| Junior Doctors 09:08 - Jul 25 with 7708 views | Chris_ITFC |
Yeah, I want a 30% pay rise too mate. |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:05 - Jul 25 with 677 views | Ryorry |
| Junior Doctors on 10:51 - Jul 25 by StokieBlue |
So as long as it's a clap on the doorstep in recognition then there is no issue but having to actually pay them is a different matter?
SB |
So far as I can see in this thread, no one’s objected to having to pay them more, like 6.5% annually.
Just not 30% all at once, which would break the country (including the NHS) even more than it is already, when the nurses, porters etc. quite understandably followed suit. |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:11 - Jul 25 with 650 views | StokieBlue |
| Junior Doctors on 11:05 - Jul 25 by Ryorry |
So far as I can see in this thread, no one’s objected to having to pay them more, like 6.5% annually.
Just not 30% all at once, which would break the country (including the NHS) even more than it is already, when the nurses, porters etc. quite understandably followed suit. |
If you follow that you'll still need to pay the nurses and porters in the same staggered way.
I've not seen a comparison of nurses pay rises vs doctors though and don't know if they have the same historical issues.
The reality here is if people want the NHS then it needs paying for, if that's through more taxation then that's how it needs to be. Trouble is there is a good subset of people who will want a better NHS but without more taxation.
SB |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:11 - Jul 25 with 646 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Junior Doctors on 11:01 - Jul 25 by StokieBlue |
I'm not convinced it's a strawman.
You've cited they should get more money but we can't and shouldn't pay them more money so the implication is doing something else would be fine.
Plenty of people happy to clap but not happy to see pay rises.
SB |
It obviously is.
I incredibly clearly object to the *scale* of the pay rise (30%), not the principle of a pay rise. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:12 - Jul 25 with 638 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Junior Doctors on 11:01 - Jul 25 by StokieBlue |
I'm not convinced it's a strawman.
You've cited they should get more money but we can't and shouldn't pay them more money so the implication is doing something else would be fine.
Plenty of people happy to clap but not happy to see pay rises.
SB |
I think he’s objecting to the scale of the rise rather than the principle of them having a payrise. That’s how I read it and I’d agree. I have family working for the NHS we all want to see them get a fair increase, as that’s not been the case in many years. 30pc whether just a starting point or not is a fairly aggressive number. |  | | |
| Junior Doctors on 11:12 - Jul 25 with 638 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Junior Doctors on 11:11 - Jul 25 by StokieBlue |
If you follow that you'll still need to pay the nurses and porters in the same staggered way.
I've not seen a comparison of nurses pay rises vs doctors though and don't know if they have the same historical issues.
The reality here is if people want the NHS then it needs paying for, if that's through more taxation then that's how it needs to be. Trouble is there is a good subset of people who will want a better NHS but without more taxation.
SB |
But I commend you for actually suggesting a method you support to pay for it (higher taxes). | |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:15 - Jul 25 with 613 views | StokieBlue |
| Junior Doctors on 11:11 - Jul 25 by Chris_ITFC |
It obviously is.
I incredibly clearly object to the *scale* of the pay rise (30%), not the principle of a pay rise. |
Fair enough.
It was really specifically aimed at you, probably should have replied to the opening post but it is frustrating that many were happy to clap but not happy to do what is needed to fund.
SB | |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:16 - Jul 25 with 605 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Junior Doctors on 11:05 - Jul 25 by Ryorry |
So far as I can see in this thread, no one’s objected to having to pay them more, like 6.5% annually.
Just not 30% all at once, which would break the country (including the NHS) even more than it is already, when the nurses, porters etc. quite understandably followed suit. |
There are smarter ways to give them the rise without actually increasing their pay (such that your average football messageboard contributor would find it hard to argue against).
Given that doctors come out of training with a debt, interest-bearing, of over 100k [like, paying for their own apprenticeship], an interest moratorium would make some difference.
But that doesn't quite solve it of course. We need to lock them in as qualified docs can and do earn much, much more in other countries.
So, in addition to the interest moratorium (5% value?) reduce that 100k debt by 10k each year that the doc continues to work for the NHS. Paying 10k out of salary would be net of 40% tax, so would take around 16k a year out of 100k of salary.
This gives no pay rise, locks then in up to a decade, and is worth over 20% to them. | | | |
| Junior Doctors on 11:20 - Jul 25 with 583 views | Mullet |
| Junior Doctors on 10:41 - Jul 25 by Chris_ITFC |
The whole country got screwed over by the Tories. Inflation, mortgages, taxes…
We’re all worse off. We aren’t getting 30% pay rises (and nor are they), because the country can’t afford it (unless you wish to explain otherwise).
It wouldn’t matter if my employer recognised unions or not (they don’t). But the whole country striking from a completely ludicrous negotiating position sounds a great idea. |
So doctors were all immune from that as well as being chronically underpaid like most vital workers? All I hear is selfishness and finger pointing thus far from you. What stops you moving jobs compared to a medical professional.
Whilst I think streeting has tried to head this off, he’s not had the time or the resources to do it properly, negotiation is necessary. |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:22 - Jul 25 with 575 views | Ryorry |
| Junior Doctors on 11:11 - Jul 25 by StokieBlue |
If you follow that you'll still need to pay the nurses and porters in the same staggered way.
I've not seen a comparison of nurses pay rises vs doctors though and don't know if they have the same historical issues.
The reality here is if people want the NHS then it needs paying for, if that's through more taxation then that's how it needs to be. Trouble is there is a good subset of people who will want a better NHS but without more taxation.
SB |
I’ve said several times on here that I’d be perfectly happy to pay an extra 1p or even 2p extra income tax if it were ring-fenced for the NHS/care system. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:26 - Jul 25 with 550 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Junior Doctors on 11:20 - Jul 25 by Mullet |
So doctors were all immune from that as well as being chronically underpaid like most vital workers? All I hear is selfishness and finger pointing thus far from you. What stops you moving jobs compared to a medical professional.
Whilst I think streeting has tried to head this off, he’s not had the time or the resources to do it properly, negotiation is necessary. |
Oh, I see.
I didn't think I needed to say this, but... my OP is completely, deliberately facetious.
I don't *actually* want a 30% pay rise. I said it to demonstrate the ludicrous nature of their position, and how out of line it is with the general public. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:27 - Jul 25 with 548 views | tcblue |
This is a nice distraction than actually thinking about what's causing the ridiculous wealth distribution problems ramp up over the past twenty odd years.
But I'm sure we have to be worried about the billionaires taking their unfairly low tax contributions to another country. | | | |
| Junior Doctors on 11:28 - Jul 25 with 542 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Junior Doctors on 11:15 - Jul 25 by StokieBlue |
Fair enough.
It was really specifically aimed at you, probably should have replied to the opening post but it is frustrating that many were happy to clap but not happy to do what is needed to fund.
SB |
People would support a pay rise for doctors.
But people see the 30% headline and wonder what planet they live on.
It turns everyone off; it makes the government's life easier, not harder; it's dumb.. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:31 - Jul 25 with 531 views | thebooks |
| Junior Doctors on 10:43 - Jul 25 by Chris_ITFC |
Fair. 
But the point stands. They may as well be asking for gold Bentleys and Caribbean holidays, because it’s about as realistic.
What gets cut to pay for a 30% increase in NHS salaries? And then when the police, civil servants, carers, when they all want 30% too?
Sure, they deserve it. But money doesn’t grow on…  |
Well, I just don’t buy that x has to be cut in order to pay for y (I make no comment on the realism of the demand, but I back it 100%). This is austerity logic, and based on a profound misunderstanding of how government finances work.
If your next question is “which taxes?”… start by aligning capital gains tax with income tax and increasing corporation tax on huge businesses. |  | | |
| Junior Doctors on 11:33 - Jul 25 with 520 views | Mullet |
| Junior Doctors on 11:26 - Jul 25 by Chris_ITFC |
Oh, I see.
I didn't think I needed to say this, but... my OP is completely, deliberately facetious.
I don't *actually* want a 30% pay rise. I said it to demonstrate the ludicrous nature of their position, and how out of line it is with the general public. |
So are their pay and conditions but that doesn’t seem to bother you. Being facetious doesn’t mitigate being ignorant or selfish. The NHS like many public sector jobs has been wrecked by people who can afford to go private. Leaving us to suffer the consequences.
You’re lashing out at the wrong people. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:35 - Jul 25 with 516 views | tetchris |
Everyone is entitled to strike for better pay. One thing I’m against is them claiming overtime for the time they have to spend catching up because they have been on strike. Bit of a p*ss take. If you strike you shouldn’t get paid or be able to claim overtime in those circumstances. | | | |
| Junior Doctors on 11:38 - Jul 25 with 502 views | Chris_ITFC |
| Junior Doctors on 11:33 - Jul 25 by Mullet |
So are their pay and conditions but that doesn’t seem to bother you. Being facetious doesn’t mitigate being ignorant or selfish. The NHS like many public sector jobs has been wrecked by people who can afford to go private. Leaving us to suffer the consequences.
You’re lashing out at the wrong people. |
Junior Doctors by Ryorry 25 Jul 11:05So far as I can see in this thread, no one’s objected to having to pay them more, like 6.5% annually.
Just not 30% all at once, which would break the country (including the NHS) even more than it is already, when the nurses, porters etc. quite understandably followed suit.
Passionate principles are great (generally), but they have to be grounded in reality. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:49 - Jul 25 with 465 views | Benters |
| Junior Doctors on 10:55 - Jul 25 by leitrimblue |
What do you do for a job Chris? |
Trunky wanna bun? |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 11:52 - Jul 25 with 454 views | pointofblue |
| Junior Doctors on 11:33 - Jul 25 by Mullet |
So are their pay and conditions but that doesn’t seem to bother you. Being facetious doesn’t mitigate being ignorant or selfish. The NHS like many public sector jobs has been wrecked by people who can afford to go private. Leaving us to suffer the consequences.
You’re lashing out at the wrong people. |
Though isn't the argument that everyone in the pay sector has suffered in this way? Nurses, firefighters, police officers, social workers... Actually everyone in the private sector as well but they don't "serve" the country in the same manner.
The general argument is a robust one. The amount requested and timing of this, so soon after an inflation busting rise, isn't. What it should do, as some have said, is instigate a further discussion on taxation, but time is needed to implement it. [Post edited 25 Jul 12:04]
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| Junior Doctors on 12:00 - Jul 25 with 435 views | tcblue |
| Junior Doctors on 11:52 - Jul 25 by pointofblue |
Though isn't the argument that everyone in the pay sector has suffered in this way? Nurses, firefighters, police officers, social workers... Actually everyone in the private sector as well but they don't "serve" the country in the same manner.
The general argument is a robust one. The amount requested and timing of this, so soon after an inflation busting rise, isn't. What it should do, as some have said, is instigate a further discussion on taxation, but time is needed to implement it. [Post edited 25 Jul 12:04]
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No, we should be asking what we need to do to make sure the most important roles in our society are desirable for attract new workers and keep the existing ones.
And what caused this to be problematic in the first place.
It's frustrating that in 2025 we're still so gullible as a nation | | | |
| Junior Doctors on 12:01 - Jul 25 with 431 views | Meadowlark |
| Junior Doctors on 10:41 - Jul 25 by Chris_ITFC |
The whole country got screwed over by the Tories. Inflation, mortgages, taxes…
We’re all worse off. We aren’t getting 30% pay rises (and nor are they), because the country can’t afford it (unless you wish to explain otherwise).
It wouldn’t matter if my employer recognised unions or not (they don’t). But the whole country striking from a completely ludicrous negotiating position sounds a great idea. |
The whole country striking would be a very strong position! I wish it would happen. You paid more tax last year than Starbucks, for example and proportionally more than Amazon, water companies, Google etc etc |  | | |
| Junior Doctors on 12:01 - Jul 25 with 430 views | giant_stow |
| Junior Doctors on 11:31 - Jul 25 by thebooks |
Well, I just don’t buy that x has to be cut in order to pay for y (I make no comment on the realism of the demand, but I back it 100%). This is austerity logic, and based on a profound misunderstanding of how government finances work.
If your next question is “which taxes?”… start by aligning capital gains tax with income tax and increasing corporation tax on huge businesses. |
"This is austerity logic, and based on a profound misunderstanding of how government finances work."
Any chance of fleshing that out please? |  |
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| Junior Doctors on 12:02 - Jul 25 with 428 views | leitrimblue |
| Junior Doctors on 11:49 - Jul 25 by Benters |
Trunky wanna bun? |
Ehh? |  | | |
| Junior Doctors on 12:03 - Jul 25 with 428 views | bsw72 |
Give them the pay rise, but change their defined benefit pension scheme to a defined contribution scheme to pay for it, also amend the contribution amounts that the employer (NHS) pays in. |  | | |
| Junior Doctors on 12:15 - Jul 25 with 403 views | Mullet |
| Junior Doctors on 11:52 - Jul 25 by pointofblue |
Though isn't the argument that everyone in the pay sector has suffered in this way? Nurses, firefighters, police officers, social workers... Actually everyone in the private sector as well but they don't "serve" the country in the same manner.
The general argument is a robust one. The amount requested and timing of this, so soon after an inflation busting rise, isn't. What it should do, as some have said, is instigate a further discussion on taxation, but time is needed to implement it. [Post edited 25 Jul 12:04]
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Which is pretty much what I’m saying, but the public should know how much public servants have been underpaid for so long. This is why Labour should be attacking tax dodgers and the like far harder, far more vigorously and fund wages, training and improvements.
The fact that there is different unions of different strengths is not something we can do much about. The idea of a mass strike only harms the country. But it’s always baffling how the general public don’t understand the differences in the private sector to the public one. So we end up with threads like this. | |
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| Junior Doctors on 12:20 - Jul 25 with 400 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Junior Doctors on 10:32 - Jul 25 by giant_stow |
Has anyone got a figure for what meeting rhe drs'demands would cost? I seem to remember it being £1b, but that seems high. What ever it is, I wonder how much it would be to give porters, cleaners, admin and nurses the same increase?
With an (extremely) limited governmental pot, I'd sooner see the less well off staff bumped up first. |
£350 million extra per week should cover it  |  |
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