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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 16:03 - Oct 7 by DJR
Who on the left doesn't support decolonising the countryside?
During his Q&A at a Telegraph fringe, the Telegraph writer Tim Stanley asked Robert Jenrick about his Handsworth comments and suggested that if he had gone somewhere “mono-culturally white”, he would not be commenting on the absence of black or brown faces.
As the Telegraph reports, Jenrick replied:
"The left do, ‘decolonise the countryside’, ‘decolonise the National Trust’... What I said is it not about the colour of your skin or your faith. My point is that we don’t want to have communities where they do not reflect the breadth of the people who live in our country. I think it’s self-evidently true.
Not only I think is that bad because we want to live in a country where there is a strong sense of togetherness, but at the extreme it leads us down a very dangerous path."
[Post edited 7 Oct 16:05]
Reminded me of this: 0m30s if the timestamp doesn't work
2. Badenoch stating that it is Tory policy to join Belarus and Russia in leaving the ECHR, and suggesting other treaties, such as the Refugee Convention, may follow.
3. The Philpster (as John Crace describes Chris Philp) today saying the Tories will allow stop and search without grounds for suspicion.
[Post edited 7 Oct 21:10]
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 21:10 - Oct 7 with 850 views
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:54 - Oct 7 by Steve_M
I think Robert Jenrick's outright racism, given he is positioning to be their next leader, should be getting far more attention.
Apparently, a black journalist questioning him is fomenting terrorism:
Wow. Robert Jenrick doubles down by branding a black journalist's questions "ridiculous" and saying that the problem is not his comments, but "journalists like you who pop up and try to knock me down", adding that "this is the reason why terrorist attacks happen". ~AA
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 16:09 - Oct 7 by Radlett_blue
Yes, the USA & UK are (fortunately) very different. The US economy has continued to do better, largely because it remains the world leader in the largest & fastest growing industry- technology. The US, outside a few large cities, is also relatively under-populated, which means that property prices in many areas are low, allowing ordinary people to have a decent standard of living. Yes, a lot of well off American like Trump, largely because he's an advocate of low taxation & is seen as pro-business. My main point, though, is that it seems perverse for people to celebrate the demise of the Tories when it looks like they're going to be replaced by Reform.
[Post edited 7 Oct 16:11]
"My main point, though, is that it seems perverse for people to celebrate the demise of the Tories when it looks like they're going to be replaced by Reform."
Yes, agree that that is not a good thing. Hard to see how a Tory party lead by Jenrick is functionally different to Reform though.
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 07:41 - Oct 8 by Steve_M
"My main point, though, is that it seems perverse for people to celebrate the demise of the Tories when it looks like they're going to be replaced by Reform."
Yes, agree that that is not a good thing. Hard to see how a Tory party lead by Jenrick is functionally different to Reform though.
Indeed, and perfect if he does. Split the right wing vote and keep both out.
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 19:07 - Oct 7 by OldFart71
I agree with what you say. I can see totally where young people are coming from when they say that things are nowhere near as good for them as their parents. Then when I look back a while my parents and to a even greater extent my grandparents were a lot worse off than I was. I'm not saying everything was milk and honey. It wasn't. Jobs were easy to come by, but many were poorly paid. There wasn't a minimum wage, although there would be overtime paid at time and a half or double time. I got married at 23. We said we'd have a quiet wedding. Mother-in-law had a silencer on the shotgun. My ex was pregnant. I worked for the lawnmowers in Stowmarket. Hard, dirty work on a production line. Luckily by the time my second was born I had a better job and a few years later I bought my first house. 10 years later I was divorced and basically started again. New mortgage and kids to look after. Along with my partner we took in two stray friends of our children. So a full house for a few years. Both working full time and Sunday was fun as the washing machine would be on all day along with the tumble dryer into the late evening. Good job energy was a bit cheaper then. Now a grandfather I still try to help my kids, both financially and advice wise. I have had and am having a decent life. I will try my hardest to also make the life of my grandchildren as good as I can. I see it as my duty. I'm not wealthy, but I'm not skint either.
You can really see how far Birmingham’s fallen when the legacy of Jasper’s Carrot has all but been completely erased. Once a proud symbol of local culture has now been paved over in favour of a bunch of asphalt laden streaky winders. The Tories swore it was “infrastructure modernisation,” but from the driver’s seat, it feels more like a psychological experiment. No one’s laughing anymore, except maybe the contractors (who are no doubt friends with high ranking Tories in some way).
And of course, the final nail in the city’s coffin was the extinction of the chocolate orange tree. All thanks to one Conservative MP who decided to wade into Broad Street spouting “zesty flavours undermine British values.” Within a fortnight, they’d flattened the orchards and stuck 4 charity shops, a Ladbrokes and Costa on top. Birmingham used to be a city of character; now it’s just roundabouts, potholes, and the place that ruined Louis Barrie's career.
Indeed, and perfect if he does. Split the right wing vote and keep both out.
By the time of the next election, might even be a 3 way split with the Musk-backed Advance UK.
Current Conservative leadership seem to have decided to shift the party to the right, borrowing policies (like withdrawing from the ECHR) from Reform to claw back those voters. Hopefully, that will also lose them a few previous voters in the other direction who don't align with that shift, but it is a worrying trend.
20 or more Tory county/borough councillors have defected to Reform this week, including some in Hertfordshire who are known to me. They are either disillusioned with the conservatives or, more likely, think they have a batter chance of retaining their seats in the next local elections, some of which are in May. These will be interesting and could be the end for Badenoch, although replacing her with Jenrick, who is positioning himself as the new champion of the Tory right, will make little difference IMHO.
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 10:01 - Oct 8 by Radlett_blue
20 or more Tory county/borough councillors have defected to Reform this week, including some in Hertfordshire who are known to me. They are either disillusioned with the conservatives or, more likely, think they have a batter chance of retaining their seats in the next local elections, some of which are in May. These will be interesting and could be the end for Badenoch, although replacing her with Jenrick, who is positioning himself as the new champion of the Tory right, will make little difference IMHO.
Yes, I do get the feeling that the defections are mainly driven by a desire to be elected or re-elected, and there could be a flood as elections approach, given the bloodbath in May in Kent, where I live.
The other thing to bear in mind is that the Conservative membership (from whom councillors are drawn) became much more UKIPy following Brexit, so many will not be especially loyal.
[Post edited 8 Oct 10:50]
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 10:43 - Oct 8 with 426 views
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 10:17 - Oct 8 by DJR
Yes, I do get the feeling that the defections are mainly driven by a desire to be elected or re-elected, and there could be a flood as elections approach, given the bloodbath in May in Kent, where I live.
The other thing to bear in mind is that the Conservative membership (from whom councillors are drawn) became much more UKIPy following Brexit, so many will not be especially loyal.
[Post edited 8 Oct 10:50]
I still expect them to merge in the build up to the next election. If they do we're all f**ked.
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 10:59 - Oct 8 with 396 views
2. Badenoch stating that it is Tory policy to join Belarus and Russia in leaving the ECHR, and suggesting other treaties, such as the Refugee Convention, may follow.
3. The Philpster (as John Crace describes Chris Philp) today saying the Tories will allow stop and search without grounds for suspicion.
[Post edited 7 Oct 21:10]
Despite her reputation, Shabana Mahmood is a bit of a softy.
"Speaking to reporters en route to Mumbai, the prime minister said Labour was looking at going even further than the measures announced by Shabana Mahmood, which would look at the “cumulative impact” of repeat protests in certain locations."
[Post edited 8 Oct 11:00]
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:36 - Oct 8 with 340 views
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:54 - Oct 7 by Steve_M
I think Robert Jenrick's outright racism, given he is positioning to be their next leader, should be getting far more attention.
Apparently, a black journalist questioning him is fomenting terrorism:
Wow. Robert Jenrick doubles down by branding a black journalist's questions "ridiculous" and saying that the problem is not his comments, but "journalists like you who pop up and try to knock me down", adding that "this is the reason why terrorist attacks happen". ~AA
That they can't spell the name of the country they wish to govern is just the incompetence side of the mess they're in.
Here we go again - let's label people racist based on a headline you saw, without bothering to find out the facts.
You need context before you can make such outrageous allegations of racism.
This was what Jenrick said directly after the comment you have focussed on, “That’s not the kind of country I want to live in. I want to live in a country where people are properly integrated. It’s not about the colour of your skin or your faith, of course it isn’t. But I want people to be living alongside each other, not parallel lives. That’s not the right way we want to live as a country.”
Those are not the words of a racist.
You Sir, are as much part of the problem as anybody else.
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:39 - Oct 8 with 332 views
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:36 - Oct 8 by HotShotHamish
Here we go again - let's label people racist based on a headline you saw, without bothering to find out the facts.
You need context before you can make such outrageous allegations of racism.
This was what Jenrick said directly after the comment you have focussed on, “That’s not the kind of country I want to live in. I want to live in a country where people are properly integrated. It’s not about the colour of your skin or your faith, of course it isn’t. But I want people to be living alongside each other, not parallel lives. That’s not the right way we want to live as a country.”
Those are not the words of a racist.
You Sir, are as much part of the problem as anybody else.
I'm afraid they are. Complaining about non white people sticking together whilst white people do exactly the same thing.
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:46 - Oct 8 with 317 views
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:36 - Oct 8 by HotShotHamish
Here we go again - let's label people racist based on a headline you saw, without bothering to find out the facts.
You need context before you can make such outrageous allegations of racism.
This was what Jenrick said directly after the comment you have focussed on, “That’s not the kind of country I want to live in. I want to live in a country where people are properly integrated. It’s not about the colour of your skin or your faith, of course it isn’t. But I want people to be living alongside each other, not parallel lives. That’s not the right way we want to live as a country.”
Those are not the words of a racist.
You Sir, are as much part of the problem as anybody else.
Cheers for that, Bob, but saying it's not about the colour of your skin directly after saying you've not seen a single white face kind of suggests that actually it is about the colour of your skin. When he's wandering around in the countryside, I doubt it occurs to him that he's not seen a single brown person in hours and I doubt he'd comment on it either. When he starts wailing against ghettos of white middle class folk then perhaps we can say this genuinely isn't about the colour of someone's skin but I won't hold my breath on Bob saying anything along those lines.
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:36 - Oct 8 by HotShotHamish
Here we go again - let's label people racist based on a headline you saw, without bothering to find out the facts.
You need context before you can make such outrageous allegations of racism.
This was what Jenrick said directly after the comment you have focussed on, “That’s not the kind of country I want to live in. I want to live in a country where people are properly integrated. It’s not about the colour of your skin or your faith, of course it isn’t. But I want people to be living alongside each other, not parallel lives. That’s not the right way we want to live as a country.”
Those are not the words of a racist.
You Sir, are as much part of the problem as anybody else.
That's weird, you missed out the whole bit before that quote and after all, we wouldn't want to miss out any context, would we?
"I went to Handsworth in Birmingham the other day to do a video on litter and it was absolutely appalling. It’s as close as I’ve come to a slum in this country. But the other thing I noticed there was that it was one of the worst integrated places I’ve ever been to. In fact, in the hour and a half I was filming news there I didn’t see another white face."
I see you've yet to make one comment on the football and only ever get involved in politics threads. Maybe this year will finally be the year, eh?
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:36 - Oct 8 by HotShotHamish
Here we go again - let's label people racist based on a headline you saw, without bothering to find out the facts.
You need context before you can make such outrageous allegations of racism.
This was what Jenrick said directly after the comment you have focussed on, “That’s not the kind of country I want to live in. I want to live in a country where people are properly integrated. It’s not about the colour of your skin or your faith, of course it isn’t. But I want people to be living alongside each other, not parallel lives. That’s not the right way we want to live as a country.”
Those are not the words of a racist.
You Sir, are as much part of the problem as anybody else.
I have read the context, and it's racist. I'm sure he walks around Eye where he lives and only sees white faces without giving it a second thought. He has made a specific point about race and not seeing any white faces as a negative. Well he can f**k off with his dog whistle, divisive, ignorant grab for votes.
If you don't see it for what it is, then you sir, are as much part of the problem as the racist scumbag Jenrick.
[Post edited 8 Oct 13:58]
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:56 - Oct 8 with 284 views
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 10:59 - Oct 8 by DJR
Despite her reputation, Shabana Mahmood is a bit of a softy.
"Speaking to reporters en route to Mumbai, the prime minister said Labour was looking at going even further than the measures announced by Shabana Mahmood, which would look at the “cumulative impact” of repeat protests in certain locations."
[Post edited 8 Oct 11:00]
I saw Mahmood being interviewed on Sunday & she came over as a political lightweight. Home Secretary is a job no sane person would really want in the current climate & I suspect she's been set up to fail.
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:55 - Oct 8 by Blueschev
I have read the context, and it's racist. I'm sure he walks around Eye where he lives and only sees white faces without giving it a second thought. He has made a specific point about race and not seeing any white faces as a negative. Well he can f**k off with his dog whistle, divisive, ignorant grab for votes.
If you don't see it for what it is, then you sir, are as much part of the problem as the racist scumbag Jenrick.
[Post edited 8 Oct 13:58]
Indeed. There's also the very clear implication that if you are not white, you are not really British. An area full of people of colour can't possibly be integrated into British culture because British culture is inherently tied to whiteness. It's very clearly racist. Using language like "slum" and "ghetto" similarly so, the implications are clear: Bob thinks that if you're brown or Black, you are not really British and your way of living is inferior. It's wild that we've got someone from one of the big two parties saying these things openly without so much as a reprimand.
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:36 - Oct 8 by HotShotHamish
Here we go again - let's label people racist based on a headline you saw, without bothering to find out the facts.
You need context before you can make such outrageous allegations of racism.
This was what Jenrick said directly after the comment you have focussed on, “That’s not the kind of country I want to live in. I want to live in a country where people are properly integrated. It’s not about the colour of your skin or your faith, of course it isn’t. But I want people to be living alongside each other, not parallel lives. That’s not the right way we want to live as a country.”
Those are not the words of a racist.
You Sir, are as much part of the problem as anybody else.
He didn’t post a headline, he posted a video clip from BlueSky.
You forgot the other bit of racism.
Jenrick assumes all the people he saw over a 90 minute timespan were in one non-integrated community, just because none of them were white.
What is it called when you assume something just by skin colour, yep racism.
He was being racist.
Now he is just trying to justify it, you know, because he got caught out. Some people will be fooled.
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 14:06 - Oct 8 with 257 views
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 13:36 - Oct 8 by HotShotHamish
Here we go again - let's label people racist based on a headline you saw, without bothering to find out the facts.
You need context before you can make such outrageous allegations of racism.
This was what Jenrick said directly after the comment you have focussed on, “That’s not the kind of country I want to live in. I want to live in a country where people are properly integrated. It’s not about the colour of your skin or your faith, of course it isn’t. But I want people to be living alongside each other, not parallel lives. That’s not the right way we want to live as a country.”
Those are not the words of a racist.
You Sir, are as much part of the problem as anybody else.
jenrick is right about the importance of integration. it doesn't involve the denial of difference but it does involve the assimilation of key social, legal and cultural norms. without that being a citizen has little meaning.
across time and across countries newly immigrant communities have always clustered together in localities for very obvious reasons. but generally that breaks down, or at least becomes more porous, in the following generations. but if a community really remained segregated in terms of language, norms, institutions, employment, attitudes to legal or social issues etc that would be worrying. but it's rare in the uk.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 14:09 - Oct 8 with 260 views
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 14:03 - Oct 8 by Herbivore
Indeed. There's also the very clear implication that if you are not white, you are not really British. An area full of people of colour can't possibly be integrated into British culture because British culture is inherently tied to whiteness. It's very clearly racist. Using language like "slum" and "ghetto" similarly so, the implications are clear: Bob thinks that if you're brown or Black, you are not really British and your way of living is inferior. It's wild that we've got someone from one of the big two parties saying these things openly without so much as a reprimand.
It's sad that 15 years ago we thought that we'd witnessed the BNP die live on Question Time. Turns out that their ideas and rhetoric are now being spewed out by the main opposition as well as the party leading in the polls.
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The Tories are dead aren't they? on 14:25 - Oct 8 with 209 views
The Tories are dead aren't they? on 14:03 - Oct 8 by Herbivore
Indeed. There's also the very clear implication that if you are not white, you are not really British. An area full of people of colour can't possibly be integrated into British culture because British culture is inherently tied to whiteness. It's very clearly racist. Using language like "slum" and "ghetto" similarly so, the implications are clear: Bob thinks that if you're brown or Black, you are not really British and your way of living is inferior. It's wild that we've got someone from one of the big two parties saying these things openly without so much as a reprimand.
that is misrepresenting and distorting what he actually said though. you are just ascribing to him a narrative which is entirely your own creation. attacking an argument you have invented and which is different from the one he made is known as straw manning. the version in your imagination may be very clearly racist but it's not what he said.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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