| Downsizing / opting out 07:55 - Jul 7 with 3449 views | bluelagos |
Following on from J2s thoughts - basically the idea of living a simpler minimalist life without the stress of a career and all that entails...
If you could make a switch now - what's the lowest amount of money that you would take (index linked) for life today. So if someone said here's £25k a year, for ever, but you are not allowed to ever earn another penny - would you take it?
Would you take less? Would you want more to do the deal?
You don't get to change your mind later, or take it later - the offer is only valid for today and you have to decide for you and your family.
Assume your mortgage is paid so what you get is what you live on and not a penny more. |  |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 08:25 - Jul 7 with 2246 views | Jon_456 |
I’d take it, send my wife to work and tell her sorry but Bluelagos said I couldn’t change my mind so off you go.
On a serious note I wouldn’t take it but could easily see myself giving a different answer in 10-15years. |  | | |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:28 - Jul 7 with 2233 views | bsw72 |
No, I love my life and my career - it's about what you make it not how much you earn or what you do . . . would I like to do something different, almpost certainly but it doesn't mean I am not happy with things today.
It's about state of mind, if you don't like what you do, then change it yourself. |  | | |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:37 - Jul 7 with 2184 views | Westcountryblue |
Interesting topic, I've gone about doing something similiar.
Over the past couple of years, I've got rid of my UK properties and invested the proceeds into a range of index and dividend paying funds. At the moment, I try to live as frugally as possible, putting a couple of grand each month into these funds.
The intention is to be financially independent and travel around the world carrying as little as possible. If I find somewhere I like, I might buy a condo, but the thought of not really having to worry each month about a pension or mortgage and just using the 3-4% withdrawal rule is very motivating. | | | |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:39 - Jul 7 with 2165 views | MVBlue |
This seems related to the FIRE movement.
Financial Independence Retire Early
Where all debts and housing is paid and investments mean you can do what you wish, drawing on investments to work when you want.
With the mortgage paid off, and the kids out of school, one starts looking at the outgoings, that would mean no overseas flights for holidays which I could live with. Having a campervan means inexpensive trips away. I still find it difficult to know how much is needed for income, but at 57 it would be possible to draw on £20k per annum and add to that investment income.
Anyone else would planning for FIRE? |  |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 08:46 - Jul 7 with 2124 views | bluelagos |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:39 - Jul 7 by MVBlue |
This seems related to the FIRE movement.
Financial Independence Retire Early
Where all debts and housing is paid and investments mean you can do what you wish, drawing on investments to work when you want.
With the mortgage paid off, and the kids out of school, one starts looking at the outgoings, that would mean no overseas flights for holidays which I could live with. Having a campervan means inexpensive trips away. I still find it difficult to know how much is needed for income, but at 57 it would be possible to draw on £20k per annum and add to that investment income.
Anyone else would planning for FIRE? |
Done a bit of reading up on this the past few months. One thing I do think is that many people simply bounce along, get to retirement age and kind of hope they have enough put aside to live on.
Whilst getting to 66 and discovering your finances aren't good (as so you have to carry on working) is proper rubbish - I guess getting to 66 and discovering you could have retired 5 years ago is also pretty rubbish - cos you can never go back and enjoy those years.
Loads out there - but the info is definitely US bias which is a bit of a pain. | |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 08:51 - Jul 7 with 2093 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:37 - Jul 7 by Westcountryblue |
Interesting topic, I've gone about doing something similiar.
Over the past couple of years, I've got rid of my UK properties and invested the proceeds into a range of index and dividend paying funds. At the moment, I try to live as frugally as possible, putting a couple of grand each month into these funds.
The intention is to be financially independent and travel around the world carrying as little as possible. If I find somewhere I like, I might buy a condo, but the thought of not really having to worry each month about a pension or mortgage and just using the 3-4% withdrawal rule is very motivating. |
I quit very early, and have pretty much lived off 3% the last decade or more. There have been big market ups & downs in that time, and a bout of entirely unexpected inflation, and all is fine financially.
If had followed the 4% rule, I would still have been fine, so I suggest it is one of those rare simple bits of advice that is actually valid.
Another simple way is to try to divide your assets 3 ways, between property, pension(s) incl govt pension, and other savings. If any one let's you down, value-wise, you'd still be ok.
I would add, though, that your outgoings are unlikely to be consistent year on year. At some point, hedonism may give way to slothism, but then there's the risk of having g to shell out for new knees / hips unless the NHS gets sorted, let alone later cost of personal care. | | | |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:52 - Jul 7 with 2082 views | bluelagos |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:28 - Jul 7 by bsw72 |
No, I love my life and my career - it's about what you make it not how much you earn or what you do . . . would I like to do something different, almpost certainly but it doesn't mean I am not happy with things today.
It's about state of mind, if you don't like what you do, then change it yourself. |
"if you don't like what you do, then change it yourself"
Absolutely. But I think there is still a trade off with regards to our needs and wants. So whilst it would be great to all work for a charity, gardening or as a ski instructor - ultimately the cost of living is so high (and increasing) that taking a better paid job is almost a necessity for many.
Is being a ski instructor ever going to sustain a mortgage, car, family stuff and retirement? And if not (and you're happy) - what does that matter?
Not sure where my head is at - and it must be so hard for youngsters deciding whether to chase their dreams or opt for a "sensible" job. | |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 08:54 - Jul 7 with 2069 views | Westcountryblue |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:39 - Jul 7 by MVBlue |
This seems related to the FIRE movement.
Financial Independence Retire Early
Where all debts and housing is paid and investments mean you can do what you wish, drawing on investments to work when you want.
With the mortgage paid off, and the kids out of school, one starts looking at the outgoings, that would mean no overseas flights for holidays which I could live with. Having a campervan means inexpensive trips away. I still find it difficult to know how much is needed for income, but at 57 it would be possible to draw on £20k per annum and add to that investment income.
Anyone else would planning for FIRE? |
A portfolio of 600k paying out a 3.5% dividend yield would bring in around 21k a year, without touching the principle, which might further appreciate 6-7% a year depending on the funds in question. I think the amount you need very much depends on where you intend to live. You could quite comfortably live beside the beach in somewhere beautiful like Thailand with that kind of income. Same with a low cost European country, although visas are harder to come by these days. | | | |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 08:57 - Jul 7 with 2046 views | bluelagos |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:51 - Jul 7 by Freddies_Ears |
I quit very early, and have pretty much lived off 3% the last decade or more. There have been big market ups & downs in that time, and a bout of entirely unexpected inflation, and all is fine financially.
If had followed the 4% rule, I would still have been fine, so I suggest it is one of those rare simple bits of advice that is actually valid.
Another simple way is to try to divide your assets 3 ways, between property, pension(s) incl govt pension, and other savings. If any one let's you down, value-wise, you'd still be ok.
I would add, though, that your outgoings are unlikely to be consistent year on year. At some point, hedonism may give way to slothism, but then there's the risk of having g to shell out for new knees / hips unless the NHS gets sorted, let alone later cost of personal care. |
Did you choose 3% or did you live a lifestyle that turned out at 3%
I kind of did the latter - without even knowing about the 3 - 4% stuff. Proper cart before the horse stuff for me tbh. | |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 09:04 - Jul 7 with 1976 views | Westcountryblue |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:51 - Jul 7 by Freddies_Ears |
I quit very early, and have pretty much lived off 3% the last decade or more. There have been big market ups & downs in that time, and a bout of entirely unexpected inflation, and all is fine financially.
If had followed the 4% rule, I would still have been fine, so I suggest it is one of those rare simple bits of advice that is actually valid.
Another simple way is to try to divide your assets 3 ways, between property, pension(s) incl govt pension, and other savings. If any one let's you down, value-wise, you'd still be ok.
I would add, though, that your outgoings are unlikely to be consistent year on year. At some point, hedonism may give way to slothism, but then there's the risk of having g to shell out for new knees / hips unless the NHS gets sorted, let alone later cost of personal care. |
The intention was to finish in my early 40's, however, as an international teacher with a newborn, I'm now stuck working for another 18 years just to get the free school places.
I made a conscious decision to sell all of my UK assets a few years ago. The government are constantly squeezing landlords with numerous new laws and legislation that disadvantage them, tax allowances are getting increasingly lower and the recent proposed changes to investment ISA's are just another kick in the balls for the hardworking average Joe. I no longer have to self assess and as a non UK resident. My current assets are all offshore and none of HRMC's business which I'm delighted about. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:05]
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| Downsizing / opting out on 09:26 - Jul 7 with 1832 views | bsw72 |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:52 - Jul 7 by bluelagos |
"if you don't like what you do, then change it yourself"
Absolutely. But I think there is still a trade off with regards to our needs and wants. So whilst it would be great to all work for a charity, gardening or as a ski instructor - ultimately the cost of living is so high (and increasing) that taking a better paid job is almost a necessity for many.
Is being a ski instructor ever going to sustain a mortgage, car, family stuff and retirement? And if not (and you're happy) - what does that matter?
Not sure where my head is at - and it must be so hard for youngsters deciding whether to chase their dreams or opt for a "sensible" job. |
I would love to run a bookshop and cafe, but I like the lifestyle I have working in Tech, therefore I opt to carry on with my chosen career, but continue to push myself to ensure I get the most out of it professionally and therefore financially. I do spend a lot of time in bookshops drinking coffee though, so kind of a win/win.
I have an old school friend (we're in our early 50s now) who never got a "proper" job, he ski instructed through winter and scuba instructed through summer months. He now owns a scuba company in the Phillipines he built up himself. He worked hard on what he wanted, and got it, but it took him years of graft.
You can chase your dreams and work a sensible job, but have to make sacrifices with friends and social life, throwing yourself into the dream while funding it and your current life. You can also chase your dreams and scrimp/save to get there.
Either way it takes effort and hard work.
Social media is a big problem, with "influencers" talking about "side gigs" and making £000s per week while only working a few hours - and people actually believe this and expect money for nothing. 99% of social media is bs, carefully edited crap to suck in people and earn clicks for pennies.
Unless you are born into wealth / inheritence there is no such thing as money for nothing, if you want something, you have to earn it. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:28]
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| Downsizing / opting out on 09:32 - Jul 7 with 1796 views | thebooks |
Absolutely. We have all the stress of relatively well paid jobs but can still only afford a “minimal” lifestyle – the kids are at uni and we got a mortgage in our 40s.
It’s lucky I have zero interest in a nice car, fancy house etc. so £25,000 would be great (if we’re assuming the kids have finished uni and all other debts are clear). |  | | |
| Downsizing / opting out on 09:33 - Jul 7 with 1785 views | J2BLUE |
Interesting question.
When you say never allowed to earn another penny is that from a job or from anything? Not even the £1000 a year side hustle allowance? £500 interest? Nothing from existing investments?
The never being able to change it elements makes me want to inflate the figure quite a bit.
My personal desire isn't so much not working as knowing the basics are paid for and I have the freedom to leave jobs immediately etc. Not so much FIRE as 'f**k you money'. My expenses are low so the amount I would need if my mortgage was paid off (and it should be within 5 years - or at least equivalent funds held in higher interest account etc) including luxuries like Sky Sports and a reasonable chunk of spending money is much lower than many would think. So I would take £12,000 a year inflation adjusted IF allowed to keep working. If not, I would have to go for some seriously inflated figures just in case and say £30k (assuming no tax). |  |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 09:33 - Jul 7 with 1779 views | thebooks |
| Downsizing / opting out on 09:04 - Jul 7 by Westcountryblue |
The intention was to finish in my early 40's, however, as an international teacher with a newborn, I'm now stuck working for another 18 years just to get the free school places.
I made a conscious decision to sell all of my UK assets a few years ago. The government are constantly squeezing landlords with numerous new laws and legislation that disadvantage them, tax allowances are getting increasingly lower and the recent proposed changes to investment ISA's are just another kick in the balls for the hardworking average Joe. I no longer have to self assess and as a non UK resident. My current assets are all offshore and none of HRMC's business which I'm delighted about. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:05]
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Hardworking average Joe… landlords with offshore assets. Hmm. | | | |
| Downsizing / opting out on 09:41 - Jul 7 with 1746 views | OldFart71 |
I often wish I had taken a different career path. I spent a huge part of my life working in factories and whilst I made a lot of good mates that didn't take away the daily drudge of getting up, going to work and all that entails.
I sometimes think about my children, now grown ups and how many years ahead of them, God willing that they have to work.
I don't suppose they or I thought or think about it whilst you are working.
With regards to having a set amount of money for life well unless you can get somewhere rent free or live in a tent you will always need more each year due to prices of everything increasing.
Perhaps going off piste as it were, I see a very hard life ahead for many as unless this current government changes tack drastically we and those that follow us will have a very difficult time. | | | |
| Downsizing / opting out on 10:46 - Jul 7 with 1598 views | bluelagos |
| Downsizing / opting out on 09:33 - Jul 7 by J2BLUE |
Interesting question.
When you say never allowed to earn another penny is that from a job or from anything? Not even the £1000 a year side hustle allowance? £500 interest? Nothing from existing investments?
The never being able to change it elements makes me want to inflate the figure quite a bit.
My personal desire isn't so much not working as knowing the basics are paid for and I have the freedom to leave jobs immediately etc. Not so much FIRE as 'f**k you money'. My expenses are low so the amount I would need if my mortgage was paid off (and it should be within 5 years - or at least equivalent funds held in higher interest account etc) including luxuries like Sky Sports and a reasonable chunk of spending money is much lower than many would think. So I would take £12,000 a year inflation adjusted IF allowed to keep working. If not, I would have to go for some seriously inflated figures just in case and say £30k (assuming no tax). |
The "fck you money" is a lovely position to be in, to be able to choose your job, hours location etc. rather than it being determined by your employer.
Maybe that's one area where things are easier now, flexibility on location. Can't think of any of my ex employers who would have accepted wfh (and thus saying living in Cumbria) - I literally worked where they told me or I was welcome to leave.
Meant my career determined where I lived which is far from ideal tbh | |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 11:04 - Jul 7 with 1520 views | Herbivore |
| Downsizing / opting out on 09:04 - Jul 7 by Westcountryblue |
The intention was to finish in my early 40's, however, as an international teacher with a newborn, I'm now stuck working for another 18 years just to get the free school places.
I made a conscious decision to sell all of my UK assets a few years ago. The government are constantly squeezing landlords with numerous new laws and legislation that disadvantage them, tax allowances are getting increasingly lower and the recent proposed changes to investment ISA's are just another kick in the balls for the hardworking average Joe. I no longer have to self assess and as a non UK resident. My current assets are all offshore and none of HRMC's business which I'm delighted about. [Post edited 7 Jul 9:05]
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When you're talking about having investment portfolios worth £600k and offshore assets while complaining that poor old private landlords are getting the shaft, it's not really giving hardworking average Joe energy, mate. |  |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 11:15 - Jul 7 with 1422 views | EuanTown |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:54 - Jul 7 by Westcountryblue |
A portfolio of 600k paying out a 3.5% dividend yield would bring in around 21k a year, without touching the principle, which might further appreciate 6-7% a year depending on the funds in question. I think the amount you need very much depends on where you intend to live. You could quite comfortably live beside the beach in somewhere beautiful like Thailand with that kind of income. Same with a low cost European country, although visas are harder to come by these days. |
Where do you get a portfolio of £600k from in the first place. |  | | |
| Downsizing / opting out on 11:17 - Jul 7 with 1404 views | thebooks |
| Downsizing / opting out on 11:15 - Jul 7 by EuanTown |
Where do you get a portfolio of £600k from in the first place. |
Honest hard work, gov’ | | | |
| Downsizing / opting out on 11:22 - Jul 7 with 1368 views | J2BLUE |
| Downsizing / opting out on 08:28 - Jul 7 by bsw72 |
No, I love my life and my career - it's about what you make it not how much you earn or what you do . . . would I like to do something different, almpost certainly but it doesn't mean I am not happy with things today.
It's about state of mind, if you don't like what you do, then change it yourself. |
Not sure this reply really fits in with the point of the thread. You seem to be just saying make the best of your situation or change jobs? Not easy for some people. That is exactly what I am doing through while padding my investments and savings so hopefully one day soon I will have freedom. | |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 11:31 - Jul 7 with 1348 views | bluelagos |
| Downsizing / opting out on 11:22 - Jul 7 by J2BLUE |
Not sure this reply really fits in with the point of the thread. You seem to be just saying make the best of your situation or change jobs? Not easy for some people. That is exactly what I am doing through while padding my investments and savings so hopefully one day soon I will have freedom. |
(assuming you are happy to share...)
What type of job you looking to move to and from? I know previously you said you were with an FX bureau and really hated it? | |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 11:36 - Jul 7 with 1315 views | homer_123 |
Too many variables to consider to make a snap decision but if the essence of the thread is 'Would you consider a minimalist retirement?' - then, yes, that's def something I'd consider and actually will do.
On a wider point, I suspect many won't have a choice but to do minimalist when they retire as so few seem to plan accordingly. |  |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 11:41 - Jul 7 with 1296 views | bluelagos |
| Downsizing / opting out on 11:36 - Jul 7 by homer_123 |
Too many variables to consider to make a snap decision but if the essence of the thread is 'Would you consider a minimalist retirement?' - then, yes, that's def something I'd consider and actually will do.
On a wider point, I suspect many won't have a choice but to do minimalist when they retire as so few seem to plan accordingly. |
Yeah - shed loads of people will be forced to live on very low incomes not through choice.
I guess the answer to that is to push up the state pension but that would cost a fortune and benefit wealthy pensioners too.
But am guessing there's no appetite say for making pension rises twice the rate of inflation but only for those with an income under 30k - and leaving flat for those over 30k*?
*Or whatever number would be needed to be cost neutral. | |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 11:48 - Jul 7 with 1265 views | J2BLUE |
| Downsizing / opting out on 11:31 - Jul 7 by bluelagos |
(assuming you are happy to share...)
What type of job you looking to move to and from? I know previously you said you were with an FX bureau and really hated it? |
That was about 6-7 years ago!
I now work 4 days a week from home in the gambling industry. That's right, I am sub human scum working for the devil's own industry.
Probably not looking to move. Just secured a pay rise and will continue bettering my financial position without being obsessed to the level of some of the minimalist Youtubers! Still want to live and enjoy life while trying to ensure future J2's financial security.
One thing I would really love is to work for myself. I am trying to come up with ideas of something I could do for myself, initially as a side project then who knows? | |
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| Downsizing / opting out on 12:02 - Jul 7 with 1171 views | Basuco |
For a reasonable standard of living you would need £43K per year, it depends what you can cut out from your current outgoings. £2K a month does not go far these days let alone how far it would go in 10 to 15 years time. |  | | |
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