| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now 14:59 - Jul 13 with 2463 views | StokieBlue |
We've seen the issue that measles has become in the US given the success of the anti-vax propaganda around the MMR vaccine but it's becoming an issue in the UK now with a death in Liverpool.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/13/parents-urged-to-get-children-va
"Uptake of the vaccine has fallen across the country in the past decade with rates across England now at 84%. In Liverpool, only 73% of children aged five have received the necessary two shots, while in parts of London uptake is below 65%. To ensure herd immunity, where enough people are protected to prevent the virus spreading, vaccination rates must hit 95%."
This is really disappointing, the MMR vaccine has shown to be safe and work incredibly well yet the pushing of discredited theories by people like RFK Jr has had a huge effect. He even still pushes Wakefield's discredited research.
It's a very sad state of affairs.
SB
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 06:00 - Jul 14 with 625 views | Churchman |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:09 - Jul 13 by StokieBlue |
Should it be a choice though?
It's a parent engaging in an action which could very well bring lasting harm to the child. Why should a parent's non-scientific views affect the future wellbeing of a child?
In France, vaccination is compulsory if you want your child to attend school [1].
SB
[1]. "Since January 2018, all infants born in metropolitan France must have received obligatory D, TT, acP, IPV, Hib, HepB, MMR, pneumococcal disease (PCV) and meningococcus C disease (MenC) vaccines before the age of two years to enter a school, day-care, summer camp or other children's community [2,3]." |
Interesting. I think the French are quite correct on this, as they are on a lot of things.
It should not be a choice. In my opinion to ignore vaccination because a few cranks like that swivel eyed, roadkill loving, nutjob Kennedy are spewing long disproved rubbish is a form of negligence.
If ‘’ma kidz, ma right to choose’ overrides this, the perhaps a few separate schools for those children somewhere in the country, not necessarily convenient to the parents, and an understanding that if they contract measles, the parents will be paying for all the treatment might encourage a rethink.
A little extreme maybe and will never happen, but the principle is sound in my view. |  | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 09:02 - Jul 14 with 530 views | Swansea_Blue |
Interesting interview with Liverpool’s Director of Public Health this morning. He downplayed the impact of the anti-vax movement and says there’s a lot more going on. He did say “vaccine hesitancy” is part of the problem, but only a small part. There’s a bigger issue with poverty and people having far more to worry about, including just trying to put food on the table. Vaccines aren’t a priority for people. Also there’s just plain ignorance around the benefits of vaccination.
I suppose now that we’ve eradicated many preventable diseases people forget or have never know how serious diseases like measles can be. I can understand why people may not be aware. So they see education and increasing access around child vaccination in particular as the way forward. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 09:13 - Jul 14 with 519 views | blueasfook |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 16:43 - Jul 13 by Nutkins_Return |
I think that is clear, sounds harsh but is just very very accurate.
Anti-vaxers are some of the most idiotic people. The selfishness of them as well. Being thick and deluded is ok until you start leading the kids dying because you are on some moronic crusade.
Need social services involved for anyone not vaccinating their kids unless some very good and evidenced based individual reason. |
It's not so much about anti-vaxxers in the UK. It's certain ethnic groups where vaccination take up is less.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(23)00458-3/fullt |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 09:30 - Jul 14 with 480 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 06:00 - Jul 14 by Churchman |
Interesting. I think the French are quite correct on this, as they are on a lot of things.
It should not be a choice. In my opinion to ignore vaccination because a few cranks like that swivel eyed, roadkill loving, nutjob Kennedy are spewing long disproved rubbish is a form of negligence.
If ‘’ma kidz, ma right to choose’ overrides this, the perhaps a few separate schools for those children somewhere in the country, not necessarily convenient to the parents, and an understanding that if they contract measles, the parents will be paying for all the treatment might encourage a rethink.
A little extreme maybe and will never happen, but the principle is sound in my view. |
"If ‘’ma kidz, ma right to choose’ overrides this....."
I had no idea that middle class hippy influencer yummy mummy home educators spoke like this! |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 09:35 - Jul 14 with 466 views | MattinLondon |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 09:02 - Jul 14 by Swansea_Blue |
Interesting interview with Liverpool’s Director of Public Health this morning. He downplayed the impact of the anti-vax movement and says there’s a lot more going on. He did say “vaccine hesitancy” is part of the problem, but only a small part. There’s a bigger issue with poverty and people having far more to worry about, including just trying to put food on the table. Vaccines aren’t a priority for people. Also there’s just plain ignorance around the benefits of vaccination.
I suppose now that we’ve eradicated many preventable diseases people forget or have never know how serious diseases like measles can be. I can understand why people may not be aware. So they see education and increasing access around child vaccination in particular as the way forward. |
How is poverty related to not vaccinating kids for measles etc? They’ve vaccinated at school and are free - all parents have to do is sign consent.
Same with pre-school children - vaccinations are free at their GP surgeries. |  | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 09:50 - Jul 14 with 446 views | LeoMuff |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 06:00 - Jul 14 by Churchman |
Interesting. I think the French are quite correct on this, as they are on a lot of things.
It should not be a choice. In my opinion to ignore vaccination because a few cranks like that swivel eyed, roadkill loving, nutjob Kennedy are spewing long disproved rubbish is a form of negligence.
If ‘’ma kidz, ma right to choose’ overrides this, the perhaps a few separate schools for those children somewhere in the country, not necessarily convenient to the parents, and an understanding that if they contract measles, the parents will be paying for all the treatment might encourage a rethink.
A little extreme maybe and will never happen, but the principle is sound in my view. |
I also agree with the French system, another factor is that some children cant have the vaccine if they are immunocompromised, taking some medications or are have had previous reactions.
Which of course exposes them to risk because due to ill informed choices |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 10:01 - Jul 14 with 433 views | DanTheMan |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 09:35 - Jul 14 by MattinLondon |
How is poverty related to not vaccinating kids for measles etc? They’ve vaccinated at school and are free - all parents have to do is sign consent.
Same with pre-school children - vaccinations are free at their GP surgeries. |
https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2024/12/11/study-finds-widening-inequalities-in-chi
There's some strong correlation at the very least, although the study does not dig into why it's happening from my skim read. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 10:19 - Jul 14 with 408 views | DJR |
The girl featured in this was in the same year as my daughter, and she remembers her mother objecting to the vaccines being offered at school and insisting her daughter take none of them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m002f2c4/panorama-cancer-conspiracy-theori
It is rather scary and sad and is well worth a watch. This is the blurb.
"Paloma Shemirani was just 23 when she died from cancer in 2024. She had rejected chemotherapy in favour of alternative treatments. Her brothers say that decision was influenced by their mother Kate Shemirani, a vocal British conspiracy theorist who shares misinformation about cancer. She disputes their account. So what really happened? Through testimony from family, friends and experts, Marianna Spring investigates Paloma's case and the rise of health conspiracy theories on social media following the pandemic. Are social media companies’ algorithms pushing potentially harmful content at vulnerable patients – and are anti-medicine ideas going mainstream?" [Post edited 14 Jul 10:29]
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 10:33 - Jul 14 with 386 views | Meadowlark |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:36 - Jul 13 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It's an interesting one. Scientifically, the case for vaccination is about as clear cut as they come. Children are as much a responsibility of the state as they are their parents'. Hence why social services exists. I get your point that social service involvement would feed the conspiracy narrative.
I would also argue that vaccination through schools is not the solution as I expect there is a very high correlation between home schooling and anti-vaxers and pushing vaccination through the school system will increase that further.
I would also throw into the mix children who are influenced by these conspiracies and who have a fear of needles when it comes to those vaccines that are administered in later childhood.
Of course, education is the ideal but those who are persisting in an anti-vax narrative are not going to be easy to educate.
What is the answer? I don't know but I really don't like the situation we are in right now.
EDIT: I would also add that neglect does not have to be deliberate. Take something like Munchausen's by proxy. I am sure that sufferers genuinely think they are doing the best for their victims. [Post edited 13 Jul 17:38]
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The phrase "hence why" is generally considered redundant and grammatically incorrect in formal writing. "Hence" and "why" both serve to indicate a reason or explanation, making their combination repetitive. You should use either "hence" or "why," but not both in the same sentence. |  | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 11:26 - Jul 14 with 351 views | Churchman |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 09:30 - Jul 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"If ‘’ma kidz, ma right to choose’ overrides this....."
I had no idea that middle class hippy influencer yummy mummy home educators spoke like this! |
More like the language of the thickos who live where I do wandering round Asda in dressing gowns and slippers. That’s not anecdotal. I’ve seen it.
Edit: my benefits defrauding neighbour doesn’t dress like the dregs of the planet that do, but nice though she is, she actually does speak that way in addition to driving around in her £60k Mercedes monster truck and complaining the parking spaces are too small. [Post edited 14 Jul 11:31]
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 20:23 - Jul 15 with 229 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 10:33 - Jul 14 by Meadowlark |
The phrase "hence why" is generally considered redundant and grammatically incorrect in formal writing. "Hence" and "why" both serve to indicate a reason or explanation, making their combination repetitive. You should use either "hence" or "why," but not both in the same sentence. |
Thank you. I will try to write betterer gramma in future! |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 20:27 - Jul 15 with 215 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I am sure there will be a link between poverty and poor attendance at school. Whilst there may be some catch up sessions at school, I doubt they would cover those who are absent on multiple vaccination opportunities.
There is also a link between poverty and poorer levels of education. Much education takes place outside school and if parents have lower intelligence and value education less there is a vicious circle at play. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 20:38 - Jul 15 with 204 views | Trequartista |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 17:02 - Jul 13 by bluelagos |
Social services? Behave yerself.
The reason people don't vaccinate their kids is because they believe the vaccinations are harmful or risky, not as an act of neglect.
Of course people should be vaccinating their kids but that should be a choice and one we address through education.
I don't know how they are done, but could they be done at schools? And have an "opt in" assumption where kids are vaccinated unless a parent objects? And those parents could be invited to a chat with a medic to explain/reassure them?
Of course some will still refuse but an engaged way of tackling the issue has so be more likely to be successful than involving social services. |
I disagree with compulsory vaccination but respect the argument for it. I just get that alarm bell of a step away from a free society. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 20:41 - Jul 15 with 197 views | Herbivore |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:27 - Jul 13 by Nutkins_Return |
I don't believe in forcing it on people as I agree that will lead to other problems. It's obviously an education piece.
I don't need to 'behave'. I think you are reading into the mention of 'social services' as immediately taking away kids. I'm saying there needs to be some intervention which could be an education piece but also a showing that the action of not doing this is extremely serious. Interesting to hear that it is flagged as a potential red flag. |
Social workers really don't have the time to be going round and lecturing parents about vaccinations, and if the parents turn round and tell them to do one, then they really don't have the teeth to do anything further. The only way they can force the child to have a vaccination is to apply for a care order, and the judge would laugh them out of court if they tried applying for a care order on the basis that the child hadn't been vaccinated. Really don't think it's a viable solution to be referring kids to social services if they aren't vaccinated, unless, as Badger notes, it's part of a wider pattern of neglect or abuse. |  |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 20:54 - Jul 15 with 176 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 09:35 - Jul 14 by MattinLondon |
How is poverty related to not vaccinating kids for measles etc? They’ve vaccinated at school and are free - all parents have to do is sign consent.
Same with pre-school children - vaccinations are free at their GP surgeries. |
I’ve no idea. This is what the Director for Public health for Liverpool was talking about. Poverty leading to poor health outcomes is a well known issue. I’m not sure how it translates into vaccine uptake in Liverpool, but the chap was highlighting it as one of the challenges.
If I had to guess, maybe the answer lies party in response to lower school attendance of poorer kids, maybe they don’t return the forms even if their kids go to school, or maybe parents don’t engage at all because they are more worried about how to feed their kids. I’m not sure. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 20:55 - Jul 15 with 171 views | StokieBlue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 20:41 - Jul 15 by Herbivore |
Social workers really don't have the time to be going round and lecturing parents about vaccinations, and if the parents turn round and tell them to do one, then they really don't have the teeth to do anything further. The only way they can force the child to have a vaccination is to apply for a care order, and the judge would laugh them out of court if they tried applying for a care order on the basis that the child hadn't been vaccinated. Really don't think it's a viable solution to be referring kids to social services if they aren't vaccinated, unless, as Badger notes, it's part of a wider pattern of neglect or abuse. |
What are your thoughts on the French system whereby state level child institutions are withdrawn if you don't vaccinate?
I agree social services can't be he police here.
SB | | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 21:40 - Jul 15 with 123 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 20:41 - Jul 15 by Herbivore |
Social workers really don't have the time to be going round and lecturing parents about vaccinations, and if the parents turn round and tell them to do one, then they really don't have the teeth to do anything further. The only way they can force the child to have a vaccination is to apply for a care order, and the judge would laugh them out of court if they tried applying for a care order on the basis that the child hadn't been vaccinated. Really don't think it's a viable solution to be referring kids to social services if they aren't vaccinated, unless, as Badger notes, it's part of a wider pattern of neglect or abuse. |
The law could be changed but, as you point out, social work is already overburdened beyond its funding. As I have stated above, it is not at all straightforward to find a good solution. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:15 - Jul 15 with 113 views | Herbivore |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 20:55 - Jul 15 by StokieBlue |
What are your thoughts on the French system whereby state level child institutions are withdrawn if you don't vaccinate?
I agree social services can't be he police here.
SB |
Tricky one. I think I'd favour a system of assumed consent with parents having to proactively opt out of their child having a vaccination. If they do so then the school could have the right to deny the child an ongoing place on the basis they could pose a health risk to others. The worry is these kids then get taken out of school and suffer in other ways. There's not necessarily an easy solution. | |
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| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:18 - Jul 15 with 105 views | StokieBlue |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:15 - Jul 15 by Herbivore |
Tricky one. I think I'd favour a system of assumed consent with parents having to proactively opt out of their child having a vaccination. If they do so then the school could have the right to deny the child an ongoing place on the basis they could pose a health risk to others. The worry is these kids then get taken out of school and suffer in other ways. There's not necessarily an easy solution. |
There definitely isn't any easy solution.
I think what you say could work but the key part of the French law and also what you've highlighted is that unvaccinated children pose a risk to others.
It's a difficult debate, the French have taken a strong position but it's one that would have to be defended.
SB | | | |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:28 - Jul 15 with 96 views | SimonBatfordITFC |
| Measles becoming an issue in the UK now on 22:15 - Jul 15 by Herbivore |
Tricky one. I think I'd favour a system of assumed consent with parents having to proactively opt out of their child having a vaccination. If they do so then the school could have the right to deny the child an ongoing place on the basis they could pose a health risk to others. The worry is these kids then get taken out of school and suffer in other ways. There's not necessarily an easy solution. |
I think that’s a very valid solution although of the handful of anti-vaxxer parents I’ve come across not many send their kids to school anyway. Instead they choose to “home school” but that usually entails watching TV whilst they check their socials. |  | | |
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