| Making the opposition look good 15:58 - Sep 6 with 3369 views | Mckenna1263 |
I fear that we have made both United and Liverpool who have been very ropey up until now look far better than they actually are simply by our open style of play and a defence that can be unlocked by a simple through ball. |  | | |  |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:57 - Sep 6 with 684 views | pointofblue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:54 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
I think we will be alright.
More game time together for cms will help
Diop and greaves if thats the season plan. Theyll figure out what each other is doing |
I'd really like us to switch to a back three - maybe a Christmas tree formation - but I accept I might be in the minority with that one! | |
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| Making the opposition look good on 18:01 - Sep 6 with 668 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:57 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
I'd really like us to switch to a back three - maybe a Christmas tree formation - but I accept I might be in the minority with that one! |
I think we will as we progress with the season. But i think we are trying to establish our brand under Oneil and what that looks like. Then you tweak that with role changes once weve got everyone fit and everyone understanding the football.
Some of the football v utd.. we simply did not see from us in 24 imo. Weve just got to iron out stuff. |  |
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| Making the opposition look good on 18:07 - Sep 6 with 648 views | RetroBlue |
I think we just need to tighten up in midfield ( its more about new players to PL in there acclimatising to the pace of the game), and tighten up defensively from the goalkeeper's dealing with shots ( nstead of this continental way of punching it all the time), and playing Diop / O'Shea as a CB pairing. |  |
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| Making the opposition look good on 18:29 - Sep 6 with 606 views | Adams |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:16 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
Your ongoing rants this weekend is that we faced struggling sides which sorry is laughable when both of them havent actually struggled.
Are we now after just 3 games supposed to be on the same level as every established side plus those who finish in the top 6?
Only one top 6 side is currently struggling and thats villa who still havent scored a goal. |
So you're going to ignore my points showing how you got everything wrong?
Where have I said anything about being on the same level as the top six or other established teams? Can you find one post? You can't, as you just made another thing up and then will ignore it when you're called out. You repeatedly use strawman arguments.
All I've ever said was we got our tactics badly wrong and need to make it difficult and make teams work for their goals instead of being so open. All this is true, and every neutral who watched the games agrees.
Man U and Liverpool are both struggling. Everyone knows, and even their fans admit it. They both were very poor in the other two games they played and failed to win. The only game they haven't struggled in is against us. Liverpool hadn't won a game for 6 games until us and are short in many positions.
It would be nice in any future debates if you could keep it to what I'm saying, and not just make stuff up. [Post edited 6 Sep 18:29]
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| Making the opposition look good on 18:41 - Sep 6 with 583 views | grow_our_own |
A lot has been written on this site about Scherpen. The other reason I think we need to cut our losses early with him follows from his lack of acceleration off his line and/or having poor ability to judge through-balls. The more off-his-line mistakes he makes, and he's made two in two games (Liv's second and ManU's fifth) the more tentative he'll be.
Modern teams play with a sweeper-keeper. Watching Arsenal vs Chelsea, Raya is always an option. He plays mid-way in Arsenal's half when they're in possession, and acts as a pivot for their next move. He intercepts through-balls to snuff out danger. I can't see Scherpen ever becoming that player at the moment. Nothing to do with fans being on his back, it's just a consequence of his limitations. I hope he proves me wrong, but I don't want to be relegated again before being proven right like with Muric. The Ipswich tradition of signing a dodgy keeper, who almost single-handedly relegates us every Prem campaign must be broken. [Post edited 6 Sep 18:45]
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| Making the opposition look good on 18:41 - Sep 6 with 584 views | Bluedandy |
The profound negativity of some on this forum is extraordinary.
They already smell disaster because we lost at Old Trafford and to Liverpool who featured three players costing more than £100 million.
It was the same yawn fest last season, each and every time there was a setback, the online apocalyptists spun a narrative of impending failure.
So yes, relegation beckons even though after three games with three points we are 14th in the Premier League table. | | | |
| Making the opposition look good on 18:50 - Sep 6 with 560 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 18:41 - Sep 6 by grow_our_own |
A lot has been written on this site about Scherpen. The other reason I think we need to cut our losses early with him follows from his lack of acceleration off his line and/or having poor ability to judge through-balls. The more off-his-line mistakes he makes, and he's made two in two games (Liv's second and ManU's fifth) the more tentative he'll be.
Modern teams play with a sweeper-keeper. Watching Arsenal vs Chelsea, Raya is always an option. He plays mid-way in Arsenal's half when they're in possession, and acts as a pivot for their next move. He intercepts through-balls to snuff out danger. I can't see Scherpen ever becoming that player at the moment. Nothing to do with fans being on his back, it's just a consequence of his limitations. I hope he proves me wrong, but I don't want to be relegated again before being proven right like with Muric. The Ipswich tradition of signing a dodgy keeper, who almost single-handedly relegates us every Prem campaign must be broken. [Post edited 6 Sep 18:45]
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The one thing I asked for in the summer was when we sign a keeper, lets sign on who's job it is to catch balls, save shots and shout at defenders.
Let's defend in a manner and play out in a way that allows a keeper to be a keeper
The goal keepers who are able to do everything...... we aren't signing them until we pay out £40 mill for the privilege so lets simply their jobs.
We saw in the first game, a bit positive of his was his throws... I don't think we've seen them since that game...
His long kicks are also a positives of his.. we've not made the most of those either as yet
But, clearly coming out is a weakness. the thing is. you are not going to be comfortable with it until you do it. so we've got to go with it.
There were times last season where Sunderlands keeper was mentioned as a weaklink, media etc questioned him.. he became a shining light for them
Let's not ruin another goalkeeper before he's started. | |
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| Making the opposition look good on 19:02 - Sep 6 with 541 views | Adams |
| Making the opposition look good on 18:50 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
The one thing I asked for in the summer was when we sign a keeper, lets sign on who's job it is to catch balls, save shots and shout at defenders.
Let's defend in a manner and play out in a way that allows a keeper to be a keeper
The goal keepers who are able to do everything...... we aren't signing them until we pay out £40 mill for the privilege so lets simply their jobs.
We saw in the first game, a bit positive of his was his throws... I don't think we've seen them since that game...
His long kicks are also a positives of his.. we've not made the most of those either as yet
But, clearly coming out is a weakness. the thing is. you are not going to be comfortable with it until you do it. so we've got to go with it.
There were times last season where Sunderlands keeper was mentioned as a weaklink, media etc questioned him.. he became a shining light for them
Let's not ruin another goalkeeper before he's started. |
A goalkeeper is a hard position to come into a new league, especially in a team with loads of new players who aren't very organised yet. Plus, he's only young.
I have no idea if he's good enough, but he should be given time. | | | |
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| Making the opposition look good on 19:06 - Sep 6 with 528 views | DavoIPB |
I think this is a very accurate post. It was far too easy for Liverpool. Man U were all over us and looked like scoring every attack second half. Watching palace Fulham we are no where even near them for pace and speed of game.
We made a very nervous man U look very good by capitulating. | | | |
| Making the opposition look good on 08:52 - Sep 7 with 430 views | grow_our_own |
| Making the opposition look good on 18:50 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
The one thing I asked for in the summer was when we sign a keeper, lets sign on who's job it is to catch balls, save shots and shout at defenders.
Let's defend in a manner and play out in a way that allows a keeper to be a keeper
The goal keepers who are able to do everything...... we aren't signing them until we pay out £40 mill for the privilege so lets simply their jobs.
We saw in the first game, a bit positive of his was his throws... I don't think we've seen them since that game...
His long kicks are also a positives of his.. we've not made the most of those either as yet
But, clearly coming out is a weakness. the thing is. you are not going to be comfortable with it until you do it. so we've got to go with it.
There were times last season where Sunderlands keeper was mentioned as a weaklink, media etc questioned him.. he became a shining light for them
Let's not ruin another goalkeeper before he's started. |
"times last season where Sunderlands keeper was mentioned as a weaklink" - true, but they only had the 13th best keeper in the Championship the previous season in Anthony Patterson: https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/l
Patterson was only 15th on goals prevented.
They had to spin the wheel in the transfer market.
Was nothing wrong with Walton. He was the fourth best in the Champ last year:
https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/l
Second if you judge by goals prevented: https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/l
Had an injury in early pre-season, but Palmer played well in Prem last time, and we signed van Oevelen to cover. Turned out Walton was fit for first game of the season (was on the bench). We didn't need this new element of uncertainty at the back. Can otherwise play superbly, but if have a dodgy keeper, still lose, just like we did with Muric. You'd think we'd err on the side of caution by now when messing with GK upon promotion to Prem. We've failed to "fix" a position that wasn't broken. [Post edited 7 Sep 8:58]
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| Making the opposition look good on 10:16 - Sep 7 with 367 views | bluelady |
| Making the opposition look good on 17:06 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
Though I think I have argued enough that I am not overly impressed with Hull, unlike others, and believe their position is as much down to luck as it is judgement, if not more. You'd think it wouldn't continue, but it got Sunderland 7th rather than the xG position of 18th last season, so who knows. |
Which is why we should be judging 10/12 games in not 3!!!
On the flip side Coventry bottom, 0 points, and i dont expect them to be there in a couple of months time....
its all about perspective, and its very difficult to have a clear/accurate view after 3 games for ANY team in the league |  | | |
| Making the opposition look good on 11:18 - Sep 7 with 318 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Making the opposition look good on 16:27 - Sep 6 by Dubtractor |
3 games in, with a new manager and a new team, and we're getting regular posts highlighting how bad we are, and how 2 champions league teams are rubbish, actually, and we ought to be doing better.
FFS. |
Pft. We won’t win the league with an attitude like that!  |  |
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| Making the opposition look good on 11:22 - Sep 7 with 313 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Making the opposition look good on 10:16 - Sep 7 by bluelady |
Which is why we should be judging 10/12 games in not 3!!!
On the flip side Coventry bottom, 0 points, and i dont expect them to be there in a couple of months time....
its all about perspective, and its very difficult to have a clear/accurate view after 3 games for ANY team in the league |
I thought we needed probably to the middle or end of October before being able to see whether we’ve got what it takes to stay up. I don’t know how many games that takes us too, but I don’t think we’re able to make any sort of reliable assessment yet, especially when two important members of the team had been in the building less than a week.
It’s clear there’s work to do to make us harder to play through yet I’ll only start worrying if we keep shipping lots of goals after several more games yet.
I come back to the basics of hoping to see small incremental improvements. As long as we keep progressing we’ve got a good chance. | |
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| Making the opposition look good on 12:15 - Sep 7 with 283 views | Sharkey |
| Making the opposition look good on 16:01 - Sep 6 by britbiker |
Typical that Fernandes had a game of the season performance against us and then looked ordinary today. Likewise with Isak on Friday. Is it us or are we just unlucky that someone always has a blinder against us. |
As I said in another thread, Isak played very well in the World Cup in a not-great team, and has started this season well. There was nothing freakish about his performance on Friday. |  | | |
| Making the opposition look good on 12:48 - Sep 7 with 251 views | Adams |
| Making the opposition look good on 10:16 - Sep 7 by bluelady |
Which is why we should be judging 10/12 games in not 3!!!
On the flip side Coventry bottom, 0 points, and i dont expect them to be there in a couple of months time....
its all about perspective, and its very difficult to have a clear/accurate view after 3 games for ANY team in the league |
I don't see anyone judging the team on how they'll do over the season based on three games. If people are doing that, it's not many.
I think we got the tactics horribly wrong, and massive mistakes were made by O'Neil. We were far too easy to play against and made it easy for them with our high line, even when there was no pressure on the ball. We looked extremely unorganised, which isn't acceptable at this level. Especially when playing Man U and Liverpool. Meanwhile, Hull have been perfect tactically. They have got the most out of their limited players.
That's me judging the three performances and not the teams as a whole. I personally think the team will improve and will stay up. I still think Hull will go down. We have much better players than they have and a bigger squad.
People need to stop seeing genuine criticism as being negative, writing the team off, judging the team too early etc | | | |
| Making the opposition look good on 14:09 - Sep 7 with 215 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Making the opposition look good on 16:32 - Sep 6 by Adams |
Well, this is a ridiculous post.
A Liverpool team that struggled against Forest and Newcastle and didn't win either. We gave them the most comfortable match possible.
A Man U team that lost to Hull and now drew with Everton. Both teams that we should be aiming to be above in the table. They absolutely battered us, and we fell apart in the second half.
The only team either Liverpool or Man U have won against was us, having also played Newcastle, Forest, Hull, and Everton.
It's safe to say that yes, we did make them look much better than the other teams did. [Post edited 6 Sep 16:39]
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Both yours and Frimmers' posts are factually correct, it just depends how you want to look at things. I don't recognise your username, are you a returning negative poster under a new one? |  |
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| Making the opposition look good on 14:11 - Sep 7 with 208 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Making the opposition look good on 16:27 - Sep 6 by Dubtractor |
3 games in, with a new manager and a new team, and we're getting regular posts highlighting how bad we are, and how 2 champions league teams are rubbish, actually, and we ought to be doing better.
FFS. |
And if you look at the uparrowers it's mostly the same negative posters who were picking everything apart under McKenna.
New season, new team, new manager. But some things stay exactly the same. | |
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| Making the opposition look good on 14:30 - Sep 7 with 190 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Making the opposition look good on 18:29 - Sep 6 by Adams |
So you're going to ignore my points showing how you got everything wrong?
Where have I said anything about being on the same level as the top six or other established teams? Can you find one post? You can't, as you just made another thing up and then will ignore it when you're called out. You repeatedly use strawman arguments.
All I've ever said was we got our tactics badly wrong and need to make it difficult and make teams work for their goals instead of being so open. All this is true, and every neutral who watched the games agrees.
Man U and Liverpool are both struggling. Everyone knows, and even their fans admit it. They both were very poor in the other two games they played and failed to win. The only game they haven't struggled in is against us. Liverpool hadn't won a game for 6 games until us and are short in many positions.
It would be nice in any future debates if you could keep it to what I'm saying, and not just make stuff up. [Post edited 6 Sep 18:29]
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I'm glad you know what everyone knows and what every neutral thinks. That's some skill! | |
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| Making the opposition look good on 21:23 - Sep 7 with 112 views | Adams |
| Making the opposition look good on 14:09 - Sep 7 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Both yours and Frimmers' posts are factually correct, it just depends how you want to look at things. I don't recognise your username, are you a returning negative poster under a new one? |
"Liverpool. Come to PR off the back of two draws including scoring 2 goals away to newcastle and scoring two goals against forest. They then score 2 goals at PR and yet we made them look good?"
Just read how silly this is in the context of the conversation. There is no doubt that Man and Liverpool have looked much better against us than in the other two games. That can't be up for debate.
He then claimed they should have scored a handful more in one game and scored more in the other one, in trying to claim they didn't struggle. It was clear he didn't watch the games, and I provided the facts, which went against his incorrect claims.
He ignored this because he can't debate facts. He then made a ridiculous claim that the other clubs haven't struggled in the other games, even though they failed to win them. Think how stupid that is. The bigger clubs didn't struggle against the smaller clubs, even though they didn't win. They clearly did struggle.
Then asked the silly question about whether I expected us to be the same level as the top six, when no one had said anything of the sort.
So no, his posts in this thread haven't been factually correct. There is no debate that Man U and Liverpool looked much better against us and that they struggled in the other games. These are facts.
No.
I haven't had an account here before. I've also been very positive about our transfers and us staying up this year, and that we will improve. I think we will be comfortably clear of relegation as long as we tighten. That doesn't mean I have to ignore how badly we have been tactically in those two games, or pretend that Man U and Liverpool didn't look better against us when they did in the other games. Hull, Newcastle, Everton, and Forest all showed the organisation required to be competitive with them.
I was also happy and positive about O'Neil's appointment. I think he will do well. That doesn't mean I can't point out when I think he gets it wrong. [Post edited 7 Sep 21:40]
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| Making the opposition look good on 23:23 - Sep 7 with 61 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Making the opposition look good on 21:23 - Sep 7 by Adams |
"Liverpool. Come to PR off the back of two draws including scoring 2 goals away to newcastle and scoring two goals against forest. They then score 2 goals at PR and yet we made them look good?"
Just read how silly this is in the context of the conversation. There is no doubt that Man and Liverpool have looked much better against us than in the other two games. That can't be up for debate.
He then claimed they should have scored a handful more in one game and scored more in the other one, in trying to claim they didn't struggle. It was clear he didn't watch the games, and I provided the facts, which went against his incorrect claims.
He ignored this because he can't debate facts. He then made a ridiculous claim that the other clubs haven't struggled in the other games, even though they failed to win them. Think how stupid that is. The bigger clubs didn't struggle against the smaller clubs, even though they didn't win. They clearly did struggle.
Then asked the silly question about whether I expected us to be the same level as the top six, when no one had said anything of the sort.
So no, his posts in this thread haven't been factually correct. There is no debate that Man U and Liverpool looked much better against us and that they struggled in the other games. These are facts.
No.
I haven't had an account here before. I've also been very positive about our transfers and us staying up this year, and that we will improve. I think we will be comfortably clear of relegation as long as we tighten. That doesn't mean I have to ignore how badly we have been tactically in those two games, or pretend that Man U and Liverpool didn't look better against us when they did in the other games. Hull, Newcastle, Everton, and Forest all showed the organisation required to be competitive with them.
I was also happy and positive about O'Neil's appointment. I think he will do well. That doesn't mean I can't point out when I think he gets it wrong. [Post edited 7 Sep 21:40]
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So your issue is that two established prem clubs got draws v liverpool, (also quite funny is liverpool have scored two goals in the last 6 games in a row ) So we should be worried because we also conceded two against them just like they did but because we didn't score the whole world is over and it means we weren't competitive in any form at all during that game?
Or are you more upset because we went to Old trafford, went in 1-1 after competing with them incredibly well for 40 odd minutes before the slip, lost our striker at HT, ended up with a bit of a mind fk because of a incredibly stupid rule and had a pretty bad 2nd half after that with utd still getting some incredible slices of luck in the process.
"Then asked the silly question about whether I expected us to be the same level as the top six, when no one had said anything of the sort"
You are coming across that way though.
12 minutes v utd and 3 minutes against Liverpool where we made two errors Besides those, we've pretty much performed reasonably well for a side with 14 new players.
Have they had chances around those minutes, of course, it is prem level football, No club is going to not have chances in games. This claim we had no chances v liverpool.. Davis free header, Julio and Emmerson all had opportunities, we didn't take them, but we had them. As I said the other day, better choices at times would have lead to better chances too.
But no I don't feel we made either of them look good. Most comments after the UTD game, werent about how good utd looked, it was mainly about the handball tbh, some questions over the penalty decision too but not how amazing utd looked. How did Utd get on v everton, pretty much how they got on against us until the handball. Could have scored more, could still have won 2-1 for it not a worldy by everton in the 90th minute.
V liverpool, we will never know how that game plays out without that 3 minute error spell, game state etc can be argued all day long, its not something we can know. All we can go in is what actually happened and that was simply after the 2nd goal, we competed against a top prem side, had our own chances, they had there's and the game ended 0-2, we didn't make them look any different to how they looked via newcastle or forest. The difference was however we didn't take our own chances. | |
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