| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now 14:59 - Jul 13 with 2458 views | StokieBlue |
We've seen the issue that measles has become in the US given the success of the anti-vax propaganda around the MMR vaccine but it's becoming an issue in the UK now with a death in Liverpool.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/13/parents-urged-to-get-children-va
"Uptake of the vaccine has fallen across the country in the past decade with rates across England now at 84%. In Liverpool, only 73% of children aged five have received the necessary two shots, while in parts of London uptake is below 65%. To ensure herd immunity, where enough people are protected to prevent the virus spreading, vaccination rates must hit 95%."
This is really disappointing, the MMR vaccine has shown to be safe and work incredibly well yet the pushing of discredited theories by people like RFK Jr has had a huge effect. He even still pushes Wakefield's discredited research.
It's a very sad state of affairs.
SB
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 15:12 - Jul 13 with 1784 views | Miaow |
People are thick as sh¡t. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 16:03 - Jul 13 with 1688 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 15:12 - Jul 13 by Miaow |
People are thick as sh¡t. |
Very succinct and accurate. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 16:43 - Jul 13 with 1650 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 15:12 - Jul 13 by Miaow |
People are thick as sh¡t. |
I think that is clear, sounds harsh but is just very very accurate.
Anti-vaxers are some of the most idiotic people. The selfishness of them as well. Being thick and deluded is ok until you start leading the kids dying because you are on some moronic crusade.
Need social services involved for anyone not vaccinating their kids unless some very good and evidenced based individual reason. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 16:48 - Jul 13 with 1623 views | vilanovablue |
Too many people still caught up in the Wakefield bullsh1t. Had an ex who despite evidence wouldn't change her opinion,thoroughly depressing. |  | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 16:52 - Jul 13 with 1601 views | BlueBadger |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 16:43 - Jul 13 by Nutkins_Return |
I think that is clear, sounds harsh but is just very very accurate.
Anti-vaxers are some of the most idiotic people. The selfishness of them as well. Being thick and deluded is ok until you start leading the kids dying because you are on some moronic crusade.
Need social services involved for anyone not vaccinating their kids unless some very good and evidenced based individual reason. |
Fun fact: not getting your kids jabbed is already viewed as a red flag in child safeguarding. It's regarded as not a sign on it's own, but often comes bundled with a whole lot of other signs when building a case. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:02 - Jul 13 with 1580 views | bluelagos |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 16:43 - Jul 13 by Nutkins_Return |
I think that is clear, sounds harsh but is just very very accurate.
Anti-vaxers are some of the most idiotic people. The selfishness of them as well. Being thick and deluded is ok until you start leading the kids dying because you are on some moronic crusade.
Need social services involved for anyone not vaccinating their kids unless some very good and evidenced based individual reason. |
Social services? Behave yerself.
The reason people don't vaccinate their kids is because they believe the vaccinations are harmful or risky, not as an act of neglect.
Of course people should be vaccinating their kids but that should be a choice and one we address through education.
I don't know how they are done, but could they be done at schools? And have an "opt in" assumption where kids are vaccinated unless a parent objects? And those parents could be invited to a chat with a medic to explain/reassure them?
Of course some will still refuse but an engaged way of tackling the issue has so be more likely to be successful than involving social services. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:09 - Jul 13 with 1545 views | StokieBlue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:02 - Jul 13 by bluelagos |
Social services? Behave yerself.
The reason people don't vaccinate their kids is because they believe the vaccinations are harmful or risky, not as an act of neglect.
Of course people should be vaccinating their kids but that should be a choice and one we address through education.
I don't know how they are done, but could they be done at schools? And have an "opt in" assumption where kids are vaccinated unless a parent objects? And those parents could be invited to a chat with a medic to explain/reassure them?
Of course some will still refuse but an engaged way of tackling the issue has so be more likely to be successful than involving social services. |
Should it be a choice though?
It's a parent engaging in an action which could very well bring lasting harm to the child. Why should a parent's non-scientific views affect the future wellbeing of a child?
In France, vaccination is compulsory if you want your child to attend school [1].
SB
[1]. "Since January 2018, all infants born in metropolitan France must have received obligatory D, TT, acP, IPV, Hib, HepB, MMR, pneumococcal disease (PCV) and meningococcus C disease (MenC) vaccines before the age of two years to enter a school, day-care, summer camp or other children's community [2,3]." | | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:11 - Jul 13 with 1527 views | Swailsey |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:02 - Jul 13 by bluelagos |
Social services? Behave yerself.
The reason people don't vaccinate their kids is because they believe the vaccinations are harmful or risky, not as an act of neglect.
Of course people should be vaccinating their kids but that should be a choice and one we address through education.
I don't know how they are done, but could they be done at schools? And have an "opt in" assumption where kids are vaccinated unless a parent objects? And those parents could be invited to a chat with a medic to explain/reassure them?
Of course some will still refuse but an engaged way of tackling the issue has so be more likely to be successful than involving social services. |
I usually agree with pretty much everything you say, but I respectfully don’t here. It’s fundamental neglect of a duty of care, and it endangers others. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:19 - Jul 13 with 1479 views | bluelagos |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:11 - Jul 13 by Swailsey |
I usually agree with pretty much everything you say, but I respectfully don’t here. It’s fundamental neglect of a duty of care, and it endangers others. |
Disagreeing is fine mate.
I would ask you one simple question
Do you think the threat of social services would feed the narratives used by conspiracy theorists and anti-vaccers?
If you believe it would, then I would argue such an approach would lead to less, not more children being vaccinated in the long term.
Whether it is neglectful is a debate, my point is that such a route would lead to lower vaccinations rates not higher. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:21 - Jul 13 with 1473 views | bluelagos |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:09 - Jul 13 by StokieBlue |
Should it be a choice though?
It's a parent engaging in an action which could very well bring lasting harm to the child. Why should a parent's non-scientific views affect the future wellbeing of a child?
In France, vaccination is compulsory if you want your child to attend school [1].
SB
[1]. "Since January 2018, all infants born in metropolitan France must have received obligatory D, TT, acP, IPV, Hib, HepB, MMR, pneumococcal disease (PCV) and meningococcus C disease (MenC) vaccines before the age of two years to enter a school, day-care, summer camp or other children's community [2,3]." |
I think it should be a choice, absolutely.
What are you going to do, hold down children and forcibly inject them against their will? (And kids will believe their parents first and foremost) | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:23 - Jul 13 with 1463 views | m14_blue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:11 - Jul 13 by Swailsey |
I usually agree with pretty much everything you say, but I respectfully don’t here. It’s fundamental neglect of a duty of care, and it endangers others. |
Same, don’t think I’ve ever disagreed with BL before but I’d say that failing to vaccinate a child who subsequently becomes ill is absolutely neglect, regardless of intent. | | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:24 - Jul 13 with 1457 views | BlueBadger |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:11 - Jul 13 by Swailsey |
I usually agree with pretty much everything you say, but I respectfully don’t here. It’s fundamental neglect of a duty of care, and it endangers others. |
As I said below, on its own vaccine refusal is not a sign of neglect and/or abuse. Taken as part of a bundle, however, it IS a red flag. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:26 - Jul 13 with 1446 views | bluelagos |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:23 - Jul 13 by m14_blue |
Same, don’t think I’ve ever disagreed with BL before but I’d say that failing to vaccinate a child who subsequently becomes ill is absolutely neglect, regardless of intent. |
Listen, I don't disagree it's wrong not to vaccinate your kids. I'd actually agree it's neglectful, stupid and irresponsible.
But I don't think calling in social services is the appropriate response. I think that would be counter productive as a way of tackling low vaccination rates. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:29 - Jul 13 with 1427 views | m14_blue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:26 - Jul 13 by bluelagos |
Listen, I don't disagree it's wrong not to vaccinate your kids. I'd actually agree it's neglectful, stupid and irresponsible.
But I don't think calling in social services is the appropriate response. I think that would be counter productive as a way of tackling low vaccination rates. |
Yeah fair point and probably right | | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:31 - Jul 13 with 1424 views | bluelagos |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:24 - Jul 13 by BlueBadger |
As I said below, on its own vaccine refusal is not a sign of neglect and/or abuse. Taken as part of a bundle, however, it IS a red flag. |
I think there's a reason why during Covid we never adopted mandatory vaccinations. They knew it would be counter productive.
We never have and we have always tried to use education to change behaviour rather than compulsion or punishment.
I think people think strongly we should vaccinate our kids - just a difference of opinion on how we tackle those who don't..
Anyhow.....could rerun the whole Covid vaccinate debates here, I'll duck out now. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:34 - Jul 13 with 1405 views | bluelagos |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:29 - Jul 13 by m14_blue |
Yeah fair point and probably right |
Thx for the comment.
I'll enjoy what's left of the tennis :-)
Shaping up nicely though not as good as the Tour de France obviously*
*If that doesn't get us to 10 pages nothing will. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:36 - Jul 13 with 1399 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:19 - Jul 13 by bluelagos |
Disagreeing is fine mate.
I would ask you one simple question
Do you think the threat of social services would feed the narratives used by conspiracy theorists and anti-vaccers?
If you believe it would, then I would argue such an approach would lead to less, not more children being vaccinated in the long term.
Whether it is neglectful is a debate, my point is that such a route would lead to lower vaccinations rates not higher. |
It's an interesting one. Scientifically, the case for vaccination is about as clear cut as they come. Children are as much a responsibility of the state as they are their parents'. Hence why social services exists. I get your point that social service involvement would feed the conspiracy narrative.
I would also argue that vaccination through schools is not the solution as I expect there is a very high correlation between home schooling and anti-vaxers and pushing vaccination through the school system will increase that further.
I would also throw into the mix children who are influenced by these conspiracies and who have a fear of needles when it comes to those vaccines that are administered in later childhood.
Of course, education is the ideal but those who are persisting in an anti-vax narrative are not going to be easy to educate.
What is the answer? I don't know but I really don't like the situation we are in right now.
EDIT: I would also add that neglect does not have to be deliberate. Take something like Munchausen's by proxy. I am sure that sufferers genuinely think they are doing the best for their victims. [Post edited 13 Jul 17:38]
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:36 - Jul 13 with 1395 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:26 - Jul 13 by bluelagos |
Listen, I don't disagree it's wrong not to vaccinate your kids. I'd actually agree it's neglectful, stupid and irresponsible.
But I don't think calling in social services is the appropriate response. I think that would be counter productive as a way of tackling low vaccination rates. |
Agree that not vaccinating your kids is beyond daft and also that calling in social services is an overreach.
Education and information is the way forward as well as increasing trust in the state, which has to be earned. Also without wanting to open a can of worms too much areas with the largest amounts of immigration generally have the lowest rates of immunisation, see also blood donors, so should be actively encouraged and targeted( not sure targeted is the right word in this sensitive age). |  | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:37 - Jul 13 with 1395 views | StokieBlue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:21 - Jul 13 by bluelagos |
I think it should be a choice, absolutely.
What are you going to do, hold down children and forcibly inject them against their will? (And kids will believe their parents first and foremost) |
This is an interesting and quite difficult debate.
Clearly you can't force the parents to vaccinate their child but should access to services be restricted?
The French have set a precedence, it's still the choice of the parents, however if you chose to engage in something that could harm not only your child but other children then you are unable to access any state level services for that child.
So that is a pro-choice policy but the choice one makes has real-world implications.
To be honest I don't know the answer but if this trend of believing misinformation continues there are going to be some pretty horrible real-world consequences for many.
SB | | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:44 - Jul 13 with 1360 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:36 - Jul 13 by StNeotsBlue |
Agree that not vaccinating your kids is beyond daft and also that calling in social services is an overreach.
Education and information is the way forward as well as increasing trust in the state, which has to be earned. Also without wanting to open a can of worms too much areas with the largest amounts of immigration generally have the lowest rates of immunisation, see also blood donors, so should be actively encouraged and targeted( not sure targeted is the right word in this sensitive age). |
If your last assertion is correct (I don't know whether it is), the root cause is important. Is that cultural, due to immigration after the age we administer the vaccines, linked to language barriers or what? I would imagine a combination of those is likely but specifically dedicating resources to addressing most of those would probably be a wise thing to do. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 18:13 - Jul 13 with 1255 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:44 - Jul 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
If your last assertion is correct (I don't know whether it is), the root cause is important. Is that cultural, due to immigration after the age we administer the vaccines, linked to language barriers or what? I would imagine a combination of those is likely but specifically dedicating resources to addressing most of those would probably be a wise thing to do. |
Being facetious to quote the original post areas of London the level of immunisation is at 65%, that isn't down to likes of the Kray twins or Charlie Richardson being anti vac. I work with quite a lot of Polish guys and the majority weren't up for the Covid jabs. | | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:27 - Jul 13 with 1066 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:02 - Jul 13 by bluelagos |
Social services? Behave yerself.
The reason people don't vaccinate their kids is because they believe the vaccinations are harmful or risky, not as an act of neglect.
Of course people should be vaccinating their kids but that should be a choice and one we address through education.
I don't know how they are done, but could they be done at schools? And have an "opt in" assumption where kids are vaccinated unless a parent objects? And those parents could be invited to a chat with a medic to explain/reassure them?
Of course some will still refuse but an engaged way of tackling the issue has so be more likely to be successful than involving social services. |
I don't believe in forcing it on people as I agree that will lead to other problems. It's obviously an education piece.
I don't need to 'behave'. I think you are reading into the mention of 'social services' as immediately taking away kids. I'm saying there needs to be some intervention which could be an education piece but also a showing that the action of not doing this is extremely serious. Interesting to hear that it is flagged as a potential red flag. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:34 - Jul 13 with 1039 views | You_Bloo_Right |
I've read the thread and nothing I have seen distracts me from my view that measles vaccination is a "no brainer".
Measles is a killer.
We have a xaccine.
What is there to debtae? |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:50 - Jul 13 with 1016 views | MattinLondon |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:02 - Jul 13 by bluelagos |
Social services? Behave yerself.
The reason people don't vaccinate their kids is because they believe the vaccinations are harmful or risky, not as an act of neglect.
Of course people should be vaccinating their kids but that should be a choice and one we address through education.
I don't know how they are done, but could they be done at schools? And have an "opt in" assumption where kids are vaccinated unless a parent objects? And those parents could be invited to a chat with a medic to explain/reassure them?
Of course some will still refuse but an engaged way of tackling the issue has so be more likely to be successful than involving social services. |
Some people still think that smacking a young child is in their kids best interest…it’s not and it’s abuse.
If parents don’t vaccinate their kids then it is neglect no matter how they might feel. |  | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 03:55 - Jul 14 with 855 views | Benters |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:34 - Jul 13 by You_Bloo_Right |
I've read the thread and nothing I have seen distracts me from my view that measles vaccination is a "no brainer".
Measles is a killer.
We have a xaccine.
What is there to debtae? |
Spot on, |  |
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