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You’ve posted some nonsense that somebody posted on the internet. I’ve claimed it’s bs then you expect me to use some weird categorisation from it. So, not exactly surprising. It’s just absurd.
You’ve posted some nonsense that somebody posted on the internet. I’ve claimed it’s bs then you expect me to use some weird categorisation from it. So, not exactly surprising. It’s just absurd.
Do you think Starmer is an honest principled figure?
https://novaramedia.com/2021/0 Keir Starmer Is Just As Dishonest As Boris Johnson Opinion Keir Starmer Is Just As Dishonest As Boris Johnson While the prime minister is honest about lying, the Labour leader still claims to be telling the truth. by Aaron Bastani 29 September 2021 Keir Starmer at Labour conference in Brighton. Keir Starmer at Labour conference in Brighton. (REUTERS/Hannah McKay) A strange prospect has reared its head in recent months, its arrival so unlikely that even the most dogged of Starmer-sceptics could never have predicted it.
Over the weekend, as Labour’s annual conference got underway, this previously faint suspicion suddenly came through in high definition: Keir Starmer – a man who constantly appeals to decency and principle – appears to be no more honest than Boris Johnson. Indeed one could argue Starmer is less trustworthy than a prime minister whose calling card is caddish misbehaviour.
This may sound absurd, like the nonsensical grumblings of a leftist with a grudge, but allow me to explain.
When it comes to honesty there are three kinds of people. The first are honest and upstanding, they generally stick to their word and try not to deceive others. Although, of course, deceit may happen on occasion, they try their best to keep dishonesty to a minimum. When they stray they admit it.
The second kind are dishonest people who are open about the content of their character – individuals who are, in short, ‘honest liars’. Paradigmatic here is Silvio Berlusconi, the former Italian prime minister, who once claimed to be the “Jesus Christ of politics” because he makes sacrifices “for everyone” only to later concede, when investigated on charges of corruption, that he was not a saint and “you’ve all understood that”. In this regard, the media tycoon was the template for Donald Trump and Boris Johnson, with all three never guilty of hypocrisy – that cardinal sin in politics – because they never claimed to be honest in the first place. Unsurprisingly, many find such personalities reprehensible, yet others view them as a refreshing change and often amusing. Sure they lie, but everyone in politics does. That they are at least open about their moral failings means they aren’t really politicians at all.
The final category is the dishonest figure who claims to be a beacon of truth. While the likes of Berlusconi and Johnson are incapable of hypocrisy (and by extension shame) the problem for this kind of person – think Hilary Clinton or Matteo Renzi – is that, once caught out, the incongruity of their words and actions renders them entirely inauthentic. It is in this final category that Starmer now finds himself.
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"This may sound absurd, like the nonsensical grumblings of a leftist with a grudge." Unfortunately, that's exactly how it sounds to me.
I'm not a Starmer fanboy, and I agree that he treated those on the left of the party badly, but I think some have lost all sense of perspective.
Do you think Starmer is an honest principled figure?
I do, yes. I don’t think he was a great prime minister though. But to claim he has less integrity than Johnson is just absurd. And them your evidence of this assertion is just somebody saying it as if it’s true with no evidence or facts.
I do, yes. I don’t think he was a great prime minister though. But to claim he has less integrity than Johnson is just absurd. And them your evidence of this assertion is just somebody saying it as if it’s true with no evidence or facts.
Can you tell me where he was honest and principled during his tenure as Labour party leader?
Do you think Starmer is an honest principled figure?
I do. Like Theresa May and Gordon Brown, and unlike Truss, Johnson etc, I believe Starmer had a great sense of public service and was highly principled. Like May, he was a very poor communicator.
Don't cry because it's over; smile because it happened.
An improvement from an incredibly low bar. His greatest success for me was nationalising the trains and freezing fares- exactly the kind of policy which directly improves lives and standards of living. On health, I’m always sceptical on government figures - there’s numerous examples of disingenuous reporting (eg Blair sending everyone to uni so they don’t count as NEET, reporting growth when per capita we’ve contracted). Regardless, waiting times in my area have INCREASED.
For me as something of a libertarian, and with a distrust of those in power, his authoritarian policies were deeply troubling. Locking up protesters, mandatory ID, removing some trials by jury is state overreach.
He never recovered from the 30 seconds he spent in Southport.
Can you tell me where he was honest and principled during his tenure as Labour party leader?
I think he was principled and honest during his entire tenure. Can you give me some examples of whay you are referring to that are not taken from some random nonsense from 2021?
I think he was principled and honest during his entire tenure. Can you give me some examples of whay you are referring to that are not taken from some random nonsense from 2021?
His sacking of Ollie Robbins was not principled and was a desperate attempt to save his premiership.
And it made his praise of the civil service yesterday rather hollow.
I would have expected better of a lawyer and former civil servant but he definitely had a ruthless streak.
I think he was principled and honest during his entire tenure. Can you give me some examples of whay you are referring to that are not taken from some random nonsense from 2021?
The two-child benefit cap? Postponing a number of local elections? The Madelson appointment? The vast number of luxury goods and freebies? Blocking Burnham in a number of safe seats?
The party polled 17% in the local elections under his leadership. A strong indication.......
I do, yes. I don’t think he was a great prime minister though. But to claim he has less integrity than Johnson is just absurd. And them your evidence of this assertion is just somebody saying it as if it’s true with no evidence or facts.
Indeed.
Also notable that to the extent one can say he broke pledges, he did so with the aim of doing what was in the national interest (rightly or wrongly) rather than personal grifting. The difference is night and day between him and someone like Johnson.
The two-child benefit cap? Postponing a number of local elections? The Madelson appointment? The vast number of luxury goods and freebies? Blocking Burnham in a number of safe seats?
The party polled 17% in the local elections under his leadership. A strong indication.......
Oh dear.
Benefit cap? What was dishonest?
Local elections had nothing to do with electoral issues and was entirely appropriate given the mergers / new organisation happening. Mandelson- was an intriguing and potential very successful way of dealing with Trump. Mandelson certainly had the skills and experience for the role. The vetting info was not given to Starmer beforehand... What "vast number of luxury goods and freebies"? Blocked Burnham once. As he and the committee were absolutely entitiled to do- did so openly, whether you agree it or not.
The two-child benefit cap? Postponing a number of local elections? The Madelson appointment? The vast number of luxury goods and freebies? Blocking Burnham in a number of safe seats?
The party polled 17% in the local elections under his leadership. A strong indication.......
Sir Keir Starmer declares gifts and freebies totalling more than £100,000 - the highest of any MP
Sky News' Westminster Accounts project reveals the prime minister has declared more gifts and freebies than any other MP, with his total in gifts, benefits, and hospitality topping £100,000 since December 2019.
Local elections had nothing to do with electoral issues and was entirely appropriate given the mergers / new organisation happening. Mandelson- was an intriguing and potential very successful way of dealing with Trump. Mandelson certainly had the skills and experience for the role. The vetting info was not given to Starmer beforehand... What "vast number of luxury goods and freebies"? Blocked Burnham once. As he and the committee were absolutely entitiled to do- did so openly, whether you agree it or not.
It was dishonest for Starmer to say recently that removing the benefits cap was his finest achievement when the whip was withdrawn from several MPs who voted for it during the King's Speech.
Sir Keir Starmer declares gifts and freebies totalling more than £100,000 - the highest of any MP
Sky News' Westminster Accounts project reveals the prime minister has declared more gifts and freebies than any other MP, with his total in gifts, benefits, and hospitality topping £100,000 since December 2019.
The two-child benefit cap? Postponing a number of local elections? The Madelson appointment? The vast number of luxury goods and freebies? Blocking Burnham in a number of safe seats?
The party polled 17% in the local elections under his leadership. A strong indication.......
'And look at what we’ve achieved in just two years: an economy that is stronger, growing faster than our peers; wages rising faster than inflation in every single month since we came to power; investment secured; infrastructure being built; an end to austerity; with the fastest fall in NHS waiting lists for 17 years; the biggest improvement in rights for workers and renters in a generation; the biggest uplift in defence spending since the Cold War; small boat crossings falling; asylum hotels closing; protecting young people from social media; and half a million children being lifted out of poverty because of the choices that I made.
Our reputation in the world restored, with Britain once again standing up for decency, respect, and the rule of law. Securing trade deals, standing with Ukraine, standing up for our values, and rebuilding our relationship with our allies in Europe.'
From Keir's email to me yesterday, I think one or two people may have gotten teh same...
It was dishonest for Starmer to say recently that removing the benefits cap was his finest achievement when the whip was withdrawn from several MPs who voted for it during the King's Speech.
You may disagree, but thats not dishonest. Its a change of position. It might even be a bit hypocritical. But not dishonest and crucially, not for personal gain.
You arent seriously suggesting that, on matter of integrity, he is equivalent to Johnson (as claimed above) are you?!
You’ve posted some nonsense that somebody posted on the internet. I’ve claimed it’s bs then you expect me to use some weird categorisation from it. So, not exactly surprising. It’s just absurd.
Leaving aside the specific example of Starmer, surely you can see that progressive politicians who make claim to high principles are much more likely to a) be accused of hypocrisy and b) disappoint people than those who simply appeal to naked self interest, or sectional interest?
Which is the gist of that article.
There was a subversion campaign against Corbyn from the Labour Centrists.
There was a purge of Corbynistas once Starmer became leader.
Whether you believe that was a hypocritical, nakedly self-serving power grab by a man who claimed the "decent and principled" mantle, or believe it was a necessary act for the good of the party and the nation, comes down to interpretation.
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