| Venezuela under attack (n/t) 06:40 - Jan 3 with 15075 views | Perublue |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:39 - Jan 3 with 708 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:38 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
Unfortunately, there are elements within Europe - both in power and strong opposition - who favour the latter over the former. They have forgotten what our parents and grandparents went through. Or, worse, they hanker after a rosy-tinted (and often nationalistically-slanted) view of events. |
Agreed. We also have the obvious barriers created by having, effectively, a russian vasal in the EU- in Hungary.
We do still have soft power though.
The idea, to most americans, of the UK in particualr standing up and saying that the US has become everything it used to stand against, would be pretty alarming. Whether there will be a free and fair election in the US going forward, remains to be seen. It seems more and more likely that Trump will stand again. [Post edited 3 Jan 10:41]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:40 - Jan 3 with 714 views | BlueBadger |
Must be something REALLY bad about to come out of the Epstein files. [Post edited 3 Jan 14:24]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:41 - Jan 3 with 695 views | WeWereZombies |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:31 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
"The hit" involves half a trillion Euros worth of exports. Vast amounts of technology and the licences to run it. All military and diplomatic support (the US holds a veto in the UN Security Council). Potential aggressive push-back in areas of interest (e.g. Africa, the Middle East), which could dramatically exacerbate issues such as migration. Perhaps even encouragement for Putin to nibble at the edges, with no NATO any more.
Not convinced that the EU, in its current state, would survive the experience. Certainly not unscathed.
Edit: We have eight decades and more of deep integration across the Atlantic. That cannot be undone in a moment. Not from our end, at least. [Post edited 3 Jan 10:33]
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And, hopefully, this Trumping United States only has a couple of years left and regime change is on the way, the decent side of that nation probably needs our support rather than being abandoned at the moment. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:47 - Jan 3 with 642 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 08:54 - Jan 3 by ElderGrizzly |
Looks like the Chinese arrived yesterday to meet with Maduro on oil. Sure it’s all a coincidence and not Trump effectively shouting “No, my oil”
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That explains the timing.
Chinese diplomacy is famously three dimensional chess:
Make USA think China has designs on a South American base.
USA intervenes.
USA attacks Venezuela, Russia committed to attacking Ukraine, neither has the moral authority, or military capacity, to stop China absorbing Taiwan. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:50 - Jan 3 with 629 views | Guthrum |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:35 - Jan 3 by redrickstuhaart |
It does.
But the alternative appears to be a real risk of a real life dystopian world, run by two or three large agressive dictatorships. At which point, it will be too late to resist. |
It's already way too late. We should have been preparing for this decades ago.
But that would have required a crystal ball. Even Trump's first term did not herald things turning this berserk so quickly. Plus the money and the long-standing support was too good, what need had Europe to wean itself off that?
The continent had been devastated by a vast war, ruined and bankrupt, divided by an Iron Curtain. It needed help from outside to rebuild, then and also after the fall of the Soviet Union dropped a load more relatively impoverished and under-developed countries into their lap. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:50 - Jan 3 with 626 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:38 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
Unfortunately, there are elements within Europe - both in power and strong opposition - who favour the latter over the former. They have forgotten what our parents and grandparents went through. Or, worse, they hanker after a rosy-tinted (and often nationalistically-slanted) view of events. |
Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.
D. H. Lawrence |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:56 - Jan 3 with 598 views | Churchman |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:39 - Jan 3 by redrickstuhaart |
Agreed. We also have the obvious barriers created by having, effectively, a russian vasal in the EU- in Hungary.
We do still have soft power though.
The idea, to most americans, of the UK in particualr standing up and saying that the US has become everything it used to stand against, would be pretty alarming. Whether there will be a free and fair election in the US going forward, remains to be seen. It seems more and more likely that Trump will stand again. [Post edited 3 Jan 10:41]
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I doubt you will hear a peep out of anyone in Europe. They’re either allied to Putin/Trump (e.g. Hungary) or scared to death of them. The bigger European countries are run by self interested weedy little toadies like Starmer. I’ve no doubt Macron will cross his eyes and try and look important but isn’t and as for the Germans - to quote Birmingham supporters ….whoooo?
Trump will stand again or put in place a stooge, unless he dies. But I don’t think he needs to. The Americans have got a whiff of empire and power with the promise of filling their boots off the back of vassal states. No different to the other two important countries, China and Russia.
Might is right in 2025. Never thought I’d see the rise of authoritarianism in my lifetime. Shame there’s nobody to stand up to it. |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:57 - Jan 3 with 594 views | Guthrum |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:39 - Jan 3 by redrickstuhaart |
Agreed. We also have the obvious barriers created by having, effectively, a russian vasal in the EU- in Hungary.
We do still have soft power though.
The idea, to most americans, of the UK in particualr standing up and saying that the US has become everything it used to stand against, would be pretty alarming. Whether there will be a free and fair election in the US going forward, remains to be seen. It seems more and more likely that Trump will stand again. [Post edited 3 Jan 10:41]
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Even if Trump doesn't or cannot stand again, someone will play Maduro to his Chavez.
I don't believe a lot of Americans care what the UK thinks. We're a long way away, a spent power from the past and they've spent years being told the US puts money in for little return. Quite apart from War of Independence mythmaking. But, largely, the UK is an irrelevance. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:01 - Jan 3 with 578 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:56 - Jan 3 by Churchman |
I doubt you will hear a peep out of anyone in Europe. They’re either allied to Putin/Trump (e.g. Hungary) or scared to death of them. The bigger European countries are run by self interested weedy little toadies like Starmer. I’ve no doubt Macron will cross his eyes and try and look important but isn’t and as for the Germans - to quote Birmingham supporters ….whoooo?
Trump will stand again or put in place a stooge, unless he dies. But I don’t think he needs to. The Americans have got a whiff of empire and power with the promise of filling their boots off the back of vassal states. No different to the other two important countries, China and Russia.
Might is right in 2025. Never thought I’d see the rise of authoritarianism in my lifetime. Shame there’s nobody to stand up to it. |
Trump's popularity is tanking in the US. It's down across all voting cohorts but especially with Independents. He had approval of -1 in that cohort when he took office and it's currently -43.
Many in the US are not happy at all with this type of stuff.
SB |  | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:05 - Jan 3 with 556 views | NthQldITFC |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:38 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
Unfortunately, there are elements within Europe - both in power and strong opposition - who favour the latter over the former. They have forgotten what our parents and grandparents went through. Or, worse, they hanker after a rosy-tinted (and often nationalistically-slanted) view of events. |
Yes, which is why it's the people who have to drive (through democracy which is still strong enough here) a philosophical movement away from the 'me first' agendas of the likes of Tr*mp, P*tin, N*tunyahoo et al. Create enough electoral pressure and compromise on polarised ideological matters enough to form an effective, socially and environmentally responsible bloc to stand up for civilisation.
It means dragging back some who have gone towards the short-term (and I would say shallow) populist right ideals with compromise in certain areas. It also means compromise from us smelly, pinko, lefty hippies too.
There's too much to lose for the whole world to hide behind 'the way things are done' now. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:05 - Jan 3 with 549 views | Guthrum |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:01 - Jan 3 by StokieBlue |
Trump's popularity is tanking in the US. It's down across all voting cohorts but especially with Independents. He had approval of -1 in that cohort when he took office and it's currently -43.
Many in the US are not happy at all with this type of stuff.
SB |
Always assuming there is another free and fair election in the USA in the near future.
What happens if the Democratic Party is banned by executive order as a threat to national security? Congress and the Supreme Court are under Trumpist control. Unless the military tries to seize power (very unlikely), they're stuffed. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:09 - Jan 3 with 536 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:05 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
Always assuming there is another free and fair election in the USA in the near future.
What happens if the Democratic Party is banned by executive order as a threat to national security? Congress and the Supreme Court are under Trumpist control. Unless the military tries to seize power (very unlikely), they're stuffed. |
That's never going to happen though is it, 48.3% of all US voters supported the Democratic party at the last election (77m vs 75m people).
Congress could very well not be under Trump control come August if the mid-terms head the way many are expecting.
He may well try crazy things but he isn't all powerful. Even the Supreme court has pushed back on some of his stuff.
SB | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:09 - Jan 3 with 534 views | NthQldITFC |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:47 - Jan 3 by ArnoldMoorhen |
That explains the timing.
Chinese diplomacy is famously three dimensional chess:
Make USA think China has designs on a South American base.
USA intervenes.
USA attacks Venezuela, Russia committed to attacking Ukraine, neither has the moral authority, or military capacity, to stop China absorbing Taiwan. |
That thought passed through my mind too. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:10 - Jan 3 with 528 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:09 - Jan 3 by StokieBlue |
That's never going to happen though is it, 48.3% of all US voters supported the Democratic party at the last election (77m vs 75m people).
Congress could very well not be under Trump control come August if the mid-terms head the way many are expecting.
He may well try crazy things but he isn't all powerful. Even the Supreme court has pushed back on some of his stuff.
SB |
Why isnt it going to happen? Congress is not relevant currently. It is bypassed. The Court is loaded.
No one has been able to stop what he is doing. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:13 - Jan 3 with 520 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:10 - Jan 3 by redrickstuhaart |
Why isnt it going to happen? Congress is not relevant currently. It is bypassed. The Court is loaded.
No one has been able to stop what he is doing. |
It's pretty hard to ban a party and label it as a terrorist organisation when 75m people voted for it. There would be tens of millions of people in the streets, it would probably be close to civil war.
He's getting away with a lot of stuff, I don't think he would get away with that. Congress isn't relevant because it's Republican, it becomes a lot more relevant if it isn't.
SB [Post edited 3 Jan 11:13]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:16 - Jan 3 with 512 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:13 - Jan 3 by StokieBlue |
It's pretty hard to ban a party and label it as a terrorist organisation when 75m people voted for it. There would be tens of millions of people in the streets, it would probably be close to civil war.
He's getting away with a lot of stuff, I don't think he would get away with that. Congress isn't relevant because it's Republican, it becomes a lot more relevant if it isn't.
SB [Post edited 3 Jan 11:13]
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He has ICE in masks abducting people and acting like the SS.
Whilst there is some passive resistance, nothing is really being done. This is how fascists start pulling the levers of oppression. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:17 - Jan 3 with 507 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:16 - Jan 3 by redrickstuhaart |
He has ICE in masks abducting people and acting like the SS.
Whilst there is some passive resistance, nothing is really being done. This is how fascists start pulling the levers of oppression. |
Agree, it's awful and there should be more push-back.
I'm not sure it's relevant to banning the democratic party though. Quite a big difference between that and telling 75m they essentially voted for terrorists and basically can't vote in the next elections.
I don't think it'll happen, hopefully I am right but guess we will see before the mid-terms in August.
SB [Post edited 3 Jan 11:18]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:18 - Jan 3 with 503 views | giant_stow |
Isnt this going to piss off maga bods? |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:19 - Jan 3 with 501 views | NthQldITFC |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 10:57 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
Even if Trump doesn't or cannot stand again, someone will play Maduro to his Chavez.
I don't believe a lot of Americans care what the UK thinks. We're a long way away, a spent power from the past and they've spent years being told the US puts money in for little return. Quite apart from War of Independence mythmaking. But, largely, the UK is an irrelevance. |
Nevertheless, a lot of them do have consciences, which must be feeling a little uncomfortable at least. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:20 - Jan 3 with 494 views | Churchman |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:01 - Jan 3 by StokieBlue |
Trump's popularity is tanking in the US. It's down across all voting cohorts but especially with Independents. He had approval of -1 in that cohort when he took office and it's currently -43.
Many in the US are not happy at all with this type of stuff.
SB |
Trump will declare it ‘fake nuws’ and declare any vote against him invalid. Thats why, should he live, he will have a third term. That’s when the fun will really start.
Will the people be blinded by conquest or will the scales fall from their eyes when they realise what a conman he is with the booty all going to him and his henchmen and the people getting nothing? | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:20 - Jan 3 with 491 views | StokieBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:18 - Jan 3 by giant_stow |
Isnt this going to piss off maga bods? |
Quite a few voted on the basis of "no foreign wars" so quite possibly.
Although that's also happening with the Epstein files.
SB | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:22 - Jan 3 with 482 views | Churchman |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:19 - Jan 3 by NthQldITFC |
Nevertheless, a lot of them do have consciences, which must be feeling a little uncomfortable at least. |
I doubt it. And we are an irrelevance. A joke of a country that produces good bad guys for their awful films and history re-writes. [Post edited 3 Jan 11:22]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:22 - Jan 3 with 475 views | StokieBlue |
Rubio saying Maduro will stand trial in the US.
They literally had Netanyahu there last week, someone with an outstanding international arrest warrant.
SB | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:24 - Jan 3 with 467 views | Guthrum |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 11:09 - Jan 3 by StokieBlue |
That's never going to happen though is it, 48.3% of all US voters supported the Democratic party at the last election (77m vs 75m people).
Congress could very well not be under Trump control come August if the mid-terms head the way many are expecting.
He may well try crazy things but he isn't all powerful. Even the Supreme court has pushed back on some of his stuff.
SB |
The point is that the checks and balances are simply not there any more. Who knows how far that can go?
There has been a bit of push-back on some elements of policy, but when it comes to maintaining power overall, that is a different matter. We've already seen what he is prepared to attempt (a full-on storming of Congress, pressure upon Governors to amend election results). This time around he has far more of his own people in place. There is always the issue in bipolar US politics that if Republicans don't back their man, the Democrats will win. Full stop. No narrow majorities requiring careful compromise, at the Executive level.
Trump doesn't care about the people who do not support him. They are BAD and WRONG, so can be ignored - if not railed against and depicted as traitors. | |
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