| The Spring Statement 07:23 - Mar 26 with 6988 views | onceablue |
I have never been this excited in my life
I wonder what Gems ‘Racheal from Accounts’ will come up with today.
If you receive any kind of benefits watch out. If you are a pensioner on benefits then you are really screwed
Unfortunately Labour made too many bold promises to get into power. They didn’t have to do that. The Tories on the back of their performance were a beaten party
Something is guaranteed dear old Racheal will mention the 22M black hole.
My guess is she will mention it at least 10 times.
Higher or lower?
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| The Spring Statement on 14:04 - Mar 26 with 1099 views | NeedhamChris |
| The Spring Statement on 13:47 - Mar 26 by portmanking |
I'm sorry? You have an issue with me wanting new homes to be prioritised for British people and young families working hard to save a deposit and get security? |
I don't love the 'born and bred' - I think that crosses a line a little bit and undermines the conversation I think you're trying to have.
That being said, reaction a bit confrontational too. As others have said maybe one to take the emotion out of before too many fiery responses are posted, but I don't think a country prioritising it's own citizens is quite the inflammatory take that some might make out.
There are a fair few on here who would deny (or ignore) the existence of any negative impact of immigration, who will happily jump on any reason not to engage. | |
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| The Spring Statement on 14:05 - Mar 26 with 1095 views | itfcjoe |
| The Spring Statement on 13:47 - Mar 26 by portmanking |
I'm sorry? You have an issue with me wanting new homes to be prioritised for British people and young families working hard to save a deposit and get security? |
If they do build the 1.3 million homes, which I'd be sceptical about, then the vast majority will got o British born and bred people - whether that is as owner-occupiers or social/private renters. |  |
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| The Spring Statement on 14:06 - Mar 26 with 1087 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The Spring Statement on 08:25 - Mar 26 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Context is key.
It is surely quicker and cheaper in the short term to get people treated in private hospitals where there is spare capacity. I’d rather be sent to one now than wait 6 months for the NHS to procure additional staff, equipment, beds etc. in the medium term the NHS should move away from outsourcing, but the state of waiting lists now means we need to get people treated and back to work. |
Oh I understand now, so as well as letting private firms hoover up cash from the public purse in the short term Labour will be investing in new facilities, wards and beds for the long term in those same areas.
Should I hold my breath? |  |
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| The Spring Statement on 14:08 - Mar 26 with 1059 views | portmanking |
| The Spring Statement on 14:04 - Mar 26 by NeedhamChris |
I don't love the 'born and bred' - I think that crosses a line a little bit and undermines the conversation I think you're trying to have.
That being said, reaction a bit confrontational too. As others have said maybe one to take the emotion out of before too many fiery responses are posted, but I don't think a country prioritising it's own citizens is quite the inflammatory take that some might make out.
There are a fair few on here who would deny (or ignore) the existence of any negative impact of immigration, who will happily jump on any reason not to engage. |
The very fact a fair few consider prioritising our own citizens as 'inflammatory' is, in of itself, a big factor in where we are as a nation. | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 14:10 - Mar 26 with 1040 views | Mullet |
| The Spring Statement on 14:08 - Mar 26 by portmanking |
The very fact a fair few consider prioritising our own citizens as 'inflammatory' is, in of itself, a big factor in where we are as a nation. |
Shouldn’t it just be those in need? |  |
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| The Spring Statement on 14:12 - Mar 26 with 1024 views | NeedhamChris |
| The Spring Statement on 14:10 - Mar 26 by Mullet |
Shouldn’t it just be those in need? |
Ah, a unilateral open borders experiment then? That'll end well. | |
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| The Spring Statement on 14:14 - Mar 26 with 1004 views | portmanking |
| The Spring Statement on 14:10 - Mar 26 by Mullet |
Shouldn’t it just be those in need? |
Why would we *not* prioritise our own citizens and give them the security and confidence to own their own properties and offer hope for the future? | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 14:27 - Mar 26 with 954 views | Mullet |
| The Spring Statement on 14:14 - Mar 26 by portmanking |
Why would we *not* prioritise our own citizens and give them the security and confidence to own their own properties and offer hope for the future? |
I just don’t see the need for the phrase“one of our own” as an implication that some people who get help don’t deserve it because of things they can’t help. It’s a very Victorian “deserving” and undeserving poor type mentality which needs to be moved away from.
Instead of class we seem to be moving towards an immigration bias these days as demonstrated by the first reply. But ultimately the housing built would go to British people as they are here and waiting for it.
This idea they are pushed aside because of immigration and not greed is a pernicious myth which seems to block these sorts of discussions. | |
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| The Spring Statement on 14:30 - Mar 26 with 943 views | NeedhamChris |
| The Spring Statement on 14:27 - Mar 26 by Mullet |
I just don’t see the need for the phrase“one of our own” as an implication that some people who get help don’t deserve it because of things they can’t help. It’s a very Victorian “deserving” and undeserving poor type mentality which needs to be moved away from.
Instead of class we seem to be moving towards an immigration bias these days as demonstrated by the first reply. But ultimately the housing built would go to British people as they are here and waiting for it.
This idea they are pushed aside because of immigration and not greed is a pernicious myth which seems to block these sorts of discussions. |
Your last paragraph completely ignores the reality of social housing stock and occupation in the UK.
You can make an argument that it's okay that the impact on housing is acceptable because of the overall net benefit of immigration, but denying it's existence because it doesn't suit your ideological worldview is a bad faith way to engage. [Post edited 26 Mar 14:39]
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| The Spring Statement on 14:38 - Mar 26 with 903 views | Mullet |
| The Spring Statement on 14:30 - Mar 26 by NeedhamChris |
Your last paragraph completely ignores the reality of social housing stock and occupation in the UK.
You can make an argument that it's okay that the impact on housing is acceptable because of the overall net benefit of immigration, but denying it's existence because it doesn't suit your ideological worldview is a bad faith way to engage. [Post edited 26 Mar 14:39]
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I could if I had the slightest clue what you’re on about. | |
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| The Spring Statement on 14:39 - Mar 26 with 894 views | portmanking |
| The Spring Statement on 14:27 - Mar 26 by Mullet |
I just don’t see the need for the phrase“one of our own” as an implication that some people who get help don’t deserve it because of things they can’t help. It’s a very Victorian “deserving” and undeserving poor type mentality which needs to be moved away from.
Instead of class we seem to be moving towards an immigration bias these days as demonstrated by the first reply. But ultimately the housing built would go to British people as they are here and waiting for it.
This idea they are pushed aside because of immigration and not greed is a pernicious myth which seems to block these sorts of discussions. |
Approximately 40% of British households can't afford to buy an average 2/3 bed home. That's where these so-called 1.3 million new homes need to be unlocked at advantageous rates.
Giving millennials and Gen Zers - whatever class they may be - a sense of aspiration and ambition should be our number-one priority as a nation IMO. But we're looking at 2.5 million+ additional immigrants reaching these shores over the next 4-5 years, which simply isn't feasible when 4-5 million households containing British citizens are struggling with rent let alone mortgage deposits. Where do you draw the line? It's not racism. The numbers simply don't stack up as a creaking, island nation. | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 14:42 - Mar 26 with 875 views | Herbivore |
| The Spring Statement on 14:30 - Mar 26 by NeedhamChris |
Your last paragraph completely ignores the reality of social housing stock and occupation in the UK.
You can make an argument that it's okay that the impact on housing is acceptable because of the overall net benefit of immigration, but denying it's existence because it doesn't suit your ideological worldview is a bad faith way to engage. [Post edited 26 Mar 14:39]
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Below is an interesting link on the reality of housing stock as it relates to those migrating to the UK versus those born here. People born outside the UK are underrepresented in both social housing and owner occupier categories and overrepresented in the private rent sector. If people have no recourse to public funds, which is true of a significant number of "immigrants", they aren't eligible for social housing.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-and-housing-i |  |
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| The Spring Statement on 14:53 - Mar 26 with 851 views | Mullet |
| The Spring Statement on 14:39 - Mar 26 by portmanking |
Approximately 40% of British households can't afford to buy an average 2/3 bed home. That's where these so-called 1.3 million new homes need to be unlocked at advantageous rates.
Giving millennials and Gen Zers - whatever class they may be - a sense of aspiration and ambition should be our number-one priority as a nation IMO. But we're looking at 2.5 million+ additional immigrants reaching these shores over the next 4-5 years, which simply isn't feasible when 4-5 million households containing British citizens are struggling with rent let alone mortgage deposits. Where do you draw the line? It's not racism. The numbers simply don't stack up as a creaking, island nation. |
I agree about Gen Z and North Suffolk is a prime example of an area riddled with second home owners and land barons driving up prices, whilst NIMBYing out development and infrastructure- so the stock is unsuitable and unattainable for many of them.
Immigration isn’t the evil in play in these situations so making it a focus seems to be completely pointless and ill intentioned. We are seeing more people in a spiral of exorbitant rents and rates being stuck saving longer and harder to get their own property.
Who is at fault for that and how do we tackle it? Unless we are suggesting we take over hotels and put the 20 somethings in there, the immigration debate is less and less relevant. | |
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| The Spring Statement on 15:10 - Mar 26 with 807 views | bsw72 |
| The Spring Statement on 14:39 - Mar 26 by portmanking |
Approximately 40% of British households can't afford to buy an average 2/3 bed home. That's where these so-called 1.3 million new homes need to be unlocked at advantageous rates.
Giving millennials and Gen Zers - whatever class they may be - a sense of aspiration and ambition should be our number-one priority as a nation IMO. But we're looking at 2.5 million+ additional immigrants reaching these shores over the next 4-5 years, which simply isn't feasible when 4-5 million households containing British citizens are struggling with rent let alone mortgage deposits. Where do you draw the line? It's not racism. The numbers simply don't stack up as a creaking, island nation. |
I had surgery this time last week on the NHS and received excellent care.
At least half of the medical team I met who looked after me were (at a guess based on accent and use of language) immigrant staff from either Eastern Europe, Southern Asia or the pacific region.
This country needs economic migrants to simply function these days, and not just as employees.
They play a crucial role in driving the UK’s economic growth, particularly through entrepreneurship and innovation. Despite making up less than 15% of the population, they have founded or co-founded 39% of the UK’s 100 fastest-growing companies. They’re also three times more likely to start a business than UK-born residents, with around 15% of immigrants involved in entrepreneurial ventures compared to just 5% of the native population.
In 2021 alone, foreign-born founders launched over 36,000 businesses. These aren’t just numbers — they represent jobs, tax revenue, and the kind of ambition and innovation that keep the UK globally competitive. Removing or restricting this talent pool would be like pulling fuel from an engine and expecting it to keep running. |  | | |
| The Spring Statement on 15:17 - Mar 26 with 773 views | Clapham_Junction |
| The Spring Statement on 08:09 - Mar 26 by onceablue |
So when the Labour Party wrote their note
‘Good luck there is no money left’
I suppose you considered that funny? |
There needs to be an equivalent to Godwin's law for that note. Anyone referring to it (other than to explain the context for the five millionth time) has automatically lost the argument. |  | | |
| The Spring Statement on 16:42 - Mar 26 with 666 views | mellowblue |
| The Spring Statement on 10:58 - Mar 26 by Guthrum |
Basic rate of taxation has come down since the 1970s, from 30%+ to 25% to 20%. Higher rates are now a flat 40% up to a very high number, which they weren't prior to the end of the 1980s (scaling up to 60% or even 83%). So the Income Tax burden on workers is significantly lower than it was decades ago.
Basic rate Capital Gains Tax has fallen from 30% to 18% since the late 1980s. |
VAT has risen by 5% in that timescale (ignoring the split rates of the 70s) and no doubt a whole host of other indirect taxes have had an impact. | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 16:48 - Mar 26 with 641 views | bluelagos |
| The Spring Statement on 16:42 - Mar 26 by mellowblue |
VAT has risen by 5% in that timescale (ignoring the split rates of the 70s) and no doubt a whole host of other indirect taxes have had an impact. |
Basic VAT has gone from 8% to 20% since the late 70s. So almost everything we spend has another 12% off to the govt. A huge amount of tax that we all pay without really noticing (hence why they are called stealth taxes) |  |
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| The Spring Statement on 16:49 - Mar 26 with 636 views | mellowblue |
| The Spring Statement on 08:41 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
We have the highest tax burden for decades - so not sure why you think tax hasn't kept pace with inflation.
That is why so many people are fed up - taxes are high and public services on their knees. We pay top dollar and get falling apart roads/NHS.
Utter sh1tshow of a legacy from 14 years of Tory govt. |
a sh1t show as you say, but a balanced view is that Labour inherited a tax burden of 27% from the Major government, and bought it up to 33%. The tories then bought it up to the 37.whatever mainly post- Covid before they vacated the premises. So they are both as bad, really. | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 16:56 - Mar 26 with 623 views | bluelagos |
| The Spring Statement on 16:49 - Mar 26 by mellowblue |
a sh1t show as you say, but a balanced view is that Labour inherited a tax burden of 27% from the Major government, and bought it up to 33%. The tories then bought it up to the 37.whatever mainly post- Covid before they vacated the premises. So they are both as bad, really. |
If you only judge a govt by the amount of taxes they raise then yes, they are as bad as each other.
I don't. I look at the quality of the services (like the NHS) and reforms as well as foreign policy and things like law and order, policy towards refugees etc.
So no, I don't for a minute believe the Blair/Brown govts were as bad as Cameron/Johnson/Truss govts. | |
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| The Spring Statement on 17:06 - Mar 26 with 603 views | Mullet |
| The Spring Statement on 16:56 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
If you only judge a govt by the amount of taxes they raise then yes, they are as bad as each other.
I don't. I look at the quality of the services (like the NHS) and reforms as well as foreign policy and things like law and order, policy towards refugees etc.
So no, I don't for a minute believe the Blair/Brown govts were as bad as Cameron/Johnson/Truss govts. |
Given that much of the poverty and social ills related to it came about under the pretence of “austerity” I’m baffled people would contest it.
Education, social care, NHS were all better under Blair and whilst imperfect, pushing in a much better direction than now. | |
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| The Spring Statement on 17:25 - Mar 26 with 574 views | management |
| The Spring Statement on 07:40 - Mar 26 by Keno |
Surely you be congratulating her on bringing inflation back down |
I seem to recall in July Inflation was 2.2% dropped to 1.7% in October and is now 2.8%. You can make up your own minds as to deserves credit for October's figures and equally who merits a down mark for today's 2.8%. | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 17:33 - Mar 26 with 559 views | mellowblue |
| The Spring Statement on 16:56 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
If you only judge a govt by the amount of taxes they raise then yes, they are as bad as each other.
I don't. I look at the quality of the services (like the NHS) and reforms as well as foreign policy and things like law and order, policy towards refugees etc.
So no, I don't for a minute believe the Blair/Brown govts were as bad as Cameron/Johnson/Truss govts. |
I accept that. It is what they do with the money that counts in the end. We seemed to be heading in a better direction in the earlier days of the Blair Brown times. plenty of focus on health and education. They inherited a decent budgetary position, which is something you can not say for either the last or current government. Both inherited poor situations. | | | |
| The Spring Statement on 17:33 - Mar 26 with 559 views | NthQldITFC |
| The Spring Statement on 17:25 - Mar 26 by management |
I seem to recall in July Inflation was 2.2% dropped to 1.7% in October and is now 2.8%. You can make up your own minds as to deserves credit for October's figures and equally who merits a down mark for today's 2.8%. |
Amazing how it goes down at the end of one 'government' and up at the start of another, innit? |  |
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| The Spring Statement on 17:38 - Mar 26 with 544 views | DJR |
All this talk of working people. What about us slackers? |  | | |
| The Spring Statement on 18:18 - Mar 26 with 494 views | DJR |
I wonder what Torsten Bell (now a Labour minister but until recently CEO of the Resolution Foundation) makes of this.
"The Resolution Foundation have declared that Rachel Reeves is wrong to balance the books on the backs of low-income families.
They fear that the “rushed welfare changes” will leave 3.2 million families £1,700 worse off on average, and risk causing “significant damage” to many families’ living standards.
They argue that the chancellor did not need to concentrate the pain on welface cuts. Extending the freeze in personal tax thresholds by just a single year would have saved almost as much (£3.9bn in 2029-30) and would have been shared far more widely across 24 million households, they say.
Ruth Curtice, chief executive at the Resolution Foundation, warns that the living standards pain this decade could be even worse than in the 2010s:
“Having set her new fiscal rules only last autumn, and faced with rising debt interest costs and a weaker outlook for the public finances, Rachel Reeves had little choice but to make a downbeat Spring Statement.
“But while the Chancellor was right to balance the books, she was wrong to do so on the backs of low-to-middle income families, on whom two-thirds of the welfare cuts will fall. Over three million households will be worse off as a result of welfare changes.
“Major cuts to Universal Credit were made so late in the day that the OBR was unable to assess them, suggesting that long-term change is playing second fiddle to short-term savings. This approach to welfare reform that rarely ends well for individuals or the Government.
“The £3.6 billion trimming of departmental spending is a far cry from the austerity of the 2010s. But it is not pain-free either – crucial public services like courts, prisons and local government will feel the strain of reduced funding in the second half of this Parliament.
“The Government’s welcome ambition to kickstart growth got closer to reality today, with planning reforms set to boost GDP in the coming years. But the outlook still looks bleak. Much has been made of the living standards pain Britain experienced during the 2010s, but the 2020s are still on track to be even worse.”
[Resolution Foundation’s focus is on improving living standards for those on low-to-middle incomes] | | | |
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