| Attack on Berlin Pride 22:25 - Jul 25 with 6669 views | Zx1988 |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
My heart goes out to all those affected, and to all those in the LGBTQIA+ community for whom the world perhaps feels a little less safe this evening.
My wife and I were at Norwich Pride this afternoon, and seeing this news sent a chill down my spine. [Post edited 25 Jul 22:30]
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 18:39 - Jul 27 with 986 views | positivity |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 18:34 - Jul 27 by chantryblueboy |
Deaths motivated by religious extremism are classed as terrorism, so yes that covers them all
I am bored of making a clear point which you avoid so won’t be replying further |
deaths not motivated by religious extremism are not classed as terrorism, but are far more prevalent. ask the families affected, what the main problem is. it's the outcome, not the claimed ideology
you've not made a clear point, i've asked what your point is, and what your solution is, and you've failed to answer. | |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 19:01 - Jul 27 with 920 views | Mullet |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 18:02 - Jul 27 by chantryblueboy |
The root cause of this violence is religious extremism. As was pointed out in the post you replied to, it is far more prevalent in Islam than other religions. You chose to make a point that members of other religions also kill people, although they don’t justify it in the name of their religion anywhere near as regularly as Islamists do
And I could have guessed that you weren’t a pro-gun Yank - I thought that would get across why the mental health argument is a flawed one |
I think you’ve got it arse about face there. The root causes are war, poverty, resource access etc. religious extremism tends to exploit that and “puts a gun in the hand” if these people who are lost, angry and dangerous.
That’s why radicalisation happens, people don’t start that way they finish that way and there are multiple steps and reasons along the way.
Whether it’s self immolating Buddhist monks in Nepal, neo nazi trad Christian’s in America or whoever else, religion is just the final layer of violence. |  |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 19:03 - Jul 27 with 914 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 18:39 - Jul 27 by positivity |
deaths not motivated by religious extremism are not classed as terrorism, but are far more prevalent. ask the families affected, what the main problem is. it's the outcome, not the claimed ideology
you've not made a clear point, i've asked what your point is, and what your solution is, and you've failed to answer. |
you seem determined to deny / down play that islamist extremism /terrorism has been the major source of terrorist threat in the uk and europe in recent years. why don't you want to be precise about it? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 19:06 - Jul 27 with 908 views | Benters |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 18:24 - Jul 27 by noggin |
I wasn't talking to you. |
It’s a public forum you are talking to everyone 🤓 |  |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 19:13 - Jul 27 with 894 views | RadioOrwell |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 18:07 - Jul 27 by noggin |
Extremism is the problem, not Islam. |
52% of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
32% think that apostates should be killed.
It's Islam, and not just the extremists. |  | | |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 19:27 - Jul 27 with 843 views | Mullet |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 19:13 - Jul 27 by RadioOrwell |
52% of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
32% think that apostates should be killed.
It's Islam, and not just the extremists. |
That’s a decade old face to face survey so has a few practical limitations. 1000 Muslims were surveyed face to face according to google. https://www.theguardian.com/uk
While I’ve no doubt homophobia is high in Muslim communities (I’ve definitely seen and experienced instances of it occurring amongst peers) how much comes from the mosque and how much comes from parents is like trying to separate ice and water.
Had it been done anonymously and written down you’d no doubt get a different response. Likewise all of the findings there are things I’ve seen and heard from white British parents and pupils in a multicultural area.
It’s not that your stats are wrong, just that context and detail are sorely lacking to say it represents Muslims in this country. There’s no detail on how representative the sample was by age, gender, geography etc.
I’ve worked for years with a gay Muslim teacher, and his fellow Muslims in the staff body never showed him any sort of unkindness or rejection fwiw. Likewise every Muslim mate I’ve had up here has been pretty liberal - maybe it’s the insular groups who feel safer in their own community that push these trends and narratives on both sides? That’s an uncomfortable reality in my experience. | |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 20:16 - Jul 27 with 807 views | noggin |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 19:06 - Jul 27 by Benters |
It’s a public forum you are talking to everyone 🤓 |
Did somebody say something? |  |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 20:24 - Jul 27 with 784 views | noggin |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 19:13 - Jul 27 by RadioOrwell |
52% of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
32% think that apostates should be killed.
It's Islam, and not just the extremists. |
"52% of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal."
I grew up in Britain in the 70s. What do you think the stats were then for the native population? Just because some people think homosexuality should be illegal, doesn't mean they want to murder gay people. | |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 23:02 - Jul 27 with 684 views | RadioOrwell |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 20:24 - Jul 27 by noggin |
"52% of UK Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal."
I grew up in Britain in the 70s. What do you think the stats were then for the native population? Just because some people think homosexuality should be illegal, doesn't mean they want to murder gay people. |
Nice strawman. | | | |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:06 - Jul 28 with 554 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 19:03 - Jul 27 by lowhouseblue |
you seem determined to deny / down play that islamist extremism /terrorism has been the major source of terrorist threat in the uk and europe in recent years. why don't you want to be precise about it? |
You are very close to spreading Islamophobia. Islam isn't the problem, it's the extremists that are the problem. And in any other religion/non-religious people. Violence and hatred are the things we need to focus on, and why they rise up. Not the particular religion these people misinterpret. |  |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:11 - Jul 28 with 546 views | StokieBlue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:06 - Jul 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You are very close to spreading Islamophobia. Islam isn't the problem, it's the extremists that are the problem. And in any other religion/non-religious people. Violence and hatred are the things we need to focus on, and why they rise up. Not the particular religion these people misinterpret. |
Very close?
He's miles past the point in my view, he's literally declared Islam the issue.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:14 - Jul 28 with 518 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:11 - Jul 28 by StokieBlue |
Very close?
He's miles past the point in my view, he's literally declared Islam the issue.
SB |
Well yeah, I was trying to be polite. There's a few in this thread. | |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:37 - Jul 28 with 505 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:11 - Jul 28 by StokieBlue |
Very close?
He's miles past the point in my view, he's literally declared Islam the issue.
SB |
No he hasn’t. He has used the words “islamist extremism / terrorism”. He hadn’t once used the word “Islam”.
Islamist
in British English
(ˈɪzləmɪst IPA Pronunciation Guide )
adjective
1. supporting or advocating Islamic fundamentalism
noun
2. a supporter or advocate of Islamic fundamentalism
Islam
(ɪzlɑːm IPA Pronunciation Guide , US ɪslɑːm IPA Pronunciation Guide )
1. uncountable noun
Islam is the religion of the Muslims, which was started by Mohammed.
2. uncountable noun
Some people use Islam to refer to all the countries where Islam is the main religion.
...relations between Islam and the West.
Islamism is not a form of the Muslim faith or an expression of Muslim piety. It’s political ideology that strives to derive legitimacy from Islam. Extreme islamism takes that political ideology one step further by carrying out acts of terror. Islamism is dystopian ideology that distorts religion to fit its anti West, anti Jewish and anti liberal agenda.
For example. All of the major media outlets, including the BBC, describe the recent attack as an alleged "Islamist terror attack". And the German police described the attack as “likely an "Islamist terror attack"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/liv
And the suspect as belonging to an “Islamist scene”.
I think that’s very unfair to say Lowhouse has “ literally declared Islam the issue”. Maybe read a few articles on the difference between Islam and extreme Islamist the come back and edit your post.
Edit. Odd downvote SB. You pride yourself on dealing in facts and evidence. Where has Lowhouse posted that Islam is the issue? [Post edited 28 Jul 7:49]
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:50 - Jul 28 with 482 views | StokieBlue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:14 - Jul 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Well yeah, I was trying to be polite. There's a few in this thread. |
Been a long day for me already but I see you were replying to lowhouse and I actually meant RadioOrwell.
Apologies for the confusion. I've not read lowhouse posts as he's a disingenuous poster and I have no interest in engaging with him.
As for GB reply, I've told him I'm not engaging with him anymore so his post is a total waste of his time as far as I'm concerned.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:01 - Jul 28 with 423 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:50 - Jul 28 by StokieBlue |
Been a long day for me already but I see you were replying to lowhouse and I actually meant RadioOrwell.
Apologies for the confusion. I've not read lowhouse posts as he's a disingenuous poster and I have no interest in engaging with him.
As for GB reply, I've told him I'm not engaging with him anymore so his post is a total waste of his time as far as I'm concerned.
SB |
Yeah that's why lowhouse is very close and RadioOrwell is well over.
Either way it's unhelpful, because thickos will just think "Islam". As I said above, we need to focus on the violence and terror, not argue the toss about which religions foster the most. That just breeds more hate and division and perpetuates the whole cycle. | |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:13 - Jul 28 with 397 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:06 - Jul 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You are very close to spreading Islamophobia. Islam isn't the problem, it's the extremists that are the problem. And in any other religion/non-religious people. Violence and hatred are the things we need to focus on, and why they rise up. Not the particular religion these people misinterpret. |
don't post nonsense. i haven't referred to islam. i have referred to islamist extremism / terrorism. if you don't know the difference that's entirely your problem not mine.
and posting facts - which is all i have done - is not spreading islamophobia. if it were then all the anti-terrorism forces in the uk and europe would be guilty of it.
in recent years the major source of terrorism in the uk and europe has come from islamist extremism / terrorism. that's a simple and indisputable statement of fact. if saying it upsets you for some reason - not my problem. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:14 - Jul 28 with 391 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:50 - Jul 28 by StokieBlue |
Been a long day for me already but I see you were replying to lowhouse and I actually meant RadioOrwell.
Apologies for the confusion. I've not read lowhouse posts as he's a disingenuous poster and I have no interest in engaging with him.
As for GB reply, I've told him I'm not engaging with him anymore so his post is a total waste of his time as far as I'm concerned.
SB |
ahhh, do the nasty posters disagree with you.  | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:16 - Jul 28 with 374 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:11 - Jul 28 by StokieBlue |
Very close?
He's miles past the point in my view, he's literally declared Islam the issue.
SB |
you need to improve your reading skills. pompous and completely wrong is not a good look. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:23 - Jul 28 with 346 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 07:50 - Jul 28 by StokieBlue |
Been a long day for me already but I see you were replying to lowhouse and I actually meant RadioOrwell.
Apologies for the confusion. I've not read lowhouse posts as he's a disingenuous poster and I have no interest in engaging with him.
As for GB reply, I've told him I'm not engaging with him anymore so his post is a total waste of his time as far as I'm concerned.
SB |
Not so much of a waste of my time that you
a) downvoted my post, and
b) corrected your initial accusation against Lowhouse and aimed it at somebody else. | |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:30 - Jul 28 with 325 views | positivity |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:23 - Jul 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Not so much of a waste of my time that you
a) downvoted my post, and
b) corrected your initial accusation against Lowhouse and aimed it at somebody else. |
ro said "islam is the problem, not the extremists"
is he talking complete, dangerous nonsense?
a simple yes or no will suffice | |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:35 - Jul 28 with 311 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:01 - Jul 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah that's why lowhouse is very close and RadioOrwell is well over.
Either way it's unhelpful, because thickos will just think "Islam". As I said above, we need to focus on the violence and terror, not argue the toss about which religions foster the most. That just breeds more hate and division and perpetuates the whole cycle. |
Is it not helpful to understand why there is more of an issue with radicalisation than elsewhere? That’s not saying Islam is inherently any more violent than any other religion. But when our own security services say radical Islam represents 75pc of their caseload (not even per capita), surely it’s worthwhile understanding why that’s the case?
Again, some posters probably have crossed the line, there’s no need for hatred. FWIW I’m not particularly a fan of any religion in this day and age. But I think it’s important to understand why radical Islam is disproportionately a terrorism threat - then we can tackle the root cause (which is not the religion, but presumably spreaders of hate). | | | |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:37 - Jul 28 with 302 views | lowhouseblue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:23 - Jul 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Not so much of a waste of my time that you
a) downvoted my post, and
b) corrected your initial accusation against Lowhouse and aimed it at somebody else. |
i find this thread fascinating. as ever twtd is an education. people find certain facts so uncomfortable / inconvenient that they twist themselves in knots to deny / ignore / excuse / down play them.
it's like saying: "the ipswich home shirt is blue"
and getting the response: "actually, it's a colour. there are lots of colours, all colours can be used for football shirts. the issue here is that it's a colour but we don't need to focus on any specific colour. parts of the shirt are white. the away shirt is a creamy colour." | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 10:12 - Jul 28 with 198 views | BlueBoots |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:22 - Jul 27 by Powrigan |
I just think if people choose to move to Europe, they should respect European values and culture and not go around killing people for going against what they believe.
I feel that would be a good start. |
Shame to have to call out other types of prejudice on a thread relating to a homophobic attack, but the attacker Abdul Ballout was a 21-year-old German-born citizen, so a bit of a fail to try to use him to push your anti-immigrant views as he didn't move to Europe.
Then again, as you stated "He will probably be arrested and removed from Germany, then be welcomed to the UK with open arms by the usual people." in a post after the attacker had already been shot dead by police, I doubt having facts and information at your disposal would make any difference to your views. |  |
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| Attack on Berlin Pride on 10:26 - Jul 28 with 161 views | eireblue |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 18:09 - Jul 27 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
That is true, but surely it’s not cherry picking, if by MI5’s own numbers 75pc of their terrorism caseload Is Islamic extremism. It does appear to be disproportionate even prior to the current conflict.
I’m not sure what you can taken from that, or what the solution is, certainly more hatred isn’t the answer but surely looking at the root causes. I suspect once again you’d come to the conclusion of nefarious influences on social media driving extremism (but I have no evidence for that). It may well be more complicated than that but surely it’s important to try and understand the radicalisation. |
That stat comes from the 2024 annual speech made by the head of MI5
“ The headline split of our counter terrorist work remains roughly 75% Islamist extremist, 25% extreme right-wing terrorism. But under that headline, much has shifted. Straightforward labels like “Islamist terrorism” or “extreme right wing” don’t fully reflect the dizzying range of beliefs and ideologies we see.”
In the same speech,
“ Which brings me to my next point, a predictable one but no less crucial for that: it’s hard to overstate the centrality of the online world in enabling today’s threats.
In both Islamist extremist and extreme right-wing terrorism, lone individuals, indoctrinated online, continue to make up most of the threats. In dark corners of the internet, talk is cheap; sorting the real plotters from armchair extremists is an exacting task.”
So there is evidence that “social media” is driving that.
The latest speech, 2025 also talks about Iran.
“ MI5 has tracked more than twenty potentially lethal Iran-backed plots in just the one year since I last stood at this podium.
The UK was among the first to call out this wave of Iranian transnational aggression. But we are far from alone.
A few weeks ago my Australian counterpart exposed the Iranian hand behind a series of antisemitic attacks there, including against a café and a synagogue. Dutch colleagues revealed a failed assassination attempt in the Netherlands – and an earlier one in Spain.
In a collective public response to this shared threat, fourteen nations, including the UK, together condemned Iran’s efforts to kill, kidnap and harass in Europe and North America.” |  | | |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 13:31 - Jul 28 with 51 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Attack on Berlin Pride on 08:13 - Jul 28 by lowhouseblue |
don't post nonsense. i haven't referred to islam. i have referred to islamist extremism / terrorism. if you don't know the difference that's entirely your problem not mine.
and posting facts - which is all i have done - is not spreading islamophobia. if it were then all the anti-terrorism forces in the uk and europe would be guilty of it.
in recent years the major source of terrorism in the uk and europe has come from islamist extremism / terrorism. that's a simple and indisputable statement of fact. if saying it upsets you for some reason - not my problem. |
You have clearly linked the religion to terrorismn and are trying to weasle out of it by stating you haven't literally used the word "Islam". It's pathetic, and despite how clever you think you're being, we can all see through it.
No-one's denying the figures, put just posting it's Islamist doesn't achieve anything, and actually spreads more hate and division because less intelligent people just automatically think "Islam" is the problem. That's where Islamophobia is fostered, and why I said you're close to it if not literally spouting it.
The bigger picture is what causes all radicalisation, and as someone says above, the lack of regulation online is a huge factor. Pointing the finger at one religion is all you seem to have done, and then desperately flailed when people rightly point out that at best that's not helpful. | |
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