| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote 09:16 - Jun 14 with 5216 views | StokieBlue |
Now we are nearing 10 years since Brexit the vote and there is a good set of data from which we can draw some decent conclusions.
https://www.theguardian.com/po
The general conclusion is that it's been a bit of a disaster. There are some nice charts in the article but the main points are below:
- A decade later, the pound has never returned above its pre-Brexit level, hitting British holidaymakers in the pocket. From close to $1.50 against the dollar and €1.31 against the euro just after polling closed, the pound stands at $1.34 and €1.15.
- According to the Office for Budget Responsibility, the independent Treasury watchdog, the UK is on track to suffer a 4% hit to national income over a 15-year period.
- According to Bloom, employment in the UK is between 3% and 4% lower than it would have been under a remain scenario.
- Investment in the UK has fallen behind other countries by 18%
- Brexit has left the UK economy 6-8% smaller than other countries
The sooner a party can pluck up the courage to run on a pro-EU ticket the better. If eventually decide to join again without our veto and the pound then so be it.
With AI coming along, the rise in NEETs and the possible weakening of NATO, we don't need to be giving ourselves these other disadvantages as well. Not to mention a generation who have been denied the opportunities that freedom of movement would have allowed them.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 9:29]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:22 - Jun 14 with 2990 views | Leaky |
Is it 2030 already, bloody hell I missed 4 years. |  | | |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:29 - Jun 14 with 2911 views | Benters |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:22 - Jun 14 by Leaky |
Is it 2030 already, bloody hell I missed 4 years. |
I was going to say it’s not 10 years is it !
2016 👮♀️👍🇬🇧 [Post edited 14 Jun 9:30]
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| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:30 - Jun 14 with 2945 views | StokieBlue |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:22 - Jun 14 by Leaky |
Is it 2030 already, bloody hell I missed 4 years. |
Thanks, amended for precision as I should have said vote.
That makes it even worse as it's all happened in even less time.
Do you care to tackle any of the points raised or you prefer to snipe about something that was pretty obvious anyway?
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 9:30]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:31 - Jun 14 with 2932 views | StokieBlue |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:29 - Jun 14 by Benters |
I was going to say it’s not 10 years is it !
2016 👮♀️👍🇬🇧 [Post edited 14 Jun 9:30]
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Care to tackle any of the points raised and add some value to the forum?
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:15 - Jun 14 with 2732 views | pointofblue |
Michael Heseltine has written a hit piece in The Independent directed at Johnson, Gove and Farage for supporting Brexit based on these figures. Unfortunately it's behind a paywall. As much as Cameron will be understandably blamed for holding a referendum I think we were always going to get at to that point anyway.
The Liberal Democrats have been on a rejoin ticket since we left. The issue is we're not going to get the benefits we had prior to leaving, such as the rebate (which seemed farcical to have but the favourable terms were never promoted enough during the campaign) and keeping the pound as a stronger currency. |  |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:20 - Jun 14 with 2703 views | Mullet |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:15 - Jun 14 by pointofblue |
Michael Heseltine has written a hit piece in The Independent directed at Johnson, Gove and Farage for supporting Brexit based on these figures. Unfortunately it's behind a paywall. As much as Cameron will be understandably blamed for holding a referendum I think we were always going to get at to that point anyway.
The Liberal Democrats have been on a rejoin ticket since we left. The issue is we're not going to get the benefits we had prior to leaving, such as the rebate (which seemed farcical to have but the favourable terms were never promoted enough during the campaign) and keeping the pound as a stronger currency. |
The fact none of them are in jail is a travesty. |  |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:24 - Jun 14 with 2693 views | grow_our_own |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:15 - Jun 14 by pointofblue |
Michael Heseltine has written a hit piece in The Independent directed at Johnson, Gove and Farage for supporting Brexit based on these figures. Unfortunately it's behind a paywall. As much as Cameron will be understandably blamed for holding a referendum I think we were always going to get at to that point anyway.
The Liberal Democrats have been on a rejoin ticket since we left. The issue is we're not going to get the benefits we had prior to leaving, such as the rebate (which seemed farcical to have but the favourable terms were never promoted enough during the campaign) and keeping the pound as a stronger currency. |
Rebate was £4-5bn. Losing 4% of the economy costs £132bn. We should rejoin, rebate or not. | | | |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:27 - Jun 14 with 2672 views | Meadowlark |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:20 - Jun 14 by Mullet |
The fact none of them are in jail is a travesty. |
The fact that ALL of them plus the Tory Covid thieves are not in jail just demonstrates who runs the place and who it is run for. |  | | |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 10:28 - Jun 14 with 2666 views | BlueBadger |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:29 - Jun 14 by Benters |
I was going to say it’s not 10 years is it !
2016 👮♀️👍🇬🇧 [Post edited 14 Jun 9:30]
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You must be furious that 52% of the country voted to make it poorer and open the doors to greater immigration. |  |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:28 - Jun 14 with 2649 views | Mullet |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:27 - Jun 14 by Meadowlark |
The fact that ALL of them plus the Tory Covid thieves are not in jail just demonstrates who runs the place and who it is run for. |
Yep, authoritarian states or in the old days would have executed them without blinking wouldn't they? Traitors the lot of em | |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:29 - Jun 14 with 2645 views | StokieBlue |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:24 - Jun 14 by grow_our_own |
Rebate was £4-5bn. Losing 4% of the economy costs £132bn. We should rejoin, rebate or not. |
Absolutely.
Other similar sized countries do fine without the rebate, veto or even their own currency.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:31 - Jun 14 with 2627 views | BlueBadger |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:28 - Jun 14 by Mullet |
Yep, authoritarian states or in the old days would have executed them without blinking wouldn't they? Traitors the lot of em |
Speaking of traitors, noted Quisling Stephen Yaxley-Lennon has been arrested again following his trip to Moscow to lick up to a foreign nonce who's family like to throw siege heils.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/ [Post edited 14 Jun 10:45]
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:35 - Jun 14 with 2570 views | noggin |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:31 - Jun 14 by BlueBadger |
Speaking of traitors, noted Quisling Stephen Yaxley-Lennon has been arrested again following his trip to Moscow to lick up to a foreign nonce who's family like to throw siege heils.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/ [Post edited 14 Jun 10:45]
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"However, shortly after his release, Robinson was seen to share a link to a legal fundraising page, adding: 'So here we go again, looks like more defence and court fees ffs!!!"
Fools and their money.... |  |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:36 - Jun 14 with 2563 views | BlueBadger |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:35 - Jun 14 by noggin |
"However, shortly after his release, Robinson was seen to share a link to a legal fundraising page, adding: 'So here we go again, looks like more defence and court fees ffs!!!"
Fools and their money.... |
I bet the money he raises will be nothing to sniff at.... | |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:38 - Jun 14 with 2544 views | Mullet |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:36 - Jun 14 by BlueBadger |
I bet the money he raises will be nothing to sniff at.... |
He also suggested the Canary had libelled him with their headline, but won't sue them.....
I heard on a pod this week the security services are watching him and Nigel "like hawks" but surely they have enough now to class them as threats to the public and domestic terrorists? | |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:00 - Jun 14 with 2371 views | BloomBlue |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 10:15 - Jun 14 by pointofblue |
Michael Heseltine has written a hit piece in The Independent directed at Johnson, Gove and Farage for supporting Brexit based on these figures. Unfortunately it's behind a paywall. As much as Cameron will be understandably blamed for holding a referendum I think we were always going to get at to that point anyway.
The Liberal Democrats have been on a rejoin ticket since we left. The issue is we're not going to get the benefits we had prior to leaving, such as the rebate (which seemed farcical to have but the favourable terms were never promoted enough during the campaign) and keeping the pound as a stronger currency. |
That's the bit which confuses me. LibDems have been on a rejoin ticket since we left, but then people moan when will a party have the balls to run on a rejoin ticket. That option has always been there, but I find those people calling for a return, never seem to champion voting for the LibDems |  | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:03 - Jun 14 with 2354 views | BlueBadger |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:00 - Jun 14 by BloomBlue |
That's the bit which confuses me. LibDems have been on a rejoin ticket since we left, but then people moan when will a party have the balls to run on a rejoin ticket. That option has always been there, but I find those people calling for a return, never seem to champion voting for the LibDems |
People tend to vote for politicians based around the spread of their views and record. Whilst they might have been calling for rejoining people also remember the role they had in propping up and supporting 5 years of devastating austerity cuts which ultimately fuelled a certain amount of the resentment that led to a 'leave' vote, for example. [Post edited 14 Jun 11:12]
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:14 - Jun 14 with 2299 views | Churchman |
It was blindingly obvious before Brexit that the economic hit would be catastrophic. I could see no other outcome at the time.
Article 50 was signed by May at the end of March 2017. She didn’t have to do that. It was already clear there were political problems with Northern Ireland before you get to the point that the only Brexit team that had been formed was DExEU. They were at that time a small team and there to deal with the negotiation and political side.
They had no idea whatsoever what the economic impact would be. Nor did they have the skills to negotiate their way out of their own bathrooms. The odd thing is that it was only after March 17 teams were formed to deal with the physical impact. One team for example started with eight people in April 17 and was at over 160 by July 19.
A problem was that nobody had a clue how the economy worked, what the impact might be, importing exporting, licensing, pilot and lorry driver time, IT, agri products, visas, signage, Felixstowe, Immingham, relationships with peer ports, Eurotunnel, BIPs, contingency planning, etc etc etc, literally everything from pallets to processes. It took months to work out and every moth looked worse than the last. Yet the government carried on.
Not only were specific project teams formed but just about every government department project was shelved or put on hold. For some like DEFRA, it was even worse. Under Austerity cuts there were no project teams. The unproductive ‘dead wood’ (see Francis Maude 2010) had been booted out. They were not alone.
Enter contractors from PwC and others. who paid for all this? The Taxpayer. Literally money no object. Money found. It had to be. The internet says implementation alone cost £3tn It’s why I say when the govt bleat about no money, they’re telling whoppers.
The more the impact was examined the worse it got. Pandoras Box. What ‘no deal’ in reality meant was no food, no water, no electricity, no transport, petrol, flights etc - a complete inability to function. Social impact? That’s obvious. Ministers went nuts and actually were in denial most of the time.
Only the Select Committee Chairpeople really got it. As late as 2018 the Cabinet were called to Chequers on a Sunday to have explained to them what a Customs Union and Single Market was. They didn’t know/didn’t want to.
The problem of Northern Ireland was never solved. It never could be. The only solution was to end the Brexit nonsense. That gave the government the perfect get out in my view (threat to Good Friday Agreement, break up of the U.K. etc), but they ignored it.
A considerable amount of work went on behind the scenes to mitigate the worst and by March 2019 there would at least be some basic things like food in the shops. When Johnson talked of an over ready deal, he implied that somehow he’d negotiated something good. The actual content of the deal was mostly about keeping the country functioning. Work done long before he wobbled in.
A lot of people did some phenomenal work on this but will never get the credit they deserve. A lot was done in secret, out of the public eye; much of it really dull stuff the media were never going to get excited about anyway. Much of the media stuff was wrong, made up, half truths - but that’s what media do.
In conclusion, we are very lucky the country functions at all. The negative effect on the U.K. will only worsen, but there is a solution. Rejoin the single market (that the U.K. was instrumental in creating (Thatcher of all lizards) and Customs Union. Whatever the cost, it’ll be worth it economically, politically and socially.
Apologies for the rant. [Post edited 14 Jun 15:24]
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:21 - Jun 14 with 2242 views | badadski |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:14 - Jun 14 by Churchman |
It was blindingly obvious before Brexit that the economic hit would be catastrophic. I could see no other outcome at the time.
Article 50 was signed by May at the end of March 2017. She didn’t have to do that. It was already clear there were political problems with Northern Ireland before you get to the point that the only Brexit team that had been formed was DExEU. They were at that time a small team and there to deal with the negotiation and political side.
They had no idea whatsoever what the economic impact would be. Nor did they have the skills to negotiate their way out of their own bathrooms. The odd thing is that it was only after March 17 teams were formed to deal with the physical impact. One team for example started with eight people in April 17 and was at over 160 by July 19.
A problem was that nobody had a clue how the economy worked, what the impact might be, importing exporting, licensing, pilot and lorry driver time, IT, agri products, visas, signage, Felixstowe, Immingham, relationships with peer ports, Eurotunnel, BIPs, contingency planning, etc etc etc, literally everything from pallets to processes. It took months to work out and every moth looked worse than the last. Yet the government carried on.
Not only were specific project teams formed but just about every government department project was shelved or put on hold. For some like DEFRA, it was even worse. Under Austerity cuts there were no project teams. The unproductive ‘dead wood’ (see Francis Maude 2010) had been booted out. They were not alone.
Enter contractors from PwC and others. who paid for all this? The Taxpayer. Literally money no object. Money found. It had to be. The internet says implementation alone cost £3tn It’s why I say when the govt bleat about no money, they’re telling whoppers.
The more the impact was examined the worse it got. Pandoras Box. What ‘no deal’ in reality meant was no food, no water, no electricity, no transport, petrol, flights etc - a complete inability to function. Social impact? That’s obvious. Ministers went nuts and actually were in denial most of the time.
Only the Select Committee Chairpeople really got it. As late as 2018 the Cabinet were called to Chequers on a Sunday to have explained to them what a Customs Union and Single Market was. They didn’t know/didn’t want to.
The problem of Northern Ireland was never solved. It never could be. The only solution was to end the Brexit nonsense. That gave the government the perfect get out in my view (threat to Good Friday Agreement, break up of the U.K. etc), but they ignored it.
A considerable amount of work went on behind the scenes to mitigate the worst and by March 2019 there would at least be some basic things like food in the shops. When Johnson talked of an over ready deal, he implied that somehow he’d negotiated something good. The actual content of the deal was mostly about keeping the country functioning. Work done long before he wobbled in.
A lot of people did some phenomenal work on this but will never get the credit they deserve. A lot was done in secret, out of the public eye; much of it really dull stuff the media were never going to get excited about anyway. Much of the media stuff was wrong, made up, half truths - but that’s what media do.
In conclusion, we are very lucky the country functions at all. The negative effect on the U.K. will only worsen, but there is a solution. Rejoin the single market (that the U.K. was instrumental in creating (Thatcher of all lizards) and Customs Union. Whatever the cost, it’ll be worth it economically, politically and socially.
Apologies for the rant. [Post edited 14 Jun 15:24]
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The stats are largely and pretty irrelevant due to the fact that since brexit you have had a once a century worldwide shut down due to a global pandemic and now 2 major wars. So largely pretty hard to determine still if brexit was good or bad. It stopped legal migration and free movement from within the EU but has no effect on illegal immigration. | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:29 - Jun 14 with 2168 views | Churchman |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:21 - Jun 14 by badadski |
The stats are largely and pretty irrelevant due to the fact that since brexit you have had a once a century worldwide shut down due to a global pandemic and now 2 major wars. So largely pretty hard to determine still if brexit was good or bad. It stopped legal migration and free movement from within the EU but has no effect on illegal immigration. |
If you stick barriers in the way of 50% of your trade the outcome can never be good. Add on unnecessary labelling, delays at ports which threaten not just perishable products, but livestock you have a problem. Immediate cost increases and delays to through trade from/to Eire have only one effect. Negative.
Businesses that trade with the rest of the world were used to the processes. Businesses that only dealt with EU were not. 50 forms to fill in etc - a small business in particular isn’t going to bother. In Europe, they’ve been progressively moving their markets away from the U.K. effect on the U.K.? Inflationary.
I could go on endlessly about this but I think I’ve done enough of that. But believe me, Brexit is bad in just about every way, economically and politically in my view. | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:32 - Jun 14 with 2152 views | StokieBlue |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:21 - Jun 14 by badadski |
The stats are largely and pretty irrelevant due to the fact that since brexit you have had a once a century worldwide shut down due to a global pandemic and now 2 major wars. So largely pretty hard to determine still if brexit was good or bad. It stopped legal migration and free movement from within the EU but has no effect on illegal immigration. |
That's clearly not true though, we have comparable countries within the EU who have had the same events and have clearly faired better as the statistics show. We also have other countries outside the EU who have faired better.
Legal migration from other countries outside the EU went through the roof, certainly not what was promised by the Vote Leave gang.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:38 - Jun 14 with 2120 views | Churchman |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:32 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
That's clearly not true though, we have comparable countries within the EU who have had the same events and have clearly faired better as the statistics show. We also have other countries outside the EU who have faired better.
Legal migration from other countries outside the EU went through the roof, certainly not what was promised by the Vote Leave gang.
SB |
The vote Leave gang had no idea what they were talking about. Not an ounce. Even the amount scribbled on the bus was wrong. It was actually under estimated but it hardly mattered. They’d conveniently forgotten about what we got back financially and of course untold benefits from which quantifying financially could never be done. | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:31 - Jun 14 with 1949 views | grow_our_own |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:14 - Jun 14 by Churchman |
It was blindingly obvious before Brexit that the economic hit would be catastrophic. I could see no other outcome at the time.
Article 50 was signed by May at the end of March 2017. She didn’t have to do that. It was already clear there were political problems with Northern Ireland before you get to the point that the only Brexit team that had been formed was DExEU. They were at that time a small team and there to deal with the negotiation and political side.
They had no idea whatsoever what the economic impact would be. Nor did they have the skills to negotiate their way out of their own bathrooms. The odd thing is that it was only after March 17 teams were formed to deal with the physical impact. One team for example started with eight people in April 17 and was at over 160 by July 19.
A problem was that nobody had a clue how the economy worked, what the impact might be, importing exporting, licensing, pilot and lorry driver time, IT, agri products, visas, signage, Felixstowe, Immingham, relationships with peer ports, Eurotunnel, BIPs, contingency planning, etc etc etc, literally everything from pallets to processes. It took months to work out and every moth looked worse than the last. Yet the government carried on.
Not only were specific project teams formed but just about every government department project was shelved or put on hold. For some like DEFRA, it was even worse. Under Austerity cuts there were no project teams. The unproductive ‘dead wood’ (see Francis Maude 2010) had been booted out. They were not alone.
Enter contractors from PwC and others. who paid for all this? The Taxpayer. Literally money no object. Money found. It had to be. The internet says implementation alone cost £3tn It’s why I say when the govt bleat about no money, they’re telling whoppers.
The more the impact was examined the worse it got. Pandoras Box. What ‘no deal’ in reality meant was no food, no water, no electricity, no transport, petrol, flights etc - a complete inability to function. Social impact? That’s obvious. Ministers went nuts and actually were in denial most of the time.
Only the Select Committee Chairpeople really got it. As late as 2018 the Cabinet were called to Chequers on a Sunday to have explained to them what a Customs Union and Single Market was. They didn’t know/didn’t want to.
The problem of Northern Ireland was never solved. It never could be. The only solution was to end the Brexit nonsense. That gave the government the perfect get out in my view (threat to Good Friday Agreement, break up of the U.K. etc), but they ignored it.
A considerable amount of work went on behind the scenes to mitigate the worst and by March 2019 there would at least be some basic things like food in the shops. When Johnson talked of an over ready deal, he implied that somehow he’d negotiated something good. The actual content of the deal was mostly about keeping the country functioning. Work done long before he wobbled in.
A lot of people did some phenomenal work on this but will never get the credit they deserve. A lot was done in secret, out of the public eye; much of it really dull stuff the media were never going to get excited about anyway. Much of the media stuff was wrong, made up, half truths - but that’s what media do.
In conclusion, we are very lucky the country functions at all. The negative effect on the U.K. will only worsen, but there is a solution. Rejoin the single market (that the U.K. was instrumental in creating (Thatcher of all lizards) and Customs Union. Whatever the cost, it’ll be worth it economically, politically and socially.
Apologies for the rant. [Post edited 14 Jun 15:24]
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In conclusion, we are very lucky the country functions at all. The negative effect on the U.K. will only worsen, but there is a solution. Rejoin the single market (that the U.K. was instrumental in creating (Thatcher of all lizards) and Customs Union. Whatever the cost, it’ll be worth it economically, politically and socially.
""
Gammon will scream "sovrinty" if we're SM & CU rule-takers without being members of the EU. Brexit politicians will say we're a "vassal state". I tend to sympathise with them on this. It'd be non-voting rejoin, which is much worse than the real thing. There's no substitute for rejoin and regaining the second-most influence of any country in the EU. [Post edited 14 Jun 12:32]
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:37 - Jun 14 with 1935 views | eireblue |
If you take a point in time, the summer of 2012, and the Olympic opening ceremony celebrating the history and achievements of the U.K. and compare it to today.
Not sure the U.K. is in a better place after appeasing the people who thought celebrating the Industrial Revolution, NHS and the impact the U.K. had on cultural was woke. |  | | |
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