| Good to know we're all in safe hands. 11:51 - Feb 11 with 7352 views | SWBlue22 |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 22:27 - Feb 11 with 1456 views | J2BLUE |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 21:46 - Feb 11 by Trequartista |
This stuff all peaked two or three years ago, it's slowly but surely on the way out. |
I think there is some truth to that. |  |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 22:58 - Feb 11 with 1398 views | positivity |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 21:20 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
I’d give them the benefit of the doubt and guess they think the sentiment in the post and previous one is overkill, which would be ironic given the point of the verse. Better lacking any sense of irony than being a Nazi sympathiser though!
It’s scary times. I’ve no idea if we’re heading for wide-scale persecution of minorities here in the UK, but as DJR showed above (and the riots last summer, and the increases in antisemitism and Islamophobia) there is certainly a growing intolerance that should be ringing some alarm bells for any decent people. [Post edited 11 Feb 21:22]
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those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. it's daft to be as complacent to the rise of the right wing again as some on here are [Post edited 11 Feb 23:07]
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:02 - Feb 11 with 1390 views | positivity |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 22:08 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
it is very complicated. there is a public debate going on in the uk about the conflict of rights between different groups (where the rights of trans women conflict with those of biological women). those sorts of debates take place in democracies, and over time public opinion moves about as to where the right balance lies. we are not seeing anything more than that. drawing analogies with 1930s germany, the holocaust etc, etc, is overkill, exaggerated and verging on hysterical. people choose to present it in that way simply to delegitimise those who disagree with them (you have different views from me therefore you're the sort of person who in the 1930s ended up 'coming for' the jews). it's cheap and divisive. |
the demonising language of the right wing press and social media are far more cheap and divisive than the wise words from history | |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:12 - Feb 11 with 1342 views | ronnyd |
What's David de Gea doing there. | | | |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:15 - Feb 11 with 1339 views | lowhouseblue |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:02 - Feb 11 by positivity |
the demonising language of the right wing press and social media are far more cheap and divisive than the wise words from history |
demonising is bad. being hysterical is bad. perhaps we could all just discuss issues in their own terms rather than rushing straight to the shouty editorialising level. plus the constant hitler stuff is particularly wearing. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:36 - Feb 11 with 1306 views | positivity |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:15 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
demonising is bad. being hysterical is bad. perhaps we could all just discuss issues in their own terms rather than rushing straight to the shouty editorialising level. plus the constant hitler stuff is particularly wearing. |
when the farages/yaxley-lennons/musks are consantly demonising immigrants, trans people, muslims etc and blaming them for everything wrong in society, what's your answer?
sit and wring your hands, or point to the warnings from history? appeasing them hasn't worked, platforming them hasn't worked, what would you do? [Post edited 11 Feb 23:45]
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:59 - Feb 11 with 1269 views | lowhouseblue |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:36 - Feb 11 by positivity |
when the farages/yaxley-lennons/musks are consantly demonising immigrants, trans people, muslims etc and blaming them for everything wrong in society, what's your answer?
sit and wring your hands, or point to the warnings from history? appeasing them hasn't worked, platforming them hasn't worked, what would you do? [Post edited 11 Feb 23:45]
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argue with them. show them to be wrong. engage with what they say and show its contradictions. don't call them names. remember that they are a small minority and the reasonable majority is open to persuasion. don't catastrophise, or exaggerate, or draw weak comparisons with the worst of history because if you do reasonable people will think you're just as mad as the loons you're opposing. listen to other people and find things you agree about. find connections between their views and yours. realise that everyone has to compromise. it's how successful politics always works. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 06:36 - Feb 12 with 1152 views | textbackup |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 12:05 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
so what does treating someone who identifies as a llama with 'respect and dignity' actually involve. do we have to believe that they're a llama? |
Just ignore them, just as kids at schools have been told to do with these freak kids who believe they are cats or something. |  |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 07:34 - Feb 12 with 1105 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:59 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
argue with them. show them to be wrong. engage with what they say and show its contradictions. don't call them names. remember that they are a small minority and the reasonable majority is open to persuasion. don't catastrophise, or exaggerate, or draw weak comparisons with the worst of history because if you do reasonable people will think you're just as mad as the loons you're opposing. listen to other people and find things you agree about. find connections between their views and yours. realise that everyone has to compromise. it's how successful politics always works. |
Unfortunately, people aren’t rational enough to engage in those terms and believe any old crap peddled by bad actors. For example:
A lot of people aren’t swayed by reasoned arguments based around facts. More people up-voted the OP in this thread as a minor example just on here, and this place is more immune to this rubbish that a lot of places. |  |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:07 - Feb 12 with 1059 views | Herbivore |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 07:34 - Feb 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Unfortunately, people aren’t rational enough to engage in those terms and believe any old crap peddled by bad actors. For example:
A lot of people aren’t swayed by reasoned arguments based around facts. More people up-voted the OP in this thread as a minor example just on here, and this place is more immune to this rubbish that a lot of places. |
The Sam Kerr thread is also proof positive that the approach of reasoned debate doesn't work with many people. |  |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:10 - Feb 12 with 1051 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 21:38 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
yes it's complete overkill verging on the hysterical. no one has 'come for' trans people and we have more asylum seekers and muslims in the uk than ever before. all this stuff is complicated and cliched exaggeration doesn't lead to sensible discussion. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Brianna_Ghey
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2023/11/13/beaten-stabbed-and-shot-320
At the moment, in the UK, trans-bashing attacks, and rare cases of deliberate targeting of trans people for murder, are carried out by individuals or small groups, rather than being caught in Gestapo raids and dragged off to camps, as was the case with Niemoller's examples.
But there are two important points to note:
1) how much does the mocking and sneering at trans people, and using them as the easy target for culture wars quick owns against the libs, create the climate in which some individuals act violently?
2) "In the UK" is the important qualifier in that paragraph. A trans person in Uganda, as just one example where the Government has passed exceedingly regressive laws against the LGBTQ communities (including the death penalty) would be fearing a knock at the door and a similar situation to those mentioned by Niemoller. | | | |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:11 - Feb 12 with 1043 views | textbackup |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 07:34 - Feb 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Unfortunately, people aren’t rational enough to engage in those terms and believe any old crap peddled by bad actors. For example:
A lot of people aren’t swayed by reasoned arguments based around facts. More people up-voted the OP in this thread as a minor example just on here, and this place is more immune to this rubbish that a lot of places. |
You want people to waste their time arguing with these people that they aren’t cats or whatever, instead of just ignoring them but thinking they are freaks?
Whats the point in engaging if you can’t be arsed to?
Nothing would change my mind. | |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:20 - Feb 12 with 1026 views | DJR |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 06:36 - Feb 12 by textbackup |
Just ignore them, just as kids at schools have been told to do with these freak kids who believe they are cats or something. |
Did you not read my earlier post which I repeat.
Stories about children identifying as cats were certainly bogus.
As the article states
These stories are not quirky urban legends. They are apart of a broader pattern of opposing trans rights and LGBTQ+ inclusive policies, especially in schools.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/23623894.children-identify-cat |  | | |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:41 - Feb 12 with 962 views | textbackup |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:20 - Feb 12 by DJR |
Did you not read my earlier post which I repeat.
Stories about children identifying as cats were certainly bogus.
As the article states
These stories are not quirky urban legends. They are apart of a broader pattern of opposing trans rights and LGBTQ+ inclusive policies, especially in schools.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/23623894.children-identify-cat |
They aren’t bogus.
There is a number of these kids at schools in the Ipswich area. | |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:43 - Feb 12 with 959 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:11 - Feb 12 by textbackup |
You want people to waste their time arguing with these people that they aren’t cats or whatever, instead of just ignoring them but thinking they are freaks?
Whats the point in engaging if you can’t be arsed to?
Nothing would change my mind. |
It’s made up | |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:45 - Feb 12 with 944 views | Herbivore |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:41 - Feb 12 by textbackup |
They aren’t bogus.
There is a number of these kids at schools in the Ipswich area. |
Lolz. | |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:59 - Feb 12 with 901 views | textbackup |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:45 - Feb 12 by Herbivore |
Lolz. |
The teacher couple we went camping with in the summer must be lying then. Of course, TWTD knows best | |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 09:25 - Feb 12 with 865 views | positivity |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 23:59 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
argue with them. show them to be wrong. engage with what they say and show its contradictions. don't call them names. remember that they are a small minority and the reasonable majority is open to persuasion. don't catastrophise, or exaggerate, or draw weak comparisons with the worst of history because if you do reasonable people will think you're just as mad as the loons you're opposing. listen to other people and find things you agree about. find connections between their views and yours. realise that everyone has to compromise. it's how successful politics always works. |
you can't do that when the far right own the media; look at what spurious nonsense people believe on here, because they've seen it on twitter. you can argue all you like, continuously win the debates, but they will repress it and amplify their alternative "facts". this thread is a case in point.
if you continually give this "minority" an outsized platform and continue to appease their nonsense, they will lie and get away with it. you ignore the parallels with history at your peril | |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 09:47 - Feb 12 with 822 views | blueasfook |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 12:20 - Feb 11 by MattinLondon |
That sounds like quite a fun thing to do. |
I booked it last night. Going on 1st March. £98 though for 2 of us. Not cheap! |  |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 10:11 - Feb 12 with 773 views | lowhouseblue |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:10 - Feb 12 by ArnoldMoorhen |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Brianna_Ghey
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2023/11/13/beaten-stabbed-and-shot-320
At the moment, in the UK, trans-bashing attacks, and rare cases of deliberate targeting of trans people for murder, are carried out by individuals or small groups, rather than being caught in Gestapo raids and dragged off to camps, as was the case with Niemoller's examples.
But there are two important points to note:
1) how much does the mocking and sneering at trans people, and using them as the easy target for culture wars quick owns against the libs, create the climate in which some individuals act violently?
2) "In the UK" is the important qualifier in that paragraph. A trans person in Uganda, as just one example where the Government has passed exceedingly regressive laws against the LGBTQ communities (including the death penalty) would be fearing a knock at the door and a similar situation to those mentioned by Niemoller. |
i've only been talking about the uk.
serious assaults on trans people are rare - the tragic case you link is an exception. very sadly every culture tends to have elements of bullying that focus on people who are different and vulnerable. in the uk we've have equally tragic cases where disabled people and learning disabled people have been picked on, bullied, assaulted and even murdered. often it's done by people who are socio-economically or educationally disadvantaged or in terms of social integration, or for some other reason might be themselves been seen as vulnerable. often it's an adolescent ganging up thing.
i'm sure in lots of places - playgrounds, bits of social media, pubs etc there is mocking and sneering at trans people just as there is the same directed at other groups who are labelled different.
but that is different from public debate about the trans issue. in the uk we currently have a public debate about the conflict of rights between groups. it is completely wrong to see that debate as "mocking and sneering at trans people, and using them as the easy target for culture wars quick owns against the libs". it is also completely wrong to see any link between what is happening in the uk "at the moment" and "being caught in Gestapo raids and dragged off to camps". | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 10:21 - Feb 12 with 729 views | lowhouseblue |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 07:34 - Feb 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Unfortunately, people aren’t rational enough to engage in those terms and believe any old crap peddled by bad actors. For example:
A lot of people aren’t swayed by reasoned arguments based around facts. More people up-voted the OP in this thread as a minor example just on here, and this place is more immune to this rubbish that a lot of places. |
"Unfortunately, people aren’t rational enough to engage in those terms and believe any old crap peddled by bad actors."
damn i left off my list of how to do politics in a democracy that you do actually have to believe that the majority of your fellow citizens are reasonable, have agency and are capable of rational independent thinking. it's too much to ask that you actually like them, but you could try assuming that they have the same capacities as you have!!
i'm coming to think that this is probably the biggest issue i disagree with some people on here about. it feels that a lot of people who see them selves as 'left' have utter contempt for their fellow citizens - especially their working class ones. they also seem to have swallowed whole some hackneyed version of 'false consciousness' and believe that everyone, except them of course, are simply puppets of bad actors and believe any nonsense that is pushed at them.
so if you want to stop the rise of the right you also have to stop believing your fellow citizens are scum and start working out why their experience is different from yours. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 10:43 - Feb 12 with 677 views | Herbivore |
| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 08:59 - Feb 12 by textbackup |
The teacher couple we went camping with in the summer must be lying then. Of course, TWTD knows best |
They were winding you up, mate. | |
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| Good to know we're all in safe hands. on 15:00 - Feb 12 with 574 views | wischip |
Are A Flock Of Seagulls back out on tour again ? |  | | |
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