| Junior Doctors 09:08 - Jul 25 with 8010 views | Chris_ITFC |
Yeah, I want a 30% pay rise too mate. |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 01:06 - Jul 26 with 672 views | Herbivore |
| Junior Doctors on 00:56 - Jul 26 by StNeotsBlue |
It's is late on a Friday night but even so that is a serious lack of self-awareness, mate. |
Lack of all forms of awareness on your part I'd say. |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 01:15 - Jul 26 with 665 views | vinceg |
Genuine question from someone in the private sector. Do junior doctors get any type of bonus in addition, or is their remuneration entirely salary based?
Only asking as I'm trying to do the comparitive maths on my remuneration before I take sides. My increments over the last 15 years or so have involved 0% payrises for probably half of them, but have had smallish bonuses pretty much every year in lieu (or in addition where I did get a raise). |  | | |
| Junior Doctors on 02:51 - Jul 26 with 643 views | Ryorry |
| Junior Doctors on 00:33 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
Why do you feel the need to make stuff up and try to wind people up on a forum for fans of a provincial second tier football team? What life choices have you made that have led you to the point where this is how you get your kicks? |
Just out of interest, how is referencing ITFC as a “provincial second tier football team” relevant to the debate? Only asking cos this being mentioned always amuses me - as if his argument would have more credence if we were Premier League Champions.
And whilst the description is factually correct, it also seems just an unnecessarily negative take on our club, coming from one of its fans. |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 04:39 - Jul 26 with 619 views | Benters |
| Junior Doctors on 00:33 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
Why do you feel the need to make stuff up and try to wind people up on a forum for fans of a provincial second tier football team? What life choices have you made that have led you to the point where this is how you get your kicks? |
Poor show,mate. |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 04:43 - Jul 26 with 619 views | Benters |
Whilst I agree it is one hell of a increase they are asking for.
As someone who spent four days in Hospital in May,I think right across the board anyone who works for the NHS should be paid handsomely.
That’s my take on it anyway. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 06:56 - Jul 26 with 560 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Junior Doctors on 01:15 - Jul 26 by vinceg |
Genuine question from someone in the private sector. Do junior doctors get any type of bonus in addition, or is their remuneration entirely salary based?
Only asking as I'm trying to do the comparitive maths on my remuneration before I take sides. My increments over the last 15 years or so have involved 0% payrises for probably half of them, but have had smallish bonuses pretty much every year in lieu (or in addition where I did get a raise). |
Like an annual bonus? Er, no. That’s a private sector thing. Public sector execs can get bonuses, but staff don’t. But often the pension or other parts of the employment package (e.g. flexible working or sick pay term) are more generous.
I’m not speaking from NHS experience, but I’m pretty sure resident docs don’t get bonuses. The other thing with the public(! Edited) sector is you’re not guaranteed an annual increment. Jobs are strictly graded. Once you reach the top of the scale (normally 4 or 5 grades a scale) that’s it. You rely on pay awards for any increase in salary, irrespective of how good you might be. [Post edited 26 Jul 8:28]
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| Junior Doctors on 07:21 - Jul 26 with 525 views | DJR |
| Junior Doctors on 15:58 - Jul 25 by jontysnut |
Resident doctors have a case in that their pay hasn't kept pace with inflation. However you can say that for nearly everyone in the public sector and probably a big chunk of workers in the private sector. The BMA is always in a strong negotiating position given the implications of doctors taking industrial action. They don't have to concede anything. On the other no-one, other than those involved, seems to be too bothered about bin workers in Birmingham facing an £8,000 pay cut or nurses resorting to food banks. |
Prior to 2008 wages in all sectors were rising above inflation, so the gap between wages now and what they would have been had they carried on rising as they were is even greater.
And your point about the bin workers is a very good one. [Post edited 26 Jul 7:31]
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| Junior Doctors on 07:25 - Jul 26 with 521 views | DJR |
Here is a recent Full Fact article on the pay of resident doctors for anyone who might be interested.
https://fullfact.org/health/resident-doctors-pay-how-much-do-they-earn-and-what-
It includes the following.
"This shows that in practice, resident doctors typically earn roughly a third more than their basic salary from other sources. Most of the extra pay comes from working extra hours and working unsocial hours, but it also includes geographic differences and other things."
So any doctor you see working at night or at weekends will be earning extra pay, not that there are many doctors in a hospital at weekends. [Post edited 26 Jul 7:27]
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| Junior Doctors on 08:02 - Jul 26 with 475 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Junior Doctors on 10:41 - Jul 25 by BloomBlue |
Don't see the problem. The books have to balance, give them the pay they want, but pay for it by reducing the spending from another area within the NHS. Or better still reduce the waste in the NHS. Like too many public sectors, ie the military, there is so much waste you could save billions if you reduced the waste. There needs to be a bottom to top reform and reduce the waste. |
You sound like a real expert on the NHS. So would you care to elaborate on where there "there is so much waste you could save billions?
Your post is the sort of uninformed right wing BS trotted out by rags like the Mail and the Express.
I work in the NHS, and have done for over 30 years (as well as working in the private sector). And I'm proud of how efficient we are - way, way more so than the private sector. The actual fact is that the NHS is often forced into spending on things that it shouldn't have to if it was better funded. Buildings are falling apart, but there's no money to replace them, so millions get spent on patching things up. That isn't inefficiency in the NHS, that's the lack of cash in government. Same with old broken equipment.
The whole argument about pay rises and "where is the magic money tree" points to an even bigger question. Where has all the money gone?
The answer is simple. There are a relatively small number of people who are mega rich, incomes of millions each year. Society is so distorted now, and the narrative of the right is to blame it on anyone but the mega rich. Blame it on the boats. Blame it on the inefficient public sector. Blame it on the unemployed.
A society where some can't afford food or heating in the cold, whilst other think its ok to have super yachts and multiple mansions is a messed up society. There's enough money, in the system, its just in the wrong places and the mega rich don't pay their taxes. |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 08:30 - Jul 26 with 437 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Junior Doctors on 08:02 - Jul 26 by LegendofthePhoenix |
You sound like a real expert on the NHS. So would you care to elaborate on where there "there is so much waste you could save billions?
Your post is the sort of uninformed right wing BS trotted out by rags like the Mail and the Express.
I work in the NHS, and have done for over 30 years (as well as working in the private sector). And I'm proud of how efficient we are - way, way more so than the private sector. The actual fact is that the NHS is often forced into spending on things that it shouldn't have to if it was better funded. Buildings are falling apart, but there's no money to replace them, so millions get spent on patching things up. That isn't inefficiency in the NHS, that's the lack of cash in government. Same with old broken equipment.
The whole argument about pay rises and "where is the magic money tree" points to an even bigger question. Where has all the money gone?
The answer is simple. There are a relatively small number of people who are mega rich, incomes of millions each year. Society is so distorted now, and the narrative of the right is to blame it on anyone but the mega rich. Blame it on the boats. Blame it on the inefficient public sector. Blame it on the unemployed.
A society where some can't afford food or heating in the cold, whilst other think its ok to have super yachts and multiple mansions is a messed up society. There's enough money, in the system, its just in the wrong places and the mega rich don't pay their taxes. |
I assume the NHS (we really, as ultimately it’s public money) also loses a lot of money to profits for suppliers, many of whom will be taking those profits out of the UK? | |
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| Junior Doctors on 08:37 - Jul 26 with 407 views | Herbivore |
| Junior Doctors on 02:51 - Jul 26 by Ryorry |
Just out of interest, how is referencing ITFC as a “provincial second tier football team” relevant to the debate? Only asking cos this being mentioned always amuses me - as if his argument would have more credence if we were Premier League Champions.
And whilst the description is factually correct, it also seems just an unnecessarily negative take on our club, coming from one of its fans. |
He doesn't have an argument, he's a troll who has decided to troll fans of a provincial second tier football team. Unless he's a Norwich fan, it's a very odd choice of target to troll. He could hit up mumsnet or reddit instead, they have loads more users than us. And I imagine the likes of United and Arsenal probably have forums with much larger numbers of users where he could get his kicks. Just seems a very strange choice of people to troll. I don't really see how a factually accurate description of us is negative, it's just stating what we are. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 08:46 - Jul 26 with 405 views | SimonBatfordITFC |
| Junior Doctors on 08:37 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
He doesn't have an argument, he's a troll who has decided to troll fans of a provincial second tier football team. Unless he's a Norwich fan, it's a very odd choice of target to troll. He could hit up mumsnet or reddit instead, they have loads more users than us. And I imagine the likes of United and Arsenal probably have forums with much larger numbers of users where he could get his kicks. Just seems a very strange choice of people to troll. I don't really see how a factually accurate description of us is negative, it's just stating what we are. |
It’s a very strange choice of attack just because I disagreed with you. Many posters called you out on it. Not a good look to be doubling down. |  | | |
| Junior Doctors on 08:52 - Jul 26 with 387 views | StokieBlue |
| Junior Doctors on 08:46 - Jul 26 by SimonBatfordITFC |
It’s a very strange choice of attack just because I disagreed with you. Many posters called you out on it. Not a good look to be doubling down. |
Why have you changed your signature?
If it wasn't trolling why didn't you leave it?
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| Junior Doctors on 09:06 - Jul 26 with 360 views | Herbivore |
| Junior Doctors on 08:46 - Jul 26 by SimonBatfordITFC |
It’s a very strange choice of attack just because I disagreed with you. Many posters called you out on it. Not a good look to be doubling down. |
I'm calling you a troll because you're a troll. Pretty much everyone can see it and multiple posters have pointed out that you are very obviously a troll. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 09:17 - Jul 26 with 361 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Junior Doctors on 08:30 - Jul 26 by Swansea_Blue |
I assume the NHS (we really, as ultimately it’s public money) also loses a lot of money to profits for suppliers, many of whom will be taking those profits out of the UK? |
There's a lot of talk about the NHS overpaying for various supplies and services. Some truth in it, but mostly as a result of a lack of competition in the market place, so suppliers who have managed to create a monopoly, or duoply in some instances, can rip off. But over the past couple of decades, the NHS has got much better and more rigorous, at procurement.
At a national level, NICE are doing a great job at driving down the cost of phaarmaceuticals.
Probably the worst area for vfm is finding contractors for building works - I'm constantly shocked at how expensive it is to refurbish treatment rooms etc. I suppose with local building contractors, the money remains in the UK, but the costs are so high because of the very high standards that have to be met. For example, if a treatment room is going t have anything more than a lick of paint, the entire room has to be brought up to current HBN (Health Building Note) standards - which means the air handling has to meet strict requirements, often meaning a new AHU has to be installed on the roof, at a cost of £200k - £400k. All NHS equipment has to meet strict CE marks etc. So whilst you can buy a blood pressure monitor off amazon for £40, to buy one that meets all the standards required for professional use in a hospital (including networking etc.) may cost £1200 - £1500. That isn't inefficiency. It's the cost of doing things properly. [Post edited 27 Jul 6:18]
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| Junior Doctors on 09:33 - Jul 26 with 340 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Junior Doctors on 09:17 - Jul 26 by LegendofthePhoenix |
There's a lot of talk about the NHS overpaying for various supplies and services. Some truth in it, but mostly as a result of a lack of competition in the market place, so suppliers who have managed to create a monopoly, or duoply in some instances, can rip off. But over the past couple of decades, the NHS has got much better and more rigorous, at procurement.
At a national level, NICE are doing a great job at driving down the cost of phaarmaceuticals.
Probably the worst area for vfm is finding contractors for building works - I'm constantly shocked at how expensive it is to refurbish treatment rooms etc. I suppose with local building contractors, the money remains in the UK, but the costs are so high because of the very high standards that have to be met. For example, if a treatment room is going t have anything more than a lick of paint, the entire room has to be brought up to current HBN (Health Building Note) standards - which means the air handling has to meet strict requirements, often meaning a new AHU has to be installed on the roof, at a cost of £200k - £400k. All NHS equipment has to meet strict CE marks etc. So whilst you can buy a blood pressure monitor off amazon for £40, to buy one that meets all the standards required for professional use in a hospital (including networking etc.) may cost £1200 - £1500. That isn't inefficiency. It's the cost of doing things properly. [Post edited 27 Jul 6:18]
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There is undoubtedly waste and bureaucracy built into many public sector setups.
But the biggest inefficiences are created by undervaluing the people, and under resourcing things, such that basic tasks take more effort and time than is necessary, have to be corrected, re-done etc etc. | | | |
| Junior Doctors on 09:47 - Jul 26 with 327 views | Benters |
| Junior Doctors on 09:06 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
I'm calling you a troll because you're a troll. Pretty much everyone can see it and multiple posters have pointed out that you are very obviously a troll. |
Why is he a troll ?
Just because he doesn’t go with the majority on here which is the hard left ?
Is that your take on it? | |
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| Junior Doctors on 09:56 - Jul 26 with 302 views | Herbivore |
| Junior Doctors on 09:47 - Jul 26 by Benters |
Why is he a troll ?
Just because he doesn’t go with the majority on here which is the hard left ?
Is that your take on it? |
Unlike you to not pay attention, mate. [Post edited 26 Jul 9:57]
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| Junior Doctors on 10:26 - Jul 26 with 263 views | StokieBlue |
| Junior Doctors on 09:47 - Jul 26 by Benters |
Why is he a troll ?
Just because he doesn’t go with the majority on here which is the hard left ?
Is that your take on it? |
Even if the majority is hard left (which it clearly isn't) it's because many of your associates have been banned for horrible views. Much like you were for a good period of time.
He's a troll, a liar and a disingenuous poster. It's got nothing to do with left or right like you always seem to think but about content. It's actually become rather pathetic to continually blame "the hard left" for things you don't like on here.
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| Junior Doctors on 10:29 - Jul 26 with 254 views | Benters |
| Junior Doctors on 10:26 - Jul 26 by StokieBlue |
Even if the majority is hard left (which it clearly isn't) it's because many of your associates have been banned for horrible views. Much like you were for a good period of time.
He's a troll, a liar and a disingenuous poster. It's got nothing to do with left or right like you always seem to think but about content. It's actually become rather pathetic to continually blame "the hard left" for things you don't like on here.
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Oh come of it we all know this is a Labour hardcore site.
I was banned because I had a row with Spruce. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 10:30 - Jul 26 with 246 views | Benters |
| Junior Doctors on 09:56 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
Unlike you to not pay attention, mate. [Post edited 26 Jul 9:57]
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Thanks.
Mate. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 10:31 - Jul 26 with 244 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Junior Doctors on 10:29 - Jul 26 by Benters |
Oh come of it we all know this is a Labour hardcore site.
I was banned because I had a row with Spruce. |
In what way is it a labour hardcore site? Bizarre.
Its a mixture of all sorts of football supporters. Possibly leaning towards people who are inclined to spend time on the internet- which possibly provides a slight lean towards people with higher eduction etc. Possibly. And that demographic tends to be a little more left leaning. Thats about as highly as you can put the case for this being a "hard left" site. | | | |
| Junior Doctors on 10:31 - Jul 26 with 244 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| Junior Doctors on 10:29 - Jul 26 by Benters |
Oh come of it we all know this is a Labour hardcore site.
I was banned because I had a row with Spruce. |
Not cause of the whole gunning down immigrants at the tunnel thing? Or was that spruce's fault too? |  | | |
| Junior Doctors on 10:32 - Jul 26 with 238 views | Ryorry |
| Junior Doctors on 09:33 - Jul 26 by redrickstuhaart |
There is undoubtedly waste and bureaucracy built into many public sector setups.
But the biggest inefficiences are created by undervaluing the people, and under resourcing things, such that basic tasks take more effort and time than is necessary, have to be corrected, re-done etc etc. |
And in the case of the NHS, not having an inefficient, out of date computer system that can’t even keep people’s names and addresses up to date 5 years after they’ve moved house (correct at GP surgery but not at local hospital they’re referred to) resulting in appointment letters arriving the day after appointments etc. (missed appointments are expensive, we are told).
Not to mention other expensive failures to communicate, such as not informing patients they’ll have to stay overnight in hospital after some day procedures - but could have gone home if they’d been told to organise a friend or relative to stay that night with them. How many beds are quite unnecessarily blocked up that way, I wonder.
Not just my experience but that of others I’ve heard on phone-ins such as R5l. [Post edited 26 Jul 10:35]
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| Junior Doctors on 10:35 - Jul 26 with 226 views | StokieBlue |
| Junior Doctors on 10:29 - Jul 26 by Benters |
Oh come of it we all know this is a Labour hardcore site.
I was banned because I had a row with Spruce. |
This isn't true, what you mean is that lots of people have views to the left of you which I suspect, given your views, isn't unusual for a lot of the country.
You'd see more things you agreed with if those people hadn't been banned for posting offensive things.
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