the sad thing is, nobody really cares anymore.
It is only going to get worse, until we as a culture, say enough is enough. However too many only care about their own pockets. |
So, so true, sadly. It’s a very uncaring society compared to the one in which I grew up soon after World War II. It’s a pass-the-buck, money-grabbing, not-my-fault society these days. We have approximately 14 million people living in poverty and most of the others couldn’t care less. A lot of those unaffected think it’s enough to help at a food bank - that’s today’s version of doing your bit. | | | |
| Knife Crime on 13:35 - Feb 4 with 2407 views | textbackup |
| Knife Crime on 13:26 - Feb 4 by Cheltenham_Blue |
4 years apparently, but with no minimum for a first offence.
Trouble is, easily hidden aren't they? |
They are… and honestly the only way to get them is random stop and searches. Which opens up a can of worms.
However, as a nation, if people just banged their heads together to say ‘I don’t want to die, I don’t want my brother son uncle etc to die… let’s just accept that the police need to do a job to keep us safe’
It’s not that easy I know, as people are arseholes. But something needs to be done. Too much pain is felt, and too many families left in a mess. | |
| |
| Knife Crime on 13:38 - Feb 4 with 2379 views | tcblue |
Part of the answer is undoubtedly giving those who have nothing, something.
Something to be prideful about, other than gang membership (which is what expands into spaces where there is nothing else).
Stop and search does nothing other than make 'brown people' feel victimised. | | | |
| Knife Crime on 13:50 - Feb 4 with 2296 views | NedPlimpton |
| Knife Crime on 10:10 - Feb 4 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
It's the state of our country. We have one group of people who are poor, getting poorer and getting trapt, and another whose interest does not extend beyond owning a house, a nice car, and how many holidays they can get in a year.
I saw the interview you did, and closing youth centers will not increase stabbings, a terrible, self-centered, money-driven, culture has created a massive gap between rich and poor and those at the bottom no longer see a way out because successive Governments have cut off the rungs of the ladder for a huge chunk of the British population, who live in poverty, in crime infested areas, in crumbling social housing and the sad thing is, nobody really cares anymore.
It is only going to get worse, until we as a culture, say enough is enough. However too many only care about their own pockets. |
"Closing Youth Centres will not increase stabbings"
Care to show your workings? Have you spent much time in inner-city youth programmes? | | | |
| Knife Crime on 13:54 - Feb 4 with 2258 views | textbackup |
| Knife Crime on 13:38 - Feb 4 by tcblue |
Part of the answer is undoubtedly giving those who have nothing, something.
Something to be prideful about, other than gang membership (which is what expands into spaces where there is nothing else).
Stop and search does nothing other than make 'brown people' feel victimised. |
A large % of knife crime is by white people. So ‘brown’ people shouldn’t need to feel that way, as ‘white’ people will rightly be searched too.
Moaning one colour is searched more than the other isn’t going to help the situation get any better is it | |
| |
| Knife Crime on 14:00 - Feb 4 with 2228 views | NedPlimpton |
| Knife Crime on 13:54 - Feb 4 by textbackup |
A large % of knife crime is by white people. So ‘brown’ people shouldn’t need to feel that way, as ‘white’ people will rightly be searched too.
Moaning one colour is searched more than the other isn’t going to help the situation get any better is it |
No, but institutional racism could lead to one "colour" being more victimised than another
Just look at the stop and search rates per 1000 for those of non-white heritage
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/pol
No wonder there's a distrust for police or the government amongst some ethnicities | | | |
| Knife Crime on 14:06 - Feb 4 with 2156 views | blueasfook |
| Knife Crime on 10:10 - Feb 4 by lowhouseblue |
but despite all that crime in general has been falling. the uk you describe ought to be hitting unprecedented levels of criminality - but that's not the case. one area of crime which is rising is knife crime - so it's a good question as to why the cuts and broken britain story you describe has led to crime falling over all but has seen knife crime rise significantly. |
I think it's a culture thing. Gangs, Drill music, roadmen, zombie knives, the feds, beefing, chillin wiv me mandem. There's a whole culture in which being in a gang and carrying a huge knife is "cool". That's what needs tackling. Breaking down the gang culture. |  |
| |
| Knife Crime on 14:07 - Feb 4 with 2136 views | lowhouseblue |
variations in stop and search rates are primarily determined by age and geography. people who live in areas where knife crime is high, and are in the age group most commonly committing knife crimes, are most likely to be stopped. that explains the different rates and race alone is not now the causal factor. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Knife Crime on 14:07 - Feb 4 with 2138 views | tcblue |
| Knife Crime on 13:54 - Feb 4 by textbackup |
A large % of knife crime is by white people. So ‘brown’ people shouldn’t need to feel that way, as ‘white’ people will rightly be searched too.
Moaning one colour is searched more than the other isn’t going to help the situation get any better is it |
I've admittedly never been white, but my experiences over the years of stop and search haven't made me feel particularly happy.
Do you really think stop and search is done based on reasonable suspicion? | | | |
| Knife Crime on 14:13 - Feb 4 with 2051 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
I don't think there is really any 'could lead to' about it. Racial profiling is a real thing and there is very firm evidence for it happening, especially in inter city forces.
However, that does nothing to address how we tackle the open carrying of knives amongst teenagers. The notion that teenagers pick up knives because they are 'bored' which was the inference in the interview I watched this morning, simply does not hold weight, the reason knives are carried is more nuanced than was suggested then or on here so far.
I think there is a cultural element that is forming unchecked, maybe via access to social media, maybe not. Yes gangs are an issue, but their core recruitment activity is 'look what you can have without working too hard' and I don't believe that most kids don't really fall for that.
It's a conundrum, because without getting knives, (which every kid can find in their parents kitchen), off the streets then the problem will only continue and ultimately increase. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
