| What I can't figure out is.... on 21:22 - Mar 18 with 4559 views | Oldsmoker |
A bit of a sweeping statement.
I'm sure there's at least one who could convince you to drop the 'total'.
Excellent phishing bait by the way.
It had a Phil Ban written all over it but I guess you win some, you lose some. |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 00:25 - Mar 19 with 4389 views | giant_stow |
Fvckries. |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 00:38 - Mar 19 with 4369 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 00:25 - Mar 19 by giant_stow |
Fvckries. |
Must be one of those correlation does not imply causality things. To be fair Lammy did try to be honest today but was quickly slapped down. Led by donkeys. |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 07:11 - Mar 19 with 4216 views | BlueBadger |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 00:38 - Mar 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Must be one of those correlation does not imply causality things. To be fair Lammy did try to be honest today but was quickly slapped down. Led by donkeys. |
Turns out, he was planning on voting 'hell yass' for it it. |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 07:46 - Mar 19 with 4115 views | lowhouseblue |
how come your first thought on waking every morning seems to be 'how can i bait people'? doesn't your bed come with a non-trolling side that you could get out of? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 07:52 - Mar 19 with 4091 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 07:46 - Mar 19 by lowhouseblue |
how come your first thought on waking every morning seems to be 'how can i bait people'? doesn't your bed come with a non-trolling side that you could get out of? |
It's the prospect of doing the gardening night shift that makes me do it. | |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 07:55 - Mar 19 with 4052 views | lowhouseblue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 07:52 - Mar 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
It's the prospect of doing the gardening night shift that makes me do it. |
apologies. i looked at the time of the last post rather than the op. that's fine then, late evening trolling and baiting is a core board activity. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 08:51 - Mar 19 with 3921 views | Swansea_Blue |
It’s an interesting tactic to target some of the most vulnerable people in society; not exactly what Labour is supposed to stand for. But then we’ve known for a while that Starmer’s Labour sold out their party’s principles for their sole aim of getting into power. And to a degree that’s understandable. You can’t do anything if you don’t have the keys to Number 10. But now they are in power, they have a choice.
It’s the dishonesty that annoys me the most. Kendal was saying they were getting to the root causes by this restructuring, but I didn’t hear anything yesterday about those root causes. It’s purely a financially driven decision from what I can tell.
The other annoying thing is that they have other options (and are again lying about that). Richard Murphy (left-leaning economist and academic) regularly covers those options on his blog. His entry today sums up the false position being presented by Labour. https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2025/03/19/the-government-says-it-must-cut-b |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 09:05 - Mar 19 with 3868 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 08:51 - Mar 19 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s an interesting tactic to target some of the most vulnerable people in society; not exactly what Labour is supposed to stand for. But then we’ve known for a while that Starmer’s Labour sold out their party’s principles for their sole aim of getting into power. And to a degree that’s understandable. You can’t do anything if you don’t have the keys to Number 10. But now they are in power, they have a choice.
It’s the dishonesty that annoys me the most. Kendal was saying they were getting to the root causes by this restructuring, but I didn’t hear anything yesterday about those root causes. It’s purely a financially driven decision from what I can tell.
The other annoying thing is that they have other options (and are again lying about that). Richard Murphy (left-leaning economist and academic) regularly covers those options on his blog. His entry today sums up the false position being presented by Labour. https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2025/03/19/the-government-says-it-must-cut-b |
Jeez if he had a quid for every time he used ‘neoliberal’ he could fund the shortfall himself…
He’s proposed tax/NI (same thing) increases to pay for it which is fair enough, but KS backed himself into a corner promising no rises pre-election. He’s already portrayed as dishonest by the media so he might as well go for it. I suspect he’s also concerned about chocking off what little growth is projected (and some projections have the economy shrinking in Q1) by further cutting people’s disposable income.
Re borrowing, the reason the markets reacted (and it was what they and rating agencies predicted), was because Labours plan was merely filling holes in budgets. Not all borrowing is equal (which is what some left leaning economists ignore), investors want to see growth generating borrowing in order to get their investment back. It’s a test of faith and credibility which KS and Reeves failed. |  | | |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 09:44 - Mar 19 with 3794 views | DJR |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 08:51 - Mar 19 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s an interesting tactic to target some of the most vulnerable people in society; not exactly what Labour is supposed to stand for. But then we’ve known for a while that Starmer’s Labour sold out their party’s principles for their sole aim of getting into power. And to a degree that’s understandable. You can’t do anything if you don’t have the keys to Number 10. But now they are in power, they have a choice.
It’s the dishonesty that annoys me the most. Kendal was saying they were getting to the root causes by this restructuring, but I didn’t hear anything yesterday about those root causes. It’s purely a financially driven decision from what I can tell.
The other annoying thing is that they have other options (and are again lying about that). Richard Murphy (left-leaning economist and academic) regularly covers those options on his blog. His entry today sums up the false position being presented by Labour. https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2025/03/19/the-government-says-it-must-cut-b |
One problem when you go down this route is that it is never enough.
The Tories, the Mail, Andrew Neil and Nick Ferrari are all saying the cuts should have been greater. |  | | |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:06 - Mar 19 with 3747 views | itfcjoe |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 09:44 - Mar 19 by DJR |
One problem when you go down this route is that it is never enough.
The Tories, the Mail, Andrew Neil and Nick Ferrari are all saying the cuts should have been greater. |
Wherever you set the limit it is about balancing the amount of people who falsely claim, versus those who will now no longer be able to get what they need. Labour must know that there will now be some egregious examples of people not getting what they need over the next few months but must presume it will be worth it.
Ultimately though there is a major issue with more and more disability or ling term sick claimants going up massively since the pandemic especially amongst the young. There must be lots of factors to it - but it can't continue as it is both for long term size of the benefits bill and young people never being able to work because that is a doomed existence.
By cutting out of work benefits but not disability/sickness benefits it seems people have just migrated across to the more generous side of things - but taxpayers can't afford to see young people not working forever, it's just not fair in general. |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:08 - Mar 19 with 3735 views | J2BLUE |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 00:38 - Mar 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Must be one of those correlation does not imply causality things. To be fair Lammy did try to be honest today but was quickly slapped down. Led by donkeys. |
Did Lammy then stand by his principles and resign? |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:18 - Mar 19 with 3700 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:06 - Mar 19 by itfcjoe |
Wherever you set the limit it is about balancing the amount of people who falsely claim, versus those who will now no longer be able to get what they need. Labour must know that there will now be some egregious examples of people not getting what they need over the next few months but must presume it will be worth it.
Ultimately though there is a major issue with more and more disability or ling term sick claimants going up massively since the pandemic especially amongst the young. There must be lots of factors to it - but it can't continue as it is both for long term size of the benefits bill and young people never being able to work because that is a doomed existence.
By cutting out of work benefits but not disability/sickness benefits it seems people have just migrated across to the more generous side of things - but taxpayers can't afford to see young people not working forever, it's just not fair in general. |
Ultimately would be cheaper to get people treated and back to work, and paying tax. It’s virtually impossible to see a GP, let alone get any treatment (accept that’s not the same for all geographies). Unfortunately our health system is broken with little but tinkering on the horizon. This is exactly the kind of thing we should be borrowing for - getting people treated and back to work is a measurable and tangible economic boost. Right now we have one of the worst long term sickness rates in Europe. | | | |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:22 - Mar 19 with 3684 views | itfcjoe |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:18 - Mar 19 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Ultimately would be cheaper to get people treated and back to work, and paying tax. It’s virtually impossible to see a GP, let alone get any treatment (accept that’s not the same for all geographies). Unfortunately our health system is broken with little but tinkering on the horizon. This is exactly the kind of thing we should be borrowing for - getting people treated and back to work is a measurable and tangible economic boost. Right now we have one of the worst long term sickness rates in Europe. |
We are the only G7 economy that hasn't bounced back in this regard since the pandemic - at one point I presume it was seen as long covid but the numbers are well past that now.
Is it a mental health crisis? Why is it different here and elsewhere as sure our health service isn't *that* much worse | |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:23 - Mar 19 with 3671 views | DJR |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:08 - Mar 19 by J2BLUE |
Did Lammy then stand by his principles and resign? |
Of course not.
This from the Guardian.
"The foreign secretary later said he “could have been clearer” in the chamber, when asked in an interview with Bloomberg if he regretted making the statement."
The No.10 spoke explanation for not saying Israel has broken international law was the following.
“The government is not an international court, and, therefore, it is up to courts to make judgments.”
Funny though that such reasoning doesn't apply to breaches of international law by countries like Russia which governments are more than happy to condemn. [Post edited 19 Mar 10:36]
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:25 - Mar 19 with 3660 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:22 - Mar 19 by itfcjoe |
We are the only G7 economy that hasn't bounced back in this regard since the pandemic - at one point I presume it was seen as long covid but the numbers are well past that now.
Is it a mental health crisis? Why is it different here and elsewhere as sure our health service isn't *that* much worse |
Look at the overall Healthcare spend vs GDP compared to our peers (and compounded over the last 15+ years) will give you your answer. I suspect mental health spending fairs even worse, leading to long wait times and poor services. | | | |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:44 - Mar 19 with 3599 views | itfcjoe |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:25 - Mar 19 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Look at the overall Healthcare spend vs GDP compared to our peers (and compounded over the last 15+ years) will give you your answer. I suspect mental health spending fairs even worse, leading to long wait times and poor services. |
But if 1 in 4 young people have thought about leaving the workforce in the last 12 months for mostly mental health reasons, then how could any mental health service deal with that? | |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:46 - Mar 19 with 3583 views | lowhouseblue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:22 - Mar 19 by itfcjoe |
We are the only G7 economy that hasn't bounced back in this regard since the pandemic - at one point I presume it was seen as long covid but the numbers are well past that now.
Is it a mental health crisis? Why is it different here and elsewhere as sure our health service isn't *that* much worse |
when you read critiques of thatcher's policies in the '80s a common theme is that unemployment and the resulting inactivity caused ill health and mental illness. i would assume inactivity has just the same effect today - and now we have a benefits system that seems to be locking in that viscous circle. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 12:49 - Mar 19 with 3394 views | DJR |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:46 - Mar 19 by lowhouseblue |
when you read critiques of thatcher's policies in the '80s a common theme is that unemployment and the resulting inactivity caused ill health and mental illness. i would assume inactivity has just the same effect today - and now we have a benefits system that seems to be locking in that viscous circle. |
Interestingly, percentage of the adult working population on sickness etc benefits was higher in the 1980s than it is now.
And there was a deliberate policy of moving people on to them in order to keep the unemployment figures down.
Might there still be an aspect of that driving the policy now, given unemployment is relatively low?
As it is, there are only 800,000 vacancies, many presumably requiring qualifications and experience, so I am not sure those who lose benefits will be able to get jobs, particularly in the more depressed areas.
Indeed, I sense there is an aspect of the hopelessness in such areas that Thatcher produced, working its way down into subsequent generations. | | | |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:16 - Mar 19 with 3273 views | J2BLUE |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:44 - Mar 19 by itfcjoe |
But if 1 in 4 young people have thought about leaving the workforce in the last 12 months for mostly mental health reasons, then how could any mental health service deal with that? |
This is the society we have created.
For the young there are a lack of opportunities, most jobs are low paid and based on retail or customer service and at the end of the month when they get their salary it's barely enough to live on. House prices are going up faster than they can save a deposit. Many are told they cannot afford a mortgage while paying more in rent than a mortgage would cost.
It's not really surprising that when people get on benefits they don't want to come off and return to what is quite a miserable existence for many. Just to be clear, I am trying to say I sympathise with them and feel empathy rather than suggesting people are lazy scroungers. I do not think the vast majority of people are but they need hope. They need to know working isn't just a hamster wheel where you never get anywhere and barely survive because if you get the basics covered why bother running on the wheel for no gain? Not to mention the costs saved from not travelling to work and the freedom of not being tied to a company for 40 hours a week.
There are plenty of videos on Youtube of people just saying no more to that sort of life and quitting. They want some hope, something to build towards and the ability to make life comfortable with hard work.
It's demoralising being low paid knowing the company is owned by shareholders or billionaires. I remember working for Travelex earning absolute peanuts while the company (majority share) was bought by a billionaire.
I have worked in crap low paid jobs having to commute each day and having to force myself to walk through the door each day. It's horrible. I now work 32 hours a week from my home office earning more than i've earnt before. I hated working for Travelex. I wonder if I would be on benefits right now if I had still been there when the pandemic started because after being furloughed I don't think I would have ever gone back. In fact, when I left Travelex, I quit with no job to go to. I had reached my limit. If people are in the same boat and struggling to get by I can see why people are anxious and depressed. We need to change things. Increase the tax free allowance and fund it with a wealth tax. There are ways to fix this without the witch hunt.
I realise much of the above is a response to points you didn't actually make so not targeted at you. Just general musings. | |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:28 - Mar 19 with 3230 views | Ryorry |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:06 - Mar 19 by itfcjoe |
Wherever you set the limit it is about balancing the amount of people who falsely claim, versus those who will now no longer be able to get what they need. Labour must know that there will now be some egregious examples of people not getting what they need over the next few months but must presume it will be worth it.
Ultimately though there is a major issue with more and more disability or ling term sick claimants going up massively since the pandemic especially amongst the young. There must be lots of factors to it - but it can't continue as it is both for long term size of the benefits bill and young people never being able to work because that is a doomed existence.
By cutting out of work benefits but not disability/sickness benefits it seems people have just migrated across to the more generous side of things - but taxpayers can't afford to see young people not working forever, it's just not fair in general. |
Labour’s moves here are incredibly short-sighted and compartmentalised.
Depriving people of PIP so that, eg, they aggravate their health problems by DIYing instead of being able to pay for a carer to do the job, will simply end up as an increased burden on the NHS. Eg someone with spinal disability and arthritis having to put their own socks on, resulting in more disc trouble and NHS visits/operation.
Taking easily implemented measures v Covid and other viruses, like masking up and better ventilation in NHS buildings, would also help hugely. Long Covid is very much a thing, unfortunately. |  |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:31 - Mar 19 with 3207 views | leitrimblue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:16 - Mar 19 by J2BLUE |
This is the society we have created.
For the young there are a lack of opportunities, most jobs are low paid and based on retail or customer service and at the end of the month when they get their salary it's barely enough to live on. House prices are going up faster than they can save a deposit. Many are told they cannot afford a mortgage while paying more in rent than a mortgage would cost.
It's not really surprising that when people get on benefits they don't want to come off and return to what is quite a miserable existence for many. Just to be clear, I am trying to say I sympathise with them and feel empathy rather than suggesting people are lazy scroungers. I do not think the vast majority of people are but they need hope. They need to know working isn't just a hamster wheel where you never get anywhere and barely survive because if you get the basics covered why bother running on the wheel for no gain? Not to mention the costs saved from not travelling to work and the freedom of not being tied to a company for 40 hours a week.
There are plenty of videos on Youtube of people just saying no more to that sort of life and quitting. They want some hope, something to build towards and the ability to make life comfortable with hard work.
It's demoralising being low paid knowing the company is owned by shareholders or billionaires. I remember working for Travelex earning absolute peanuts while the company (majority share) was bought by a billionaire.
I have worked in crap low paid jobs having to commute each day and having to force myself to walk through the door each day. It's horrible. I now work 32 hours a week from my home office earning more than i've earnt before. I hated working for Travelex. I wonder if I would be on benefits right now if I had still been there when the pandemic started because after being furloughed I don't think I would have ever gone back. In fact, when I left Travelex, I quit with no job to go to. I had reached my limit. If people are in the same boat and struggling to get by I can see why people are anxious and depressed. We need to change things. Increase the tax free allowance and fund it with a wealth tax. There are ways to fix this without the witch hunt.
I realise much of the above is a response to points you didn't actually make so not targeted at you. Just general musings. |
That's an excellent post |  | | |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:34 - Mar 19 with 3180 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:08 - Mar 19 by J2BLUE |
Did Lammy then stand by his principles and resign? |
Of course not J2 I was just trying to cut one of them a little slack! | |
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| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:41 - Mar 19 with 3135 views | Blueschev |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 10:08 - Mar 19 by J2BLUE |
Did Lammy then stand by his principles and resign? |
Kind of, he clarified his position once he remembered that he didn't have any. |  | | |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:51 - Mar 19 with 3082 views | lowhouseblue |
| What I can't figure out is.... on 13:16 - Mar 19 by J2BLUE |
This is the society we have created.
For the young there are a lack of opportunities, most jobs are low paid and based on retail or customer service and at the end of the month when they get their salary it's barely enough to live on. House prices are going up faster than they can save a deposit. Many are told they cannot afford a mortgage while paying more in rent than a mortgage would cost.
It's not really surprising that when people get on benefits they don't want to come off and return to what is quite a miserable existence for many. Just to be clear, I am trying to say I sympathise with them and feel empathy rather than suggesting people are lazy scroungers. I do not think the vast majority of people are but they need hope. They need to know working isn't just a hamster wheel where you never get anywhere and barely survive because if you get the basics covered why bother running on the wheel for no gain? Not to mention the costs saved from not travelling to work and the freedom of not being tied to a company for 40 hours a week.
There are plenty of videos on Youtube of people just saying no more to that sort of life and quitting. They want some hope, something to build towards and the ability to make life comfortable with hard work.
It's demoralising being low paid knowing the company is owned by shareholders or billionaires. I remember working for Travelex earning absolute peanuts while the company (majority share) was bought by a billionaire.
I have worked in crap low paid jobs having to commute each day and having to force myself to walk through the door each day. It's horrible. I now work 32 hours a week from my home office earning more than i've earnt before. I hated working for Travelex. I wonder if I would be on benefits right now if I had still been there when the pandemic started because after being furloughed I don't think I would have ever gone back. In fact, when I left Travelex, I quit with no job to go to. I had reached my limit. If people are in the same boat and struggling to get by I can see why people are anxious and depressed. We need to change things. Increase the tax free allowance and fund it with a wealth tax. There are ways to fix this without the witch hunt.
I realise much of the above is a response to points you didn't actually make so not targeted at you. Just general musings. |
what you say about housing feels to me to be the distinctive thing about the current situation. relative to 15 years ago the % of under 35s who are home owners has fallen by a third. overall home ownership has fallen much less. but both figures are still high relative to the 1970s and before. comparing under 35s to their parents, home ownership at that age is now less likely - comparing them to their grandparents it's about the same. but equally important is the big decline in access to social renting.
but beyond housing much of what you say about work has always been true. for a significant number (may be a majority) work has always been about paying the bills rather than self-fulfilment or self-realisation or enjoyment anything positive like that. it has always for many been a hamster wheel and a case of getting to the end of the week. if anything with the decline of assembly line work, heavy manufacturing, etc the work environment has improved and some of the most de-humanising work has gone. so why are more people today seemingly much more likely to say 'no' to that compared to the past? and is it right that the state / welfare system gives them the choice of saying 'no'? someone has to do the crap jobs - we all consume those goods and services and use retain etc - and particularly when they are relatively young and haven't yet been able to progress beyond them? it has always throughout history, for most people, been an absolute luxury to work because they enjoy it. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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