| The Spring Statement 07:23 - Mar 26 with 6976 views | onceablue |
I have never been this excited in my life
I wonder what Gems ‘Racheal from Accounts’ will come up with today.
If you receive any kind of benefits watch out. If you are a pensioner on benefits then you are really screwed
Unfortunately Labour made too many bold promises to get into power. They didn’t have to do that. The Tories on the back of their performance were a beaten party
Something is guaranteed dear old Racheal will mention the 22M black hole.
My guess is she will mention it at least 10 times.
Higher or lower?
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| The Spring Statement on 11:10 - Mar 26 with 1151 views | DJR |
| The Spring Statement on 10:12 - Mar 26 by Churchman |
There never was a £22bn ‘black hole’. They did as all govt do. ‘We knew nothing until we saw the books’. A load of rubbish. I know for a fact they knew what was what long before the corrupt, useless tories were kicked out (possibly and deservedly forever).
But that the previous administration was so dreadful doesn’t give them the justification to run through the traditional new (9 months in now) governments’ playbook of:
1. Previous govt were responsible for all woes including upsetting the Klingons.
2. lied about the figures,
3. It’s all down to the civil service,
4. Outside factors,
5. Let’s go abroad to look statesmanlike in a snappy suit because we are afraid of being kicked out. |
Both parties engaged in a conspiracy of silence in relation to the state of the public finances, the position of which were made much worse by the Tories' £20 billion cuts to NI.
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/what-conspiracy-silence-surrounding-choices-facing-n |  | | |
| The Spring Statement on 11:12 - Mar 26 with 1146 views | giant_stow |
| The Spring Statement on 10:49 - Mar 26 by Blueschev |
"Unfortunately Labour made too many bold promises to get into power." - That is complete nonsense. Never in my lifetime has a political party ran such a vague, non-committal campaign.
You hate Labour, we get it, but don't just make up rubbish. |
In fairness, he may be chatting about the promises not to raise personal taxes. Then again, maybe you're right and it's a general rant. |  |
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| The Spring Statement on 11:22 - Mar 26 with 1108 views | bluelagos |
| The Spring Statement on 10:58 - Mar 26 by Guthrum |
Basic rate of taxation has come down since the 1970s, from 30%+ to 25% to 20%. Higher rates are now a flat 40% up to a very high number, which they weren't prior to the end of the 1980s (scaling up to 60% or even 83%). So the Income Tax burden on workers is significantly lower than it was decades ago.
Basic rate Capital Gains Tax has fallen from 30% to 18% since the late 1980s. |
All offset by stealth taxes - the tax thresholds not rising recently, VAT, tax on fuel etc.
The % of GDP collected as tax is the highest in decades. |  |
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| The Spring Statement on 11:27 - Mar 26 with 1092 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The Spring Statement on 11:05 - Mar 26 by Churchman |
They were actually physically in the Treasury before the election. People I used to work with saw them, were marginally involved. Months before. It’s how it works and always has. Everything that was known at the time was relayed to them.
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/ps22bn-black-hole-was-obvious-anyone-who-dared-look
But before we get to blinded by that favourite govt smokescreen, numbers, some context. £22bn represents about 10% of NHS, social care budget in an economy of £3.5tn gdp. OBR reckoned the estimated cost of Brexit in 2021 was £32bn pa against a net cost of EU membership of £13.2bn. Covid cost between £300bn and £400bn, so let’s not focus too much on debatable black holes.
Focus more on repairing some of the damage that continues to be caused by ludicrous Brexit and the threat from Trump, Putin and co. In other words, repair and build relationships and focus on what has to be done, not keep blaming previous criminals and incompetents. The latter serves no purpose. |
You just said "There never was a £22bn ‘black hole’" and after I showed the evidence from BBC Full Fact you've switched to, "yeah, well it's not that much in the grand scheme of things". That might well be a fair point but not what I was replying to.
No, you can't blame the previous criminals and incompetents forever, but they are obviously a huge reason why the economy is in the state it's in.
"Everything that was known at the time was relayed to them." No it wasn't, not according to Full Fact and the director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies. I think I'll go with the experts rather than what some people you used to work with, who by your own admission were marginally involved, think they saw. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The Spring Statement on 11:30 - Mar 26 with 1076 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The Spring Statement on 10:39 - Mar 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's there in my link that you obviously didn't bother to read before downarrowing.
If you disagree with the BBC's Full Fact service, who look at all the independent studies and experts, then there's nothing more I can do for you. |
Brilliant debating portmanking. I present the facts from experts and you simply downarrow and run away. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The Spring Statement on 11:35 - Mar 26 with 1056 views | MattinLondon |
| The Spring Statement on 08:09 - Mar 26 by onceablue |
So when the Labour Party wrote their note
‘Good luck there is no money left’
I suppose you considered that funny? |
A political savvy chap likes you knows full well that messages like that have been left by outgoing ministers (of all parties) for a long long time.
Are you denying this? [Post edited 26 Mar 11:36]
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| The Spring Statement on 11:42 - Mar 26 with 1032 views | portmanking |
| The Spring Statement on 11:30 - Mar 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Brilliant debating portmanking. I present the facts from experts and you simply downarrow and run away. |
I presented facts on the decline of our economy, to which you 'simply downarrowed' too. | | | |
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| The Spring Statement on 12:11 - Mar 26 with 965 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The Spring Statement on 11:42 - Mar 26 by portmanking |
I presented facts on the decline of our economy, to which you 'simply downarrowed' too. |
I downarrowed the idea that "Labour had all that time to prepare for power" - you don't spend all your time in opposition (especially for 14 years) preparing for power, and a lot of it you don't know until you get in, as we've discussed. I also downarrowed your claim that any potential recession would simply be "thanks to their first Budget".
I made no comment on your twitter link. You did, however, comment on my assertion that the £22bn black hole was real and unknown, and when I showed independent facts you just downarrowed it and disappeared. And here we are. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The Spring Statement on 12:36 - Mar 26 with 907 views | NeedhamChris |
| The Spring Statement on 12:11 - Mar 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I downarrowed the idea that "Labour had all that time to prepare for power" - you don't spend all your time in opposition (especially for 14 years) preparing for power, and a lot of it you don't know until you get in, as we've discussed. I also downarrowed your claim that any potential recession would simply be "thanks to their first Budget".
I made no comment on your twitter link. You did, however, comment on my assertion that the £22bn black hole was real and unknown, and when I showed independent facts you just downarrowed it and disappeared. And here we are. |
In reality it's a mixture of both isn't it? Was there a £22bn black hole, yes. Is it disingenuous to suggest that all of it came as a surprise, also yes. | |
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| The Spring Statement on 12:41 - Mar 26 with 870 views | Leaky |
| The Spring Statement on 11:22 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
All offset by stealth taxes - the tax thresholds not rising recently, VAT, tax on fuel etc.
The % of GDP collected as tax is the highest in decades. |
Agree with this, maybe its the way its spent thats the problem. |  | | |
| The Spring Statement on 12:46 - Mar 26 with 839 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The Spring Statement on 12:36 - Mar 26 by NeedhamChris |
In reality it's a mixture of both isn't it? Was there a £22bn black hole, yes. Is it disingenuous to suggest that all of it came as a surprise, also yes. |
The size of it probably was a surprise. But how much is neither here nor there. The larger point is the economy was fecked, and even more fecked than the fecked they thought it was, and it will take a long time to get it back on track, never mind fix it. 8 months is nothing, particularly when you were dealt a terrible hand. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The Spring Statement on 12:51 - Mar 26 with 806 views | NthQldITFC |
| The Spring Statement on 12:36 - Mar 26 by NeedhamChris |
In reality it's a mixture of both isn't it? Was there a £22bn black hole, yes. Is it disingenuous to suggest that all of it came as a surprise, also yes. |
Point of order: You can't talk about all of a hole as opposed to part of a hole; a hole is a hole, and the whole of the hole is no more a hole than part of a hole is a hole, if we're being wholly accurate.
B Woolley, DoAA. |  |
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| The Spring Statement on 13:01 - Mar 26 with 773 views | mellowblue |
She might be fairly inept, time will tell for certain, but at least do her the dignity of spelling her name right ! | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 13:03 - Mar 26 with 763 views | Churchman |
| The Spring Statement on 11:27 - Mar 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You just said "There never was a £22bn ‘black hole’" and after I showed the evidence from BBC Full Fact you've switched to, "yeah, well it's not that much in the grand scheme of things". That might well be a fair point but not what I was replying to.
No, you can't blame the previous criminals and incompetents forever, but they are obviously a huge reason why the economy is in the state it's in.
"Everything that was known at the time was relayed to them." No it wasn't, not according to Full Fact and the director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies. I think I'll go with the experts rather than what some people you used to work with, who by your own admission were marginally involved, think they saw. |
First paragraph - there was not a black hole in the way the government presented it.
Yes, of course the previous scum are accountable for what they did just as all the incompetent governments this country has had to endure for decades. Fortunately the tories are finished forever in my view. But they are not accountable for actions or inactions of the past nine months or going forward - and that is what matters to me.
I can only relate what I know. I’ve relayed it in the most basic of detail free ways, mainly because it’s very boring. With regards to your last paragraph, we are still free to believe what wish so each to their own. I’ll leave it there. |  | | |
| The Spring Statement on 13:06 - Mar 26 with 756 views | bluejacko |
Just a quick question,how can you make a statement when the measures laid out in her budget are not implemented yet? | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 13:06 - Mar 26 with 753 views | mellowblue |
| The Spring Statement on 12:11 - Mar 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I downarrowed the idea that "Labour had all that time to prepare for power" - you don't spend all your time in opposition (especially for 14 years) preparing for power, and a lot of it you don't know until you get in, as we've discussed. I also downarrowed your claim that any potential recession would simply be "thanks to their first Budget".
I made no comment on your twitter link. You did, however, comment on my assertion that the £22bn black hole was real and unknown, and when I showed independent facts you just downarrowed it and disappeared. And here we are. |
Strewth, they saw enough mistakes made to learn what to avoid doing. Most governments in exile, so to speak, prioritise how to get back in and what to do once there. If there is a snap election at anytime, they have to have some sort of manifesto in existence. These guys are power mad. it is what they strive for. | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 13:13 - Mar 26 with 707 views | Blueschev |
| The Spring Statement on 12:46 - Mar 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The size of it probably was a surprise. But how much is neither here nor there. The larger point is the economy was fecked, and even more fecked than the fecked they thought it was, and it will take a long time to get it back on track, never mind fix it. 8 months is nothing, particularly when you were dealt a terrible hand. |
This government won't fix the broken economy by continuing the failed policies of the last awful government, which is essentially what they're doing. They're awful, just marginally less awful than the last lot. The future is very worrying. |  | | |
| The Spring Statement on 13:37 - Mar 26 with 642 views | portmanking |
So, essentially, it's thrown all of its eggs in the construction basket.
1.3m homes built in 5 years, which is *never* going to happen. 700 homes a day from now... IFS just shot down Darren Jones down too regarding fiddling the numbers, suggesting it's actually 400,000 properties down on its initial manifesto pledge.
How many hundreds of thousands of these homes will go to hard-working, British born and bred families? If it was the case that the bulk were to go to the working and middle class UK families that need it, I'd be all for it. But I'm wholly, wholly sceptical. | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 13:40 - Mar 26 with 614 views | bluejacko |
| The Spring Statement on 13:37 - Mar 26 by portmanking |
So, essentially, it's thrown all of its eggs in the construction basket.
1.3m homes built in 5 years, which is *never* going to happen. 700 homes a day from now... IFS just shot down Darren Jones down too regarding fiddling the numbers, suggesting it's actually 400,000 properties down on its initial manifesto pledge.
How many hundreds of thousands of these homes will go to hard-working, British born and bred families? If it was the case that the bulk were to go to the working and middle class UK families that need it, I'd be all for it. But I'm wholly, wholly sceptical. |
How many of these families will be able to afford a house even (doubtful) if they are actually built? | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 13:42 - Mar 26 with 600 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The Spring Statement on 13:03 - Mar 26 by Churchman |
First paragraph - there was not a black hole in the way the government presented it.
Yes, of course the previous scum are accountable for what they did just as all the incompetent governments this country has had to endure for decades. Fortunately the tories are finished forever in my view. But they are not accountable for actions or inactions of the past nine months or going forward - and that is what matters to me.
I can only relate what I know. I’ve relayed it in the most basic of detail free ways, mainly because it’s very boring. With regards to your last paragraph, we are still free to believe what wish so each to their own. I’ll leave it there. |
So you're denying "Full Fact and the director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies" then?
Sorry got no more time to reply as I'm off on holiday, but I don't think we're going to get anywhere anyway if you're just going to say no to independent facts and analysis. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The Spring Statement on 13:43 - Mar 26 with 595 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The Spring Statement on 13:37 - Mar 26 by portmanking |
So, essentially, it's thrown all of its eggs in the construction basket.
1.3m homes built in 5 years, which is *never* going to happen. 700 homes a day from now... IFS just shot down Darren Jones down too regarding fiddling the numbers, suggesting it's actually 400,000 properties down on its initial manifesto pledge.
How many hundreds of thousands of these homes will go to hard-working, British born and bred families? If it was the case that the bulk were to go to the working and middle class UK families that need it, I'd be all for it. But I'm wholly, wholly sceptical. |
British born and bred families?
Think that's all we need to say about you. I'm done. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The Spring Statement on 13:45 - Mar 26 with 584 views | portmanking |
| The Spring Statement on 13:40 - Mar 26 by bluejacko |
How many of these families will be able to afford a house even (doubtful) if they are actually built? |
Well, quite. I very much hope they can. Otherwise I imagine the taxpayer will be footing the bill for many to be occupied by another demographic... | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 13:47 - Mar 26 with 583 views | portmanking |
| The Spring Statement on 13:43 - Mar 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
British born and bred families?
Think that's all we need to say about you. I'm done. |
I'm sorry? You have an issue with me wanting new homes to be prioritised for British people and young families working hard to save a deposit and get security? | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 13:47 - Mar 26 with 579 views | MattinLondon |
| The Spring Statement on 13:43 - Mar 26 by The_Flashing_Smile |
British born and bred families?
Think that's all we need to say about you. I'm done. |
To be fair to that poster, I dint think he meant or inferred anything racist in that particular sentence.
May I respectfully suggest that you and others step away from this thread, and if possible, calm down before returning to it. | | | |
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