| This Saints spying thing 11:51 - May 12 with 4485 views | bluefunk |
Looks like it’s a real headache for the EFL and the disciplinary commitee, Southampton have asked for more time, which is exactly what the authorities don’t have.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo
It won’t be the first time they’ve done this, maybe explains their successful rise up the table. Middlesbrough apparently want sporting sanctions rather than a fine, (but then they would wouldn’t they). |  | | |  |
| This Saints spying thing on 17:06 - May 12 with 651 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 16:51 - May 12 by SitfcB |
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I think the word 'could' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.
It's the big national story, there are a lot of column inches to be filled. I'm not sure this adds a great deal to everything that is already out there.
I think a points deduction is plausible, I just cant see any world where expulsion does not lead to clubs/ the EFL being sued left, right and centre. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 17:22 - May 12 with 601 views | WeWereZombies |
| This Saints spying thing on 16:51 - May 12 by SitfcB |
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I wonder if there is now a psychological advantage to Middlesborough, as in 'we didn't play at our best because we knew it could be in vain say Southampton' excuse ? |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 17:27 - May 12 with 581 views | Ryorry |
| This Saints spying thing on 17:22 - May 12 by WeWereZombies |
I wonder if there is now a psychological advantage to Middlesborough, as in 'we didn't play at our best because we knew it could be in vain say Southampton' excuse ? |
Was thinking along similar lines - that extra edge of adrenaline for the players which comes from injustice; their travelling fans singing louder; knowing that most neutrals are now rooting for them too. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 18:04 - May 12 with 541 views | Churchman |
| This Saints spying thing on 15:50 - May 12 by Bellevue_Blue |
I honestly do not think that is remotely plausible.
Think of the lawsuit if Saints won them and then they just gave it to Hull.
The English Football League itself generates roughly £190m–£200m per year in central revenue - https://www.efl.com/official-e
That roughly equates to what Saints would be losing through that ruling which has no precedent at all. They'd be suing the EFL for an entire year of lost earnings. [Post edited 12 May 15:51]
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Surely a precedent has to start somewhere. Why not here?
If Southampton are caught having planted a bloke in the bushes with a notepad and binoculars, on what basis could they sue?
From Friday’s Guardian article:
‘It is understood that Steve Gibson, Boro’s owner, will expect the south coast club to be punished severely. Under a rule introduced to deal specifically with spying in 2019, such cases are dealt with by independent disciplinary panels with the power to impose a wide range of punishments ranging from reprimands to fines, points deductions and, in extreme cases, expulsion from the competition.’
I’d say that a game worth potentially £200m is an extreme case. They either did it or they didn’t. If not and it was just some saddo with time on his hands, make public what Mr Snoopy Sadgit has to say including confirmation that no info was to be or ever has been passed to Southampton if he’s done it before.
Shouldn’t take long to clear up. It’s binary. He did or he didn’t, they knew about it or didn’t, hoped to profit from it or not.
Southampton are just playing for time to muddy the waters which tells me there is more to this than has been made public. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 19:12 - May 12 with 452 views | Pinewoodblue |
The current position is unprecedented in English football.
I suspect a severe sporting penalty isn’t out of the question. Could it be possible for EFL to declare the result of the game in Middlesbrough declared null & void and award a 3-0 win to Boro.
Southampton need to go all out and look for a 4-0 win. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 19:12 - May 12 with 453 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 16:51 - May 12 by SitfcB |
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Yeah, R5Live have just said all options are available to the EFL from a fine but more likely a points deduction or removal from POs. I think it needs to be removal from the POs and they’d still benefit hugely even with a points deduction next year. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 19:18 - May 12 with 429 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 18:04 - May 12 by Churchman |
Surely a precedent has to start somewhere. Why not here?
If Southampton are caught having planted a bloke in the bushes with a notepad and binoculars, on what basis could they sue?
From Friday’s Guardian article:
‘It is understood that Steve Gibson, Boro’s owner, will expect the south coast club to be punished severely. Under a rule introduced to deal specifically with spying in 2019, such cases are dealt with by independent disciplinary panels with the power to impose a wide range of punishments ranging from reprimands to fines, points deductions and, in extreme cases, expulsion from the competition.’
I’d say that a game worth potentially £200m is an extreme case. They either did it or they didn’t. If not and it was just some saddo with time on his hands, make public what Mr Snoopy Sadgit has to say including confirmation that no info was to be or ever has been passed to Southampton if he’s done it before.
Shouldn’t take long to clear up. It’s binary. He did or he didn’t, they knew about it or didn’t, hoped to profit from it or not.
Southampton are just playing for time to muddy the waters which tells me there is more to this than has been made public. |
Because if the EFL get it wrong, they risk a law suit that could borderline bankrupt the governing body.
And without any precedent, Southampton could legally argue a whole load of things that might create doubt in a court.
I agree it's binary in terms of cheating, but what is not binary is the level of advantage that they received and therefore the benefit they received.
For the EFL to throw them out and it be successfully upheld, you'd have to prove that the advantage Southampton received was so significant that they won the tie based on the information they received (The first leg would prove that is probably not the case) or if new information comes to light, that they did for a sustained period of time that it gave them a considerable advantage in the League.
If the EFL failed to prove that, then Southampton could question the punishment and attach the loss of earnings to that.
IMO the risk is far too large for the EFL without any existing precedent. If Southampton do go up, they'd be better off trying to impose a fine or points deduction so large that it essentially wipes out the benefit of going up. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 19:36 - May 12 with 391 views | armchaircritic59 |
A solution. Quick meeting between the boffins at the EFL and PL. Agree between them that a certain number of points will be docked at the start of next season whichever of the leagues Southampton are in and it will be made known as quickly as possible, certainly with a month to spare at the very least. This is all if proven guilty only of course. Even a serial killer gets a right to a trial!
By the way, love the Icon. The Godfather Of Soul. Well most of the JB's jumped ship and went over to George Clinton to help propel my favourite band of all time to legendary status. Parlliament/Funkadelic. What a music legacy between them all! And of course, P/F still going strong. |  | | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 19:48 - May 12 with 359 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 19:36 - May 12 by armchaircritic59 |
A solution. Quick meeting between the boffins at the EFL and PL. Agree between them that a certain number of points will be docked at the start of next season whichever of the leagues Southampton are in and it will be made known as quickly as possible, certainly with a month to spare at the very least. This is all if proven guilty only of course. Even a serial killer gets a right to a trial!
By the way, love the Icon. The Godfather Of Soul. Well most of the JB's jumped ship and went over to George Clinton to help propel my favourite band of all time to legendary status. Parlliament/Funkadelic. What a music legacy between them all! And of course, P/F still going strong. |
I’d go for a quick trial and try to get clarity asap on what it means for other teams. I don’t know why Southampton need an internal investigation. Just get their DoF, Manager and the analyst in question in the room with the disciplinary committee and grill them on what happened.
If you go down the route of a pre-determined points deduction without the other options available to the disciplinary panel, both Boro and Hill would have a good case against S’ton and the EFL I’d have thought?
We need to remember the guy was caught and he wasn’t there for his own entertainment. They were cheating. Who sent him or knew is secondary imo. He would have been there in his role representing the club. | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 19:50 - May 12 with 352 views | redrickstuhaart |
| This Saints spying thing on 19:36 - May 12 by armchaircritic59 |
A solution. Quick meeting between the boffins at the EFL and PL. Agree between them that a certain number of points will be docked at the start of next season whichever of the leagues Southampton are in and it will be made known as quickly as possible, certainly with a month to spare at the very least. This is all if proven guilty only of course. Even a serial killer gets a right to a trial!
By the way, love the Icon. The Godfather Of Soul. Well most of the JB's jumped ship and went over to George Clinton to help propel my favourite band of all time to legendary status. Parlliament/Funkadelic. What a music legacy between them all! And of course, P/F still going strong. |
Doesn't compensate the victim. | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 20:15 - May 12 with 320 views | bluefunk |
| This Saints spying thing on 19:36 - May 12 by armchaircritic59 |
A solution. Quick meeting between the boffins at the EFL and PL. Agree between them that a certain number of points will be docked at the start of next season whichever of the leagues Southampton are in and it will be made known as quickly as possible, certainly with a month to spare at the very least. This is all if proven guilty only of course. Even a serial killer gets a right to a trial!
By the way, love the Icon. The Godfather Of Soul. Well most of the JB's jumped ship and went over to George Clinton to help propel my favourite band of all time to legendary status. Parlliament/Funkadelic. What a music legacy between them all! And of course, P/F still going strong. |
The Funk, the whole Funk, nothing but the Funk…….
By the time of the Payback album ( the cover is my picture) Maceo Parker and Fred Wesley among others were back in the fold | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 20:16 - May 12 with 315 views | bluefunk |
| This Saints spying thing on 19:50 - May 12 by redrickstuhaart |
Doesn't compensate the victim. |
Victims are possibly the rest of the Championship if rumours are to be believed. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 20:22 - May 12 with 305 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I would say the obvious thing is to let the playoffs finish and then announce the findings after.
If they have won the play offs, the natural punishment (if found guilty) would be to award the final to the other team. It won't help Boro but that is frequently the nature of sanctions.
If they have not won, the natural punishment would be a points deduction to be applied next season. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 20:24 - May 12 with 298 views | redrickstuhaart |
| This Saints spying thing on 20:15 - May 12 by bluefunk |
The Funk, the whole Funk, nothing but the Funk…….
By the time of the Payback album ( the cover is my picture) Maceo Parker and Fred Wesley among others were back in the fold |
I'm a big fred fan. And jbs when jb keeps his gob shut. And the Mothership... | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 20:31 - May 12 with 273 views | bluefunk |
| This Saints spying thing on 20:24 - May 12 by redrickstuhaart |
I'm a big fred fan. And jbs when jb keeps his gob shut. And the Mothership... |
Fred was the musician of the band, classically trained, but made a trombone funky, which is quite a feat. His autobiography is excellent. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 20:35 - May 12 with 262 views | redrickstuhaart |
| This Saints spying thing on 20:31 - May 12 by bluefunk |
Fred was the musician of the band, classically trained, but made a trombone funky, which is quite a feat. His autobiography is excellent. |
Am seeking to expand into parliament and funkadelic more. Mothership is great. Picked up funkentechy vs, recently and found it a bit formulaic and tame. | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 20:50 - May 12 with 221 views | bluefunk |
| This Saints spying thing on 20:35 - May 12 by redrickstuhaart |
Am seeking to expand into parliament and funkadelic more. Mothership is great. Picked up funkentechy vs, recently and found it a bit formulaic and tame. |
For me George Clinton’s output is a bit mixed. I’ve gone more towards Sly, early Kool and the Gang and Commodores, Ohio Players etc | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 20:59 - May 12 with 198 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| This Saints spying thing on 19:18 - May 12 by Bellevue_Blue |
Because if the EFL get it wrong, they risk a law suit that could borderline bankrupt the governing body.
And without any precedent, Southampton could legally argue a whole load of things that might create doubt in a court.
I agree it's binary in terms of cheating, but what is not binary is the level of advantage that they received and therefore the benefit they received.
For the EFL to throw them out and it be successfully upheld, you'd have to prove that the advantage Southampton received was so significant that they won the tie based on the information they received (The first leg would prove that is probably not the case) or if new information comes to light, that they did for a sustained period of time that it gave them a considerable advantage in the League.
If the EFL failed to prove that, then Southampton could question the punishment and attach the loss of earnings to that.
IMO the risk is far too large for the EFL without any existing precedent. If Southampton do go up, they'd be better off trying to impose a fine or points deduction so large that it essentially wipes out the benefit of going up. |
” And without any precedent, Southampton could legally argue a whole load of things that might create doubt in a court.”
Except there is precedent - Canada in the Women’s World Cup last year. Points deduction and coach/manager suspended for a year. Hence my comments earlier in this thread. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 21:07 - May 12 with 179 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 20:59 - May 12 by SuffolkPunchFC |
” And without any precedent, Southampton could legally argue a whole load of things that might create doubt in a court.”
Except there is precedent - Canada in the Women’s World Cup last year. Points deduction and coach/manager suspended for a year. Hence my comments earlier in this thread. |
I was directly referring to kicking them out entirely. Bans/ points deductions obviously a much more realistic punishment given what you raised and the reporting over the last few days. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 21:11 - May 12 with 167 views | southnorfolkblue |
| This Saints spying thing on 21:07 - May 12 by Bellevue_Blue |
I was directly referring to kicking them out entirely. Bans/ points deductions obviously a much more realistic punishment given what you raised and the reporting over the last few days. |
I can only see a points deduction happening if they don’t get promoted because I doubt the Premier League would have any wish to get involved and potentially brought into any action Southampton might take in response to their punishment.
Big fine is the most likely outcome I reckon | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 21:40 - May 12 with 134 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| This Saints spying thing on 21:11 - May 12 by southnorfolkblue |
I can only see a points deduction happening if they don’t get promoted because I doubt the Premier League would have any wish to get involved and potentially brought into any action Southampton might take in response to their punishment.
Big fine is the most likely outcome I reckon |
There’s a quid pro quo consideration here that shouldn’t be overlooked. The PL have equally been stitched up by clubs relegated, and avoiding sanctions, so I don’t think the ‘recommendation’ would be ignored lightly.
On sanctions, suspension of senior coaching staff has to be a serious consideration. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 21:41 - May 12 with 131 views | itfctilidie |
A shambles that all can be solved very simply.
Southampton were caught cheating before the first leg. That first leg should be void and a automatic 3-0 win to Boro. This should have been done before tonights match. No need for extra time to be granted, they have admitted it, been caught
Then the extra time can be the summer to investigate any other instances - which Boro are saying they have been contacted by other clubs. Then dock 3 points for every other match they are found guilty for in the form of a points deduction next year. Also slap with a fine and on you go. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 21:48 - May 12 with 99 views | bluefunk |
| This Saints spying thing on 21:11 - May 12 by southnorfolkblue |
I can only see a points deduction happening if they don’t get promoted because I doubt the Premier League would have any wish to get involved and potentially brought into any action Southampton might take in response to their punishment.
Big fine is the most likely outcome I reckon |
Hasn’t there been ab agreement to carry ivermectin sanctions in the event of promotion or relegation, to avoid the situation Leicester exploited. | | | |
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