| Casey report on grooming gangs 06:53 - Jun 17 with 5220 views | bluelagos |
So many issues raised but for me, the most appalling aspect is that thousands of victims were themselves given cautions by the police.
Children, abused, raped and then when they spoke out, criminalised by a justice system that was supposed to protect them.
Wonder how many of those involved will be held to account? Think we all know the answer to that. |  |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:07 - Jun 17 with 2524 views | Swansea_Blue |
I’m sure they will accept full responsibility for any systematic failures and any officers or leaders found of wrong doing will be held accountable.
Know where I can buy some magic beans?
If we’ve learnt any lessons from other large miscarriages of justice (and I’m not convinced we have), it should be that the victims are to listened to and put at the heart of whatever happens from now on. Any that recommendations are actually acted on and not kicked into the long grass (Grenfell, Hillsborough, etc). |  |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:10 - Jun 17 with 2515 views | Bluecoin |
There will be social workers, teachers, councillors, politicians and police who are hopefully named, shamed, and jailed. The public demand accountability, and will get it.
And never forget, Labour voted against this enquiry. They don't want it despite what they are saying now. Don't be gaslit. |  | | |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:12 - Jun 17 with 2497 views | Benters |
It will run much deeper than just the Police.
I doubt the peasants will never know the truth of who is guilty. |  |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:13 - Jun 17 with 2478 views | Benters |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:10 - Jun 17 by Bluecoin |
There will be social workers, teachers, councillors, politicians and police who are hopefully named, shamed, and jailed. The public demand accountability, and will get it.
And never forget, Labour voted against this enquiry. They don't want it despite what they are saying now. Don't be gaslit. |
I hope you are right. | |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:22 - Jun 17 with 2429 views | tcblue |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:10 - Jun 17 by Bluecoin |
There will be social workers, teachers, councillors, politicians and police who are hopefully named, shamed, and jailed. The public demand accountability, and will get it.
And never forget, Labour voted against this enquiry. They don't want it despite what they are saying now. Don't be gaslit. |
My usual morning run past Grenfell, I mused about when politicians (or anyone else accountable) would be named and jailed.
Don't hold your breath |  | | |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:23 - Jun 17 with 2417 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:10 - Jun 17 by Bluecoin |
There will be social workers, teachers, councillors, politicians and police who are hopefully named, shamed, and jailed. The public demand accountability, and will get it.
And never forget, Labour voted against this enquiry. They don't want it despite what they are saying now. Don't be gaslit. |
Sounds like you’re in the market for some magic beans too! | |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:31 - Jun 17 with 2363 views | noggin |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:10 - Jun 17 by Bluecoin |
There will be social workers, teachers, councillors, politicians and police who are hopefully named, shamed, and jailed. The public demand accountability, and will get it.
And never forget, Labour voted against this enquiry. They don't want it despite what they are saying now. Don't be gaslit. |
"The public demand accountability, and will get it."
Sadly, I suspect a large number of the public, who are demanding an enquiry, are desperate for the findings to show the Pakistani gangs connection. Those people are not interested in delivering justice for the victims. These women deserve justice and then help with building their damaged mental health and lives. What they don't need is racists and bigots using their sufferings as an excuse to attack innocent minority communities, including those of Pakistani origin. [Post edited 17 Jun 7:31]
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:38 - Jun 17 with 2311 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:22 - Jun 17 by tcblue |
My usual morning run past Grenfell, I mused about when politicians (or anyone else accountable) would be named and jailed.
Don't hold your breath |
Yep. And justice can’t come out of this inquiry either. There will be years of subsequent criminal investigations needed before anyone actually faces any consequences, if at all. That’s not to say we shouldn’t find out more about what went on and any structural failures of course. People are a bit naive if they think the victims will be getting justice and/or help to rebuild their lives through, for example, compensation as a result of this new inquiry. As has already been pointed out, in England and Wales the victims have already been denied access to the compensation the Jay inquiry recommended. | |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:42 - Jun 17 with 2297 views | Bluecoin |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:31 - Jun 17 by noggin |
"The public demand accountability, and will get it."
Sadly, I suspect a large number of the public, who are demanding an enquiry, are desperate for the findings to show the Pakistani gangs connection. Those people are not interested in delivering justice for the victims. These women deserve justice and then help with building their damaged mental health and lives. What they don't need is racists and bigots using their sufferings as an excuse to attack innocent minority communities, including those of Pakistani origin. [Post edited 17 Jun 7:31]
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They should shut up for the sake of diversity, you mean?
Not going to happen, again, sorry. [Post edited 17 Jun 7:43]
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:49 - Jun 17 with 2262 views | Herbivore |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:10 - Jun 17 by Bluecoin |
There will be social workers, teachers, councillors, politicians and police who are hopefully named, shamed, and jailed. The public demand accountability, and will get it.
And never forget, Labour voted against this enquiry. They don't want it despite what they are saying now. Don't be gaslit. |
The purpose of an inquiry is to do a deep dive into what happened, what went wrong, and what lessons can be learnt. It's purpose is not and should not be to throw some red meat to a baying crowd and to "name and shame" anyone who had any involvement in these tragic cases.
I'm also not sure we should be advocating for throwing anyone in prison for not doing their jobs well enough, especially when many of those individuals are working in broken systems. If anyone is genuinely criminally complicit in what happened, either through deliberate comission of acts or through criminal levels of negligence, then fair enough, but that's unlikely to be the case, certainly not for many of those involved. We already struggle to recruit and retain enough teachers and social workers to meet demand (not sure about police), how many people do you think are going to be attracted to jobs where real wages have plummeted over the last 20 years when it also comes with the threat of being banged up if you make a mistake?
Many of the victims don't want an inquiry, although many also do. I doubt many of them want people other than the perpetrators of abuse to be locked up. Certainly everyone I've seen spoken to wants lessons to be learnt so stuff like this can't happen in future. Whether you can entirely stop criminal behaviour is another matter but for sure, things can and must get better.
On a similar tangent though, the financial crisis of 2009 and the austerity policies that followed led to nearly 200k excess deaths in the UK. Nearly 200k people that died who didn't need to because of the actions of bankers who gambled with people's lives and countries' economies, 200k mostly vulnerable people who died because of policy choices made by the Tory/Lib coalition, many of which did not protect society's most vulnerable. I haven't seen you calling for all of those bankers or politicians to be locked up, despite them being culpable for something close to a genocide. I wonder why.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/inequalities/2024/06/19/the-cost-of-austerity-how-spendi |  |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:55 - Jun 17 with 2228 views | noggin |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:42 - Jun 17 by Bluecoin |
They should shut up for the sake of diversity, you mean?
Not going to happen, again, sorry. [Post edited 17 Jun 7:43]
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No, they should shut up because that's what they do when the perpetrators are white and British. | |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:56 - Jun 17 with 2217 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:10 - Jun 17 by Bluecoin |
There will be social workers, teachers, councillors, politicians and police who are hopefully named, shamed, and jailed. The public demand accountability, and will get it.
And never forget, Labour voted against this enquiry. They don't want it despite what they are saying now. Don't be gaslit. |
Or maybe more information has come to light and they've simply realised a full enquiry is needed.
I hate the way people complain about rigid politicians who won't change their view, even despite new evidence... and yet if they do change their view they're derided for committing the sin of a "U-turn".
When did "U-turn" become such a dirty word/phrase? Sometimes it's good to admit you were wrong originally and change your view.
Also, Kemi Badenoch has got a nerve (again). Complaining about Labour’s alleged inaction or inconsistency given the Tories' own record on grooming gangs... and the fact that she was Minister for Women and Equalities herself from 2020–2022. I'm obviously no lover of the Tories but she really is out of her depth. I actually want them to get someone decent in so they can provide proper opposition (and not let Farage in either). [Post edited 17 Jun 8:02]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 08:03 - Jun 17 with 2103 views | Herbivore |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:56 - Jun 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Or maybe more information has come to light and they've simply realised a full enquiry is needed.
I hate the way people complain about rigid politicians who won't change their view, even despite new evidence... and yet if they do change their view they're derided for committing the sin of a "U-turn".
When did "U-turn" become such a dirty word/phrase? Sometimes it's good to admit you were wrong originally and change your view.
Also, Kemi Badenoch has got a nerve (again). Complaining about Labour’s alleged inaction or inconsistency given the Tories' own record on grooming gangs... and the fact that she was Minister for Women and Equalities herself from 2020–2022. I'm obviously no lover of the Tories but she really is out of her depth. I actually want them to get someone decent in so they can provide proper opposition (and not let Farage in either). [Post edited 17 Jun 8:02]
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Agreed on the Badenoch stuff and also agree that changing your mind when new information comes to light is a good thing. It's admirable in fact to pivot when the evidence points elsewhere. But with Starmer's major u-turns, I'm not sure that's the case. We don't really know anything now about either the grooming gang scandal or about winter fuel payments to pensioners that we didn't know when he made his original decisions. He's changed his mind because of political pressure and not because of changing circumstances. The Tories frequently did the same in their chaotic last 5 years from Johnson onwards. It's not a great way to govern. [Post edited 17 Jun 8:04]
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 08:27 - Jun 17 with 1989 views | RegencyBlue |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:56 - Jun 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Or maybe more information has come to light and they've simply realised a full enquiry is needed.
I hate the way people complain about rigid politicians who won't change their view, even despite new evidence... and yet if they do change their view they're derided for committing the sin of a "U-turn".
When did "U-turn" become such a dirty word/phrase? Sometimes it's good to admit you were wrong originally and change your view.
Also, Kemi Badenoch has got a nerve (again). Complaining about Labour’s alleged inaction or inconsistency given the Tories' own record on grooming gangs... and the fact that she was Minister for Women and Equalities herself from 2020–2022. I'm obviously no lover of the Tories but she really is out of her depth. I actually want them to get someone decent in so they can provide proper opposition (and not let Farage in either). [Post edited 17 Jun 8:02]
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On the face of it there isn’t much in this report which hasn’t been alleged by the victims and their supporters for a decade and more. For politicians of whatever persuasion to pretend this is all new to them and they’ve only just realised the scale of what was happening is disingenuous to say the least.
Both Labour and the Conservatives are complicit in what looks like a massive establishment cover up and Baroness Casey is pretty clear as to what she thinks the reasons for this are! |  | | |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 08:42 - Jun 17 with 1932 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:49 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
The purpose of an inquiry is to do a deep dive into what happened, what went wrong, and what lessons can be learnt. It's purpose is not and should not be to throw some red meat to a baying crowd and to "name and shame" anyone who had any involvement in these tragic cases.
I'm also not sure we should be advocating for throwing anyone in prison for not doing their jobs well enough, especially when many of those individuals are working in broken systems. If anyone is genuinely criminally complicit in what happened, either through deliberate comission of acts or through criminal levels of negligence, then fair enough, but that's unlikely to be the case, certainly not for many of those involved. We already struggle to recruit and retain enough teachers and social workers to meet demand (not sure about police), how many people do you think are going to be attracted to jobs where real wages have plummeted over the last 20 years when it also comes with the threat of being banged up if you make a mistake?
Many of the victims don't want an inquiry, although many also do. I doubt many of them want people other than the perpetrators of abuse to be locked up. Certainly everyone I've seen spoken to wants lessons to be learnt so stuff like this can't happen in future. Whether you can entirely stop criminal behaviour is another matter but for sure, things can and must get better.
On a similar tangent though, the financial crisis of 2009 and the austerity policies that followed led to nearly 200k excess deaths in the UK. Nearly 200k people that died who didn't need to because of the actions of bankers who gambled with people's lives and countries' economies, 200k mostly vulnerable people who died because of policy choices made by the Tory/Lib coalition, many of which did not protect society's most vulnerable. I haven't seen you calling for all of those bankers or politicians to be locked up, despite them being culpable for something close to a genocide. I wonder why.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/inequalities/2024/06/19/the-cost-of-austerity-how-spendi |
Quite bizarre isn't it the order in which they have listed those professions. |  |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 08:55 - Jun 17 with 1865 views | Herbivore |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 08:27 - Jun 17 by RegencyBlue |
On the face of it there isn’t much in this report which hasn’t been alleged by the victims and their supporters for a decade and more. For politicians of whatever persuasion to pretend this is all new to them and they’ve only just realised the scale of what was happening is disingenuous to say the least.
Both Labour and the Conservatives are complicit in what looks like a massive establishment cover up and Baroness Casey is pretty clear as to what she thinks the reasons for this are! |
But we've known for years that there have been concerns that professional, and particulalry the police, were concerned about accusations of racism. This isn't something that's just come out in the last couple of days. I see the term "cover up" used a lot in relation to this and I find it odd, I can't think of many scandals that we know more about than this one. It's not that we don't know what happened, and we even know quite a lot about why it happened. What hasn't happened enough is trying to make it right and trying to prevent it happening again. I'm not convinced another inquiry will help on that front. | |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:14 - Jun 17 with 1798 views | baxterbasics |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:31 - Jun 17 by noggin |
"The public demand accountability, and will get it."
Sadly, I suspect a large number of the public, who are demanding an enquiry, are desperate for the findings to show the Pakistani gangs connection. Those people are not interested in delivering justice for the victims. These women deserve justice and then help with building their damaged mental health and lives. What they don't need is racists and bigots using their sufferings as an excuse to attack innocent minority communities, including those of Pakistani origin. [Post edited 17 Jun 7:31]
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The Pakistani gangs connection is well covered and addressed already. This is no longer the point. It's the enablers: those who turned a blind eye or actively buried what was going on, because racial harmony was more important. Those who went after anyone who tried to call it out. Police, politicians local and maybe national. Social services. Mostly middle class white people I suspect, who for some reason still haven't been reprimanded, lost their job, or if appropriate faced criminal charges for their neglect of duty. Also, measures put in place to prevent this happening again. This I think is what most people are waiting to see. Doubt we will get it but here's hoping. |  |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:17 - Jun 17 with 1764 views | textbackup |
Police protecting the bad guys, who’d have thought it.
Some serious strings being pulled |  |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:22 - Jun 17 with 1749 views | Blueschev |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:14 - Jun 17 by baxterbasics |
The Pakistani gangs connection is well covered and addressed already. This is no longer the point. It's the enablers: those who turned a blind eye or actively buried what was going on, because racial harmony was more important. Those who went after anyone who tried to call it out. Police, politicians local and maybe national. Social services. Mostly middle class white people I suspect, who for some reason still haven't been reprimanded, lost their job, or if appropriate faced criminal charges for their neglect of duty. Also, measures put in place to prevent this happening again. This I think is what most people are waiting to see. Doubt we will get it but here's hoping. |
What never seems to be discussed in this case is the derogatory attitudes towards working class girls so prevalent in our society, and how such attitudes contributed to the victims being ignored. |  | | |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:24 - Jun 17 with 1727 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:14 - Jun 17 by baxterbasics |
The Pakistani gangs connection is well covered and addressed already. This is no longer the point. It's the enablers: those who turned a blind eye or actively buried what was going on, because racial harmony was more important. Those who went after anyone who tried to call it out. Police, politicians local and maybe national. Social services. Mostly middle class white people I suspect, who for some reason still haven't been reprimanded, lost their job, or if appropriate faced criminal charges for their neglect of duty. Also, measures put in place to prevent this happening again. This I think is what most people are waiting to see. Doubt we will get it but here's hoping. |
You appear to think (though not as vehemently as another poster in this thread) that there are people literally sitting in their offices thinking "ha ha ha, lets make a bad decision that hurts people" and should be fired.
The impact of group think, self reinforcement, under resourcing, corporate / organisational inertia etc are far bigger factors and in the vast majority of cases really shouldnt even bring the thought of criminal steps.
Do you know how much social workers earn, for instance, and how hard they work?
The prior reports have gone through, in some detail, the issue of reticence to tread on territory where race is involved and hte need to address that. They have also noted, robustly, issues of innappropriate attitudes to victims, the need for better information and training etc.
It really isnt the (criminal level) fault of a police officer brought through a system where those attitudes have been allowed to persist, in unconsciously taking them on and therefore making some poor decisions. | | | |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:29 - Jun 17 with 1682 views | baxterbasics |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:24 - Jun 17 by redrickstuhaart |
You appear to think (though not as vehemently as another poster in this thread) that there are people literally sitting in their offices thinking "ha ha ha, lets make a bad decision that hurts people" and should be fired.
The impact of group think, self reinforcement, under resourcing, corporate / organisational inertia etc are far bigger factors and in the vast majority of cases really shouldnt even bring the thought of criminal steps.
Do you know how much social workers earn, for instance, and how hard they work?
The prior reports have gone through, in some detail, the issue of reticence to tread on territory where race is involved and hte need to address that. They have also noted, robustly, issues of innappropriate attitudes to victims, the need for better information and training etc.
It really isnt the (criminal level) fault of a police officer brought through a system where those attitudes have been allowed to persist, in unconsciously taking them on and therefore making some poor decisions. |
Some good points there and I agree.
I did include "if appropriate" regarding charges and it may well be it isn't in most cases. | |
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| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:30 - Jun 17 with 1674 views | soupytwist |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 07:10 - Jun 17 by Bluecoin |
There will be social workers, teachers, councillors, politicians and police who are hopefully named, shamed, and jailed. The public demand accountability, and will get it.
And never forget, Labour voted against this enquiry. They don't want it despite what they are saying now. Don't be gaslit. |
I'm sure that there will be a few who could have acted differently (specifically with regard to believing and helping victims, rather than as perpetrators) but lumping teachers in with the rest of that list and making them the second category of those who should be up against the wall when the revolution comes is out of order in my view.
Just sayin'. |  | | |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:33 - Jun 17 with 1637 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:29 - Jun 17 by baxterbasics |
Some good points there and I agree.
I did include "if appropriate" regarding charges and it may well be it isn't in most cases. |
I think the problem is that, encouraged by the likes of Badenoch and Farage, people who were baying for this enquiry are essentially coming at it from the perspective of "GET THEM!"
Not really what an enquiry is for. | | | |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:35 - Jun 17 with 1634 views | Bluecoin |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:30 - Jun 17 by soupytwist |
I'm sure that there will be a few who could have acted differently (specifically with regard to believing and helping victims, rather than as perpetrators) but lumping teachers in with the rest of that list and making them the second category of those who should be up against the wall when the revolution comes is out of order in my view.
Just sayin'. |
Teachers turned their backs on victims. There was a survivor on the radio talking about it yesterday.
The department of education at the highest level are involved in the cover ups. It's going to be uncomfortable to hear, but it all needs to come out. And it wiil. | | | |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:36 - Jun 17 with 1621 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Casey report on grooming gangs on 09:22 - Jun 17 by Blueschev |
What never seems to be discussed in this case is the derogatory attitudes towards working class girls so prevalent in our society, and how such attitudes contributed to the victims being ignored. |
Good point. It reflects the attitude to the working class and poor generally. Sneering and belittling them rather than listening to them.
Another point is the communities these men come from are appalled at what’s happened. A filmmaker on the radio just now, who originally exposed the issue, is convinced that the community needs to be given a louder voice and that would help stem the racism aimed the whole communities’ way. The racism makes it very difficult for them to speak up, so a bit of a vicious circle there. | |
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