| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref 09:39 - Jul 6 with 2470 views | RIPbobby |
The only thing I would question is does var have the right to call the red card. Whilst I think it was a red card, although the player was unlucky with the way his leg rolls up the ball. Can var just call up anything in any part of the match and say... Red card. I get that they are allowed to upgrade a yellow to a red, but the ref deemed this not a foul live.
Wasn't the 'big pushy on chappers v Leicester not allowed to be called by var because it wasn't deemed a foul live by the ref? Were the rules different? I genuinely am not sure what var can and can't do now? |  | | |  |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:41 - Jul 6 with 2091 views | LeoMuff |
Frustrating as group stages were reffed very well, but last night and Brazil Norway was back to dubious VAR calls and overly lenient refs. I thought the on field decisions were supposed to stand unless clear and obvious error ? |  |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:43 - Jul 6 with 2078 views | Swansea_Blue |
The VAR can pick up red card offences missed by the ref, but only to bring it to the ref’s attention. The ref then has to review the incident and make the final call (I believe). |  |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:46 - Jul 6 with 2026 views | bsw72 |
VAR cannot make the decision, they advise that the referee should review, hence he goes to the screen.
The red card was not debatable, the ref should have been able to see it and make the decision on field. The mexico penalty was a tougher call - clear and obvious is debatable, and that is where VAR has the problem, but it was not that disimilar to the one we got against Croatia. |  | | |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:51 - Jul 6 with 2006 views | Coastalblue |
Hard to argue about any of the big decisions last night, and in the circumstances I don't think the ref did a bad job.
While I don't think the Kane incident should be a penalty, it does appear as though under current guidelines it is and just have to accept it. Whether VAR should have intervened at that point s a different argument however. |  |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:52 - Jul 6 with 1980 views | StokieBlue |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:43 - Jul 6 by Swansea_Blue |
The VAR can pick up red card offences missed by the ref, but only to bring it to the ref’s attention. The ref then has to review the incident and make the final call (I believe). |
Once they have called the ref to the screen they very rarely change their minds. Essentially in most cases VAR are making the decision and the referee is just rubber-stamping it.
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:53 - Jul 6 with 1974 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:46 - Jul 6 by bsw72 |
VAR cannot make the decision, they advise that the referee should review, hence he goes to the screen.
The red card was not debatable, the ref should have been able to see it and make the decision on field. The mexico penalty was a tougher call - clear and obvious is debatable, and that is where VAR has the problem, but it was not that disimilar to the one we got against Croatia. |
It’s a lot more clear than some of the penalty calls we’ve had where the defender got the absolutely faintest of touches on the ball before taking out the attacker. The Norway one last night and there was another one recently too (I can’t remember which game). I think they both had different outcomes.
It’s a bit of a farce. I don’t mind the Kane one too much, as although you’d likely get away with it pre-VAR he did clearly kick the player (although didn’t stop the player playing the ball…, so maybe not clear cut after all?).
It’s these ones where they use slo mo to reduce decisions about a fast, physical game to the finest margins that frustrate me. | |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:54 - Jul 6 with 1971 views | StokieBlue |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:51 - Jul 6 by Coastalblue |
Hard to argue about any of the big decisions last night, and in the circumstances I don't think the ref did a bad job.
While I don't think the Kane incident should be a penalty, it does appear as though under current guidelines it is and just have to accept it. Whether VAR should have intervened at that point s a different argument however. |
I think he let the Mexicans get away with a lot of stuff. They were in his face all the time, calling for cards and harsh punishment, they were yelling at England players who were on the ground injured. Quite a lot of clear simulation from them as well.
He could have stamped it all out but seemed intimidated by the crowd to me and once they saw he wasn't going to do anything about it they just ramped it up with the crowd behind them.
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:57 - Jul 6 with 1913 views | bsw72 |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:53 - Jul 6 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s a lot more clear than some of the penalty calls we’ve had where the defender got the absolutely faintest of touches on the ball before taking out the attacker. The Norway one last night and there was another one recently too (I can’t remember which game). I think they both had different outcomes.
It’s a bit of a farce. I don’t mind the Kane one too much, as although you’d likely get away with it pre-VAR he did clearly kick the player (although didn’t stop the player playing the ball…, so maybe not clear cut after all?).
It’s these ones where they use slo mo to reduce decisions about a fast, physical game to the finest margins that frustrate me. |
That is the issue with super slo-mo. Another example, not footy, but have you seen the "catch" by Sophie Ecclestone that was overruled in yesterday's Women's T20 WC Final. 100% a clean catch that when slowed frame by frame introduced doubt and was given not out.
If it had been a closer final, could have proven very controversial. | | | |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:58 - Jul 6 with 1892 views | bsw72 |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:54 - Jul 6 by StokieBlue |
I think he let the Mexicans get away with a lot of stuff. They were in his face all the time, calling for cards and harsh punishment, they were yelling at England players who were on the ground injured. Quite a lot of clear simulation from them as well.
He could have stamped it all out but seemed intimidated by the crowd to me and once they saw he wasn't going to do anything about it they just ramped it up with the crowd behind them.
SB |
Yes, although I would imagine having 70K fanatical Mexicans on your back would introduce an element of doubt to your decision making . . . | | | |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 10:08 - Jul 6 with 1808 views | Steve_M |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:57 - Jul 6 by bsw72 |
That is the issue with super slo-mo. Another example, not footy, but have you seen the "catch" by Sophie Ecclestone that was overruled in yesterday's Women's T20 WC Final. 100% a clean catch that when slowed frame by frame introduced doubt and was given not out.
If it had been a closer final, could have proven very controversial. |
Yes, that was an appalling piece of umpiring. Perry knew she was out and was virtually off the pitch. That it didn't matter in the context of the match is a moot point, just no way that decision should be being made. |  |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 10:10 - Jul 6 with 1780 views | Guthrum |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:58 - Jul 6 by bsw72 |
Yes, although I would imagine having 70K fanatical Mexicans on your back would introduce an element of doubt to your decision making . . . |
It's probably not easy to think straight just with that level of constant noise beating down on you. |  |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 10:41 - Jul 6 with 1639 views | southnorfolkblue |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:52 - Jul 6 by StokieBlue |
Once they have called the ref to the screen they very rarely change their minds. Essentially in most cases VAR are making the decision and the referee is just rubber-stamping it.
SB |
This ref has form this tournament though for not being swayed by VAR. He was called over in a previous match and stuck with his original decision.
Tbf it was a red card. |  |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 11:18 - Jul 6 with 1536 views | farkenhell |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:54 - Jul 6 by StokieBlue |
I think he let the Mexicans get away with a lot of stuff. They were in his face all the time, calling for cards and harsh punishment, they were yelling at England players who were on the ground injured. Quite a lot of clear simulation from them as well.
He could have stamped it all out but seemed intimidated by the crowd to me and once they saw he wasn't going to do anything about it they just ramped it up with the crowd behind them.
SB |
That's right. Also, as I've just posted on another thread, he was very inconsistent. Waved away lots of clear fouls, then punished Saka for the softest contact, from which Mexico scored. | | | |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 11:19 - Jul 6 with 1535 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 10:41 - Jul 6 by southnorfolkblue |
This ref has form this tournament though for not being swayed by VAR. He was called over in a previous match and stuck with his original decision.
Tbf it was a red card. |
Not convinced it's red. No intent, gets there first and bounces off the ball causing the boot to go high. Not over turnable, but it could easily be justified as a yellow.
However in this wc the rule is that if you have a clear record or social media thinks there might not be intent, then it must be suspended.... | |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 11:33 - Jul 6 with 1454 views | LeoMuff |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 11:19 - Jul 6 by redrickstuhaart |
Not convinced it's red. No intent, gets there first and bounces off the ball causing the boot to go high. Not over turnable, but it could easily be justified as a yellow.
However in this wc the rule is that if you have a clear record or social media thinks there might not be intent, then it must be suspended.... |
If I was reffing it’s a yellow, won the ball but caught him late , its hardly Dorgu on Hutch from last time in the prem. Contact but hardly dangerous, seen plenty get away with worse this WC.
As for the pen, contact was minimal and won the ball , they were throwing themselves around every time in the box looking for it and for some reason VAR found it.
Ref was really poor | |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 11:41 - Jul 6 with 1408 views | Trequartista |
It can look at a possible red card offence at any time I think.
I thought the referee did well last night - one of the hardest games to referee and he kept it under control. |  |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:17 - Jul 6 with 1245 views | BseaBlue |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 11:41 - Jul 6 by Trequartista |
It can look at a possible red card offence at any time I think.
I thought the referee did well last night - one of the hardest games to referee and he kept it under control. |
Really? I thought he was massively inconsistent. He never booked any of the Mexicans when they were surrounding the penalty spot/Kane when ours was given but booked one of ours for doing it to them.
He gave some soft fouls (i.e Saka for their first goal) but then let some go that were blatant. I did think the Kane incident was a pen but then is it a clear and obvious error? For me, it isnt because you couldn't really tell he had fouled him from the Ref's angle and not all contact is a foul anyway. If that was given, you probably couldn't argue it, but it wasnt and I think its a fair debate that it wasn't an 'obvious foul'
He also let the 6 (Lira I think) repeatedly shout in his face and at the other officials. I think it was Kane that clearly mouthed to the ref at one point 'No more Ref' because he was constantly doing it.
Then add in the 11 minutes......That was a complete joke. Not really many injuries in the second half and the VAR checks were done really quickly. It all felt like the pressure of the crowd affected the occassion. [Post edited 6 Jul 12:18]
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:34 - Jul 6 with 1153 views | EastTownBlue |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:17 - Jul 6 by BseaBlue |
Really? I thought he was massively inconsistent. He never booked any of the Mexicans when they were surrounding the penalty spot/Kane when ours was given but booked one of ours for doing it to them.
He gave some soft fouls (i.e Saka for their first goal) but then let some go that were blatant. I did think the Kane incident was a pen but then is it a clear and obvious error? For me, it isnt because you couldn't really tell he had fouled him from the Ref's angle and not all contact is a foul anyway. If that was given, you probably couldn't argue it, but it wasnt and I think its a fair debate that it wasn't an 'obvious foul'
He also let the 6 (Lira I think) repeatedly shout in his face and at the other officials. I think it was Kane that clearly mouthed to the ref at one point 'No more Ref' because he was constantly doing it.
Then add in the 11 minutes......That was a complete joke. Not really many injuries in the second half and the VAR checks were done really quickly. It all felt like the pressure of the crowd affected the occassion. [Post edited 6 Jul 12:18]
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As is standard these days, both penalties took an age to complete. | | | |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:40 - Jul 6 with 1110 views | Trequartista |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:17 - Jul 6 by BseaBlue |
Really? I thought he was massively inconsistent. He never booked any of the Mexicans when they were surrounding the penalty spot/Kane when ours was given but booked one of ours for doing it to them.
He gave some soft fouls (i.e Saka for their first goal) but then let some go that were blatant. I did think the Kane incident was a pen but then is it a clear and obvious error? For me, it isnt because you couldn't really tell he had fouled him from the Ref's angle and not all contact is a foul anyway. If that was given, you probably couldn't argue it, but it wasnt and I think its a fair debate that it wasn't an 'obvious foul'
He also let the 6 (Lira I think) repeatedly shout in his face and at the other officials. I think it was Kane that clearly mouthed to the ref at one point 'No more Ref' because he was constantly doing it.
Then add in the 11 minutes......That was a complete joke. Not really many injuries in the second half and the VAR checks were done really quickly. It all felt like the pressure of the crowd affected the occassion. [Post edited 6 Jul 12:18]
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He didn't get everything right but there was just so much going on I think it was commendable to stay reasonably neutral and keep control of the game, unlike in the Paraguay game.
I thought it would be 10 minutes added. There were 2 goals, 2 var interventions, multiple subs and a couple of injuries and the advert drinks break. The var interventions do take quite a lot of time. | |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:43 - Jul 6 with 1092 views | eirannach_gorm |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:52 - Jul 6 by StokieBlue |
Once they have called the ref to the screen they very rarely change their minds. Essentially in most cases VAR are making the decision and the referee is just rubber-stamping it.
SB |
I'm assuming that is where the ' clear and obvious' comes in. Example being the French penalty that the ref never saw and was flagged by VAR. | | | |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:58 - Jul 6 with 1028 views | Bugs |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:43 - Jul 6 by eirannach_gorm |
I'm assuming that is where the ' clear and obvious' comes in. Example being the French penalty that the ref never saw and was flagged by VAR. |
Just heard on the post-match 'clear and obvious' is no longer the term used if it goes to VAR. I have no idea what term it's been replaced with. |  | | |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 13:02 - Jul 6 with 1007 views | Zx1988 |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 09:53 - Jul 6 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s a lot more clear than some of the penalty calls we’ve had where the defender got the absolutely faintest of touches on the ball before taking out the attacker. The Norway one last night and there was another one recently too (I can’t remember which game). I think they both had different outcomes.
It’s a bit of a farce. I don’t mind the Kane one too much, as although you’d likely get away with it pre-VAR he did clearly kick the player (although didn’t stop the player playing the ball…, so maybe not clear cut after all?).
It’s these ones where they use slo mo to reduce decisions about a fast, physical game to the finest margins that frustrate me. |
I don't necessarily disagree with the Kane one, but the slo-mo footage makes for interesting viewing.
Kane makes contact with the player's non-standing leg. The player then proceeds to place said leg on the floor, and weight-bear on it whilst collapsing forwards.
More than a little divey. | |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 13:03 - Jul 6 with 1001 views | Coastalblue |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:58 - Jul 6 by Bugs |
Just heard on the post-match 'clear and obvious' is no longer the term used if it goes to VAR. I have no idea what term it's been replaced with. |
For the benefit of the tournament | |
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| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 13:03 - Jul 6 with 999 views | badadski |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 12:43 - Jul 6 by eirannach_gorm |
I'm assuming that is where the ' clear and obvious' comes in. Example being the French penalty that the ref never saw and was flagged by VAR. |
Personally I thought the referee made the right decisions, only bad thing he was doing was letting the Mexicans get In his face too many times that it allowed them to protest every call. The red card was a red card, it was reckless and uncontrolled with studds showing. Penalty against Kane maybe a little bit of a soft one but in the circumstances there was no way it was not going to be given. I was concerned when we wen our pen that it would be taken away as the ball was headed onto kanes arm for the final touch on the knock down, no body really mentioned it at the time.
So all in all I thought ref was fair, it was a cracking game and worth staying up for the all nighter, luckily I booked the morning off so now only just getting up for work | | | |
| Tuchel wasn't happy with the ref on 14:13 - Jul 6 with 846 views | Illinoisblue |
It’s irrelevant now but how did the Mexico keeper not get a yellow for either the foul on Gordon or the subsequent timewasting and gamesmanship? |  |
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