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Corbyn's new party launched on 11:59 - Jul 6 by DJR
A few observations as someone who was secretary of my local Labour Party during the Corbyn years, although I never voted for him as leader.
1. Corbyn was put forward as the left's candidate with no expectation that he would come anywhere near being elected as leader.
2. In my view, his election was a reaction to austerity and a feeling amongst many Labour members that Labour under Miliband had largely gone along with what the Tories did.
3. If one were to call it a cult, that presumably applies mainly to the 200,000 or people who joined the Labour Party to support him: I can't imagine that many at Glastonbury who sang his name were Labour Party members. But my experience of them at a local level was that they were very decent, mainly old lefties who would never behave in the way you suggest. And in all the various meetings I attended over the Corbyn years, no one acted that way.
4. At the start of the 2017 election campaign, Labour's polling was dire (not least because of two years of attacks from all sides, including those within the Labour Party who opposed him). The election period involved a period of relative political balance which enabled Corbyn to get his message across, and it was fascinating as campaign progressed how the mood changed when I was campaigning on the streets, with many people of 50 or less coming across to Labour because they realised the system wasn't working for them.
5. Corbyn's main failing was that he was not leadership material but many of his policies were mainstream prior to Thatcher, even in the Tory Party.
[Post edited 6 Jul 12:09]
I wouldn't argue with much of that, to be fair! My feeling on Corbyn was that he was/is too much of a black/white thinker. I never got the impression there was much nuance with him.
There's good and bad, right and wrong. No grey areas, no room for discussion. Maybe that's not entirely fair on him, but it definitely stems from my second feeling about him: that he was appalling at PR. Great at talking to his adoring fans, but put him in front of someone he doesn't like (a journalist/political opponent etc) and he just became a tetchy grump, which doesn't help him get his point across.
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Corbyn's new party launched on 16:54 - Jul 6 with 1250 views
Corbyn's new party launched on 09:47 - Jul 5 by noggin
There are too many super rich tax avoiders that don't want him anywhere near government. The billionaire owned media will ensure he's unpopular amongst the easily led masses.
Corbyn's new party launched on 09:21 - Jul 6 by glasso
Corbyn's cult was half the problem, imo. Around that time they were so idealistic that if you weren't 100% behind him and his ideas, you were a Tory/fascist/Nazi. There was no in between.
There was no attempt to reach out and welcome new people. It was all "he is 100% right and if you don't agree you're stupid and have been brainwashed"
It works for the people who *are* 100% behind him - they become a little gang with a backs-against-the-wall mentality, but everyone else just gets pushed further away.
Just like an actual cult
I think there's some significant context being left out in that analysis.
When Corbyn was elected leader he attempted to keep the party's front bench a wide church. Although several incumbent shadow cabinet members refused to serve under him, he did include several figures from the right and centre of the party like Angela Eagle, Hilary Benn, Chris Bryant etc.
Then there was the leadership challenge and more people from the right and centre being unwilling to serve in the shadow cabinet. And this is before we get into the party management deliberately undermining and working against him.
When significant elements of the party were happier to see the Tories win than have a left-wing government, I think people on the left of the party had every right to be extremely angry, and it shouldn't have been a surprise that they developed a backs-against-the-wall mentality.
[Post edited 6 Jul 21:18]
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Corbyn's new party launched on 20:14 - Jul 6 with 1082 views
Corbyn's new party launched on 19:31 - Jul 6 by Clapham_Junction
I think there's some significant context being left out in that analysis.
When Corbyn was elected leader he attempted to keep the party's front bench a wide church. Although several incumbent shadow cabinet members refused to serve under him, he did include several figures from the right and centre of the party like Angela Eagle, Hilary Benn, Chris Bryant etc.
Then there was the leadership challenge and more people from the right and centre being unwilling to serve in the shadow cabinet. And this is before we get into the party management deliberately undermining and working against him.
When significant elements of the party were happier to see the Tories win than have a left-wing government, I think people on the left of the party had every right to be extremely angry, and it shouldn't have been a surprise that they developed a backs-against-the-wall mentality.
[Post edited 6 Jul 21:18]
I hate to give the ba5tards credit, but that's long been the 'problem' with Labour and the strength of the Tories (if you can call it that)... Labour put morals above winning elections. The Tories would just get behind their leader, get a win in the bag and then fight it out afterwards.
Labour always seem to end up scrapping amongst themselves.
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Corbyn's new party launched on 20:22 - Jul 6 with 1073 views
Corbyn's new party launched on 20:14 - Jul 6 by glasso
I hate to give the ba5tards credit, but that's long been the 'problem' with Labour and the strength of the Tories (if you can call it that)... Labour put morals above winning elections. The Tories would just get behind their leader, get a win in the bag and then fight it out afterwards.
Labour always seem to end up scrapping amongst themselves.
I don’t see a difference between any of them. The Tories have always fought like cats in a sack. The splinter group from the Tories, aka as Reform, have also been fighting amongst themselves. Labour do too. There are thousands of issues facing politicians, so it’s inevitable they won’t agree even if they’re in the same party.
Corbyn's new party launched on 19:31 - Jul 6 by Clapham_Junction
I think there's some significant context being left out in that analysis.
When Corbyn was elected leader he attempted to keep the party's front bench a wide church. Although several incumbent shadow cabinet members refused to serve under him, he did include several figures from the right and centre of the party like Angela Eagle, Hilary Benn, Chris Bryant etc.
Then there was the leadership challenge and more people from the right and centre being unwilling to serve in the shadow cabinet. And this is before we get into the party management deliberately undermining and working against him.
When significant elements of the party were happier to see the Tories win than have a left-wing government, I think people on the left of the party had every right to be extremely angry, and it shouldn't have been a surprise that they developed a backs-against-the-wall mentality.
[Post edited 6 Jul 21:18]
Unsurprisingly, Anuska Athstana's book on the role of Morgan McSweeney and Labour Together in undermining Corbyn and replacing him with Starmer got little publicity when it was published last autumn.
Here is a good summary of the book, with the feeding of damaging stories to right wing newspapers being just one aspect.
Corbyn's new party launched on 20:22 - Jul 6 by Swansea_Blue
I don’t see a difference between any of them. The Tories have always fought like cats in a sack. The splinter group from the Tories, aka as Reform, have also been fighting amongst themselves. Labour do too. There are thousands of issues facing politicians, so it’s inevitable they won’t agree even if they’re in the same party.
Think there's just a significant extent to which Labour infighting, particularly post-2015, feels worse than the Tory equivalent because it is exhaustively reported on.
During the Corbyn era you'd get a whole week of front page headlines over a "coup" on Haringey Borough Council and then another week on some backbench MP's terror about being deselected. You got less coverage even when the Tories mass expelled basically all their centrist MPs.
Think it's easy to decide anti-capitalist politicians are inept, always in-fighting (and they often are), but it is always the case that the media is mainly owned by people who instinctively and automatically hate that kind of politics, so if that's your ideas you're playing on hard mode right from the start.
Corbyn's new party launched on 13:54 - Jul 7 by jayessess
Think there's just a significant extent to which Labour infighting, particularly post-2015, feels worse than the Tory equivalent because it is exhaustively reported on.
During the Corbyn era you'd get a whole week of front page headlines over a "coup" on Haringey Borough Council and then another week on some backbench MP's terror about being deselected. You got less coverage even when the Tories mass expelled basically all their centrist MPs.
Think it's easy to decide anti-capitalist politicians are inept, always in-fighting (and they often are), but it is always the case that the media is mainly owned by people who instinctively and automatically hate that kind of politics, so if that's your ideas you're playing on hard mode right from the start.
[Post edited 7 Jul 14:50]
The irony is that the widely-trailed deselection of centrist Labour MPs never materialised, but when McSweeney and Starmer got into power, they ensured total control over the selection of candidates in order to prevent candidates from the left (apart from a few sitting MPs) standing.
[Post edited 7 Jul 14:13]
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Corbyn's new party launched on 14:57 - Jul 7 with 824 views
Corbyn's new party launched on 14:12 - Jul 7 by DJR
The irony is that the widely-trailed deselection of centrist Labour MPs never materialised, but when McSweeney and Starmer got into power, they ensured total control over the selection of candidates in order to prevent candidates from the left (apart from a few sitting MPs) standing.
[Post edited 7 Jul 14:13]
Starmer massively benefited from the Left being widely regarded as illegitimate political actors who should be crushed by any means necessary. It was only once the Labour Left had been fully buried that the media started fully going after him.
Corbyn's new party launched on 12:18 - Jul 5 by noggin
"Middle class just about managing" How did that happen then?
Because they spend silly amounts of money keeping up with there nighbours, while there nieghbours are doing exactly the same. We had a group of 8 in our village pub, we nicked named them the Royal Family. As a group they were quaffing Chamoagne, then privatly moaning how much they were spending. this in rural Cambridgeshire probably worse in London
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Corbyn's new party launched on 16:28 - Jul 8 with 583 views
Corbyn's new party launched on 16:11 - Jul 8 by Leaky
Because they spend silly amounts of money keeping up with there nighbours, while there nieghbours are doing exactly the same. We had a group of 8 in our village pub, we nicked named them the Royal Family. As a group they were quaffing Chamoagne, then privatly moaning how much they were spending. this in rural Cambridgeshire probably worse in London
You don't think it's anything to do with average house prices now being over 8 times average earnings, meaning housing costs for most people are astronomical and take up a big chunk of their earnings?
Corbyn's new party launched on 16:33 - Jul 8 by Herbivore
You don't think it's anything to do with average house prices now being over 8 times average earnings, meaning housing costs for most people are astronomical and take up a big chunk of their earnings?
Seems there is plenty of money around people having 3 or 4 holidays a year, new cars, meals out. the problem as i see it saving money with low interest rates seems a low priotity so people are spending it.
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Corbyn's new party launched on 17:22 - Jul 8 with 520 views
Corbyn's new party launched on 16:53 - Jul 8 by Leaky
Seems there is plenty of money around people having 3 or 4 holidays a year, new cars, meals out. the problem as i see it saving money with low interest rates seems a low priotity so people are spending it.
So nothing to do with massive housing costs at all?
Corbyn's new party launched on 21:03 - Jul 6 by DJR
Unsurprisingly, Anuska Athstana's book on the role of Morgan McSweeney and Labour Together in undermining Corbyn and replacing him with Starmer got little publicity when it was published last autumn.
Here is a good summary of the book, with the feeding of damaging stories to right wing newspapers being just one aspect.
'Asthana’s account describes a covert campaign to prevent Corbyn from ever leading a Labour government. McSweeney and his colleagues, with funding from venture capitalists and businessmen, worked behind the scenes to undermine Corbyn’s leadership and electoral chances. While Labour Together publicly advocated for unity, its behind-the-scenes work involved building a network of former Labour advisors and activists focused on identifying and publicizing issues, most notably anti-Semitism within Labour's ranks.
The group concentrated on finding problematic posts in hundreds of Facebook groups linked to left-wing politics. Asthana describes how they provided these posts to journalists, helping to fuel a media narrative that further destabilized Corbyn’s leadership. This culminated in a prolonged scandal over Labour's handling of anti-Semitism, which became a major source of internal conflict and public mistrust.'
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Corbyn's new party launched on 17:22 - Jul 8 by Herbivore
So nothing to do with massive housing costs at all?
Exactly. To buy a house in leafy suburbia, they have to compete with super rich investors who continually push prices up. The middle class have been pushed further and further away from their city centre workplaces for years. The working class have been forced from the areas they grew up in and soon the middle class will be forced to rent in places like Clacton and Hull. But hey, don't tax the rich because they will leave. Fk'em, let them go, they can't take their property portfolios with them.
Corbyn's new party launched on 16:11 - Jul 8 by Leaky
Because they spend silly amounts of money keeping up with there nighbours, while there nieghbours are doing exactly the same. We had a group of 8 in our village pub, we nicked named them the Royal Family. As a group they were quaffing Chamoagne, then privatly moaning how much they were spending. this in rural Cambridgeshire probably worse in London
Do people really do this though?
You're anecdotal example isn't evidence, do you have any evidence of people spending beyond their means on mass to keep up with their neighbours?
Just seems an easy trope to trot out with a singular example to support your view.
In reality, I don't think the majority are in a pub drinking champagne to keep up with the neighbours.
SB
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Corbyn's new party launched on 20:13 - Jul 8 with 351 views
C'mon Stokie you live in Stoke Newington and you've surely been to Aldeburgh, Southwold and Woodbridge!
Those people likely aren't stretching themselves to keep up with the neighbours though.
I don't buy the theory that most people spend their time focusing on what the neighbours are doing and spend all their money trying to do the same which is what he proposed.
It's a lazy trope.
SB
[Post edited 8 Jul 20:18]
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Corbyn's new party launched on 20:17 - Jul 8 with 342 views
'Asthana’s account describes a covert campaign to prevent Corbyn from ever leading a Labour government. McSweeney and his colleagues, with funding from venture capitalists and businessmen, worked behind the scenes to undermine Corbyn’s leadership and electoral chances. While Labour Together publicly advocated for unity, its behind-the-scenes work involved building a network of former Labour advisors and activists focused on identifying and publicizing issues, most notably anti-Semitism within Labour's ranks.
The group concentrated on finding problematic posts in hundreds of Facebook groups linked to left-wing politics. Asthana describes how they provided these posts to journalists, helping to fuel a media narrative that further destabilized Corbyn’s leadership. This culminated in a prolonged scandal over Labour's handling of anti-Semitism, which became a major source of internal conflict and public mistrust.'
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