| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador 07:54 - Aug 12 with 5328 views | StokieBlue |
Their plan is to take all foreign prisoners currently serving time and move them to El Salvador, one of the most brutal prison systems in the world:
https://www.independent.co.uk/
The policies would seem to be getting more deliberately headline catching in order to distract from the financial investigations at the top of the party. First it was ignoring international law with regards to France and now this.
SB [Post edited 12 Aug 9:17]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 14:24 - Aug 12 with 1460 views | positivity |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 14:18 - Aug 12 by BarcaBlue |
Five years later, how many prisoners have been sent to Kosovo?
How much has been spent on upgrading prisons there, admin and legal fees and then dividing that by the number of people deported.
Your figures are far too simplistic.
I just had a quick look and can't find any examples of prisoners moved to Kosovo but plenty of headlines talking about the policy and using it as an example of what could be done in other countries. |
not happening until 2027 at the very earliest, so it's currently x million euros divided by zero, so, even worse than rwanda! |  |
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 14:35 - Aug 12 with 1415 views | J2BLUE |
Buy an island somewhere. Take the worst offenders and Hunger Games them. Winner gets life in a comfortable prison.
Simple. Netflix would buy the rights. |  | | |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 18:06 - Aug 12 with 1314 views | GlasgowBlue |
That's not correct. You posted "Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador"
The article says "Reform UK has been accused of trying to “finance brutality with British taxpayers’ money” after pledging to deport all foreign nationals from Britain’s prisons to countries including El Salvador".
Facts matter.
edit. I see that this has already been pointed out to you. [Post edited 12 Aug 18:07]
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 18:30 - Aug 12 with 1274 views | balcombeblue |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 18:06 - Aug 12 by GlasgowBlue |
That's not correct. You posted "Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador"
The article says "Reform UK has been accused of trying to “finance brutality with British taxpayers’ money” after pledging to deport all foreign nationals from Britain’s prisons to countries including El Salvador".
Facts matter.
edit. I see that this has already been pointed out to you. [Post edited 12 Aug 18:07]
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Depends what side of the argument you are on and what your facts are!
Been a good thread apart from that though. It’s brought some consensus. Namely it’s a difficult problem to solve |  | | |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 18:41 - Aug 12 with 1253 views | positivity |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 14:24 - Aug 12 by positivity |
not happening until 2027 at the very earliest, so it's currently x million euros divided by zero, so, even worse than rwanda! |
i see bluebudgie's back to downvote any facts about his beloved reform.
at least one true believer who can't see through nigel's racism and corruption! | |
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 22:32 - Aug 12 with 1165 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 09:16 - Aug 12 by balcombeblue |
I agree, but that's not what you wrote above. |
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[Post edited 12 Aug 22:54]
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 22:40 - Aug 12 with 1153 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 11:19 - Aug 12 by lazyblue |
Not saying deport to El Salvador but something has to be done with the amount of foreign criminals in UK and gets worse everyday so until more much needed prisons are built then we are going to continue to release unwanted prisoners early back in to society. |
Can we send you first? | | | |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 22:43 - Aug 12 with 1150 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 12:11 - Aug 12 by eireblue |
I think people in Reform would want to deport foreign criminals to El Salvador.
Why check it out if thats what you want to do. They may not end up doing it, they may choose another country, but seems quite clear that would be happy to do that.
Anyhoo, the recent case about the people being allowed early release.
People quite rightly wan them to stay in prison.
Deporting a foreign criminal, doesn’t mean they get to serve their full term in a prison.
It is complex. If a foreign person, say the people that poisoned UK citizens, had been caught and convicted, would you send them back to Russia.
If an Iranian, acting under the orders of Iran, committed a terrorist act, would we send them back to Iran.
Would you want some that violently assaulted gay people in the UK, to be allowed back and walk free in another country.
I think OP is general correct, Reform would want to deport foreign criminals to a Central American prison if they possible could.
Trying to infer that Reform have some nuanced position on this topic is nonsense. [Post edited 12 Aug 12:13]
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Re your last sentence.
That's what they do | | | |
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 22:44 - Aug 12 with 1149 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 18:06 - Aug 12 by GlasgowBlue |
That's not correct. You posted "Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador"
The article says "Reform UK has been accused of trying to “finance brutality with British taxpayers’ money” after pledging to deport all foreign nationals from Britain’s prisons to countries including El Salvador".
Facts matter.
edit. I see that this has already been pointed out to you. [Post edited 12 Aug 18:07]
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Especially when it's someone you are continually arguing with on here.
Less so at other times [Post edited 12 Aug 22:46]
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 03:58 - Aug 13 with 1066 views | Benters |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 10:22 - Aug 12 by Churchman |
Total guess, but given it costs about £60,000 of taxpayers money to keep somebody in prison for a year, if say the planet Tharg offered to take a long term or life prisoner for say £100,000 there’s an obvious financial saving to be had. |
This. |  |
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 07:58 - Aug 13 with 998 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 22:44 - Aug 12 by reusersfreekicks |
Especially when it's someone you are continually arguing with on here.
Less so at other times [Post edited 12 Aug 22:46]
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How odd. You’ve done your usual late night log in to TWTD, replied to both Balcombe and I, then edited both posts completely changing your original replies.
The one aimed at Balcombe referencing Russia was offensive and your edited reply to me makes no sense.
Most people start to wind down at 11.30pm. You always do the opposite. [Post edited 13 Aug 8:16]
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:08 - Aug 13 with 971 views | balcombeblue |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 07:58 - Aug 13 by GlasgowBlue |
How odd. You’ve done your usual late night log in to TWTD, replied to both Balcombe and I, then edited both posts completely changing your original replies.
The one aimed at Balcombe referencing Russia was offensive and your edited reply to me makes no sense.
Most people start to wind down at 11.30pm. You always do the opposite. [Post edited 13 Aug 8:16]
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I prefer to try to stick to making points I hope people accept in good faith, even if they don’t agree.
I wrote in a post the other day that I am liable to personal bias, like we all are, but that I hope others can accept the same fallibility.
People can reply how they wish to. People can see the personal slurs we’ve both had and draw their own conclusions, as well as the refusal of the OP to engage in the discussion. | | | |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:22 - Aug 13 with 903 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:08 - Aug 13 by balcombeblue |
I prefer to try to stick to making points I hope people accept in good faith, even if they don’t agree.
I wrote in a post the other day that I am liable to personal bias, like we all are, but that I hope others can accept the same fallibility.
People can reply how they wish to. People can see the personal slurs we’ve both had and draw their own conclusions, as well as the refusal of the OP to engage in the discussion. |
This is just more stirring though, by you and Glassers. Glassers has just entered the thread to have a pop at Stokers, nothing more, so at least you're a bit better than that. But anyway, the point has been made (a rather small one versus the whole issue), maybe just move on from it now and talk about the real issues of what Reform want to do. |  |
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:35 - Aug 13 with 879 views | balcombeblue |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:22 - Aug 13 by The_Flashing_Smile |
This is just more stirring though, by you and Glassers. Glassers has just entered the thread to have a pop at Stokers, nothing more, so at least you're a bit better than that. But anyway, the point has been made (a rather small one versus the whole issue), maybe just move on from it now and talk about the real issues of what Reform want to do. |
It’s a pretty natural thing that if you get poked you will have a poke back.
You’re right about sticking to the point though and I think in conclusion most have agreed that tackling prison overcrowding needs a range of solutions. This is probably beyond Reform, but the reason they have support is because governments from the main two parties have (to some degree of culpability) failed.
The El Salvador thing is all a trivial nonsense.
Maybe I should start a new political thread for the day! | | | |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:36 - Aug 13 with 880 views | StokieBlue |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:08 - Aug 13 by balcombeblue |
I prefer to try to stick to making points I hope people accept in good faith, even if they don’t agree.
I wrote in a post the other day that I am liable to personal bias, like we all are, but that I hope others can accept the same fallibility.
People can reply how they wish to. People can see the personal slurs we’ve both had and draw their own conclusions, as well as the refusal of the OP to engage in the discussion. |
I withdrew from the debate because my experience of debating with you thus far is you disregard facts that don't suit your narrative. Since then you've called me out a number of times which I have ignored but I'm pretty bored of your disingenuous behaviour.
I was quickly posting in the morning whilst having my first coffee the use of "all" was inaccurate, you seized on that rather than debate the issue in good faith. The fact that Reform and specifically Farage have stated they will send a delegation to El Salvador is in the article, they even name the people they are going to send, yet you've repeatedly said it's nonsense and for headline grabbing purposes only. The only fact we have is they have said they will do it but you dismiss it because it doesn't suit the narrative you're creating.
"Mr Farage said that Reform UK chairman Lee Anderson will visit El Salvador with former prison officer Vanessa Frake within months, as part of talks to see whether the country could house foreign national offenders."
Given that is our sole data point, these statements are disingenuous:
"The headline grab was actually being done by The Independent and the original post rather than Reform."
"The main gripe appears to be the mentioning of El Salvador. This was for headline grabbing reasons. Something Labour would never do……."
Both statements disregard the data point we actually have in favour of your own interpretation.
You did exactly the same thing in the Liddle thread, you cherry picked data that supported your view and despite repeated requests to address the other data you totally ignored it. You might say you debate in "good faith" but there is evidence to support a conclusion to the contrary.
SB [Post edited 13 Aug 8:39]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:53 - Aug 13 with 813 views | balcombeblue |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:36 - Aug 13 by StokieBlue |
I withdrew from the debate because my experience of debating with you thus far is you disregard facts that don't suit your narrative. Since then you've called me out a number of times which I have ignored but I'm pretty bored of your disingenuous behaviour.
I was quickly posting in the morning whilst having my first coffee the use of "all" was inaccurate, you seized on that rather than debate the issue in good faith. The fact that Reform and specifically Farage have stated they will send a delegation to El Salvador is in the article, they even name the people they are going to send, yet you've repeatedly said it's nonsense and for headline grabbing purposes only. The only fact we have is they have said they will do it but you dismiss it because it doesn't suit the narrative you're creating.
"Mr Farage said that Reform UK chairman Lee Anderson will visit El Salvador with former prison officer Vanessa Frake within months, as part of talks to see whether the country could house foreign national offenders."
Given that is our sole data point, these statements are disingenuous:
"The headline grab was actually being done by The Independent and the original post rather than Reform."
"The main gripe appears to be the mentioning of El Salvador. This was for headline grabbing reasons. Something Labour would never do……."
Both statements disregard the data point we actually have in favour of your own interpretation.
You did exactly the same thing in the Liddle thread, you cherry picked data that supported your view and despite repeated requests to address the other data you totally ignored it. You might say you debate in "good faith" but there is evidence to support a conclusion to the contrary.
SB [Post edited 13 Aug 8:39]
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Do you not see the irony in pointing this out in my posts, given you have done exactly the same thing in your posts? As I said, I admit I bring my own biases to what I write, that's sort of inherent in politics. It's not a hard science based on data and facts.
Disingenuous behaviour means acting in a way that is not totally honest, sincere, or open. I do wish you'd stop labelling me and trying to bully my considered and genuinely held views of this board. | | | |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 09:00 - Aug 13 with 786 views | StokieBlue |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:53 - Aug 13 by balcombeblue |
Do you not see the irony in pointing this out in my posts, given you have done exactly the same thing in your posts? As I said, I admit I bring my own biases to what I write, that's sort of inherent in politics. It's not a hard science based on data and facts.
Disingenuous behaviour means acting in a way that is not totally honest, sincere, or open. I do wish you'd stop labelling me and trying to bully my considered and genuinely held views of this board. |
I've not done exactly the same thing. I've not made multiple statements that specifically ignore the evidence pointed out to me, I made a semantic error that I have acknowledged.
Every time you're criticised or someone points out you're ignoring evidence you accuse them of bullying. Is this more "good faith" debating? Looks more like a clear attempt to shut down any challenge to your cherry picking but other posters can make their own judgements.
If there is any bullying here it's your repeated mentioning of me over 3 pages after I stopped posting on the thread in a clear attempt to prod me and draw me back into the thread.
Congratulations, it worked.
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 09:50 - Aug 13 with 709 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 11:13 - Aug 12 by balcombeblue |
Yes, it's discriminatory by definition, but not on the basis of race. Quite the opposite I would say in that it ignores race completely. Being a British citizen is not, quite rightly, defined by race.
Is there any specific reason to oppose the idea of deporting dangerous criminals at the end of their sentences? Or even at the start of them like Australia attempts to do?
I think revoking British citizenship is a dangerous slope. I wouldn't support that. |
"We" already do revoke British citizenship, as noted above the Shamima Begum ruling now provides Judicial Case Law at the highest possible level to support the right of a Home Secretary or similar (depending on how the Home Office and Justice Department are organised in the future) to remove British citizenship from an individual who holds dual nationality, if they are considered a threat to National Security.
This has been openly discussed as a response to those convicted in the Grooming Gang case.
Many will say "Serves them right, they deserve it", as these are exceptionally emotive cases.
But, and this is the key point, it means that a British Citizen, who has dual nationality, who is arrested for a crime, could have their British nationality removed before trial (Begum's was removed while she was still abroad, and she argued for the right to a trial in England, but the Home Secretaries blocked her from returning) then face trial and be sentenced to time in a Salvadorean prison. Meanwhile, their co-defendant who committed the crime with them (and may even have greater culpability) but who is only of British nationality, cannot be sentenced to that particular punishment.
There are obviously White British/American or British/Jamaican etc etc citizens, but the cases in which the matter has been discussed have been involving those who have dual British-Bangladeshi or British-Pakistani citizenship, and so it is likely that, given the messaging of the Reform Party *if* they were to form a Government and implement this policy, it would become racialised.
"We" already deport dangerous Foreign nationals at the end of their sentence, and sometimes arrange for them to serve their sentence in their home country or go there for further criminal trials, but not people who hold (dual or otherwise) British citizenship. Both the removing of the citizenship and the sending abroad for punishment are discriminatory, and application of both by a potential Reform Government Justice Department and Home Office are likely to be focused on specific crimes and ethnicities of perpetrators, adding an element of racial discrimination. | | | |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 10:18 - Aug 13 with 667 views | balcombeblue |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to San Salvador on 09:50 - Aug 13 by ArnoldMoorhen |
"We" already do revoke British citizenship, as noted above the Shamima Begum ruling now provides Judicial Case Law at the highest possible level to support the right of a Home Secretary or similar (depending on how the Home Office and Justice Department are organised in the future) to remove British citizenship from an individual who holds dual nationality, if they are considered a threat to National Security.
This has been openly discussed as a response to those convicted in the Grooming Gang case.
Many will say "Serves them right, they deserve it", as these are exceptionally emotive cases.
But, and this is the key point, it means that a British Citizen, who has dual nationality, who is arrested for a crime, could have their British nationality removed before trial (Begum's was removed while she was still abroad, and she argued for the right to a trial in England, but the Home Secretaries blocked her from returning) then face trial and be sentenced to time in a Salvadorean prison. Meanwhile, their co-defendant who committed the crime with them (and may even have greater culpability) but who is only of British nationality, cannot be sentenced to that particular punishment.
There are obviously White British/American or British/Jamaican etc etc citizens, but the cases in which the matter has been discussed have been involving those who have dual British-Bangladeshi or British-Pakistani citizenship, and so it is likely that, given the messaging of the Reform Party *if* they were to form a Government and implement this policy, it would become racialised.
"We" already deport dangerous Foreign nationals at the end of their sentence, and sometimes arrange for them to serve their sentence in their home country or go there for further criminal trials, but not people who hold (dual or otherwise) British citizenship. Both the removing of the citizenship and the sending abroad for punishment are discriminatory, and application of both by a potential Reform Government Justice Department and Home Office are likely to be focused on specific crimes and ethnicities of perpetrators, adding an element of racial discrimination. |
The Begum case was particularly concerning given she was born in the UK and had never actually visited Bangladesh. I was keen at the time that she be brought back to the UK to stand trial if appropriate. I know that many on the right wanted citizenship revoked, but many others didn't.
The deportation of foreign national offenders is different and given there are 10,000 in UK jails it would be good for this to be expedited. This is the point where I intended to state that I don't see a racial connection, although some dispute that nationality and race are not entirely separate.
I do hope some mix of initiatives can be achieved so that we don't have to release dangerous criminals onto the streets early. Hopefully the justice minister can find a mechanism to block the release of dangerous criminals such as the killers of PC Harper. | | | |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 20:57 - Aug 13 with 520 views | Bigalhunter |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 08:22 - Aug 13 by The_Flashing_Smile |
This is just more stirring though, by you and Glassers. Glassers has just entered the thread to have a pop at Stokers, nothing more, so at least you're a bit better than that. But anyway, the point has been made (a rather small one versus the whole issue), maybe just move on from it now and talk about the real issues of what Reform want to do. |
Indeed.
[Redacted] level of behaviour since being granted parole has quickly morphed back to pre-ban levels of petulant accusations and spite, despite assurances that said ban had afforded him time to re-evaluate priorities.
Disappointing but wholly predictable.
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| Sometimes I giggle about the frothing lunatic who’s put me on ignore and now has to constantly log out to see what I’ve said. Beneath that counterfeit persona lurks the same pitifully desperate egomaniac. | | Poll: | September 2025. Which one? |
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| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 22:54 - Aug 13 with 432 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 07:58 - Aug 13 by GlasgowBlue |
How odd. You’ve done your usual late night log in to TWTD, replied to both Balcombe and I, then edited both posts completely changing your original replies.
The one aimed at Balcombe referencing Russia was offensive and your edited reply to me makes no sense.
Most people start to wind down at 11.30pm. You always do the opposite. [Post edited 13 Aug 8:16]
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Yes though I find Balcombe pretty hard work the Russia thing was a mistake.
Can't remember what I changed your's from but the edited one makes perfect sense and has validity imo. | | | |
| Reform want to deport all foreign prisoners to El Salvador on 00:12 - Aug 14 with 365 views | armchaircritic59 |
Personally I'd rather it was the other way round. |  | | |
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