| ‘Two Year Kier’ 05:25 - Jun 23 with 15588 views | Benters |
Heard that one this morning  |  |
| |  |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:41 - Jun 25 with 1340 views | StokieBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:16 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
Ah yes, because of course the only options are much more money or sod it”…
I’d probably look at much more significant private investment. The French model has appeal. It’s also a similar country in population and demographics. I’d probably ask for supplementary payments like an excess to disincentivise use. I’d maybe consider pushing hard to people the benefits of private healthcare and see it as an investment for those who can afford it. We could consider reforming access to the NHS by removing the GP bottleneck? |
I've not read all of your posts in this thread but in the ones I have you've now pushed two policies which essentially mirror Reform.
You've dressed them up in a lot of words but at the core that's what they are. You've also cast doubt on the analysis around a reduction in small boat migration.
What a coincidence.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:53 - Jun 25 with 1292 views | J2BLUE |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 15:42 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
There is a suggestion in your post veering towards Austerity v2?
The NHS is fundamental to this. We’ve spent significantly more since 2010 in both real terms and as a percentage of gov spending. Can we say that the service meets the ever increasing expectations?
I have very little confidence that a significant rise in taxes will improve public services in any meaningful way.
Welfare spending is the only other meaningful pot that can be cut? |
There's no free lunch. We either save money, raise money or we borrow and then that share of outgoings towards servicing the debt increases.
We should look to cut welfare if we can do so by getting people off benefits by offering other support. I am not against welfare but it's a massive expense. If we can cut it intelligently we should do so. We don't have to be cruel. We can see if things would genuinely help people. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:57 - Jun 25 with 1280 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:41 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
I've not read all of your posts in this thread but in the ones I have you've now pushed two policies which essentially mirror Reform.
You've dressed them up in a lot of words but at the core that's what they are. You've also cast doubt on the analysis around a reduction in small boat migration.
What a coincidence.
SB |
No need to apologise.
Which two policies are they? It’s not impossible that across the range of issues I have some alignment with reform.
I didn’t cast doubt on the data, but is did on the causal conclusions. That has nothing at all to do with reform.
It mirrors the reflections of a number of centre right thinkers on this forum. That if you propose centre right opinions then the labels start to come pretty quickly. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:24 - Jun 25 with 1163 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 15:42 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
They have outlined a number of policies which are evidence of what could happen, certainly enough to form a hypothesis. Furthermore we can expand they hypothesis by looking at the very poor job they are doing in local government.
The real issue here is that you, a Reform voter, don't know what policies they have. Past "stop the boats" you have no idea what they would actually do as many people have tried to debate it with you or ask you for policies and you never reply.
SB |
‘Smash the gangs’ righto! | |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:26 - Jun 25 with 1152 views | GlasgowBlue |
This thread is still going in? How many minds changed? |  |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:28 - Jun 25 with 1151 views | naa |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 16:39 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
Works in France, so yes
You can make the argument that a slice of money goes now to funding state run inefficiency.
The NHS already has significant private investment (accelerated by New Labour). I just think it’s the worst of both worlds.
Your ideas? |
The notion that state run is inefficient and private efficient doesn't ring true to my lived experience.
State run organisations tend to be very large and it's that that leads to inefficiency, not the fact it's state run.
I work for a large private company and the idea that it is super efficient is laughable.
Adding a private mix would have to be done very carefully and not just assume private equals better.
After all, as has been pointed out, private companies have to make a profit, state ones don't.
The US system is fully private and I'm not sure anyone would suggest it is efficient.
I agree just throwing money at the NHS won't work, but running to the privatisation route is not one I'd advocate. Just look at the services we did privatise, working a treat for us aren't they? |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:29 - Jun 25 with 1149 views | NthQldITFC |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:26 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
This thread is still going in? How many minds changed? |
 |  |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:31 - Jun 25 with 1136 views | naa |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:26 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
This thread is still going in? How many minds changed? |
Welcome to every Internet forum ever. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:51 - Jun 25 with 1096 views | eireblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:28 - Jun 25 by naa |
The notion that state run is inefficient and private efficient doesn't ring true to my lived experience.
State run organisations tend to be very large and it's that that leads to inefficiency, not the fact it's state run.
I work for a large private company and the idea that it is super efficient is laughable.
Adding a private mix would have to be done very carefully and not just assume private equals better.
After all, as has been pointed out, private companies have to make a profit, state ones don't.
The US system is fully private and I'm not sure anyone would suggest it is efficient.
I agree just throwing money at the NHS won't work, but running to the privatisation route is not one I'd advocate. Just look at the services we did privatise, working a treat for us aren't they? |
In the the example used, France. The government tends to spend more per capita than the U.K. Which is correlated with better health outcomes. The French tend to spend more on admin, so it isn’t more efficient.
The argument is often made that certain health systems are better. Health outcomes correlate to health spending, irrespective of who pays and spends.
And I made this point somewhere else, running a government service, is not the same as running a private business.
You don’t run an A&E department based on marketing, SEO, competition and building brand loyalty. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:06 - Jun 25 with 1058 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:26 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
This thread is still going in? How many minds changed? |
Not mine Sir  | |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:13 - Jun 25 with 1036 views | naa |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:51 - Jun 25 by eireblue |
In the the example used, France. The government tends to spend more per capita than the U.K. Which is correlated with better health outcomes. The French tend to spend more on admin, so it isn’t more efficient.
The argument is often made that certain health systems are better. Health outcomes correlate to health spending, irrespective of who pays and spends.
And I made this point somewhere else, running a government service, is not the same as running a private business.
You don’t run an A&E department based on marketing, SEO, competition and building brand loyalty. |
Agree.
As to your last point, I was merely talking about efficiency, as that is often touted as a benefit of privatisation. The company I work for is not run efficiently. It's too large, with too many departments all semi competing and not co operating, with poor communication, and people doing pointless jobs that could easily be automated.
I think that translates to the analogy I was trying to make. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:51 - Jun 25 with 974 views | reusersfreekicks |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:06 - Jun 25 by Benters |
Not mine Sir |
That would require a mind in the first place |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:51 - Jun 25 with 973 views | StokieBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:24 - Jun 25 by Benters |
‘Smash the gangs’ righto! |
I would say "do one you Neanderthal" but recent research puts them far more cognitively capable than you.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:54 - Jun 25 with 968 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:26 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
This thread is still going in? How many minds changed? |
you're welcome to try and rescue benters from his conspiracy theorist cult. he might listen to you! | |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:58 - Jun 25 with 965 views | StokieBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:26 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
This thread is still going in? How many minds changed? |
If you don't think posting changes minds why do you spend more time on here than almost any other poster asserting your viewpoints trying to change peoples minds?
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:01 - Jun 25 with 959 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:51 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
I would say "do one you Neanderthal" but recent research puts them far more cognitively capable than you.
SB |
Charming. | |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:10 - Jun 25 with 943 views | brazil1982 |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:01 - Jun 25 by Benters |
Charming. |
Probably the heat buh |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:13 - Jun 25 with 934 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:10 - Jun 25 by brazil1982 |
Probably the heat buh |
You are right it can make people a bit niggly. Buh. | |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:15 - Jun 25 with 928 views | StokieBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:10 - Jun 25 by brazil1982 |
Probably the heat buh |
Nah, meant every word.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:18 - Jun 25 with 923 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 21:58 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
If you don't think posting changes minds why do you spend more time on here than almost any other poster asserting your viewpoints trying to change peoples minds?
SB |
Cant see what you are replying to- but the key thing to remember for people is that you probably don't change the mind of the person you are arguing with. But you might well steer others who are viewing, away from the same rabbit holes. | |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 23:04 - Jun 25 with 874 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:15 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
Nah, meant every word.
SB |
Good I’m glad you detest me. | |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 23:07 - Jun 25 with 858 views | StokieBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 23:04 - Jun 25 by Benters |
Good I’m glad you detest me. |
I don't detest you.
Go back and read your post, it got exactly the response it deserved.
The playing the victim act is pathetic, you're totally in control of what you post on here.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 04:02 - Jun 26 with 678 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 23:07 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
I don't detest you.
Go back and read your post, it got exactly the response it deserved.
The playing the victim act is pathetic, you're totally in control of what you post on here.
SB |
I think you do.
I stand by what I say.
Have a good day.
BB. | |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:24 - Jun 26 with 601 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:58 - Jun 25 by Benters |
But I haven’t posted any thing like that.
And can you seriously tell me every Government has never bent the figures a bit to help there position?
I don’t mean just Labour I mean all Parties they are all the same.
Have a good day. |
Two points.
1) You claim all parties 'bend the figures to help their position' but choose to blindly believe everything that comes out of Reform. Why can't you consider that Reform might also just be saying whatever the most gullible in society are likely to believe?
2) Why does it matter if it's the 'board legends' who present the evidence to you? Perhaps one day you should try spending some time looking at the source, thinking about it critically, perhaps even doing a bit of further research to form your own conclusion. [Post edited 26 Jun 8:28]
|  |
| |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:28 - Jun 26 with 578 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:28 - Jun 25 by naa |
The notion that state run is inefficient and private efficient doesn't ring true to my lived experience.
State run organisations tend to be very large and it's that that leads to inefficiency, not the fact it's state run.
I work for a large private company and the idea that it is super efficient is laughable.
Adding a private mix would have to be done very carefully and not just assume private equals better.
After all, as has been pointed out, private companies have to make a profit, state ones don't.
The US system is fully private and I'm not sure anyone would suggest it is efficient.
I agree just throwing money at the NHS won't work, but running to the privatisation route is not one I'd advocate. Just look at the services we did privatise, working a treat for us aren't they? |
I agree about the efficiency point, private companies can certainly have their issues.
We are part way down the private/public route, I am suggesting that it could be explored further.
I am not sure it's that clear cut that private companies would prefer lower quality care either. The NHS pays out a staggering amount in compensation claims each year. The recent case in Nottingham maternal care being a good example.
Following the details of the Lucy Letby case, that too could have very significant ramifications for the NHS when the CCRC concludes it's review. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
