| "I can't breathe" 07:35 - Jun 2 with 3684 views | BlueSmoke |
The final words of Henry Nowak as he was handcuffed and bleeding out from 5 stab wounds. The footage should worry everyone of us.
Government FORCED to make a statement.
Could be a pivotal moment for this broken country. |  | | |  |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:33 - Jun 2 with 739 views | noggin |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:22 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
The police statement above states that the coroner asserted that there was nothing that the officers could have done that would have saved his life.
Certainly they didn't contribute to his death. |
Thanks. I imagine that means that an ambulance was already on the way before officers restrained him, that the crew were given immediate access to him, on arrival, and that he was either already dead, or beyond help by then. |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:33 - Jun 2 with 735 views | TownieRob |
| "I can't breathe" on 08:53 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It is the same last words, which is why they are highlighted in the title, I am sure.
The reason for taking the knee was not the last words. It is the continued racism that led to the police response. What do you propose a renewal of taking the knee now for? Is it that you think white people are suffering from discrimination and need protection? Is it really? I suggest you look into the facts surrounding discrimination and what really goes on.
This is a tragic case where (once again) police have acted wrongly. There will (and should) be an inquiry into why they have acted that way. Hopefully there will be changes that prevent such reactions happening again too.
One thing we do agree on, though, is there is still a place for taking the knee - because racism is still rife (indeed much in modern politics/media is empowering it). |
I think you're reading a bit too much into a fairly simple comment. I didn't mention discrimination against white people and I certaintly didn't say the cases were identical either.
I simply questioned whether this case will get the same level of attention, scrutiny and public response as the other one did.
Seems a fair enough question to me. |  | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:34 - Jun 2 with 736 views | chantryblueboy |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:26 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
You are speculating that there is some scale of offences that ranks racism above other crimes.
There had been a report to the police that this was a racial assault and there was no other report made. Did anyone point out what had happened to the officers attending?
Imagine the scene - a group of angry individuals are holding down someone they say has assaulted one of them and shouted racist things at them. The response is to then arrest that individual. Did they need to handcuff him, though? At some point they have then realised the individual is seriously hurt and needs medical attention and have acted on that. Why did it take 3 minutes to come to that conclusion?
There was no need to speculate on anything else. |
If you watch the video you will see this is not the case. Henry is curled up in a ball and says ‘I’ve been stabbed’. The officer responds ‘I don’t think you have mate’, proceeds to handcuff him, and he becomes unresponsive. Stop trying to justify something you clearly have no idea about please, until you become better informed | | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:34 - Jun 2 with 706 views | lowhouseblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:26 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
You are speculating that there is some scale of offences that ranks racism above other crimes.
There had been a report to the police that this was a racial assault and there was no other report made. Did anyone point out what had happened to the officers attending?
Imagine the scene - a group of angry individuals are holding down someone they say has assaulted one of them and shouted racist things at them. The response is to then arrest that individual. Did they need to handcuff him, though? At some point they have then realised the individual is seriously hurt and needs medical attention and have acted on that. Why did it take 3 minutes to come to that conclusion?
There was no need to speculate on anything else. |
they arrived and there was a man on the floor clearly incapacitated and saying that he had been stabbed and couldn't breathe. why did that not become the obvious priority? there was an agitated man behaving quite strangely and making claims of racism - why was he immediately believed and prioritised over the incapacitated man saying that he couldn't breathe? the assumptions and thinking that led the officers to make those decisions need to be considered.
your complete lack of curiosity on this occasion to understand why wrong decisions were made is strange. hopefully the inquiry will be more searching.
in terms of 'imagining the scene' i thought you said you wouldn't watch the footage? [Post edited 2 Jun 9:36]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:43 - Jun 2 with 652 views | DJR |
I thought these words from the judge were rather disturbing.
“You have brought shame on your family, your community and your religion."
I can't remember a judge ever mentioning the latter two items when sentencing a white person, especially as it doesn't seem to be the case that the defendant carried out the murder for religious reasons but instead had an obsession with weapons. [Post edited 2 Jun 9:52]
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:44 - Jun 2 with 631 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:34 - Jun 2 by lowhouseblue |
they arrived and there was a man on the floor clearly incapacitated and saying that he had been stabbed and couldn't breathe. why did that not become the obvious priority? there was an agitated man behaving quite strangely and making claims of racism - why was he immediately believed and prioritised over the incapacitated man saying that he couldn't breathe? the assumptions and thinking that led the officers to make those decisions need to be considered.
your complete lack of curiosity on this occasion to understand why wrong decisions were made is strange. hopefully the inquiry will be more searching.
in terms of 'imagining the scene' i thought you said you wouldn't watch the footage? [Post edited 2 Jun 9:36]
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Thanks for filling in some of the gaps.
As I say, those things are for the enquiry to establish.
I find it strange the stab wounds weren't obvious. |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:44 - Jun 2 with 636 views | noggin |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:33 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
I think you're reading a bit too much into a fairly simple comment. I didn't mention discrimination against white people and I certaintly didn't say the cases were identical either.
I simply questioned whether this case will get the same level of attention, scrutiny and public response as the other one did.
Seems a fair enough question to me. |
"I simply questioned whether this case will get the same level of attention, scrutiny and public response as the other one did."
Why should it? GF was killed by a police officer. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:46 - Jun 2 with 607 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:33 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
I think you're reading a bit too much into a fairly simple comment. I didn't mention discrimination against white people and I certaintly didn't say the cases were identical either.
I simply questioned whether this case will get the same level of attention, scrutiny and public response as the other one did.
Seems a fair enough question to me. |
You didn't post "I expect to see players taking the knee before kick-off this season. If the principle is the same, then surely the response should be too." then? | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:46 - Jun 2 with 607 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:33 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
I think you're reading a bit too much into a fairly simple comment. I didn't mention discrimination against white people and I certaintly didn't say the cases were identical either.
I simply questioned whether this case will get the same level of attention, scrutiny and public response as the other one did.
Seems a fair enough question to me. |
There are enough posts now explaining it. Why do you think they deserve the same response (a worldwide protest action)?
This case will also get the maximum level of attention and scrutiny - it already is. But it won't get people taking the knee. Can you not work out why? And why should you want it anyway, given you've stated the scenarios are not the same? |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:47 - Jun 2 with 606 views | noggin |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:44 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Thanks for filling in some of the gaps.
As I say, those things are for the enquiry to establish.
I find it strange the stab wounds weren't obvious. |
"I find it strange the stab wounds weren't obvious."
Blood soaked into a dark sweater is not immediately obvious, although, there was plenty of blood on the ground and if he died that quickly, his sweater would probably have been drenched and so should have been obvious to anyone restraining him. I say probably because he may have been bleeding into the chest cavity, heart or lungs.
We just don't know. [Post edited 2 Jun 9:50]
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:50 - Jun 2 with 582 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:33 - Jun 2 by noggin |
Thanks. I imagine that means that an ambulance was already on the way before officers restrained him, that the crew were given immediate access to him, on arrival, and that he was either already dead, or beyond help by then. |
According to the police statement (linked on this thread), the coroner's report states the wounds were fatal and medical attention would not have saved him. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:50 - Jun 2 with 577 views | TownieRob |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:44 - Jun 2 by noggin |
"I simply questioned whether this case will get the same level of attention, scrutiny and public response as the other one did."
Why should it? GF was killed by a police officer. |
Have you actually watched the footage? If not, I'd start there.
If you've watched the footage and genuinely think there are no questions to be asked about the actions of the police, then we're probably never going to agree. | | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:52 - Jun 2 with 559 views | SWGF |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:50 - Jun 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
According to the police statement (linked on this thread), the coroner's report states the wounds were fatal and medical attention would not have saved him. |
And, I believe, his family have accepted that. It's his care/treatment, in his final minutes, that is their issue, understandably. |  |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:52 - Jun 2 with 552 views | chantryblueboy |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:43 - Jun 2 by DJR |
I thought these words from the judge were rather disturbing.
“You have brought shame on your family, your community and your religion."
I can't remember a judge ever mentioning the latter two items when sentencing a white person, especially as it doesn't seem to be the case that the defendant carried out the murder for religious reasons but instead had an obsession with weapons. [Post edited 2 Jun 9:52]
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He was legally entitled to carry the knife with which he committed the murder due to a religious exemption, so obviously this part is relevant. The Hampshire police commissioner is now calling for a review on this exemption - triggered directly by the actions of Mr Digwa | | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:53 - Jun 2 with 537 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:50 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
Have you actually watched the footage? If not, I'd start there.
If you've watched the footage and genuinely think there are no questions to be asked about the actions of the police, then we're probably never going to agree. |
Nobody is saying there are no questions to be asked about the actions of the police are they? | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 09:54 - Jun 2 with 529 views | noggin |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:50 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
Have you actually watched the footage? If not, I'd start there.
If you've watched the footage and genuinely think there are no questions to be asked about the actions of the police, then we're probably never going to agree. |
Yes I have, and I have personally questioned the actions of the police, but the coroner has stated that officers didn't contribute to his death. He was murdered by a member of the public. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 10:02 - Jun 2 with 484 views | bsw72 |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:43 - Jun 2 by DJR |
I thought these words from the judge were rather disturbing.
“You have brought shame on your family, your community and your religion."
I can't remember a judge ever mentioning the latter two items when sentencing a white person, especially as it doesn't seem to be the case that the defendant carried out the murder for religious reasons but instead had an obsession with weapons. [Post edited 2 Jun 9:52]
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The murderer abused a religious right that permits Seikh's the right to carry a symbolic dagger (Kirpan), hence the judge was correct to highlight the shame it has brought on the Seikh community. Will no doubt now add fuel to the fire of those wishing to drive further division across our society, sadly. |  | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 10:06 - Jun 2 with 455 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:43 - Jun 2 by DJR |
I thought these words from the judge were rather disturbing.
“You have brought shame on your family, your community and your religion."
I can't remember a judge ever mentioning the latter two items when sentencing a white person, especially as it doesn't seem to be the case that the defendant carried out the murder for religious reasons but instead had an obsession with weapons. [Post edited 2 Jun 9:52]
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It was claimed, by the perpetrators, to be a racist attack. And the weapon was claimed to be carried for religious reasons. So I think they're fair comments by the judge. Those actions, on top of the murder, will inevitably stir up racial and religious tensions. It's an absolute gift to the far right. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 10:13 - Jun 2 with 418 views | DJR |
| "I can't breathe" on 10:02 - Jun 2 by bsw72 |
The murderer abused a religious right that permits Seikh's the right to carry a symbolic dagger (Kirpan), hence the judge was correct to highlight the shame it has brought on the Seikh community. Will no doubt now add fuel to the fire of those wishing to drive further division across our society, sadly. |
Leaving aside that fact that it isn't right to hold an entire community responsible for the actions of one person, this from the Guardian says that he didn't use the kirpan.
The prosecution, had told the jury at Southampton crown court that while Digwa was wearing a small kirpan (a ceremonial sword or dagger worn by initiated Sikhs) under his clothing around his neck, which met his religious obligation, he also chose to carry the much larger knife.
During the sentencing hearing, Nicholas Lobbenberg KC, for the prosecution, described the killing as a “sustained attack on an unarmed man”. He said Digwa was “skilled with weapons, trained with weapons, sleeps with weapons, searches for weapons on his phone”. The barrister said: “He is a man with a weapon obsession.” [Post edited 2 Jun 10:14]
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| "I can't breathe" on 10:16 - Jun 2 with 388 views | chantryblueboy |
| "I can't breathe" on 10:13 - Jun 2 by DJR |
Leaving aside that fact that it isn't right to hold an entire community responsible for the actions of one person, this from the Guardian says that he didn't use the kirpan.
The prosecution, had told the jury at Southampton crown court that while Digwa was wearing a small kirpan (a ceremonial sword or dagger worn by initiated Sikhs) under his clothing around his neck, which met his religious obligation, he also chose to carry the much larger knife.
During the sentencing hearing, Nicholas Lobbenberg KC, for the prosecution, described the killing as a “sustained attack on an unarmed man”. He said Digwa was “skilled with weapons, trained with weapons, sleeps with weapons, searches for weapons on his phone”. The barrister said: “He is a man with a weapon obsession.” [Post edited 2 Jun 10:14]
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PCC Jones said: "At the moment in this country, Vickrum Digwa carrying that knife, it was lawful for him to do that as long as he carried it in a sheath, which he did, as a Sikh gentlemen he is able to carry that knife. | | | |
| "I can't breathe" on 10:25 - Jun 2 with 347 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| "I can't breathe" on 09:50 - Jun 2 by TownieRob |
Have you actually watched the footage? If not, I'd start there.
If you've watched the footage and genuinely think there are no questions to be asked about the actions of the police, then we're probably never going to agree. |
Strawman. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 11:04 - Jun 2 with 274 views | positivity |
| "I can't breathe" on 10:16 - Jun 2 by chantryblueboy |
PCC Jones said: "At the moment in this country, Vickrum Digwa carrying that knife, it was lawful for him to do that as long as he carried it in a sheath, which he did, as a Sikh gentlemen he is able to carry that knife. |
i've read that he was *not* legally allowed to carry the knife that he murdered nowak with, it was far larger than the stipulations for a kirpan, as set out in the 1980s law that allowed the carrying of kirpans.
how many people have been murdered with kirpans in the uk since the '80s? how many people have been murdered with (also legal) penknives?
this isn't a religion issue, it's a criminality issue | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 11:14 - Jun 2 with 232 views | redrickstuhaart |
| "I can't breathe" on 11:04 - Jun 2 by positivity |
i've read that he was *not* legally allowed to carry the knife that he murdered nowak with, it was far larger than the stipulations for a kirpan, as set out in the 1980s law that allowed the carrying of kirpans.
how many people have been murdered with kirpans in the uk since the '80s? how many people have been murdered with (also legal) penknives?
this isn't a religion issue, it's a criminality issue |
Quite. Massive undercurrent here of racists using an awful incident to promote the idea that England is under siege by brown murderous immigrants. Which is nonsense. | |
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| "I can't breathe" on 11:22 - Jun 2 with 179 views | lowhouseblue |
| "I can't breathe" on 11:04 - Jun 2 by positivity |
i've read that he was *not* legally allowed to carry the knife that he murdered nowak with, it was far larger than the stipulations for a kirpan, as set out in the 1980s law that allowed the carrying of kirpans.
how many people have been murdered with kirpans in the uk since the '80s? how many people have been murdered with (also legal) penknives?
this isn't a religion issue, it's a criminality issue |
that's wrong. the law doesn't specify a maximum size of a kirpan. the only stipulation for the exemption to apply is the purpose for which it is carried - ceremonial / religious. a legal restriction on size and design - so that they are mainly symbolic rather than practical - would seem sensible, but that isn't the law currently. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "I can't breathe" on 11:41 - Jun 2 with 137 views | jayessess |
Good to hear that's everyone's very concerned about deaths in police custody.
Some links to good campaigns:
Inquest - that supports families following deaths involving the state - https://inquest.org.uk/
UFFC - that holds an annual march to commemorate/protest deaths in custody. https://uffcampaign.org/ |  |
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