| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences 09:01 - Feb 4 with 3037 views | DJR |
https://www.theguardian.com/en
"If I think about what this means, I want to cry’: what happens when a city loses its university?
When Essex University’s Southend campus opened, it was a message of hope for a ‘left behind’ UK seaside town. Its closure will be felt far beyond its 800 students, some of whom will not get their degrees"
Something like this has already happened in Hastings, when Brighton University closed its campus there.
[Post edited 4 Feb 9:05]
|  | | |  |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:46 - Feb 4 with 733 views | lowhouseblue |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:43 - Feb 4 by Kievthegreat |
An MPs job is to represent peoples interests. That means sometimes you act according to peoples views, but if that view runs counter to their interest, or the interest of the country, MPs have an obligation to make and explain that decision or situation.
I doubt you'd have got a majority of people saying let's bail out the banks in 2008/9, but the government needed to make that decision. Opinions are important, but they don't override the responsibility that as MPs/Governments, you have more information and can make a more informed decision than someone answering a yougov poll. |
does that mean that you can pursue policies without any electoral mandate? policies that are rejected by a large majority in every poll, and which the governing party promises to reverse at elections and then ignores when in power? it's an interesting take. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:48 - Feb 4 with 719 views | darkhorse28 |
You think our universities should exist to educate the world?
Maybe. Not sure it works when it excludes indigenous people - if they didn’t self loath so much I’m sure the guardian could muster an ‘indigenous population priced out of education headline’ skin colour and religion dependent of course.
In Scotland I’ve rented a property to international students on and off for many years. They pay a fortune to be here …, university places are ‘free’ but capped, and so universities flood their places with those that pay the most, international students.
The consequence. Attainment for children from poor backgrounds is the worst in the UK …, in the only place.., where there is free access.., let that sink in.
And that’s 100% a product of international students paying more, and universities being run as businesses.
It’s weird.
It’s like the guardian just hate themselves, in any other country, the story would be how local people, especially in poverty, are denied access to education, because they have less money…, my Chinese students can afford Edinburgh rents, local students really can’t.
Really weird.
We shouldn’t run universities as businesses to expand and educate the world, especially when that resource leaves the UK and doesn’t add value and denies local people that opportunity.
I guess it starts by charging the same fees, and stopping the incentive to prioritise foreign students above others. And capping places not for local student but for foreign students. The number I’ve met that really can’t speak English very well at all, but can afford the fees, it’s not very kind is it, to take their money, and not educate. At the expense of local students, craving opportunity.
We have given priority to those that pay the most, and the guardian thinking that’s a good thing, shows their ignorance, and hypocrisy.
I’m sure they sat down with an agenda around xenophobia and worked backwards, but they’ve got this very wrong, we’ve prioritised international students for a very long time, to make as much money as we could and expand those universities.
Where I live in Edinburgh there now thousands of homes for students.., and no campus within miles. It’s a huge (business) success.., one of the cities biggest industry.
The cost. It’s all international. And Scottish children in poverty .., thy stopped going to university, even if they get a capped free place, the rents are only affordable to wealthy students.., they have to go and work instead.
Not the most ‘guardian’ ethos when you break it down is it .., it is like their agenda dwarfed the facts and evidence - worst attainment in the UK .., and they want MORE foreign students.
Wow - I think they’d ideally like indigenous children sweeping chimneys!! .., that’s some expression of metropolitan privilege right there.
International students are great. But when you milk them like a cash cow, at the expense of educating people who are more likely to add value economically, long term, and to do so as a priority, it fails everyone.
It’s not xenophobic to want your best resources, to go to those people, most in need, who will stay and add most value to your economy.
I’m an Erasmus student. Foreign exchange is amazing, we should always have lots of international students, but the balance changed when it became about money alone. And we do have balance wrong, and we are suffering for that, especially children in poverty.
Shocking to deny a generation education, because stopping people with no basic language skills, who won’t get any benefit, but have deep pockets, might be considered xenophobic.
We really need to get over the virtue signalling, social status craving hysteria and develop policies that get outcomes.
The self loathing really doesn’t help.
Nobody at the Guardian will struggle to pay for places - it’s always children in poverty, from the UK, they’re happy to throw under the bus. Strange that. |  | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:51 - Feb 4 with 729 views | J2BLUE |
Some interesting replies, cheers.
Sadly don't have the time to reply right now. My employer is expecting me to work. Absolute liberty. |  |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 13:06 - Feb 4 with 643 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:46 - Feb 4 by DJR |
We're talking in this thread though about university students, who aren't necessarily or automatically people who will stay in the long term.
In terms of the debate of immigration, it's always struck me as wrong that university students are part of the equation.
I got to know someone well at university from the Gambia. For many years he has worked in New York at the UN, and no doubt he looks favourably on Britain in view of his education here. |
That's an angle I don't spend much time thinking about it, but when I look back on the work I used to do overseas a lot of people I met were UK educated. It probably opened doors tbh. There's a soft power there in addition to education being one of our better exports reputationally and financially. |  |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:02 - Feb 4 with 604 views | jayessess |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:48 - Feb 4 by darkhorse28 |
You think our universities should exist to educate the world?
Maybe. Not sure it works when it excludes indigenous people - if they didn’t self loath so much I’m sure the guardian could muster an ‘indigenous population priced out of education headline’ skin colour and religion dependent of course.
In Scotland I’ve rented a property to international students on and off for many years. They pay a fortune to be here …, university places are ‘free’ but capped, and so universities flood their places with those that pay the most, international students.
The consequence. Attainment for children from poor backgrounds is the worst in the UK …, in the only place.., where there is free access.., let that sink in.
And that’s 100% a product of international students paying more, and universities being run as businesses.
It’s weird.
It’s like the guardian just hate themselves, in any other country, the story would be how local people, especially in poverty, are denied access to education, because they have less money…, my Chinese students can afford Edinburgh rents, local students really can’t.
Really weird.
We shouldn’t run universities as businesses to expand and educate the world, especially when that resource leaves the UK and doesn’t add value and denies local people that opportunity.
I guess it starts by charging the same fees, and stopping the incentive to prioritise foreign students above others. And capping places not for local student but for foreign students. The number I’ve met that really can’t speak English very well at all, but can afford the fees, it’s not very kind is it, to take their money, and not educate. At the expense of local students, craving opportunity.
We have given priority to those that pay the most, and the guardian thinking that’s a good thing, shows their ignorance, and hypocrisy.
I’m sure they sat down with an agenda around xenophobia and worked backwards, but they’ve got this very wrong, we’ve prioritised international students for a very long time, to make as much money as we could and expand those universities.
Where I live in Edinburgh there now thousands of homes for students.., and no campus within miles. It’s a huge (business) success.., one of the cities biggest industry.
The cost. It’s all international. And Scottish children in poverty .., thy stopped going to university, even if they get a capped free place, the rents are only affordable to wealthy students.., they have to go and work instead.
Not the most ‘guardian’ ethos when you break it down is it .., it is like their agenda dwarfed the facts and evidence - worst attainment in the UK .., and they want MORE foreign students.
Wow - I think they’d ideally like indigenous children sweeping chimneys!! .., that’s some expression of metropolitan privilege right there.
International students are great. But when you milk them like a cash cow, at the expense of educating people who are more likely to add value economically, long term, and to do so as a priority, it fails everyone.
It’s not xenophobic to want your best resources, to go to those people, most in need, who will stay and add most value to your economy.
I’m an Erasmus student. Foreign exchange is amazing, we should always have lots of international students, but the balance changed when it became about money alone. And we do have balance wrong, and we are suffering for that, especially children in poverty.
Shocking to deny a generation education, because stopping people with no basic language skills, who won’t get any benefit, but have deep pockets, might be considered xenophobic.
We really need to get over the virtue signalling, social status craving hysteria and develop policies that get outcomes.
The self loathing really doesn’t help.
Nobody at the Guardian will struggle to pay for places - it’s always children in poverty, from the UK, they’re happy to throw under the bus. Strange that. |
UK students aren't displaced by international students, they're subsidised by them. If you're a prospective student from a working-class background, your likeliest experience of the decline in international students is not that suddenly places open up on a course you couldn't previously get on to, it'll be that the course you wanted to do or the institution you wanted to study at has now been shut down.
It is peculiar. The whole fees revolution was supposedly all about treating education as a service for sale to the individual, rather than as a collective investment by society. Yet for some reason it's now also bad if universities become good at selling their services and generate huge revenue from what is effectively an export. |  |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:11 - Feb 4 with 583 views | Steve_M |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:19 - Feb 4 by DanTheMan |
Would be ideal if we could have a sensible debate on it. The issue is, people usually want lower taxes, less immigration etc.
Basically a whole bunch of policies which when put together would cripple the country. |
Yes, reducing everything to soundbites that play well in focus groups is not a recipe for sensible government.
It's where skilled politicians try to take the public with them, Blair could do it, pre-Iraq anyway, perhaps Brown and Cameron a bit but less universally. Since then, not so much from anyone in government.
All of the above is aided by a media ecosystem that favours the rise of big name political correspondents who favour passing on stories of gossip and intrigue over analysis. None of which serves the wider public or the country. |  |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:13 - Feb 4 with 580 views | Steve_M |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:48 - Feb 4 by darkhorse28 |
You think our universities should exist to educate the world?
Maybe. Not sure it works when it excludes indigenous people - if they didn’t self loath so much I’m sure the guardian could muster an ‘indigenous population priced out of education headline’ skin colour and religion dependent of course.
In Scotland I’ve rented a property to international students on and off for many years. They pay a fortune to be here …, university places are ‘free’ but capped, and so universities flood their places with those that pay the most, international students.
The consequence. Attainment for children from poor backgrounds is the worst in the UK …, in the only place.., where there is free access.., let that sink in.
And that’s 100% a product of international students paying more, and universities being run as businesses.
It’s weird.
It’s like the guardian just hate themselves, in any other country, the story would be how local people, especially in poverty, are denied access to education, because they have less money…, my Chinese students can afford Edinburgh rents, local students really can’t.
Really weird.
We shouldn’t run universities as businesses to expand and educate the world, especially when that resource leaves the UK and doesn’t add value and denies local people that opportunity.
I guess it starts by charging the same fees, and stopping the incentive to prioritise foreign students above others. And capping places not for local student but for foreign students. The number I’ve met that really can’t speak English very well at all, but can afford the fees, it’s not very kind is it, to take their money, and not educate. At the expense of local students, craving opportunity.
We have given priority to those that pay the most, and the guardian thinking that’s a good thing, shows their ignorance, and hypocrisy.
I’m sure they sat down with an agenda around xenophobia and worked backwards, but they’ve got this very wrong, we’ve prioritised international students for a very long time, to make as much money as we could and expand those universities.
Where I live in Edinburgh there now thousands of homes for students.., and no campus within miles. It’s a huge (business) success.., one of the cities biggest industry.
The cost. It’s all international. And Scottish children in poverty .., thy stopped going to university, even if they get a capped free place, the rents are only affordable to wealthy students.., they have to go and work instead.
Not the most ‘guardian’ ethos when you break it down is it .., it is like their agenda dwarfed the facts and evidence - worst attainment in the UK .., and they want MORE foreign students.
Wow - I think they’d ideally like indigenous children sweeping chimneys!! .., that’s some expression of metropolitan privilege right there.
International students are great. But when you milk them like a cash cow, at the expense of educating people who are more likely to add value economically, long term, and to do so as a priority, it fails everyone.
It’s not xenophobic to want your best resources, to go to those people, most in need, who will stay and add most value to your economy.
I’m an Erasmus student. Foreign exchange is amazing, we should always have lots of international students, but the balance changed when it became about money alone. And we do have balance wrong, and we are suffering for that, especially children in poverty.
Shocking to deny a generation education, because stopping people with no basic language skills, who won’t get any benefit, but have deep pockets, might be considered xenophobic.
We really need to get over the virtue signalling, social status craving hysteria and develop policies that get outcomes.
The self loathing really doesn’t help.
Nobody at the Guardian will struggle to pay for places - it’s always children in poverty, from the UK, they’re happy to throw under the bus. Strange that. |
Glad to see it's not just football you can apply your thoughtful and forensic analysis too. | |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:17 - Feb 4 with 569 views | thebooks |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 10:47 - Feb 4 by Swansea_Blue |
Tell me about it. I lost one job thanks to Brexit, then my next became partly unsustainable thanks to Brexit and then fully unsustainable thanks to the punitive immigration policies. It’s all linked; all driven by racist and xenophobic sentiment. Thousands of jobs have gone across the sector. A lot you won’t read about because they’re fixed term roles that won’t be replaced, so they don’t hit the redundancy figures. But they’re jobs lost nonetheless.
The university sector is fked. Now the genius idea is that instead of taking international students, we should outsource one of our best exports and build campuses overseas. Fine if you’re a massive university that can afford large, long-term capital projects while the sector struggles in the UK. Even then, the wealth generated by universities and money spent in the local economy will benefit the overseas countries.
It’s madness. All because the Tories and now Labour are more scared of the racist vote than they are interested in improving opportunities and wealth.
And on top of that, Labour have just decided to make life more difficult for lower paid graduates by ramping up their loan repayment costs. |
Aye, we’re restructuring at the moment, just gone through a voluntary redundancy scheme. They’re trying to keep the compulsory redundancy figures down by forcing staff out (by, like you say, not renewing the 12 month contracts, which are rife in the sector anyway, mandating back to office for professional services, extending the restructure etc.)
Overseas campuses are mainly a branding exercise, I think.
Universities is one thing the UK does really well. Austerity and racism will do for them. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:24 - Feb 4 with 555 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:17 - Feb 4 by thebooks |
Aye, we’re restructuring at the moment, just gone through a voluntary redundancy scheme. They’re trying to keep the compulsory redundancy figures down by forcing staff out (by, like you say, not renewing the 12 month contracts, which are rife in the sector anyway, mandating back to office for professional services, extending the restructure etc.)
Overseas campuses are mainly a branding exercise, I think.
Universities is one thing the UK does really well. Austerity and racism will do for them. |
I hope you come out of the other side of that in a good place. Voluntary was pushed hard at our place and probably is the best way, but people still feel pressurised going through it in the background. It just takes up so much work and mental bandwidth doesn't it. Adjusting and trying to keep morale up was always a challenge.
I've heard of loads of unis going through the same process over the last couple of years. It feels like only a matter of time before one of the large ones goes bust and maybe that's the wakeup call needed. | |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:29 - Feb 4 with 543 views | nrb1985 |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:19 - Feb 4 by DanTheMan |
Would be ideal if we could have a sensible debate on it. The issue is, people usually want lower taxes, less immigration etc.
Basically a whole bunch of policies which when put together would cripple the country. |
This and this again.
The below is stolen from a recent JP Morgan note I received re political noise - describes what you've summed up perfectly and expands it to other areas.
Unfortunately, cnts like Farage make it impossible to have sensible discussions on such topics as long as they maintain there's a whole heap of easy solutions - and while his followers remain gullible enough to believe him.
Structurally Higher Political Noise:
The first point to make is that we are going to have to get used to this. We are in a world of structurally higher political noise that will extend beyond the US midterms, beyond Trump’s presidency, and beyond US borders.
The reason is because the electorate is requesting economically inconsistent policies. In general, voters want:
- Goods and services to be made at home, higher real wages for low earners AND lower consumer prices;
- More government spending, lower taxes AND lower interest rates;
- Less migration AND a growing economy to support an ageing population;
- Lower house prices for those seeking to get on the property ladder AND higher house prices to support the wealth of current homeowners;
- Climate change addressed by changing the source and use of energy AND yet no spending, costs or disruption required for the change.
The list goes on. These are problems that face all western economies and many emerging economies also.
Balancing these conflicting demands is a nightmare for sensible politicians, since the issues raised provide a fertile ground for populists, who will try to argue that there are easy options and no trade-offs to be acknowledged, particularly on the campaign trail while trying to gain office. | | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:31 - Feb 4 with 543 views | thebooks |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:24 - Feb 4 by Swansea_Blue |
I hope you come out of the other side of that in a good place. Voluntary was pushed hard at our place and probably is the best way, but people still feel pressurised going through it in the background. It just takes up so much work and mental bandwidth doesn't it. Adjusting and trying to keep morale up was always a challenge.
I've heard of loads of unis going through the same process over the last couple of years. It feels like only a matter of time before one of the large ones goes bust and maybe that's the wakeup call needed. |
Thanks :-) It’s stressful, and work grinds to a halt — partly because of the demotivation, but also because you just cannot plan anything when you don’t know if roles will exist in a couple of months.
Voluntary got quite a few applicants, but mainly near-retirement anyway. The offer was based on length of service, so I wouldn’t have got enough
Also typically of HE, the number of £100,000+ salaries has increased over the last couple of years. It’s obscene.
UEA are struggling, and like the OP says Essex closed its Southend campus. What a waste of a fantastic resource. | | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:53 - Feb 4 with 517 views | DanTheMan |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:29 - Feb 4 by nrb1985 |
This and this again.
The below is stolen from a recent JP Morgan note I received re political noise - describes what you've summed up perfectly and expands it to other areas.
Unfortunately, cnts like Farage make it impossible to have sensible discussions on such topics as long as they maintain there's a whole heap of easy solutions - and while his followers remain gullible enough to believe him.
Structurally Higher Political Noise:
The first point to make is that we are going to have to get used to this. We are in a world of structurally higher political noise that will extend beyond the US midterms, beyond Trump’s presidency, and beyond US borders.
The reason is because the electorate is requesting economically inconsistent policies. In general, voters want:
- Goods and services to be made at home, higher real wages for low earners AND lower consumer prices;
- More government spending, lower taxes AND lower interest rates;
- Less migration AND a growing economy to support an ageing population;
- Lower house prices for those seeking to get on the property ladder AND higher house prices to support the wealth of current homeowners;
- Climate change addressed by changing the source and use of energy AND yet no spending, costs or disruption required for the change.
The list goes on. These are problems that face all western economies and many emerging economies also.
Balancing these conflicting demands is a nightmare for sensible politicians, since the issues raised provide a fertile ground for populists, who will try to argue that there are easy options and no trade-offs to be acknowledged, particularly on the campaign trail while trying to gain office. |
100% agree. I don't really know what the answer is.
People just don't like the idea of there having to be trade offs. |  |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 15:05 - Feb 4 with 504 views | CoachRob |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:53 - Feb 4 by DanTheMan |
100% agree. I don't really know what the answer is.
People just don't like the idea of there having to be trade offs. |
William Nordhaus believes the optimal trade-off is for us to accept 3.5C of global warming and he won the top prize in economics for it. 3.5C of warming gets us towards the central estimate for Amoc shutdown and the loss of farming in the UK. Trade-offs can be a useful concept but only in the hands of actual experts. |  | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 15:08 - Feb 4 with 501 views | Sarge |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:01 - Feb 4 by DanTheMan |
My wife will never pay it off unless she starts earning in the top 10-5%. It's a dreadful thing that is the worst of both a tax and a loan.
It's something silly like at the moment you have to be earning around £50k to even start paying off the interest.
And then if you are a higher paid tax payer, you pay an extra 9% tax effectively, for basically the full 30 years which is the majority of your working life.
And of course the people who don't have to pay this are those with very well off parents who can afford to fund the university places so you end up with a perverse situation where those lucky people don't end up paying any of what is effectively a tax.
Whole thing is a scam. [Post edited 4 Feb 11:16]
|
Higher rate tax payer, plan 2 holder here. The interest rate is a joke, largely because it starts accumulating interest from the moment you take it out even though you have no hope of even starting to repay it for at least 4 years. I now owe more than double I did when it started. I earn enough to pay back more than just the interest but I'll never pay it off.
I regret doing a degree in this country. The quality of teaching is nowhere near the price paid. I wish I'd gone to a Dutch uni when I had the chance.
This country also doesn't reward success or ambition, there's absolutely nothing to compel me to earn more and more as I get shafted in every possible direction and lose thousands to these loans, other taxes, NI, and now the disincentivised pensions.
Thank you David Cameron, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and Rachel Reeves for your masterclasses in how to ruin a country and its people. | | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 15:09 - Feb 4 with 495 views | DanTheMan |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 15:05 - Feb 4 by CoachRob |
William Nordhaus believes the optimal trade-off is for us to accept 3.5C of global warming and he won the top prize in economics for it. 3.5C of warming gets us towards the central estimate for Amoc shutdown and the loss of farming in the UK. Trade-offs can be a useful concept but only in the hands of actual experts. |
Think I'd rather just pay more tax to pay for energy infrastructure! | |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 15:24 - Feb 4 with 471 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:53 - Feb 4 by DanTheMan |
100% agree. I don't really know what the answer is.
People just don't like the idea of there having to be trade offs. |
It needs the sensible politicians to be brave and make radical/hard decisions, implement them and demonstrate that they work. Something I think the current government struggles with because they don't really have strong principles or beliefs, so don't have many policies they are willing to stake their career on to force through.
Saw it in central London with the rollout of LTNs - a no brainer from almost every policy angle but opposed by a very vocal populist sentiment. The politicians in the borough I worked in really believed in it, stuck to their guns and continued the rollout despite the noise and stormed the next local elections with the Greens in second place in a vote the LTN campaigners had framed as a referendum on them. The politicians in the borough where I lived (very New Labour types) wavered, did a half arsed job of implementing them and lost the next set of local elections (which were similarly framed by their opposition).
Another (transport-related) example: Councils are allowed to introduce workplace parking levies (charging any companies that have parking spaces for staff a levy to fund public/sustainable transport schemes). It's a great idea but councils have generally been terrified to introduce them because of upsetting people. Only a single council in England has – Nottingham, which has largely used the money to fund the buildout of its tram network (which I think is something most people living in major urban areas would love to have, but as nrb says, often aren't willing to pay for it). |  | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 15:26 - Feb 4 with 467 views | DanTheMan |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 15:24 - Feb 4 by Clapham_Junction |
It needs the sensible politicians to be brave and make radical/hard decisions, implement them and demonstrate that they work. Something I think the current government struggles with because they don't really have strong principles or beliefs, so don't have many policies they are willing to stake their career on to force through.
Saw it in central London with the rollout of LTNs - a no brainer from almost every policy angle but opposed by a very vocal populist sentiment. The politicians in the borough I worked in really believed in it, stuck to their guns and continued the rollout despite the noise and stormed the next local elections with the Greens in second place in a vote the LTN campaigners had framed as a referendum on them. The politicians in the borough where I lived (very New Labour types) wavered, did a half arsed job of implementing them and lost the next set of local elections (which were similarly framed by their opposition).
Another (transport-related) example: Councils are allowed to introduce workplace parking levies (charging any companies that have parking spaces for staff a levy to fund public/sustainable transport schemes). It's a great idea but councils have generally been terrified to introduce them because of upsetting people. Only a single council in England has – Nottingham, which has largely used the money to fund the buildout of its tram network (which I think is something most people living in major urban areas would love to have, but as nrb says, often aren't willing to pay for it). |
As someone who uses that tram weekly, incredibly useful.
Did used to be closer to it and miss it greatly, but at least there are a few free park and rides for it. | |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 16:33 - Feb 4 with 412 views | nrb1985 |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 14:53 - Feb 4 by DanTheMan |
100% agree. I don't really know what the answer is.
People just don't like the idea of there having to be trade offs. |
I made the point recently on that AI thread we had but I think these issues are completely unsolvable until they are taken out of the hands of politicians who have to think in 4/5 year election cycles.
These are enormous structural issues facing us all and it requires long term strategic thinking independent of political bias.
Something a bit more like the Chinese have with their plenum. And no I’m not suggesting I’d like us to be more like China. | | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 17:38 - Feb 4 with 393 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 15:08 - Feb 4 by Sarge |
Higher rate tax payer, plan 2 holder here. The interest rate is a joke, largely because it starts accumulating interest from the moment you take it out even though you have no hope of even starting to repay it for at least 4 years. I now owe more than double I did when it started. I earn enough to pay back more than just the interest but I'll never pay it off.
I regret doing a degree in this country. The quality of teaching is nowhere near the price paid. I wish I'd gone to a Dutch uni when I had the chance.
This country also doesn't reward success or ambition, there's absolutely nothing to compel me to earn more and more as I get shafted in every possible direction and lose thousands to these loans, other taxes, NI, and now the disincentivised pensions.
Thank you David Cameron, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and Rachel Reeves for your masterclasses in how to ruin a country and its people. |
The only trouble is that fees would cost double in the Netherlands and generally they’re not rated as high as UK universities. Quality is variable even with institution or departments though, granted. And had you stayed you’d have had a 49% higher tax rate.
Unfortunately, nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes. As some fella said once. | |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 18:10 - Feb 4 with 369 views | ZapatasMoustache |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:01 - Feb 4 by brazil1982 |
Universities have planned for too enthusiastically on numbers from China, and been devastated by the falling numbers. The cost of relocating and living in the UK has risen sharply for overseas students. Most postgraduate taught students do not bring family with them, it's the costs of the UK and the China market that has hit. |
Not my experience - Chinese numbers are as high as ever. It's EU students at masters level where we have seen a catastrophic drop, and that's down to a combination of Brexit and the slightly softer version of the 'hostile environment' that has been applied to students (shorter visas etc). |  | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 18:29 - Feb 4 with 339 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 10:59 - Feb 4 by J2BLUE |
Just asking the question...should governments ignore the population on things like immigration? I am asking because I often see things like this about the racist vote etc without any acknowledgement that, right or wrongly, poll after poll shows a majority of the country want immigration reduced.
Again, not getting into whether it is right or wrong. Just curious whether you think the government should ignore the current sentiment? |
Governments should take a lead where they believe it is in the national interest to do so. That requires vision and balls. | | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 18:34 - Feb 4 with 334 views | Kievthegreat |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 11:46 - Feb 4 by lowhouseblue |
does that mean that you can pursue policies without any electoral mandate? policies that are rejected by a large majority in every poll, and which the governing party promises to reverse at elections and then ignores when in power? it's an interesting take. |
It doesn't mean disregard opinion polls, but it does mean that public opinion shouldn't be the only factor. If it was, they'd be no tough choices to make because we'd just pick the popular options of cut taxes, raise government spending and bankrupt the country in a fortnight.
Also if we are discussing mandates, how does one gauge that when the party in power does so by winning 30% of the vote? They weren't wanted by 70% of voters from the off. Also, if we do have a government with a mandate, what happens when world events change? No one knows during an election what will happen during the term of that government. |  | | |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 18:50 - Feb 4 with 303 views | lowhouseblue |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 18:29 - Feb 4 by Freddies_Ears |
Governments should take a lead where they believe it is in the national interest to do so. That requires vision and balls. |
that attitude is part of the reason why reform now leads the polls. the electorate have time and time again expressed opposition to uncontrolled migration. successive governments promised policies to reduce it, and then in office did the exact opposite. they had no democratic mandate for that and they simply ignored the very clear view of a majority of the electorate. it has contributed to a huge erosion of trust in politics and has caused a section of the electorate to listen to gits like farage. a widening divide between those who wield political power and much of the electorate is incredibly unhealthy. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 19:01 - Feb 4 with 292 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 18:50 - Feb 4 by lowhouseblue |
that attitude is part of the reason why reform now leads the polls. the electorate have time and time again expressed opposition to uncontrolled migration. successive governments promised policies to reduce it, and then in office did the exact opposite. they had no democratic mandate for that and they simply ignored the very clear view of a majority of the electorate. it has contributed to a huge erosion of trust in politics and has caused a section of the electorate to listen to gits like farage. a widening divide between those who wield political power and much of the electorate is incredibly unhealthy. |
The current Labour party has been doing quite a good job so far on controlling and reducing migration into the UK. |  |
| |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 19:04 - Feb 4 with 275 views | lowhouseblue |
| Making the UK less attractive to international students has consequences on 19:01 - Feb 4 by Ewan_Oozami |
The current Labour party has been doing quite a good job so far on controlling and reducing migration into the UK. |
yes indeed, and if it can also deal with the cost of living and get the nhs back on its feet then it's the best chance we have stopping farage. it was successive tory governments who made promises they never intended to keep. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
