| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ 22:43 - Jan 7 with 7835 views | unstableblue |
Another very grim incident for the United States. And one already polarising in a way that is quite remarkable and grotesque to behold.
No one knows the full facts as yet. Just that a 37 year old mother has been shot in the head. Why call her a ‘professional agitator’ or ‘domestic terrorist’ almost immediately, before her family have even been told. How about reflection on a sad loss of life.
Just for once, take a breath, have some compassion. There may well be mitigating circumstances, it’s too early. Not everything is points scoring and belligerence.
Such a grim time for the world. Where’s the humanity. How low is this going to sink. [Post edited 7 Jan 22:44]
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 14:39 - Jan 9 with 1068 views | leitrimblue |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 14:34 - Jan 9 by HarleydavidsonBlue |
So you are quite happy for that Moron (PM) to push through legislation that (a) was not in the labour manifesto, or (b) not even discussed in parliament !! If you are OK with this type of government, then I suggest you you go and live in Russia, where they do not get a choice.
Maybe its you that is not playing with a full deck ? |
Waaaaaaiiiittt a minute, looks like Hamish as a contender.
Tell us more Mr Harley Davidson |  | | |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 14:43 - Jan 9 with 1038 views | positivity |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 14:34 - Jan 9 by HarleydavidsonBlue |
So you are quite happy for that Moron (PM) to push through legislation that (a) was not in the labour manifesto, or (b) not even discussed in parliament !! If you are OK with this type of government, then I suggest you you go and live in Russia, where they do not get a choice.
Maybe its you that is not playing with a full deck ? |
translation:- wibble |  |
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 15:05 - Jan 9 with 964 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 14:34 - Jan 9 by HarleydavidsonBlue |
So you are quite happy for that Moron (PM) to push through legislation that (a) was not in the labour manifesto, or (b) not even discussed in parliament !! If you are OK with this type of government, then I suggest you you go and live in Russia, where they do not get a choice.
Maybe its you that is not playing with a full deck ? |
REFORM ARE F****ING RUSSIA YOU IGNORAMUS.
Just open your eyes and do some research for goodness sake! Stop believing the single biggest propaganda tool that is social media that is controlled by Russian shills and bots. It's so terrifyingly basic. |  | | |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 16:24 - Jan 9 with 875 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 14:34 - Jan 9 by HarleydavidsonBlue |
So you are quite happy for that Moron (PM) to push through legislation that (a) was not in the labour manifesto, or (b) not even discussed in parliament !! If you are OK with this type of government, then I suggest you you go and live in Russia, where they do not get a choice.
Maybe its you that is not playing with a full deck ? |
Don't be a tw@t
Putin murders people
All govts carry out stuff not in their manifesto
And your hero Nige is a big admirer of Putin
And the Welsh Reform bloke was guilty of spying for them.
Good post otherwise though [Post edited 9 Jan 23:08]
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 16:26 - Jan 9 with 865 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 13:34 - Jan 9 by HotShotHamish |
I am surmising that most of you that have posted have done so having only looked at one side of the evidence.
Because that evidence suits your anti-Trump narrative you all just blindly follow it and then post.
The comments on here are bordering on the pathetic (really wanted to use the term bed-wetting instead!)
There are enough videos out there which clearly show the lady blocking the path of a federal vehicle, then driving into a federal employee when challenged, in an attempt to evade arrest.
In no way do I condone the pointless killing but then again the U.S is a different country to the UK.
To read the comments on this board you would have thought the ICE agent just went up to a completely innocent bystander and murdered them. This is not the case.
I do not care how many of you get upset at having to read the truth, rather than concocting a narrative that suits your own political views.
Most of you on here contribute to the internet being a cesspit, but the very same people seem to think they are better than most others.
This board is a Liberal's wet dream and most of you are willing actors in the play. |
I'm certainly better than you.
Fans of state murder are not high on my respect list.
Try Munich 1936 - might suit you better | | | |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 16:33 - Jan 9 with 836 views | noggin |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 13:34 - Jan 9 by HotShotHamish |
I am surmising that most of you that have posted have done so having only looked at one side of the evidence.
Because that evidence suits your anti-Trump narrative you all just blindly follow it and then post.
The comments on here are bordering on the pathetic (really wanted to use the term bed-wetting instead!)
There are enough videos out there which clearly show the lady blocking the path of a federal vehicle, then driving into a federal employee when challenged, in an attempt to evade arrest.
In no way do I condone the pointless killing but then again the U.S is a different country to the UK.
To read the comments on this board you would have thought the ICE agent just went up to a completely innocent bystander and murdered them. This is not the case.
I do not care how many of you get upset at having to read the truth, rather than concocting a narrative that suits your own political views.
Most of you on here contribute to the internet being a cesspit, but the very same people seem to think they are better than most others.
This board is a Liberal's wet dream and most of you are willing actors in the play. |
"There are enough videos out there which clearly show the lady blocking the path of a federal vehicle, then driving into a federal employee when challenged, in an attempt to evade arrest."
Why haven't you linked any then? |  |
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| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 16:38 - Jan 9 with 825 views | unstableblue |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 13:34 - Jan 9 by HotShotHamish |
I am surmising that most of you that have posted have done so having only looked at one side of the evidence.
Because that evidence suits your anti-Trump narrative you all just blindly follow it and then post.
The comments on here are bordering on the pathetic (really wanted to use the term bed-wetting instead!)
There are enough videos out there which clearly show the lady blocking the path of a federal vehicle, then driving into a federal employee when challenged, in an attempt to evade arrest.
In no way do I condone the pointless killing but then again the U.S is a different country to the UK.
To read the comments on this board you would have thought the ICE agent just went up to a completely innocent bystander and murdered them. This is not the case.
I do not care how many of you get upset at having to read the truth, rather than concocting a narrative that suits your own political views.
Most of you on here contribute to the internet being a cesspit, but the very same people seem to think they are better than most others.
This board is a Liberal's wet dream and most of you are willing actors in the play. |
It's easy to deride HotShot's post, despite the tone (bedwetters a bit unnecessary!). But this incident is not COMPLETELY black and white, and we cannot allow the UK to fall into such polarised rhetoric, which we are on the path to, heavily influence by this US zeitgeist.
My original post wasn't making a judgement on the event and the culpability, it was just highlighting the lack of 'humanity' and just basic professional 'governance/leadership' in rushing to those statements about the incident and victim without really understanding the facts, and considering the victim. The President of the United State should simply not use that tone and position, but people are numb to it now.
It is frankly remarkable that an incident, that is so well recorded, can have such remarkably polarised views of that actually happened. Its staggering to have these TWO interpretations:
1) MAGA View
A lesbian, left wing terrorist agitator and poet, who travelled out of state to cause disruption, who was trained in using a vehicle as a weapon . Blocked law enforcement officers from carrying out essential actions, and inhibiting the arrest and deportation of illegal immigrants who pose a criminal threat to US citizens, which was mandated by the American people in the last presidential election.
The agitator blocked traffic, evaded arrest despite clear instruction, and intentionally aimed a vehicle directly at a well trained and experienced Immigration Officer who had previously been involved in a weaponised vehicle incident.
The vehicle was aimed directly at the officer who in self defense, as per training, fired shots that killed the victim. Paramedics were called.
The officer was struck heavily by the vehicle and required immediate hospitalization. And the only way for a fair investigation is to involve federal agencies, with interest in the incident, rather than state law enforcement or governance.
That is the view of millions upon millions of Americans, and the view of POTUS, the Vice President, Head of Homeland Security, and Social Media owner Elon Musk.
2) The LEFT and CENTRE View
The ICE operations across America have been large scale, and are now getting funding to increase further. The original remit was to target and remove undocumented immigrants who pose public-safety or national security risks, using well trained federal officers.
There has been complete overreach of this federal remit, and the ICE operations pose a public security threat, and are unwelcome in most areas, and are running counter to local government and law enforcement officials. The overreach includes clear racial profiling (non-white stops are tiny), random sweeps, stop and search, questionable operational practices, the large scale arrest of teachers, workers, people adding value in communities - dragging care workers out of kindergartens. With two direct fatal shooting. 30+ deaths in custody.
The ICE officers wear masks, do not wear numbers, are being recruited with insufficient diligence, training is inadequate, and recruitment includes a $50k bonus, with questionable ad campaigns.
Multiple american citizens have been arrested, including veterans, and incarcerated in poor conditions, the vast majority of non-white ethnicity.
Local communities at scale are pushing back on ICE operations, including camera phone monitoring, confrontation/blockades, and use of whistles to indicate ICE operations.
The victim was Renee Nicole Good, a mother, who lived locally to the incident. She was part of ICEWatch a citizen initiative to protect people against ICE overreach and violence.
A major ICE operation was taking place in a sensitive area (George Floyd) was underway with significant public push back and crowds on the street, the environment had become volatile and emotions were running high.
The victim was in the area, potentially blocking ICE actions or just in her neighborhood, this is unclear.
*She was trying to leave the scene, and waves through and allows a vehicle to pass.
*An ICE Agent circles the car filming on a phone, and passes in front of the car.
*Two ICE Agents then approach rapidly in a car, then approach on foot shouting "get out of the f@cking car" and one agent tries to open the door, the victim was scared.
* The victim reverses and locks the steering to the right, the circling Agent is now on the left side front corner of the vehicle, the care moves forward and to the right, there is lite to no contact on the agent.
* In that instant the ICE Agent fires three shots one into the side of the windscreen, and two into the side window as the car has now (as per original steering lock) turned right.
* The ICE Agent is unharmed and walks rapidly to the car which has crashed into a lamppost down the street to the right. He walks rapidly back from the scene, clearly unhurt, requests his colleagues call 911, and enters a vehicle and quickly leaves the scene with multiple other ICE Agents.
* A neighbour in the street who is physician offers to do CPR on the victim, this is refused but ICE agent organised medical support takes time. Likely the victim is already dead due to the shots being to the head.
The local government and law enforcement is being refused access to the investigation and there is a high likelhood of a cover up.
Millions upon millions believe this point of view.
JUST WOW! how can an event with this much coverage have such polar opposite views. Its remarkable.
Now to get back to HotShotHamish and give a view:
- the ICE programme is deeply problematic and is raising public safety issues, and its efficacy should be the major focus, but is still supported in many quarters
- Donald Trump's federal to state interface and his focus on democrat cities for ICE waves is questionable in its motives, and dangerous
- Renee Nicole Good put herself in what seems a dangerous situation, and it seems was an activist, albeit the anti-ICE movement involves millions and their motives have validity
- *Multiple forensic analysts based on multiple videos (and in part eye witness testimony) are verifying the *second account events sequence, and not that of MAGA and POTUS view. This was excessive force, pure and simple, and the officers training has to come into question.
In short HotShot, in relation to actual moment of shooting the evidence points against your view which frankly builds the 'anti-Trump narrative', but with some truth in your statement that she may have been blocking the activities of ICE Agents. Agents with a very questionable remit, ethics and competency. [Post edited 9 Jan 16:42]
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 16:46 - Jan 9 with 769 views | Herbivore |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 14:34 - Jan 9 by HarleydavidsonBlue |
So you are quite happy for that Moron (PM) to push through legislation that (a) was not in the labour manifesto, or (b) not even discussed in parliament !! If you are OK with this type of government, then I suggest you you go and live in Russia, where they do not get a choice.
Maybe its you that is not playing with a full deck ? |
Lolz. U ok hun? |  |
| |
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| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 16:58 - Jan 9 with 706 views | lowhouseblue |
| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 16:38 - Jan 9 by unstableblue |
It's easy to deride HotShot's post, despite the tone (bedwetters a bit unnecessary!). But this incident is not COMPLETELY black and white, and we cannot allow the UK to fall into such polarised rhetoric, which we are on the path to, heavily influence by this US zeitgeist.
My original post wasn't making a judgement on the event and the culpability, it was just highlighting the lack of 'humanity' and just basic professional 'governance/leadership' in rushing to those statements about the incident and victim without really understanding the facts, and considering the victim. The President of the United State should simply not use that tone and position, but people are numb to it now.
It is frankly remarkable that an incident, that is so well recorded, can have such remarkably polarised views of that actually happened. Its staggering to have these TWO interpretations:
1) MAGA View
A lesbian, left wing terrorist agitator and poet, who travelled out of state to cause disruption, who was trained in using a vehicle as a weapon . Blocked law enforcement officers from carrying out essential actions, and inhibiting the arrest and deportation of illegal immigrants who pose a criminal threat to US citizens, which was mandated by the American people in the last presidential election.
The agitator blocked traffic, evaded arrest despite clear instruction, and intentionally aimed a vehicle directly at a well trained and experienced Immigration Officer who had previously been involved in a weaponised vehicle incident.
The vehicle was aimed directly at the officer who in self defense, as per training, fired shots that killed the victim. Paramedics were called.
The officer was struck heavily by the vehicle and required immediate hospitalization. And the only way for a fair investigation is to involve federal agencies, with interest in the incident, rather than state law enforcement or governance.
That is the view of millions upon millions of Americans, and the view of POTUS, the Vice President, Head of Homeland Security, and Social Media owner Elon Musk.
2) The LEFT and CENTRE View
The ICE operations across America have been large scale, and are now getting funding to increase further. The original remit was to target and remove undocumented immigrants who pose public-safety or national security risks, using well trained federal officers.
There has been complete overreach of this federal remit, and the ICE operations pose a public security threat, and are unwelcome in most areas, and are running counter to local government and law enforcement officials. The overreach includes clear racial profiling (non-white stops are tiny), random sweeps, stop and search, questionable operational practices, the large scale arrest of teachers, workers, people adding value in communities - dragging care workers out of kindergartens. With two direct fatal shooting. 30+ deaths in custody.
The ICE officers wear masks, do not wear numbers, are being recruited with insufficient diligence, training is inadequate, and recruitment includes a $50k bonus, with questionable ad campaigns.
Multiple american citizens have been arrested, including veterans, and incarcerated in poor conditions, the vast majority of non-white ethnicity.
Local communities at scale are pushing back on ICE operations, including camera phone monitoring, confrontation/blockades, and use of whistles to indicate ICE operations.
The victim was Renee Nicole Good, a mother, who lived locally to the incident. She was part of ICEWatch a citizen initiative to protect people against ICE overreach and violence.
A major ICE operation was taking place in a sensitive area (George Floyd) was underway with significant public push back and crowds on the street, the environment had become volatile and emotions were running high.
The victim was in the area, potentially blocking ICE actions or just in her neighborhood, this is unclear.
*She was trying to leave the scene, and waves through and allows a vehicle to pass.
*An ICE Agent circles the car filming on a phone, and passes in front of the car.
*Two ICE Agents then approach rapidly in a car, then approach on foot shouting "get out of the f@cking car" and one agent tries to open the door, the victim was scared.
* The victim reverses and locks the steering to the right, the circling Agent is now on the left side front corner of the vehicle, the care moves forward and to the right, there is lite to no contact on the agent.
* In that instant the ICE Agent fires three shots one into the side of the windscreen, and two into the side window as the car has now (as per original steering lock) turned right.
* The ICE Agent is unharmed and walks rapidly to the car which has crashed into a lamppost down the street to the right. He walks rapidly back from the scene, clearly unhurt, requests his colleagues call 911, and enters a vehicle and quickly leaves the scene with multiple other ICE Agents.
* A neighbour in the street who is physician offers to do CPR on the victim, this is refused but ICE agent organised medical support takes time. Likely the victim is already dead due to the shots being to the head.
The local government and law enforcement is being refused access to the investigation and there is a high likelhood of a cover up.
Millions upon millions believe this point of view.
JUST WOW! how can an event with this much coverage have such polar opposite views. Its remarkable.
Now to get back to HotShotHamish and give a view:
- the ICE programme is deeply problematic and is raising public safety issues, and its efficacy should be the major focus, but is still supported in many quarters
- Donald Trump's federal to state interface and his focus on democrat cities for ICE waves is questionable in its motives, and dangerous
- Renee Nicole Good put herself in what seems a dangerous situation, and it seems was an activist, albeit the anti-ICE movement involves millions and their motives have validity
- *Multiple forensic analysts based on multiple videos (and in part eye witness testimony) are verifying the *second account events sequence, and not that of MAGA and POTUS view. This was excessive force, pure and simple, and the officers training has to come into question.
In short HotShot, in relation to actual moment of shooting the evidence points against your view which frankly builds the 'anti-Trump narrative', but with some truth in your statement that she may have been blocking the activities of ICE Agents. Agents with a very questionable remit, ethics and competency. [Post edited 9 Jan 16:42]
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i reject the first one having watched the videos. i don't necessarily have to agree entirely with the second one - other than that the officer was not at significant risk and his action was disproportionate and reckless. i'd have no issue with them arresting her for obstructing them - if that's the us law.
it's a spectrum rather than two world views. you can call out a catastrophic abuse of police force without signing up to the other dozen or so paras of view 2. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:20 - Jan 9 with 696 views | NthQldITFC |
| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 16:58 - Jan 9 by lowhouseblue |
i reject the first one having watched the videos. i don't necessarily have to agree entirely with the second one - other than that the officer was not at significant risk and his action was disproportionate and reckless. i'd have no issue with them arresting her for obstructing them - if that's the us law.
it's a spectrum rather than two world views. you can call out a catastrophic abuse of police force without signing up to the other dozen or so paras of view 2. |
I write this completely calmly (as you do) and without prejudice:
Which specific parts of the second case would you not agree with, lowhouseblue?
The only bits that I can see which are vaguely challengeable are:
1. scale - subjective, what is the reference. Then again, probably unprecedented?
2. overreach, racial profiling - I don't know, but I'd be very surprised if not.
3. trying to leave the scene - actually, I don't think that's challengeable at all,
4. victim was scared - who wouldn't be?
5. little to no contact - I would challenge 'no contact', but allow 'little contact' (and at low speed).
I think I've been very generous there, as a 'radical lefty', and that leaves an awful lot of damning unchallengeable content.
In reality the only really challengeable point is about the degree of contact. |  |
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| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:23 - Jan 9 with 688 views | unstableblue |
| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 16:58 - Jan 9 by lowhouseblue |
i reject the first one having watched the videos. i don't necessarily have to agree entirely with the second one - other than that the officer was not at significant risk and his action was disproportionate and reckless. i'd have no issue with them arresting her for obstructing them - if that's the us law.
it's a spectrum rather than two world views. you can call out a catastrophic abuse of police force without signing up to the other dozen or so paras of view 2. |
I agree its just not black and white, as factions and social media wants everything and everyone to be. People can and should be allowed to have different views, but the views in the USA at this time are so polarized, it is indicating a society being very broken.
But sometimes there is less grey and there are facts. It clearly WAS a catastrophic over zealous action from the police officer as you state - two FURTHER shots into the side window of a car by a woman who must have been distressed, when the car is past him, and clearly turning away from him, smacks at someone out of control and not sufficiently trained. Its the steering on hard lock right, and the false hospitalization claim, that makes the MAGA narrative really concerning.
As for the other paragraphs in view 2, that was the left's view, but may well be genuine - take a look into the ICE deployment across the USA, it genuinely has exceeded its original remit and is carrying significant public safety risk. And has deeply questionable ethnic profiling.
Final point from me, honest, I do think that the victim was trying in her mind to do good by being involved, to protect what in her view was innocent people, community members. It wasn't born out of goal to sow terror - and so the domestic terrorism label really does't sit well. And the demonization of her by Fox News anchors is particularly sickening. | |
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| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:28 - Jan 9 with 622 views | lowhouseblue |
| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:23 - Jan 9 by unstableblue |
I agree its just not black and white, as factions and social media wants everything and everyone to be. People can and should be allowed to have different views, but the views in the USA at this time are so polarized, it is indicating a society being very broken.
But sometimes there is less grey and there are facts. It clearly WAS a catastrophic over zealous action from the police officer as you state - two FURTHER shots into the side window of a car by a woman who must have been distressed, when the car is past him, and clearly turning away from him, smacks at someone out of control and not sufficiently trained. Its the steering on hard lock right, and the false hospitalization claim, that makes the MAGA narrative really concerning.
As for the other paragraphs in view 2, that was the left's view, but may well be genuine - take a look into the ICE deployment across the USA, it genuinely has exceeded its original remit and is carrying significant public safety risk. And has deeply questionable ethnic profiling.
Final point from me, honest, I do think that the victim was trying in her mind to do good by being involved, to protect what in her view was innocent people, community members. It wasn't born out of goal to sow terror - and so the domestic terrorism label really does't sit well. And the demonization of her by Fox News anchors is particularly sickening. |
i agree. in particular this is what social media produces - two opposing camps each with a complete world view that each new event needs to be inserted into. drip by drip social media feeds people the 'facts' to corral them firmly into their chosen side. we all need to rebel, reject social media, and break out of the compound to which we have been allocated! | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:35 - Jan 9 with 641 views | positivity |
| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 16:38 - Jan 9 by unstableblue |
It's easy to deride HotShot's post, despite the tone (bedwetters a bit unnecessary!). But this incident is not COMPLETELY black and white, and we cannot allow the UK to fall into such polarised rhetoric, which we are on the path to, heavily influence by this US zeitgeist.
My original post wasn't making a judgement on the event and the culpability, it was just highlighting the lack of 'humanity' and just basic professional 'governance/leadership' in rushing to those statements about the incident and victim without really understanding the facts, and considering the victim. The President of the United State should simply not use that tone and position, but people are numb to it now.
It is frankly remarkable that an incident, that is so well recorded, can have such remarkably polarised views of that actually happened. Its staggering to have these TWO interpretations:
1) MAGA View
A lesbian, left wing terrorist agitator and poet, who travelled out of state to cause disruption, who was trained in using a vehicle as a weapon . Blocked law enforcement officers from carrying out essential actions, and inhibiting the arrest and deportation of illegal immigrants who pose a criminal threat to US citizens, which was mandated by the American people in the last presidential election.
The agitator blocked traffic, evaded arrest despite clear instruction, and intentionally aimed a vehicle directly at a well trained and experienced Immigration Officer who had previously been involved in a weaponised vehicle incident.
The vehicle was aimed directly at the officer who in self defense, as per training, fired shots that killed the victim. Paramedics were called.
The officer was struck heavily by the vehicle and required immediate hospitalization. And the only way for a fair investigation is to involve federal agencies, with interest in the incident, rather than state law enforcement or governance.
That is the view of millions upon millions of Americans, and the view of POTUS, the Vice President, Head of Homeland Security, and Social Media owner Elon Musk.
2) The LEFT and CENTRE View
The ICE operations across America have been large scale, and are now getting funding to increase further. The original remit was to target and remove undocumented immigrants who pose public-safety or national security risks, using well trained federal officers.
There has been complete overreach of this federal remit, and the ICE operations pose a public security threat, and are unwelcome in most areas, and are running counter to local government and law enforcement officials. The overreach includes clear racial profiling (non-white stops are tiny), random sweeps, stop and search, questionable operational practices, the large scale arrest of teachers, workers, people adding value in communities - dragging care workers out of kindergartens. With two direct fatal shooting. 30+ deaths in custody.
The ICE officers wear masks, do not wear numbers, are being recruited with insufficient diligence, training is inadequate, and recruitment includes a $50k bonus, with questionable ad campaigns.
Multiple american citizens have been arrested, including veterans, and incarcerated in poor conditions, the vast majority of non-white ethnicity.
Local communities at scale are pushing back on ICE operations, including camera phone monitoring, confrontation/blockades, and use of whistles to indicate ICE operations.
The victim was Renee Nicole Good, a mother, who lived locally to the incident. She was part of ICEWatch a citizen initiative to protect people against ICE overreach and violence.
A major ICE operation was taking place in a sensitive area (George Floyd) was underway with significant public push back and crowds on the street, the environment had become volatile and emotions were running high.
The victim was in the area, potentially blocking ICE actions or just in her neighborhood, this is unclear.
*She was trying to leave the scene, and waves through and allows a vehicle to pass.
*An ICE Agent circles the car filming on a phone, and passes in front of the car.
*Two ICE Agents then approach rapidly in a car, then approach on foot shouting "get out of the f@cking car" and one agent tries to open the door, the victim was scared.
* The victim reverses and locks the steering to the right, the circling Agent is now on the left side front corner of the vehicle, the care moves forward and to the right, there is lite to no contact on the agent.
* In that instant the ICE Agent fires three shots one into the side of the windscreen, and two into the side window as the car has now (as per original steering lock) turned right.
* The ICE Agent is unharmed and walks rapidly to the car which has crashed into a lamppost down the street to the right. He walks rapidly back from the scene, clearly unhurt, requests his colleagues call 911, and enters a vehicle and quickly leaves the scene with multiple other ICE Agents.
* A neighbour in the street who is physician offers to do CPR on the victim, this is refused but ICE agent organised medical support takes time. Likely the victim is already dead due to the shots being to the head.
The local government and law enforcement is being refused access to the investigation and there is a high likelhood of a cover up.
Millions upon millions believe this point of view.
JUST WOW! how can an event with this much coverage have such polar opposite views. Its remarkable.
Now to get back to HotShotHamish and give a view:
- the ICE programme is deeply problematic and is raising public safety issues, and its efficacy should be the major focus, but is still supported in many quarters
- Donald Trump's federal to state interface and his focus on democrat cities for ICE waves is questionable in its motives, and dangerous
- Renee Nicole Good put herself in what seems a dangerous situation, and it seems was an activist, albeit the anti-ICE movement involves millions and their motives have validity
- *Multiple forensic analysts based on multiple videos (and in part eye witness testimony) are verifying the *second account events sequence, and not that of MAGA and POTUS view. This was excessive force, pure and simple, and the officers training has to come into question.
In short HotShot, in relation to actual moment of shooting the evidence points against your view which frankly builds the 'anti-Trump narrative', but with some truth in your statement that she may have been blocking the activities of ICE Agents. Agents with a very questionable remit, ethics and competency. [Post edited 9 Jan 16:42]
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it's not a left or centre view, it's also the view of millions on the right-wing who have eyes and are not brainwashed by the maga media | |
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| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:41 - Jan 9 with 618 views | unstableblue |
| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:20 - Jan 9 by NthQldITFC |
I write this completely calmly (as you do) and without prejudice:
Which specific parts of the second case would you not agree with, lowhouseblue?
The only bits that I can see which are vaguely challengeable are:
1. scale - subjective, what is the reference. Then again, probably unprecedented?
2. overreach, racial profiling - I don't know, but I'd be very surprised if not.
3. trying to leave the scene - actually, I don't think that's challengeable at all,
4. victim was scared - who wouldn't be?
5. little to no contact - I would challenge 'no contact', but allow 'little contact' (and at low speed).
I think I've been very generous there, as a 'radical lefty', and that leaves an awful lot of damning unchallengeable content.
In reality the only really challengeable point is about the degree of contact. |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c394vjz9w1dt?post=asset%3A40cbc0ec-c0d7-4e74-91e
This is worth a watch.
ICE as I pointed out is going to massively expand.
I think these daily arrest targets a major issue, AND the tactic of arresting people who are going to make immigration process progress is frankly DISGUSTING. | |
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| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:45 - Jan 9 with 609 views | redrickstuhaart |
| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:23 - Jan 9 by unstableblue |
I agree its just not black and white, as factions and social media wants everything and everyone to be. People can and should be allowed to have different views, but the views in the USA at this time are so polarized, it is indicating a society being very broken.
But sometimes there is less grey and there are facts. It clearly WAS a catastrophic over zealous action from the police officer as you state - two FURTHER shots into the side window of a car by a woman who must have been distressed, when the car is past him, and clearly turning away from him, smacks at someone out of control and not sufficiently trained. Its the steering on hard lock right, and the false hospitalization claim, that makes the MAGA narrative really concerning.
As for the other paragraphs in view 2, that was the left's view, but may well be genuine - take a look into the ICE deployment across the USA, it genuinely has exceeded its original remit and is carrying significant public safety risk. And has deeply questionable ethnic profiling.
Final point from me, honest, I do think that the victim was trying in her mind to do good by being involved, to protect what in her view was innocent people, community members. It wasn't born out of goal to sow terror - and so the domestic terrorism label really does't sit well. And the demonization of her by Fox News anchors is particularly sickening. |
Very little in real life is black and white. But this is about as clear as it could possibly be. The shots were fired in anger or to prevent escape, not in defence. The car was driving away when he adjusted his aim and shot twice through the side window. He then apparnetly left the scene.
That is murderous, on any analysis. And the narrative immediately put out by those in power is so patently false, they cannot believe in it, but will stick by it and people will buy into it. That is terrifying. As is the literal rewriting of history about Jan 6th which the whitehouse has physically undertaken on websites.
This is a fascist authoritarian state, looking to move into a situaiton where military / mercenary control is imposed.
If a contrarian view is put forward for everything, people begin to doubt and people begin to genuinely think there is a reasonable debate to be had about things where, 5 years ago, that would not have been the mindset. Terrifying and potentially catastrophic for humankind. [Post edited 9 Jan 17:48]
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 18:21 - Jan 9 with 546 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 13:34 - Jan 9 by HotShotHamish |
I am surmising that most of you that have posted have done so having only looked at one side of the evidence.
Because that evidence suits your anti-Trump narrative you all just blindly follow it and then post.
The comments on here are bordering on the pathetic (really wanted to use the term bed-wetting instead!)
There are enough videos out there which clearly show the lady blocking the path of a federal vehicle, then driving into a federal employee when challenged, in an attempt to evade arrest.
In no way do I condone the pointless killing but then again the U.S is a different country to the UK.
To read the comments on this board you would have thought the ICE agent just went up to a completely innocent bystander and murdered them. This is not the case.
I do not care how many of you get upset at having to read the truth, rather than concocting a narrative that suits your own political views.
Most of you on here contribute to the internet being a cesspit, but the very same people seem to think they are better than most others.
This board is a Liberal's wet dream and most of you are willing actors in the play. |
You're the same person who believed the smear story that Polanski "spent time persuading women he could enlarge their breasts by hypnotism", "wants a communist economy" and with no irony declared, "He is a complete lunatic".
On the ICE shooting, the evidence is what we've all seen with our eyes.
Funny how you post your lunatic nonsense without any evidence and then disappear from the thread. |  |
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 18:24 - Jan 9 with 529 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 18:21 - Jan 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're the same person who believed the smear story that Polanski "spent time persuading women he could enlarge their breasts by hypnotism", "wants a communist economy" and with no irony declared, "He is a complete lunatic".
On the ICE shooting, the evidence is what we've all seen with our eyes.
Funny how you post your lunatic nonsense without any evidence and then disappear from the thread. |
Just a note for people - there are faked AI versions of the footage now available, which seek to show Ice in a better light. Be on guard for them. | | | |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 18:30 - Jan 9 with 508 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 14:34 - Jan 9 by HarleydavidsonBlue |
So you are quite happy for that Moron (PM) to push through legislation that (a) was not in the labour manifesto, or (b) not even discussed in parliament !! If you are OK with this type of government, then I suggest you you go and live in Russia, where they do not get a choice.
Maybe its you that is not playing with a full deck ? |
(a) Anything in particular that’s got your goat that wasn’t in the manifesto? It’s normal for legislation to be passed that’s not in the manifesto, but are there any Acts in particular you have in mind?
(b) Presumably you’re talking about Statutory Instruments. Again, is there anything in particular you’re not happy with? They can cause problems and ideally should be restricted as much as possible imo. There’s nothing that stands out in the data to suggest they’re being abused by this Govt though. The volume of documents related to SIs seems fairly steady (nb this isn’t the number of SI, just the number of docs, which shows a similar amount of activity). https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi |  |
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 18:57 - Jan 9 with 467 views | noggin |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 18:21 - Jan 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're the same person who believed the smear story that Polanski "spent time persuading women he could enlarge their breasts by hypnotism", "wants a communist economy" and with no irony declared, "He is a complete lunatic".
On the ICE shooting, the evidence is what we've all seen with our eyes.
Funny how you post your lunatic nonsense without any evidence and then disappear from the thread. |
Look at his/her posting history. Probably best just ignored. | |
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 19:40 - Jan 9 with 388 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
That murdering ICE c#nt really didn't like being called "big boy" did he! |  |
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 19:43 - Jan 9 with 388 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 18:21 - Jan 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're the same person who believed the smear story that Polanski "spent time persuading women he could enlarge their breasts by hypnotism", "wants a communist economy" and with no irony declared, "He is a complete lunatic".
On the ICE shooting, the evidence is what we've all seen with our eyes.
Funny how you post your lunatic nonsense without any evidence and then disappear from the thread. |
Polanski was supposed to have done what?  
Apart from the comedy value, there’s no point engaging. Unless this is all supposed to be satirical and ironic. Not that I can tell the difference between the idiots and the jokers any more. | |
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| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 19:47 - Jan 9 with 379 views | Kievthegreat |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 19:40 - Jan 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That murdering ICE c#nt really didn't like being called "big boy" did he! |
I struggle to see how releasing a video of the victim being calm seconds before her execution is good for the US Government, but they are quadrupling down right now. |  | | |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 20:10 - Jan 9 with 313 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 19:40 - Jan 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That murdering ICE c#nt really didn't like being called "big boy" did he! |
It was a red rag to a bull, wasn’t it? A thin-skinned, misogynistic, murderous bull. She may well have regrets for winding him up now, not that that excuses him of course. I’m sure police attending incidents in this country have been called far worse, but they manage to avoid shooting people in the face for name calling. | |
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| Leaked? Vance tripling down is surreal: calling your victim a “f@ckin bitch” on 21:23 - Jan 9 with 233 views | unstableblue |
| Trump perhaps for once, just wait before you ‘Tweet’ on 19:47 - Jan 9 by Kievthegreat |
I struggle to see how releasing a video of the victim being calm seconds before her execution is good for the US Government, but they are quadrupling down right now. |
… after shooting her three times, and previously showing the victim being calm towards the shooter and saying “I’m not mad at you” (sarcastically), then a dog in the back seat with the window open, then a calm partner clearly winding up the shooter, and then showing the car being reversed and then the wheel yanked over to avoid the shooter as driving away. To corroborate existing videos.
It’s not really the propaganda short perhaps Vance is thinking or wants it to be.
Also the head of homeland security had tripled down on the ‘injured after being hit and requiring hospitalisation narrative” whilst seeming to suggest no suspension.
Don’t get me wrong, the video shows that the couple were protesters. But that ain’t no domestic terrorist or a weaponised vehicle. There’s a dog in it for goodness sake.
Surreal times. | |
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| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 21:56 - Jan 9 with 169 views | iamatractorboy |
| I think this post is important - balanced views needed - lets look at FACTS on 17:45 - Jan 9 by redrickstuhaart |
Very little in real life is black and white. But this is about as clear as it could possibly be. The shots were fired in anger or to prevent escape, not in defence. The car was driving away when he adjusted his aim and shot twice through the side window. He then apparnetly left the scene.
That is murderous, on any analysis. And the narrative immediately put out by those in power is so patently false, they cannot believe in it, but will stick by it and people will buy into it. That is terrifying. As is the literal rewriting of history about Jan 6th which the whitehouse has physically undertaken on websites.
This is a fascist authoritarian state, looking to move into a situaiton where military / mercenary control is imposed.
If a contrarian view is put forward for everything, people begin to doubt and people begin to genuinely think there is a reasonable debate to be had about things where, 5 years ago, that would not have been the mindset. Terrifying and potentially catastrophic for humankind. [Post edited 9 Jan 17:48]
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Well said | | | |
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