| Woolfenden and Burgess 11:39 - Sep 1 with 1725 views | StevieH |
is a better CB pairing than O'Shea and Greaves.
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:42 - Sep 1 with 1405 views | Clutch |
No its not. |  | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:44 - Sep 1 with 1354 views | pointofblue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:42 - Sep 1 by Clutch |
No its not. |
I think the issue is O'Shea and Greaves really don't seem to be building an understanding, despite starting a number of games together both last season and this. That lack of understanding led to Derby's penalty on Saturday. It's not as though they haven't had time together.
O'Shea & Burgess and Woolfenden & Greaves looked much better as partnerships last season. It's another example of going from more than the sum of our parts to less. |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:44 - Sep 1 with 1356 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
We were hardly convincing defensively with those 2 in the championship.
Much better in possession though. Helped maybe by having a keeper who didn't look terrified with the ball at his feet. |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:45 - Sep 1 with 1354 views | burnbudgiesburn |
Even if you believe it to be true, its amazing how great players become when they are no longer in the team isn't it?
I think both Greaves/O'Shea have higher ceilings than both but are yet to perform to the level I hoped. That's a completely different argument though. | | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:49 - Sep 1 with 1254 views | AWOL |
One is in Swansea and one will be in Coventry.
It was an amazing couple of years.
Time to move on. | | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:49 - Sep 1 with 1249 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:42 - Sep 1 by Clutch |
No its not. |
Yes it is. |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:51 - Sep 1 with 1216 views | HighgateBlue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:44 - Sep 1 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
We were hardly convincing defensively with those 2 in the championship.
Much better in possession though. Helped maybe by having a keeper who didn't look terrified with the ball at his feet. |
I don't think they were any worse defensively. And as you say, better in possession, especially Woolfy. They played more of a part in getting the ball forward quickly. Also Leif at left back was far more successful than he's been this season at contributing offensively, and yet that did not destabilize the CD pairing or put them under more pressure than they could handle.
Is it a personnel problem in the back 5 (choosing to spend money on expensive replacements, and then binning one of them (Muric) and having to replace him with what was available), or is it a coaching problem, or a tinkering problem (Davis being asked to change his successful role by inverting)? Or is it a mixture of some or all of these?
Either way, our problems in scoring goals in open play is much more significant. I do think that getting the ball forwards quickly is part of that, and the defence used to play a part in that. Playing it out from the back used to be an intrinsic part of our approach, and the general view (at least in the championship) was that the benefits outweighed the occasional calamity. Our approach now seems to concede that we don't have the players to implement this strategy, which is puzzling given the huge sums spent. |  | | |
| I’ve always called it…. on 11:53 - Sep 1 with 1168 views | Bloots |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:45 - Sep 1 by burnbudgiesburn |
Even if you believe it to be true, its amazing how great players become when they are no longer in the team isn't it?
I think both Greaves/O'Shea have higher ceilings than both but are yet to perform to the level I hoped. That's a completely different argument though. |
….”The Danny Haynes effect”.
Fans constantly called for him to start, then when he did they realised why he didn’t.
Football fans are funny. |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:54 - Sep 1 with 1143 views | Metal_Hacker |
Individually I think O'Shea and Greaves are the better players but as a duo , they've plenty to learn as yet and the worrying thing for me is their similar players . Both like to attack the ball , neither hold back and sweep or read the play. Doesn't make them bad players , just IMHO makes them an odd pairing until it's sorted out |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:55 - Sep 1 with 1124 views | pointofblue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:49 - Sep 1 by AWOL |
One is in Swansea and one will be in Coventry.
It was an amazing couple of years.
Time to move on. |
It'd be easier to move on if we had clearly upgraded on them. How much did we spend on O'Shea and Greaves? Nearly £30m? We need to see that on the pitch.
Despite Morsy's clear attributes, I felt our defence was left too exposed by the ball being played through us in 23/24. This season, the midfield seems far more solid but we're susceptible to balls over the top. Instead of O'Shea and Greaves making us solid in the air and on the ground, they get run on far too easily.
I'll be blunt - if Woolfenden put a performance like O'Shea on Saturday he would have been ripped to sheds. 5.5 on the player ratings despite that mess? McKenna is excused of being blinded by the amount of money spent on players. If so, perhaps he's not the only one. | |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:01 - Sep 1 with 1025 views | Garv |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:55 - Sep 1 by pointofblue |
It'd be easier to move on if we had clearly upgraded on them. How much did we spend on O'Shea and Greaves? Nearly £30m? We need to see that on the pitch.
Despite Morsy's clear attributes, I felt our defence was left too exposed by the ball being played through us in 23/24. This season, the midfield seems far more solid but we're susceptible to balls over the top. Instead of O'Shea and Greaves making us solid in the air and on the ground, they get run on far too easily.
I'll be blunt - if Woolfenden put a performance like O'Shea on Saturday he would have been ripped to sheds. 5.5 on the player ratings despite that mess? McKenna is excused of being blinded by the amount of money spent on players. If so, perhaps he's not the only one. |
Did O'Shea do much wrong apart from the chest down for the second goal? |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:01 - Sep 1 with 1024 views | PositivelyPortman |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:44 - Sep 1 by pointofblue |
I think the issue is O'Shea and Greaves really don't seem to be building an understanding, despite starting a number of games together both last season and this. That lack of understanding led to Derby's penalty on Saturday. It's not as though they haven't had time together.
O'Shea & Burgess and Woolfenden & Greaves looked much better as partnerships last season. It's another example of going from more than the sum of our parts to less. |
I’ve not been overly impressed with DOS as a captain either, and KM will of course find it difficult to drop him now.
I’d imagined that DOS would be a bit more vociferous and animated with the team.
We need a Roy Keane type character as captain. (Not as a manager obvs!) |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:05 - Sep 1 with 974 views | bsw72 |
Doesn't matter either way. |  | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:06 - Sep 1 with 960 views | DJR |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:54 - Sep 1 by Metal_Hacker |
Individually I think O'Shea and Greaves are the better players but as a duo , they've plenty to learn as yet and the worrying thing for me is their similar players . Both like to attack the ball , neither hold back and sweep or read the play. Doesn't make them bad players , just IMHO makes them an odd pairing until it's sorted out |
One thing we didn't tend to do under Woolfenden and Burgess was concede goals through the middle, and to a large extent I think that was because Burgess attacked the ball and Woolfy swept. |  | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:08 - Sep 1 with 930 views | Bluefields |
I agree, certainly Burgess over Greaves and Wolf is on a par with O'Shea. However both pairings are improved with Morsy in front of them | | | |
| I’ve always called it…. on 12:09 - Sep 1 with 925 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| I’ve always called it…. on 11:53 - Sep 1 by Bloots |
….”The Danny Haynes effect”.
Fans constantly called for him to start, then when he did they realised why he didn’t.
Football fans are funny. |
Exactly.
They've also gone to Coventry & Swansea respectively... not even relegation fodder Prem teams.
Fans need to move on and support players wearing blue today. | | | |
| A confident OShea and Greaves are far better than Wolfie/Burgess on 12:10 - Sep 1 with 896 views | unstableblue |
And also Burgess is older.
The continuing issue remains that the team need wins to build confidence, and to get the patterns going.
Even the likes of Man City with their unbelievable talent are mired in a confidence spiral.
We need a bit of luck, some fan backing, and to try and turn this around.
The ref and Derby dark arts, combined with some errors (including from OShea) meant the excellent football seen in the first half on Saturday, has long been forgotten it seems. |  |
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| A confident OShea and Greaves are far better than Wolfie/Burgess on 12:43 - Sep 1 with 754 views | BlueForYou |
| A confident OShea and Greaves are far better than Wolfie/Burgess on 12:10 - Sep 1 by unstableblue |
And also Burgess is older.
The continuing issue remains that the team need wins to build confidence, and to get the patterns going.
Even the likes of Man City with their unbelievable talent are mired in a confidence spiral.
We need a bit of luck, some fan backing, and to try and turn this around.
The ref and Derby dark arts, combined with some errors (including from OShea) meant the excellent football seen in the first half on Saturday, has long been forgotten it seems. |
We saw 15 mins of reasonable football. Enough to see what we could be like. We weren't in the game for the first 30 mins. The second half was one almighty mess. |  | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:49 - Sep 1 with 712 views | darkhorse28 |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:42 - Sep 1 by Clutch |
No its not. |
It’s very marginal though isn’t it.., probably actually is better, maybe just due to how long they played together.
But to think one pairing cost nothing, and the other almost £30 million, and that Burgess and Wolf could play for another 4 years together it’s not exactly progress is it, a strategic master class it’s not.
Wolf at 26 too might have the highest ceiling of all of them.
Do you think our £200 million group are achieving more than our £10 million group?
No. Me either. | | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:55 - Sep 1 with 684 views | NthQldITFC |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:44 - Sep 1 by pointofblue |
I think the issue is O'Shea and Greaves really don't seem to be building an understanding, despite starting a number of games together both last season and this. That lack of understanding led to Derby's penalty on Saturday. It's not as though they haven't had time together.
O'Shea & Burgess and Woolfenden & Greaves looked much better as partnerships last season. It's another example of going from more than the sum of our parts to less. |
Yes, they can both do similar things - crudely, they can both win the ball in the air and on the ground, and they're also both quick enough to cover. They need to communicate and synchronise better, which I'm sure they're working on. |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:55 - Sep 1 with 685 views | pointofblue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:01 - Sep 1 by Garv |
Did O'Shea do much wrong apart from the chest down for the second goal? |
Him and Greaves both went AWOL for the penalty as well. They basically had two gilt edge chances on Saturday - one gifted by O'Shea, one played in by a lack of understanding (again) between our centre backs. | |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:58 - Sep 1 with 665 views | TractorCam |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 11:45 - Sep 1 by burnbudgiesburn |
Even if you believe it to be true, its amazing how great players become when they are no longer in the team isn't it?
I think both Greaves/O'Shea have higher ceilings than both but are yet to perform to the level I hoped. That's a completely different argument though. |
Both were great in the team. |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:00 - Sep 1 with 643 views | FrimleyBlue |
Oshea is better than wolfy
burgess better than greaves but is also older, so greaves will get better |  |
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| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:03 - Sep 1 with 630 views | DavoIPB |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 12:49 - Sep 1 by darkhorse28 |
It’s very marginal though isn’t it.., probably actually is better, maybe just due to how long they played together.
But to think one pairing cost nothing, and the other almost £30 million, and that Burgess and Wolf could play for another 4 years together it’s not exactly progress is it, a strategic master class it’s not.
Wolf at 26 too might have the highest ceiling of all of them.
Do you think our £200 million group are achieving more than our £10 million group?
No. Me either. |
We did have a defensive problem in the championship last time. We shipped loads of goals. | | | |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:05 - Sep 1 with 618 views | pointofblue |
| Woolfenden and Burgess on 13:03 - Sep 1 by DavoIPB |
We did have a defensive problem in the championship last time. We shipped loads of goals. |
Look at the style of goals we conceded. In our last Championship season it was because teams played through our midfield. This year, teams are bypassing out midfield, as it's harder to do, but our centre backs seem to be struggling with dealing with them. | |
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