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They know they don't deserve to be there, excellent stuff here, especially from 33 minutes in with the Boro caller, as usual, the excellent Simon Jordan nails it.
Please Hull save football! We can't let playoff losers get promoted!
ONE Boro fan on this call... the second one completely disagrees.
And again (no idea why you're so passionate about this that you felt the need to start yet another thread) - no-one thinks Boro deserve to be in the final in terms of performance. But that doesn't mean Hull deserve a £200m windfull and a place in the Prem either! This is the same Hull that scraped 6th and were well behind everyone else in the play off picture.
A Hull v Boro final is the better of two evils. Unless you can explain why Hull should benefit so massively from a situation they weren't even involved in?
Jordan's argument seems to revolve around the fact that Boro battered Soton in the first leg (which they did) and therefore Soton got no advantage from their cheating (which he accepts)
He lays the failure of Boro to beat Soton at the feet of Boro and therefore they do not deserve to benefit from Soton cheating.
But - and it is a huge but - we can never know what would have happened without the cheating. For example did Soton defend any set pieces based on any info gathered and therefore limit Boro's scoring opportunities from those?
Of course we can never know - but what we do know is that it is fairly standard to kick out a side from a cup game if they play an illegible player. A small infringement is treated as destroying the sporting integrity of the game - therefore the team that has erred is kicked out - irrespective of the score. You can win 3-0 and bring on an illegible sub for the last min and you are still kicked out.
So once we accept Soton are rightly punished given the sporting integrity of the results in the playoffs were compromised - Boro can't possibly get a fair result unless they are reinstated.
Or would you also look to ban both teams in the cup scenario described?
Boro - yep they get lucky for sure, but anything else is to simply ignore the wrong done to them, which can only be put right by them going to the final.
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 07:28 - May 21 by The_Flashing_Smile
ONE Boro fan on this call... the second one completely disagrees.
And again (no idea why you're so passionate about this that you felt the need to start yet another thread) - no-one thinks Boro deserve to be in the final in terms of performance. But that doesn't mean Hull deserve a £200m windfull and a place in the Prem either! This is the same Hull that scraped 6th and were well behind everyone else in the play off picture.
A Hull v Boro final is the better of two evils. Unless you can explain why Hull should benefit so massively from a situation they weren't even involved in?
He could say; because Hull didn't lose? Joey Joe sure is passionately anti 'Boro getting there though, I would agree! But you are very Pro as well, aren't you?! And there is nothing wrong with either of your views, really, 'cos we are all Towan fans Up the Farkin Towan
I'm not sure what's weirder, your obsession with Boro rightly being reinstated as a result of their opponent being disqualified for cheating or you describing Simon Jordan as "excellent". He's a toupee on a potato that's been electrocuted into being barely sentient.
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:29 - May 21 by Lion
He could say; because Hull didn't lose? Joey Joe sure is passionately anti 'Boro getting there though, I would agree! But you are very Pro as well, aren't you?! And there is nothing wrong with either of your views, really, 'cos we are all Towan fans Up the Farkin Towan
Explain where Dolly is 'very pro'
"no-one thinks Boro deserve to be in the final in terms of performance. But that doesn't mean Hull deserve a £200m windfull and a place in the Prem either! This is the same Hull that scraped 6th and were well behind everyone else in the play off picture."
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:32 - May 21 by Herbivore
I'm not sure what's weirder, your obsession with Boro rightly being reinstated as a result of their opponent being disqualified for cheating or you describing Simon Jordan as "excellent". He's a toupee on a potato that's been electrocuted into being barely sentient.
He also has the air of a man who has approved some hiding in the bushes himself in the past and he's worried that this might be the start of an avalanche.
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:29 - May 21 by Lion
He could say; because Hull didn't lose? Joey Joe sure is passionately anti 'Boro getting there though, I would agree! But you are very Pro as well, aren't you?! And there is nothing wrong with either of your views, really, 'cos we are all Towan fans Up the Farkin Towan
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:24 - May 21 by bluelagos
Jordan's argument seems to revolve around the fact that Boro battered Soton in the first leg (which they did) and therefore Soton got no advantage from their cheating (which he accepts)
He lays the failure of Boro to beat Soton at the feet of Boro and therefore they do not deserve to benefit from Soton cheating.
But - and it is a huge but - we can never know what would have happened without the cheating. For example did Soton defend any set pieces based on any info gathered and therefore limit Boro's scoring opportunities from those?
Of course we can never know - but what we do know is that it is fairly standard to kick out a side from a cup game if they play an illegible player. A small infringement is treated as destroying the sporting integrity of the game - therefore the team that has erred is kicked out - irrespective of the score. You can win 3-0 and bring on an illegible sub for the last min and you are still kicked out.
So once we accept Soton are rightly punished given the sporting integrity of the results in the playoffs were compromised - Boro can't possibly get a fair result unless they are reinstated.
Or would you also look to ban both teams in the cup scenario described?
Boro - yep they get lucky for sure, but anything else is to simply ignore the wrong done to them, which can only be put right by them going to the final.
His argument entirely falls down under any scrutiny. Saying the punishment was too severe and then simply responding with "I don't know" when asked what a suitable punishment would be was enlightening.
Ultimately, if you attempt to mug someone, but they don't have anything to steal, it is still a crime.
If you do 100 MPH on the motorway, but subsequently get caught in traffic, it is still a crime.
If you attempt armed robbery, but fail to steal any money, it is still a crime.
In any of those scenarios, the perpetrator would not benefit.
Whether you benefit or not is not a marker of what the punishment should be. The marker is whether you sought to benefit, which Soton did.
I think both Jordan and Mills were well off the wider opinion on this. It's a rare thing to say, but all credit to the EFL on this one. They have set a precedent. If you seek to gain advantage by cheating you will be severely punished.
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:24 - May 21 by bluelagos
Jordan's argument seems to revolve around the fact that Boro battered Soton in the first leg (which they did) and therefore Soton got no advantage from their cheating (which he accepts)
He lays the failure of Boro to beat Soton at the feet of Boro and therefore they do not deserve to benefit from Soton cheating.
But - and it is a huge but - we can never know what would have happened without the cheating. For example did Soton defend any set pieces based on any info gathered and therefore limit Boro's scoring opportunities from those?
Of course we can never know - but what we do know is that it is fairly standard to kick out a side from a cup game if they play an illegible player. A small infringement is treated as destroying the sporting integrity of the game - therefore the team that has erred is kicked out - irrespective of the score. You can win 3-0 and bring on an illegible sub for the last min and you are still kicked out.
So once we accept Soton are rightly punished given the sporting integrity of the results in the playoffs were compromised - Boro can't possibly get a fair result unless they are reinstated.
Or would you also look to ban both teams in the cup scenario described?
Boro - yep they get lucky for sure, but anything else is to simply ignore the wrong done to them, which can only be put right by them going to the final.
I haven't had time to listen, but is the argument essentially that cheating is only worth punishing if an advantage is clearly gained?
Seems pretty ridiculous to me
1
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:47 - May 21 with 2325 views
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:40 - May 21 by TheMoralMajority
His argument entirely falls down under any scrutiny. Saying the punishment was too severe and then simply responding with "I don't know" when asked what a suitable punishment would be was enlightening.
Ultimately, if you attempt to mug someone, but they don't have anything to steal, it is still a crime.
If you do 100 MPH on the motorway, but subsequently get caught in traffic, it is still a crime.
If you attempt armed robbery, but fail to steal any money, it is still a crime.
In any of those scenarios, the perpetrator would not benefit.
Whether you benefit or not is not a marker of what the punishment should be. The marker is whether you sought to benefit, which Soton did.
I think both Jordan and Mills were well off the wider opinion on this. It's a rare thing to say, but all credit to the EFL on this one. They have set a precedent. If you seek to gain advantage by cheating you will be severely punished.
The minority voices are shouting loudest on this. Seems to be broad support from some polls for the EFL taking the action they've taken but lots of shouty folk, some of whom are professional contrarians, are banging the drum that it's a massive injustice. It really isn't. They cheated multiple times and got caught red-handed. They deserve everything they got.
What fascinates me is how quite a few of us got so passionately involved in a furore that we weren't directly affected by in terms of outcome, that we (I include myself) became quite obsessive over it.
I've never been so glued to my phone as I was over this - it felt like an addiction!
A desire for justice and moral compass in football?
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 09:05 - May 21 by Ryorry
What fascinates me is how quite a few of us got so passionately involved in a furore that we weren't directly affected by in terms of outcome, that we (I include myself) became quite obsessive over it.
I've never been so glued to my phone as I was over this - it felt like an addiction!
A desire for justice and moral compass in football?
Largely kept out of it on here - but was defo checking for updates!
Sporting integrity matters - can you imagine if Soton had just been fined a few quid? Would be an open door to others to do the same knowing the prize (promotion) was worth so much more than a fine...
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:47 - May 21 by Herbivore
The minority voices are shouting loudest on this. Seems to be broad support from some polls for the EFL taking the action they've taken but lots of shouty folk, some of whom are professional contrarians, are banging the drum that it's a massive injustice. It really isn't. They cheated multiple times and got caught red-handed. They deserve everything they got.
This!
They got caught red-handed in the Boro situation. They then admitted two more offences which, I think, were the only games they didn’t win in their ridiculous run. Does anyone really think they didn’t cheat on their way up the table?
4
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 09:19 - May 21 with 2105 views
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:29 - May 21 by Lion
He could say; because Hull didn't lose? Joey Joe sure is passionately anti 'Boro getting there though, I would agree! But you are very Pro as well, aren't you?! And there is nothing wrong with either of your views, really, 'cos we are all Towan fans Up the Farkin Towan
I'm not pro Boro at all. I said, "no-one thinks Boro deserve to be in the final in terms of performance" and "A Hull v Boro final is the better of two evils."
Everyone knows the rules of the playoffs before the season begins - third to sixth play semi finals, then a final. Only the winner of that final gets to play in the Prem and the £200m windfall attached. If he can explain why Hull deserve to go to the prem without having to play a play-off final then I'd agree there's nothing wrong with his view.
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:24 - May 21 by bluelagos
Jordan's argument seems to revolve around the fact that Boro battered Soton in the first leg (which they did) and therefore Soton got no advantage from their cheating (which he accepts)
He lays the failure of Boro to beat Soton at the feet of Boro and therefore they do not deserve to benefit from Soton cheating.
But - and it is a huge but - we can never know what would have happened without the cheating. For example did Soton defend any set pieces based on any info gathered and therefore limit Boro's scoring opportunities from those?
Of course we can never know - but what we do know is that it is fairly standard to kick out a side from a cup game if they play an illegible player. A small infringement is treated as destroying the sporting integrity of the game - therefore the team that has erred is kicked out - irrespective of the score. You can win 3-0 and bring on an illegible sub for the last min and you are still kicked out.
So once we accept Soton are rightly punished given the sporting integrity of the results in the playoffs were compromised - Boro can't possibly get a fair result unless they are reinstated.
Or would you also look to ban both teams in the cup scenario described?
Boro - yep they get lucky for sure, but anything else is to simply ignore the wrong done to them, which can only be put right by them going to the final.
Yes, you will never be able to quantify the extent of the advantage Southampton got. You can extrapolate that over the course of the second half of the season too assuming (as seems likely) they were routinely spying on their opponents. Football is largely a game of seriously fine margins with huge financial rewards riding on it. So, even if they gained a 1% advantage that could be important. To be honest they have completely stuck two fingers up to the integrity of the league and deserved the book to be thrown at them.
3
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 11:50 - May 21 with 1565 views
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 10:30 - May 21 by The_Flashing_Smile
I'm not pro Boro at all. I said, "no-one thinks Boro deserve to be in the final in terms of performance" and "A Hull v Boro final is the better of two evils."
Everyone knows the rules of the playoffs before the season begins - third to sixth play semi finals, then a final. Only the winner of that final gets to play in the Prem and the £200m windfall attached. If he can explain why Hull deserve to go to the prem without having to play a play-off final then I'd agree there's nothing wrong with his view.
Not pro Boro, pro Boro going to the final which you clearly are. and that's ok
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:35 - May 21 by Cheltenham_Blue
Explain where Dolly is 'very pro'
"no-one thinks Boro deserve to be in the final in terms of performance. But that doesn't mean Hull deserve a £200m windfull and a place in the Prem either! This is the same Hull that scraped 6th and were well behind everyone else in the play off picture."
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 08:32 - May 21 by Herbivore
I'm not sure what's weirder, your obsession with Boro rightly being reinstated as a result of their opponent being disqualified for cheating or you describing Simon Jordan as "excellent". He's a toupee on a potato that's been electrocuted into being barely sentient.
Talking about weird, you seem to have a big obession with other people in life having strong opinions ( unless they match your own ) and particularly if said people are relatively wealthy or what most people would classify as successful in life. Why is that I wonder?
In the last couple weeks you have been insulting towards Morrissey and now Simon Jordan, i'm sure in the unlikely event that either of them read this forum, they wouldn't give a damn, but i've noticed you can be equally as insulting/rude to other posters on here who have the audacity to share a view that differs from your own. For the most part I think it says more about you than them to be honest.
Seeing as you are so fond of Morrissey, here is one of his finest that i'm sure he wrote just for people like you.
-1
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 13:08 - May 21 with 1232 views
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 11:50 - May 21 by Lion
Not pro Boro, pro Boro going to the final which you clearly are. and that's ok
I'm not really pro them going to the final. I just think it's the only option in the circumstances, given the alternative seems to be Hull go up without even having to play it, due to a situation that was nothing to do with them!
But he's also missing the point, Soton cheated against us and that point won meant they finished above Boro and therefore also had the advantage of playing away first. Basically they cheated against Boro twice.
Trouble with Jordan is he feels as long as the cheating club pays enough money out to the impacted club(s) all is fine.
2
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 14:13 - May 21 with 1061 views
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 07:28 - May 21 by The_Flashing_Smile
ONE Boro fan on this call... the second one completely disagrees.
And again (no idea why you're so passionate about this that you felt the need to start yet another thread) - no-one thinks Boro deserve to be in the final in terms of performance. But that doesn't mean Hull deserve a £200m windfull and a place in the Prem either! This is the same Hull that scraped 6th and were well behind everyone else in the play off picture.
A Hull v Boro final is the better of two evils. Unless you can explain why Hull should benefit so massively from a situation they weren't even involved in?
It’s the biggest story in world football at the moment, I’ll start as another many threads as I want, or be as passionate as I want on any issue, not really for you to say is it. Look how passionate people are on here about all kinds of rubbish on here. I hate cheese anyway. It’s shite.
At least it invokes discussion instead of an “Ashton out” protest or something.
If it’s getting under your skin don’t read them, just because you can’t understand that your opinion is might not be as cut dry at you think outside of main TWTD clique. There’s a few on here that agree with me as well.
Hull won their semi final on the pitch, Boro fluffed their opportunity. Southampton cheated against multiple teams in the EFL this year and no other side gets a benefit or awarded a win this season. it’s unprecedented so, the EFL have shown bottle against the cheats, fine. Boro are the only one to benefit from it in such an extreme way. Didn’t earn their opportunity on the pitch. I’m glad a lot of their fans from podcasts to phone in’s have good integrity to say so.
Again Hull won their semi final, they’re the only team in the tournament to do so and shouldn’t face such an unfair disadvantage from this saga.
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 14:13 - May 21 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
It’s the biggest story in world football at the moment, I’ll start as another many threads as I want, or be as passionate as I want on any issue, not really for you to say is it. Look how passionate people are on here about all kinds of rubbish on here. I hate cheese anyway. It’s shite.
At least it invokes discussion instead of an “Ashton out” protest or something.
If it’s getting under your skin don’t read them, just because you can’t understand that your opinion is might not be as cut dry at you think outside of main TWTD clique. There’s a few on here that agree with me as well.
Hull won their semi final on the pitch, Boro fluffed their opportunity. Southampton cheated against multiple teams in the EFL this year and no other side gets a benefit or awarded a win this season. it’s unprecedented so, the EFL have shown bottle against the cheats, fine. Boro are the only one to benefit from it in such an extreme way. Didn’t earn their opportunity on the pitch. I’m glad a lot of their fans from podcasts to phone in’s have good integrity to say so.
Again Hull won their semi final, they’re the only team in the tournament to do so and shouldn’t face such an unfair disadvantage from this saga.
so your answer to prevent boro getting a minor advantage after they'd been cheated against is to give an absolutely massive advantage to hull who hadn't been cheated against?
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 12:06 - May 21 by BlueOura
Talking about weird, you seem to have a big obession with other people in life having strong opinions ( unless they match your own ) and particularly if said people are relatively wealthy or what most people would classify as successful in life. Why is that I wonder?
In the last couple weeks you have been insulting towards Morrissey and now Simon Jordan, i'm sure in the unlikely event that either of them read this forum, they wouldn't give a damn, but i've noticed you can be equally as insulting/rude to other posters on here who have the audacity to share a view that differs from your own. For the most part I think it says more about you than them to be honest.
Seeing as you are so fond of Morrissey, here is one of his finest that i'm sure he wrote just for people like you.
Morrissey is a complete berk, as is Simon Jordan. Why are you so triggered by someone having an opinion about public figures, particularly ones who aren't exactly afraid to put themselves out there? So if we're going down the very weird route, you might want to reflect on your own post.
Boro fans going up in my estimation! on 14:17 - May 21 by positivity
so your answer to prevent boro getting a minor advantage after they'd been cheated against is to give an absolutely massive advantage to hull who hadn't been cheated against?
wibble!
Hull won, Boro lost. Southampton beat loads of teams in important season defining games for playoff chasing sides at the end of the season, Wrexham, Norwich, Derby. Unless of course they only cheated against us an Oxford, lol. Just kick them out, don’t reward losing, the others haven’t had that advantage for their chance to make the tournament.
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