| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport 17:51 - Mar 17 with 1887 views | redrickstuhaart |
I'm pottering round Amsterdam for a couple of days. Tram system easy cheap and excellent. Not much traffic. Thousands of bikes.
It's time we stopped having the attitude that every move towards reducing traffic is an assault on our freedoms. This is a city which is vastly more pleasant to get around and to generally be in than most UK cities. The people are fitter and healthier. They cycle everywhere and aren't breathing smog or suffering the stress of endless jams.
Time for big steps forward. Won't happen though.... |  |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 18:48 - Mar 17 with 1687 views | Swansea_Blue |
It’s starting to happen in places, but there are a whole load of reasons while we’ll not be able to replicate what they can manage in many European cities. Some of it is down to geography and the narrow streets of many old historic places. Some down to an unwillingness to fund, and some because there’s a vocal element on the right that lose their shizzle whenever sensible ideas are put forward (see 15 minute cities for example). [Post edited 17 Mar 18:49]
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 18:56 - Mar 17 with 1646 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 18:48 - Mar 17 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s starting to happen in places, but there are a whole load of reasons while we’ll not be able to replicate what they can manage in many European cities. Some of it is down to geography and the narrow streets of many old historic places. Some down to an unwillingness to fund, and some because there’s a vocal element on the right that lose their shizzle whenever sensible ideas are put forward (see 15 minute cities for example). [Post edited 17 Mar 18:49]
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All true. There is also the cultural factor in local authorities who rarely seem to do these things well, but rather in a way that makes or saves money . | |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 19:52 - Mar 17 with 1561 views | Mark |
I agree, and encourage anyone to get a bike.
There is far too much traffic on the roads. I am hoping driverless buses (free trial in Cambridge) and driverless taxis (which they now have in America) will mean will make travel clean, cheap and easy so people don't need to all own a car each. Just click on an app instead and the car arrives at your door! [Post edited 17 Mar 19:53]
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 19:56 - Mar 17 with 1539 views | vapour_trail |
London is piss easy and pretty comfortable to get around on a bike free of charge these days. |  |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 22:14 - Mar 17 with 1433 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 18:48 - Mar 17 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s starting to happen in places, but there are a whole load of reasons while we’ll not be able to replicate what they can manage in many European cities. Some of it is down to geography and the narrow streets of many old historic places. Some down to an unwillingness to fund, and some because there’s a vocal element on the right that lose their shizzle whenever sensible ideas are put forward (see 15 minute cities for example). [Post edited 17 Mar 18:49]
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Ah yes, those vast, broad boulevards of Amsterdam...
As you say, we are very good at excuses. | | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 22:42 - Mar 17 with 1370 views | noggin |
UK. Pop into Greggs for a pastie, if you're lucky, only your seat and wheels get stolen.
Seriously though, I just think people in Scandinavia, The Netherlands and Germany have a completely different mindset, in general. Nobody is in a rush over here. It always amazes me, in London, watching people sprinting to get on a train, when there'll be another one along in a couple of minutes. How stressed must they be, doing that day in, day out? |  |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 00:07 - Mar 18 with 1285 views | stonojnr |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 18:56 - Mar 17 by redrickstuhaart |
All true. There is also the cultural factor in local authorities who rarely seem to do these things well, but rather in a way that makes or saves money . |
sorry but thats not ALL true at all. the geography of Amsterdam or Holland isnt much dissimilar to large parts of East Anglian region in UK, in fact its very closely related as we were part of the same land mass and even shared a coastline with them at some point in the past.
as for the myth about the UKs narrow roads...
https://aseasyasridingabike.wo
the fact is the Dutch made a choice in the 1970s,through the Stop de Kindermoord protests.
If you compare the Dutch roads in cities and towns in the 70s, theyre identical to what we had, and still have, roads and routes designed entirely around motor vehicles.
But they didnt cut buildings in half to widen the roads for their cycling paths, like we actually did in Ipswich nearly 100 years ago, Tavern Street is only as wide as it is today because we sawed through all the ancient old buildings that were there and demolished the frontages, even Croydons, all just to make it wider for increased traffic.
no they went actually we'll take away the space from cars instead, and use that space to make cycling and walking better, and the result is theyve got some of the best cycling and walking infrastructure, and they dont perpetually moan about being stuck in traffic jams or demanding bypasses whilst sat in cars driving less than 1mile to their destinations. | | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 00:13 - Mar 18 with 1286 views | Churchman |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 22:42 - Mar 17 by noggin |
UK. Pop into Greggs for a pastie, if you're lucky, only your seat and wheels get stolen.
Seriously though, I just think people in Scandinavia, The Netherlands and Germany have a completely different mindset, in general. Nobody is in a rush over here. It always amazes me, in London, watching people sprinting to get on a train, when there'll be another one along in a couple of minutes. How stressed must they be, doing that day in, day out? |
There’s a rhythm to working in central London. You get used to it. I worked in Whitehall for 13 straight years. Immediately before that, 3 years on the south bank Southwark, all over south London/SE before that. Most people in the last 20 odd years of my working there wouldn’t dream of driving. Those days were long gone.
The transport network in and out is ok, depending on where you live. It’s better than it was in the 80s, peaked at the time of the Olympics and has slipped back. The tube network is brilliant and the central part is walkable which was always my preference. Never bothered with stinky buses much. Tried the Night Bus once. Now there was an experience from hell.
The downside is cost. Transport in London is phenomenally expensive. As a key driver of the economy, London transport should be cheaper. Subsidised. The other downside is how much dirtier it’s got in recent years. Where Khan spends the money raked in off fines and ULEZ, goodness only knows.
But London is London. Vibrant, slightly chaotic, ugly, expensive, beautiful but always interesting. The most amazing city in the world. I’m glad I don’t have to commute any more (not sure how I did it really, but as an avid reader I could always while away train and waiting time). But I’m glad I did.
Absolutely love Amsterdam btw. The central part anyway. It’s a must see place. There are some lovely cities in Europe, but that’s certainly one of the best. Loads to do too. |  | | |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 00:14 - Mar 18 with 1267 views | stonojnr |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 19:52 - Mar 17 by Mark |
I agree, and encourage anyone to get a bike.
There is far too much traffic on the roads. I am hoping driverless buses (free trial in Cambridge) and driverless taxis (which they now have in America) will mean will make travel clean, cheap and easy so people don't need to all own a car each. Just click on an app instead and the car arrives at your door! [Post edited 17 Mar 19:53]
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which still doesnt really solve the traffic problem if everyone was being driven around in driveless cars, you still have the same amount of cars on the road, just not being driven by irrational angry morons most of the time.
you need modal shift, swapping the car for a bus, or to walk or to cycle, to more efficient, and healthier forms of transport. | | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 06:28 - Mar 18 with 1163 views | iamatractorboy |
The attitude is summed up by what happened to the Bury Road park and ride in Ipswich. Didn't get enough people using it (I assume), so it closed down. And then people continue to moan about the roads in town and the traffic and how expensive it is to park. Because the park and ride was slightly less convenient, having to wait a whole 10 minutes or whatever it was for the next bus. | | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 08:55 - Mar 18 with 1004 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
It hasn’t happened by accident though. They have dedicated cycle lanes everywhere, surfaces that aren’t littered with potholes, priority over traffic. Our Councils are a waste of space, I stopped cycling due to the dangerous state of our local roads, if you hit a pothole with traffic behind you it isn’t going to end well. | | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 09:02 - Mar 18 with 990 views | Steve_M |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 00:13 - Mar 18 by Churchman |
There’s a rhythm to working in central London. You get used to it. I worked in Whitehall for 13 straight years. Immediately before that, 3 years on the south bank Southwark, all over south London/SE before that. Most people in the last 20 odd years of my working there wouldn’t dream of driving. Those days were long gone.
The transport network in and out is ok, depending on where you live. It’s better than it was in the 80s, peaked at the time of the Olympics and has slipped back. The tube network is brilliant and the central part is walkable which was always my preference. Never bothered with stinky buses much. Tried the Night Bus once. Now there was an experience from hell.
The downside is cost. Transport in London is phenomenally expensive. As a key driver of the economy, London transport should be cheaper. Subsidised. The other downside is how much dirtier it’s got in recent years. Where Khan spends the money raked in off fines and ULEZ, goodness only knows.
But London is London. Vibrant, slightly chaotic, ugly, expensive, beautiful but always interesting. The most amazing city in the world. I’m glad I don’t have to commute any more (not sure how I did it really, but as an avid reader I could always while away train and waiting time). But I’m glad I did.
Absolutely love Amsterdam btw. The central part anyway. It’s a must see place. There are some lovely cities in Europe, but that’s certainly one of the best. Loads to do too. |
"As a key driver of the economy, London transport should be cheaper. Subsidised. The other downside is how much dirtier it’s got in recent years. Where Khan spends the money raked in off fines and ULEZ, goodness only knows."
That money is spent on replacing the payment from central government that Osborne and Johnson decided to remove. Add the big reduction in demand caused by covid, albeit one that is largely over at least four days a week now, and TFL has lost large amounts of revenue over the last decade.
Also, falling asleep on a nightbus after too many beers is surely a rite of a passage for a 20-something working in London. Although I did end up in Penge once.... |  |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 09:31 - Mar 18 with 931 views | wischip |
Most of the people I see cycling in London are aged 30+, they understand the need to exercise as they were probably cycling in their youth before there were electric vehicles. Most of the people I see whizzing around on electric bikes, e-scooters are teenagers and twentysomethings. Whilst they think they are cool and it's all fun their lack of exercise in youth is setting themselves up for health problems further down the line. [Post edited 18 Mar 9:31]
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 10:21 - Mar 18 with 847 views | Churchman |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 09:02 - Mar 18 by Steve_M |
"As a key driver of the economy, London transport should be cheaper. Subsidised. The other downside is how much dirtier it’s got in recent years. Where Khan spends the money raked in off fines and ULEZ, goodness only knows."
That money is spent on replacing the payment from central government that Osborne and Johnson decided to remove. Add the big reduction in demand caused by covid, albeit one that is largely over at least four days a week now, and TFL has lost large amounts of revenue over the last decade.
Also, falling asleep on a nightbus after too many beers is surely a rite of a passage for a 20-something working in London. Although I did end up in Penge once.... |
Yep, the Night Bus certainly was a beefed up 20 something right of passage. The N1 from Trafalgar Square. A night never forgotten. | | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 14:50 - Mar 18 with 705 views | keighleyblue |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 18:56 - Mar 17 by redrickstuhaart |
All true. There is also the cultural factor in local authorities who rarely seem to do these things well, but rather in a way that makes or saves money . |
The Rotten Boroughs section in Private Eye highlights many of these 'cultural factors' (aka corruption) that dictates regional authority decision making. |  | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 15:39 - Mar 18 with 686 views | keighleyblue |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 09:02 - Mar 18 by Steve_M |
"As a key driver of the economy, London transport should be cheaper. Subsidised. The other downside is how much dirtier it’s got in recent years. Where Khan spends the money raked in off fines and ULEZ, goodness only knows."
That money is spent on replacing the payment from central government that Osborne and Johnson decided to remove. Add the big reduction in demand caused by covid, albeit one that is largely over at least four days a week now, and TFL has lost large amounts of revenue over the last decade.
Also, falling asleep on a nightbus after too many beers is surely a rite of a passage for a 20-something working in London. Although I did end up in Penge once.... |
Haha I used to live near Penge. Fond memories of getting the N2 party bus from Trafalgar Square back home to Crystal Palace after a skinful most weekends in my 20s, mine was the final stop on the route - thank goodness! [Post edited 18 Mar 15:43]
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 15:48 - Mar 18 with 661 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 09:02 - Mar 18 by Steve_M |
"As a key driver of the economy, London transport should be cheaper. Subsidised. The other downside is how much dirtier it’s got in recent years. Where Khan spends the money raked in off fines and ULEZ, goodness only knows."
That money is spent on replacing the payment from central government that Osborne and Johnson decided to remove. Add the big reduction in demand caused by covid, albeit one that is largely over at least four days a week now, and TFL has lost large amounts of revenue over the last decade.
Also, falling asleep on a nightbus after too many beers is surely a rite of a passage for a 20-something working in London. Although I did end up in Penge once.... |
As with so many things, it seems a false economy not to spend and subsidise to make it all good.
The impact in journey times, health, tourism, mental state of the residents (and therefore productivity and health), pride on one's surroundings and the potential reduction in crime and vandalism that can bring etc etc | |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 15:48 - Mar 18 with 660 views | jontysnut |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 00:07 - Mar 18 by stonojnr |
sorry but thats not ALL true at all. the geography of Amsterdam or Holland isnt much dissimilar to large parts of East Anglian region in UK, in fact its very closely related as we were part of the same land mass and even shared a coastline with them at some point in the past.
as for the myth about the UKs narrow roads...
https://aseasyasridingabike.wo
the fact is the Dutch made a choice in the 1970s,through the Stop de Kindermoord protests.
If you compare the Dutch roads in cities and towns in the 70s, theyre identical to what we had, and still have, roads and routes designed entirely around motor vehicles.
But they didnt cut buildings in half to widen the roads for their cycling paths, like we actually did in Ipswich nearly 100 years ago, Tavern Street is only as wide as it is today because we sawed through all the ancient old buildings that were there and demolished the frontages, even Croydons, all just to make it wider for increased traffic.
no they went actually we'll take away the space from cars instead, and use that space to make cycling and walking better, and the result is theyve got some of the best cycling and walking infrastructure, and they dont perpetually moan about being stuck in traffic jams or demanding bypasses whilst sat in cars driving less than 1mile to their destinations. |
A friend was on an open top bus tour round Berlin. A bloke said 'I'm really impressed with all these wide open spaces and big roads'. The guide replied ' yes and for this we must thank your RAF'. |  | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 16:39 - Mar 18 with 604 views | MVBlue |
Been to Cambridge? |  |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 17:32 - Mar 18 with 545 views | Mark |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 00:13 - Mar 18 by Churchman |
There’s a rhythm to working in central London. You get used to it. I worked in Whitehall for 13 straight years. Immediately before that, 3 years on the south bank Southwark, all over south London/SE before that. Most people in the last 20 odd years of my working there wouldn’t dream of driving. Those days were long gone.
The transport network in and out is ok, depending on where you live. It’s better than it was in the 80s, peaked at the time of the Olympics and has slipped back. The tube network is brilliant and the central part is walkable which was always my preference. Never bothered with stinky buses much. Tried the Night Bus once. Now there was an experience from hell.
The downside is cost. Transport in London is phenomenally expensive. As a key driver of the economy, London transport should be cheaper. Subsidised. The other downside is how much dirtier it’s got in recent years. Where Khan spends the money raked in off fines and ULEZ, goodness only knows.
But London is London. Vibrant, slightly chaotic, ugly, expensive, beautiful but always interesting. The most amazing city in the world. I’m glad I don’t have to commute any more (not sure how I did it really, but as an avid reader I could always while away train and waiting time). But I’m glad I did.
Absolutely love Amsterdam btw. The central part anyway. It’s a must see place. There are some lovely cities in Europe, but that’s certainly one of the best. Loads to do too. |
Eurostar are selling tickets to Amsterdam for £39. Tempting for a city break.
https://www.eurostar.com/uk-en | | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 19:01 - Mar 18 with 465 views | DistantBlue |
I live in the Netherlands, not everything is perfect, there are traffic jams here too. But other things in the big transport scheme of things do work well. I’ve lived and worked here for more than thirty years and have never found it necessary to own a car. It’s always been bikes, buses, trains and trams. And when a car really is needed there is this, a well functioning virtually nationwide car hire scheme for online bookings for as little as thirty minutes.
https://mywheels.nl/en
Interestingly, I saw a similar (but much smaller!) scheme on Shetland last summer. |  | | |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 11:48 - Mar 19 with 280 views | Pinewoodblue |
Ipswich has a decent bus network but like everything else I’m sure it could be improved.
We could convert to electric buses, or turn the clock back to either trolley buses or trams. All would be expensive in the short term. |  |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 12:23 - Mar 19 with 214 views | belgablue |
Good article from a few years ago on Brussels. Still a long way to go but it's a very cyclable city these days. It can be done.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news |  |
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| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 12:52 - Mar 19 with 167 views | chicoazul |
| Walking cities and the UK attitude to transport on 00:07 - Mar 18 by stonojnr |
sorry but thats not ALL true at all. the geography of Amsterdam or Holland isnt much dissimilar to large parts of East Anglian region in UK, in fact its very closely related as we were part of the same land mass and even shared a coastline with them at some point in the past.
as for the myth about the UKs narrow roads...
https://aseasyasridingabike.wo
the fact is the Dutch made a choice in the 1970s,through the Stop de Kindermoord protests.
If you compare the Dutch roads in cities and towns in the 70s, theyre identical to what we had, and still have, roads and routes designed entirely around motor vehicles.
But they didnt cut buildings in half to widen the roads for their cycling paths, like we actually did in Ipswich nearly 100 years ago, Tavern Street is only as wide as it is today because we sawed through all the ancient old buildings that were there and demolished the frontages, even Croydons, all just to make it wider for increased traffic.
no they went actually we'll take away the space from cars instead, and use that space to make cycling and walking better, and the result is theyve got some of the best cycling and walking infrastructure, and they dont perpetually moan about being stuck in traffic jams or demanding bypasses whilst sat in cars driving less than 1mile to their destinations. |
They probably are sitting in traffic jams as there are more cars per capita in the Netherlands than the Uk |  |
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