| Rayner resigns 13:04 - Sep 5 with 4489 views | Mullet |
A feather in the cap for the hypocritical right and a loss to British politics. A shame she’s gone but it shows a moral fibre that’s rarer these days in politics. |  |
| |  |
| Rayner resigns on 15:43 - Sep 5 with 1068 views | leitrimblue |
| Rayner resigns on 13:45 - Sep 5 by charlie_lynton |
Funded by taxpayers her entire life. Then abused it even more. Has literally been a drain on society ever since she was born. |
Perhaps you could attempt to explain this post in greater detail Charles? |  | | |
| Rayner resigns on 15:44 - Sep 5 with 1068 views | BloomBlue |
| Rayner resigns on 13:25 - Sep 5 by Mullet |
Did she lie or did she think she’d got it right and acted when she’s got it wrong? Given the Trumpian world we live in where the Right simply attack others and deflect, she hasn’t. If she was an old Etonian male she’d be fine I suspect. |
In some ways she's been unlucky. Stamp duty as it relates to trust has been a minefield for a few years now especially 2nd homes. Some people have been calling for it to be simplified for a long time. However I think thats been ignored by a lot within Labour because 'only the rich have 2nd homes so tough'
But in her statement 3 days ago she said :-
When purchasing the property my understanding, on advice from lawyers, was that my circumstances meant I was liable for the standard rate of stamp duty.
What the ethics adviser said is she never obtained that. He even said, she was advised to obtain tax advice, but didn't.
One person's lie is another person's mistake.
I have sympathy for her, but ultimately I'm continuing with my opinion; She was the Secretary of State for housing, stamp duty is the housing tax, she should be white than white with anything related to housing.
If she was advised to consult with a tax expert re stamp duty, why didnt think, ok let me check after all im the housing minister the last thing I need to do is make a mistake. |  | | |
| Rayner resigns on 15:56 - Sep 5 with 1025 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Rayner resigns on 13:45 - Sep 5 by charlie_lynton |
Funded by taxpayers her entire life. Then abused it even more. Has literally been a drain on society ever since she was born. |
Tw@t |  | | |
| Rayner resigns on 16:14 - Sep 5 with 955 views | DJR |
It's all kicking off in the branch office!
Labour party figures close to Ian Murray, sacked on Friday as Scotland secretary, were “genuinely shocked” and “flabbergasted” that he had lost his job, and unclear why Murray was removed.
“Seriously, I don’t know what the hell is going on,” said one ally. There is no suggestion Murray had miss-stepped within the party or government, or had botched any policies, the source said.
Murray has also been Labour’s electorally most successful MP in Scotland, the only one to save his seat in the 2015 general election rout where the SNP won 56 of Scotland’s 59 Westminster seats.
Known for his assiduous constituency work, Murray built up a centrist electoral coalition in Edinburgh South which landed him the country’s largest majority at the last election. He had served as shadow Scottish secretary twice since winning the seat in 2015.
His allies believe Murray has been a very successful opponent to the Scottish National party government in Edinburgh, helping force John Swinney, the first minister, into a significant U-turn on defence earlier this week. [Post edited 5 Sep 16:16]
|  | | |
| Rayner resigns on 16:15 - Sep 5 with 949 views | noggin |
Why can't I upvote this more than once? |  |
| |
| Rayner resigns on 16:16 - Sep 5 with 936 views | noggin |
| Rayner resigns on 15:43 - Sep 5 by leitrimblue |
Perhaps you could attempt to explain this post in greater detail Charles? |
He won't, of course. | |
| |
| Rayner resigns on 16:31 - Sep 5 with 889 views | DanTheMan |
| Rayner resigns on 15:43 - Sep 5 by leitrimblue |
Perhaps you could attempt to explain this post in greater detail Charles? |
- New poster
- Only posted in threads about politics / wars
- Has a username related to Tony Blair
I wouldn't bother. |  |
| |
| Rayner resigns on 16:43 - Sep 5 with 828 views | bartyg |
| Rayner resigns on 13:45 - Sep 5 by charlie_lynton |
Funded by taxpayers her entire life. Then abused it even more. Has literally been a drain on society ever since she was born. |
Sorry, accidentally upvoted as I thought this was a post about the monarchy!
Carry on |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Rayner resigns on 16:56 - Sep 5 with 761 views | BlueForYou |
How are the right in any way hypocritical here? She's made her bed, she's made her decisions, she chose to bad mouth Conservatives in similar circumstances. She had become an embarrassment & had to go. A shame in that a young politician who clearly has passion for her party & beliefs, has had to receive such a public lesson in morality. Maybe she should have spent longer gaining experience in local government first? |  | | |
| Rayner resigns on 17:45 - Sep 5 with 668 views | Ftnfwest |
| Rayner resigns on 14:49 - Sep 5 by JammyDodgerrr |
She obviously got it wrong and has paid the price.
But this really is a victory for misogynstic white men everywhere. |
Always good to bring race into it. As a white man I'll avoid criticising women tax dodgers in future. |  | | |
| Rayner resigns on 17:52 - Sep 5 with 636 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Rayner resigns on 17:45 - Sep 5 by Ftnfwest |
Always good to bring race into it. As a white man I'll avoid criticising women tax dodgers in future. |
Pls do | | | |
| Rayner resigns on 18:18 - Sep 5 with 567 views | Bangor31 |
I find it interesting how many are defending her actions here. She has a proven record of tax avoidance, fully legal, and I don't have any issue with that. But it does show she's not adverse to getting tax advise.
She set up this trust with her x husband and is a sitting trustee and should be aware of trusts and under 18s to a certain degree. Even to a degree to know it's complex.
She then got the trust to buy her 25% share, which is an interesting move in itself, to buy a house outside her constituency and not overly close to London.
She then hid behind court, legal advise, and her child being disabled. Not overly holding her hands up and falling on her own sword.
We then find out the advise was to seek proper legal advise which was not obtained until recently and after the event.
I'm no lawyer but I think a court would find that this is as close to deliberate tax evasion as one could get. And agree with some here it could just be all pure incompetence but then she should be nowhere near the top of politics. [Post edited 5 Sep 18:32]
|  | | |
| Rayner resigns on 18:27 - Sep 5 with 533 views | Mullet |
| Rayner resigns on 16:56 - Sep 5 by BlueForYou |
How are the right in any way hypocritical here? She's made her bed, she's made her decisions, she chose to bad mouth Conservatives in similar circumstances. She had become an embarrassment & had to go. A shame in that a young politician who clearly has passion for her party & beliefs, has had to receive such a public lesson in morality. Maybe she should have spent longer gaining experience in local government first? |
Blimey where do you want to start?
Lockdown parties?
Covid contracts?
Failure to declare interests?
Buying up farmland to cheat tax?
Expenses scandal?
Russian interference and intelligence compromises?
Non dom tax loopholes for them and their mates?
Property in family members and girlfriends names?
Tax schemes?
That’s just off the top of my head. How many resigned over those rather than being pushed? | |
| |
| Rayner resigns on 18:45 - Sep 5 with 484 views | DJR |
| Rayner resigns on 18:18 - Sep 5 by Bangor31 |
I find it interesting how many are defending her actions here. She has a proven record of tax avoidance, fully legal, and I don't have any issue with that. But it does show she's not adverse to getting tax advise.
She set up this trust with her x husband and is a sitting trustee and should be aware of trusts and under 18s to a certain degree. Even to a degree to know it's complex.
She then got the trust to buy her 25% share, which is an interesting move in itself, to buy a house outside her constituency and not overly close to London.
She then hid behind court, legal advise, and her child being disabled. Not overly holding her hands up and falling on her own sword.
We then find out the advise was to seek proper legal advise which was not obtained until recently and after the event.
I'm no lawyer but I think a court would find that this is as close to deliberate tax evasion as one could get. And agree with some here it could just be all pure incompetence but then she should be nowhere near the top of politics. [Post edited 5 Sep 18:32]
|
I am a lawyer and started a thread critical of her actions, but do not think what she did amounts to tax evasion.
My understanding, however, is that a penalty (calculated as a percentage of the tax owed) could come into play in accordance with the following if HMRC were to regard her as careless, which in my view she could be said to be.
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/compliance-handbook/ch82470
If that were the case, she faces a penalty of up to 30% of the owed tax. [Post edited 5 Sep 18:47]
| | | |
| Rayner resigns on 18:50 - Sep 5 with 472 views | Bangor31 |
| Rayner resigns on 18:45 - Sep 5 by DJR |
I am a lawyer and started a thread critical of her actions, but do not think what she did amounts to tax evasion.
My understanding, however, is that a penalty (calculated as a percentage of the tax owed) could come into play in accordance with the following if HMRC were to regard her as careless, which in my view she could be said to be.
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/compliance-handbook/ch82470
If that were the case, she faces a penalty of up to 30% of the owed tax. [Post edited 5 Sep 18:47]
|
Hypothetical, even if she was aware that when the beneficiary of the trust was under 18 it would be considered under her care or something of that ilc? [Post edited 5 Sep 19:12]
| | | |
| Rayner resigns on 19:09 - Sep 5 with 436 views | BlueForYou |
| Rayner resigns on 18:27 - Sep 5 by Mullet |
Blimey where do you want to start?
Lockdown parties?
Covid contracts?
Failure to declare interests?
Buying up farmland to cheat tax?
Expenses scandal?
Russian interference and intelligence compromises?
Non dom tax loopholes for them and their mates?
Property in family members and girlfriends names?
Tax schemes?
That’s just off the top of my head. How many resigned over those rather than being pushed? |
Yes & Rayner launched into those with her holier than thou approach, mentioning the word scum at one point. Now she does the same, you have to wonder what on earth was she thinking? What a hypocrite. Funny really! | | | |
| Rayner resigns on 19:20 - Sep 5 with 391 views | Mullet |
| Rayner resigns on 19:09 - Sep 5 by BlueForYou |
Yes & Rayner launched into those with her holier than thou approach, mentioning the word scum at one point. Now she does the same, you have to wonder what on earth was she thinking? What a hypocrite. Funny really! |
Are you being purposefully dim? We aren’t talking about her here but the hypocrisy of the Tory and far right establishment like Traitor Nige over the past few years? | |
| |
| Rayner resigns on 19:32 - Sep 5 with 355 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Rayner resigns on 13:27 - Sep 5 by baxterbasics |
Also, even ignoring the rights and wrongs of the tax situation, how does someone in her position manage to accumulate that much wealth? Career as a union rep and then MP / minister shouldn't be quite so rewarding. Similar to the millionaire Jeremy Corbyn and his career as an agitator at taxpayer expense.
Realise it's not just about these individuals but the whole parliament / government gravy train. |
Are you joking?
I am very happy for all MPs to be paid a very good professional salary.
I don't think it is out of order for the Deputy Prime Minister to be able to put down a 20 or 30% deposit on an £800,000 house, when that is less than two months wages for some Championship footballers.
But then I would say that they shouldn't be able to earn any money outside of that income.
No paid consultancy work or Directorships for the people who we elect to represent the best interest of the public, not firms who pay them for lobbying on their behalf.
Rayner has done the right thing by resigning. She would have had more credit had she gone a day earlier, mind, but this is not the same thing as some of the sleaze that we have seen over the past 30 years. Not even close.
All PMs from Thatcher back would have demanded her resignation for this. And then would have allowed her to return in a year or so. That was how it used to be done. Take responsibility, do your time, then come back because you are the sort of person who does take responsibility.
That all changed from Major onwards, but Johnson took the absolute psss! | | | |
| Rayner resigns on 20:32 - Sep 5 with 245 views | mellowblue |
| Rayner resigns on 19:32 - Sep 5 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Are you joking?
I am very happy for all MPs to be paid a very good professional salary.
I don't think it is out of order for the Deputy Prime Minister to be able to put down a 20 or 30% deposit on an £800,000 house, when that is less than two months wages for some Championship footballers.
But then I would say that they shouldn't be able to earn any money outside of that income.
No paid consultancy work or Directorships for the people who we elect to represent the best interest of the public, not firms who pay them for lobbying on their behalf.
Rayner has done the right thing by resigning. She would have had more credit had she gone a day earlier, mind, but this is not the same thing as some of the sleaze that we have seen over the past 30 years. Not even close.
All PMs from Thatcher back would have demanded her resignation for this. And then would have allowed her to return in a year or so. That was how it used to be done. Take responsibility, do your time, then come back because you are the sort of person who does take responsibility.
That all changed from Major onwards, but Johnson took the absolute psss! |
If her sole income is an mp's salary now she is going to struggle to pay the mortgage 650,000 could possibly have to sell as she also will be losing the grace and favour London base. Seems strange to have chosen a flat in Hove that is so far away from her family and constituency up in Manchester. Without a government portfolio she will be expected to do more constituency work now. | | | |
| Rayner resigns on 20:45 - Sep 5 with 211 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rayner resigns on 20:32 - Sep 5 by mellowblue |
If her sole income is an mp's salary now she is going to struggle to pay the mortgage 650,000 could possibly have to sell as she also will be losing the grace and favour London base. Seems strange to have chosen a flat in Hove that is so far away from her family and constituency up in Manchester. Without a government portfolio she will be expected to do more constituency work now. |
Sam Tarry lives in Hove. |  |
| |
| Rayner resigns on 20:56 - Sep 5 with 200 views | DJR |
| Rayner resigns on 18:50 - Sep 5 by Bangor31 |
Hypothetical, even if she was aware that when the beneficiary of the trust was under 18 it would be considered under her care or something of that ilc? [Post edited 5 Sep 19:12]
|
Not sure I follow what you are saying. [Post edited 5 Sep 20:57]
| | | |
| Rayner resigns on 21:04 - Sep 5 with 183 views | Bangor31 |
| Rayner resigns on 20:56 - Sep 5 by DJR |
Not sure I follow what you are saying. [Post edited 5 Sep 20:57]
|
Would you still feel that is the case of she were proven to have known that her son's trusted home was considered her till 18, for the purposes of this tax? | | | |
| Rayner resigns on 21:12 - Sep 5 with 160 views | DJR |
| Rayner resigns on 21:04 - Sep 5 by Bangor31 |
Would you still feel that is the case of she were proven to have known that her son's trusted home was considered her till 18, for the purposes of this tax? |
Sorry, I still don't get the point you are making but I assume (perhaps wrongly) that your question is designed to make me change my mind about there being no question of tax evasion, which itself involves criminality. | | | |
| Rayner resigns on 21:41 - Sep 5 with 114 views | Bangor31 |
| Rayner resigns on 21:12 - Sep 5 by DJR |
Sorry, I still don't get the point you are making but I assume (perhaps wrongly) that your question is designed to make me change my mind about there being no question of tax evasion, which itself involves criminality. |
At this point in time we are unaware of her knowledge of this part of the law. If she were aware, and it was provable, would this change your opinion to meet the evasion threshold?
Not meant as a gotcha question, pure question. | | | |
| Rayner resigns on 22:07 - Sep 5 with 75 views | DJR |
| Rayner resigns on 21:41 - Sep 5 by Bangor31 |
At this point in time we are unaware of her knowledge of this part of the law. If she were aware, and it was provable, would this change your opinion to meet the evasion threshold?
Not meant as a gotcha question, pure question. |
I am not sure where my answering that question would take us given it effectively appears to amount to the following.
"If she intended to evade tax, would this change your opinion to meet the evasion threshold?"
For my own part, there doesn't seem any indication that she intended to evade tax and indeed the Independent Adviser on Ministerial Standards said she acted with integrity. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
