| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote 09:16 - Jun 14 with 4866 views | StokieBlue |
Now we are nearing 10 years since Brexit the vote and there is a good set of data from which we can draw some decent conclusions.
https://www.theguardian.com/po
The general conclusion is that it's been a bit of a disaster. There are some nice charts in the article but the main points are below:
- A decade later, the pound has never returned above its pre-Brexit level, hitting British holidaymakers in the pocket. From close to $1.50 against the dollar and €1.31 against the euro just after polling closed, the pound stands at $1.34 and €1.15.
- According to the Office for Budget Responsibility, the independent Treasury watchdog, the UK is on track to suffer a 4% hit to national income over a 15-year period.
- According to Bloom, employment in the UK is between 3% and 4% lower than it would have been under a remain scenario.
- Investment in the UK has fallen behind other countries by 18%
- Brexit has left the UK economy 6-8% smaller than other countries
The sooner a party can pluck up the courage to run on a pro-EU ticket the better. If eventually decide to join again without our veto and the pound then so be it.
With AI coming along, the rise in NEETs and the possible weakening of NATO, we don't need to be giving ourselves these other disadvantages as well. Not to mention a generation who have been denied the opportunities that freedom of movement would have allowed them.
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 9:29]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:39 - Jun 14 with 882 views | Trequartista |
All your points are financial. An argument for Brexit is that people want a financial union but not a political union with the EU, which it was becoming more of with each Treaty. |  |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:47 - Jun 14 with 861 views | Freddies_Ears |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:39 - Jun 14 by Trequartista |
All your points are financial. An argument for Brexit is that people want a financial union but not a political union with the EU, which it was becoming more of with each Treaty. |
Except, there is and never will be a political union. Every single member state has the option to leave. It's just that we were the only country stupid enough to do so. |  | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:50 - Jun 14 with 860 views | StokieBlue |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:39 - Jun 14 by Trequartista |
All your points are financial. An argument for Brexit is that people want a financial union but not a political union with the EU, which it was becoming more of with each Treaty. |
If that was the main argument why was Boris driving around the country in a red bus with 350m on the side? Shouldn't have mattered if people wanted a financial but not political union.
I think saying finance wasn't a main driver is revisionist. It's also a huge issue because the countries finances are a mess and have worsened since Brexit.
Can you outline these political treaties that have been a burden on other similar countries within the EU?
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:56 - Jun 14 with 837 views | jaykay |
i want to know what happened to the fag packet ? |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 13:02 - Jun 14 with 827 views | J2BLUE |
It's inevitable that we return but I don't think it will be for a decade or so. With immigration being such a big issue for many people (just a statement of fact) I don't think we return until freedom of movement has been dramatically changed or the older generation is replaced by younger voters.
If they were holding a vote next week, I think Farage would be all over something like this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art I assume the legal status would be for Spain only but could easily be the first step on the path to citizenship allowing them the freedom to move to any EU country. |  | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 13:28 - Jun 14 with 767 views | BlueBadger |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:21 - Jun 14 by badadski |
The stats are largely and pretty irrelevant due to the fact that since brexit you have had a once a century worldwide shut down due to a global pandemic and now 2 major wars. So largely pretty hard to determine still if brexit was good or bad. It stopped legal migration and free movement from within the EU but has no effect on illegal immigration. |
'Look, if you ignore the facts, Brexit has been great'. |  |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 13:40 - Jun 14 with 736 views | Swansea_Blue |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 13:02 - Jun 14 by J2BLUE |
It's inevitable that we return but I don't think it will be for a decade or so. With immigration being such a big issue for many people (just a statement of fact) I don't think we return until freedom of movement has been dramatically changed or the older generation is replaced by younger voters.
If they were holding a vote next week, I think Farage would be all over something like this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art I assume the legal status would be for Spain only but could easily be the first step on the path to citizenship allowing them the freedom to move to any EU country. |
Spain seems to have got its act together. It seemed to be very buoyant when we were there last summer - loads of building work going on, great public transport links, shops and tourist places all rammed. But yes, it’s not hard to imagine the response to that plan here. |  |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 13:48 - Jun 14 with 718 views | balcombeblue |
I'm quite on the middle of the Brexit debate, at least economically. Two things I would say based on the article:
Correlation and causation are not the same thing.
Univariate analysis on complex Economic systems are not particularly insightful.
Also, nt sure hw rejoining would help. The EUs issues with productivity, fiscal management and balancing the single currency are only getting worse. | | | |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 13:58 - Jun 14 with 697 views | balcombeblue |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 13:28 - Jun 14 by BlueBadger |
'Look, if you ignore the facts, Brexit has been great'. |
If you run the same analysis of Real GDP growth between France, Germany and UK since 2016 you get a very different picture. I'd be slightly wary of interpreting many of the graphs in the linked article. | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 14:03 - Jun 14 with 689 views | Leaky |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:30 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
Thanks, amended for precision as I should have said vote.
That makes it even worse as it's all happened in even less time.
Do you care to tackle any of the points raised or you prefer to snipe about something that was pretty obvious anyway?
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 9:30]
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Yes, I personally havnt noticed any difference . My personal choice would have sytay8 as the Common Market. If it wasn't why fix it |  | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 14:03 - Jun 14 with 692 views | Freddies_Ears |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 13:02 - Jun 14 by J2BLUE |
It's inevitable that we return but I don't think it will be for a decade or so. With immigration being such a big issue for many people (just a statement of fact) I don't think we return until freedom of movement has been dramatically changed or the older generation is replaced by younger voters.
If they were holding a vote next week, I think Farage would be all over something like this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art I assume the legal status would be for Spain only but could easily be the first step on the path to citizenship allowing them the freedom to move to any EU country. |
It's people's inability to bother to check out the facts. Irregular immigration is tiny and falling. The last govt though allowed many times more immigrants than had ever come when we were in the EU, as the Guardian's graph shows.
You can be in the EU and still be nasty to foreigners, as many countries have proved.
Meantime, enjoy those 3-hour passport queues this and every future summer and risk of missed flights. | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 14:04 - Jun 14 with 689 views | Leaky |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 09:30 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
Thanks, amended for precision as I should have said vote.
That makes it even worse as it's all happened in even less time.
Do you care to tackle any of the points raised or you prefer to snipe about something that was pretty obvious anyway?
SB [Post edited 14 Jun 9:30]
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Yes, I personally havnt noticed any difference . My personal choice would have stay as the Common Market. If it wasn't why fix it | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 14:26 - Jun 14 with 664 views | Mullet |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 14:04 - Jun 14 by Leaky |
Yes, I personally havnt noticed any difference . My personal choice would have stay as the Common Market. If it wasn't why fix it |
You’ve not noticed a difference? How? |  |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 14:33 - Jun 14 with 664 views | grow_our_own |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:50 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
If that was the main argument why was Boris driving around the country in a red bus with 350m on the side? Shouldn't have mattered if people wanted a financial but not political union.
I think saying finance wasn't a main driver is revisionist. It's also a huge issue because the countries finances are a mess and have worsened since Brexit.
Can you outline these political treaties that have been a burden on other similar countries within the EU?
SB |
The "Brexit was about politics, not money" debate:
- "Sovrinty!!!"
- "Can you outline these political treaties that have been a burden on other similar countries within the EU?"
- <tumbleweed>
Bear in mind that we significantly shaped that political union and EU has no influence on major areas of public policy: taxation, defence, education, healthcare, criminal justice, etc. Can't have a single market without buying into some shared laws. | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 16:06 - Jun 14 with 588 views | Churchman |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:31 - Jun 14 by grow_our_own |
""
In conclusion, we are very lucky the country functions at all. The negative effect on the U.K. will only worsen, but there is a solution. Rejoin the single market (that the U.K. was instrumental in creating (Thatcher of all lizards) and Customs Union. Whatever the cost, it’ll be worth it economically, politically and socially.
""
Gammon will scream "sovrinty" if we're SM & CU rule-takers without being members of the EU. Brexit politicians will say we're a "vassal state". I tend to sympathise with them on this. It'd be non-voting rejoin, which is much worse than the real thing. There's no substitute for rejoin and regaining the second-most influence of any country in the EU. [Post edited 14 Jun 12:32]
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Yes, some will scream ‘sovereignty’. But these are the same people that wanted a ‘clean break’; true no deal Brexit. The consequences of that were at the time off the scale. At one point a Contingency plan was written called Yellowhammer. It was leaked.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
But it was a working version, not the final iteration. The actual projections were not what was published. You may guess the rest.
The concept of no deal was so insane it beggared belief. The more you looked at it the more crazy it got at every level. And the more deluded and actually disinterested brexiteers like Reece Mogg got. |  | | |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 16:08 - Jun 14 with 588 views | Leaky |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 14:26 - Jun 14 by Mullet |
You’ve not noticed a difference? How? |
Going into the EU never changed my, as leaving never changed my | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 16:08 - Jun 14 with 587 views | Leaky |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 14:26 - Jun 14 by Mullet |
You’ve not noticed a difference? How? |
Going into the EU never changed my, as leaving never changed my life | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 16:35 - Jun 14 with 552 views | Mullet |
| It's approaching 10 years of Brexit on 16:08 - Jun 14 by Leaky |
Going into the EU never changed my, as leaving never changed my life |
Really? So you're completely unaffected by the economic hardships, cost of living, passport restrictions, right-wing hatespeech, political division and various other factors that have changed in the last decade? | |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 18:57 - Jun 14 with 489 views | armchaircritic59 |
I was one who nearly took a coin into the voting station as I was torn. In the end I opted to stay. In the event we made one of the biggest mistakes in this countries history, to think I was close to being part of it isn't great. Still, " Little Englanders " rule, hey? |  | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 19:24 - Jun 14 with 442 views | badadski |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 11:32 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
That's clearly not true though, we have comparable countries within the EU who have had the same events and have clearly faired better as the statistics show. We also have other countries outside the EU who have faired better.
Legal migration from other countries outside the EU went through the roof, certainly not what was promised by the Vote Leave gang.
SB |
A comparable county is not the same, stats you can manipulate all you want - I voted to remain but could see both arguments for and against. Government can show fancy stats and fancy graphs of improvement until they are blue in the face but if it i am working more hours, paying more taxes and having less and and less take home money after paying bills year on year, then I am sorry, but it’s all irrelevant. For me, both the last 2 governments, one of which I voted for have not improved things as far as I can see with my own eyes and evidence of in my wallet and look to be making things incrementally worse not better. | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 19:33 - Jun 14 with 429 views | armchaircritic59 |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 18:57 - Jun 14 by armchaircritic59 |
I was one who nearly took a coin into the voting station as I was torn. In the end I opted to stay. In the event we made one of the biggest mistakes in this countries history, to think I was close to being part of it isn't great. Still, " Little Englanders " rule, hey? |
Down voter must be a a " Little Englander ". hope you're enjoying paradise. | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 22:02 - Jun 14 with 353 views | StokieBlue |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 19:24 - Jun 14 by badadski |
A comparable county is not the same, stats you can manipulate all you want - I voted to remain but could see both arguments for and against. Government can show fancy stats and fancy graphs of improvement until they are blue in the face but if it i am working more hours, paying more taxes and having less and and less take home money after paying bills year on year, then I am sorry, but it’s all irrelevant. For me, both the last 2 governments, one of which I voted for have not improved things as far as I can see with my own eyes and evidence of in my wallet and look to be making things incrementally worse not better. |
I disagree, a comparable country is very much how something is benchmarked.
However I am now confused what point you're trying to make, your last point was saying it wasn't a financial decision and now you're highlighting what a financial mess it's caused.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 22:09 - Jun 14 with 330 views | Trequartista |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:47 - Jun 14 by Freddies_Ears |
Except, there is and never will be a political union. Every single member state has the option to leave. It's just that we were the only country stupid enough to do so. |
European law started becoming enshrined in British law so I would call that political union | |
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| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 22:10 - Jun 14 with 319 views | J2BLUE |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 19:33 - Jun 14 by armchaircritic59 |
Down voter must be a a " Little Englander ". hope you're enjoying paradise. |
Downvoted the bit about considering taking a coin in. | | | |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 22:13 - Jun 14 with 300 views | Trequartista |
| It's approaching 10 years since the Brexit vote on 12:50 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue |
If that was the main argument why was Boris driving around the country in a red bus with 350m on the side? Shouldn't have mattered if people wanted a financial but not political union.
I think saying finance wasn't a main driver is revisionist. It's also a huge issue because the countries finances are a mess and have worsened since Brexit.
Can you outline these political treaties that have been a burden on other similar countries within the EU?
SB |
It wasn't the main argument, it wasn't the main driver, I didn't say political treaties were a burden, your reply bears no relation at all to what I said. | |
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