| When the death penalty doesn't work 07:54 - Oct 1 with 3123 views | Mullet |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
Whenever people want the death penalty in here I always think of stuff like this. Regardless of the moral and ethical considerations of the state murdering people, it seems like the biggest argument is that it costs so much and still goes wrong sometimes. |  |
| |  |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 11:52 - Oct 1 with 898 views | DanTheMan |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 11:35 - Oct 1 by Churchman |
The whole thing is a bit beyond my comprehension, tbh, but I fully understand why the mother feels as she does. As I sit here with a cup of tea I’d want to be there to cheer the last gasp too or even press the button on the drugs.
But then I would beg for the perpetrator of a crime like that to anyone close to me to be released - so I could deal with it.
However in terms of a state or national policy one has to take the personal out of it and in all conscience if I was an MP capital not something I could vote for.
Am I being contradictory on this? Totally, but I make no apologies for it.
Back to the earlier point, the use of lethal injection that sounds sort of civilised seems the complete opposite. Electric chair? I’ve seen the Green Mile and I don’t suppose it’s accurate but from the fragments I’ve read, yet another experiment of US using new technology back in the early 20c and failing dismally |
I think what you understand if that whilst an individual may want revenge / vengeance, including every one of us, there is a reason we do not let victims set the punishment. To some degree, judges and laws do have to take emotions out of it.
There's a powerful moment from the trial of a serial killer. He had killed someone's 16 year old daughter.
The father said this to him:
"You've made it difficult to live up to what I believe and that is what God says to do and that's to forgive. You are forgiven, sir."
It made him cry, I think for the only time in the trial.
For a supposedly Christian nation, there is little forgiveness I see but lots of fire and brimstone. |  |
| |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 12:34 - Oct 1 with 827 views | leitrimblue |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:59 - Oct 1 by Mullet |
I just don’t think there is a humane way to kill someone, same as eating meat there’s only degrees of cruelty and you have to adopt that position.
But animals aren’t as important as humans ultimately. If it’s me or Daisy the cow, the cows getting it |
Yer definitely right to take out Daisy. Im pretty sure i overheard her an buttercup talking about armed insurrection the other day. Its a either them or you situation at this point  |  | | |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 12:51 - Oct 1 with 806 views | bartyg |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 09:52 - Oct 1 by MJallday |
i understand why people are opposed - theres so many things that can go wrong with the punishment itself, let alone the burden of proof that is required to even get to that decision.
however, the alternative is to let people sit in a cell for (x) years with no prospect of release or rehabiltiation.
i do believe in the DP - but i dont believe in suffering. get it done, quick. the lethal injection (or even eletric chair or gas) doesnt do that.
no offence was taken btw. we all believe in what we believe in. |
"I was a mentally ill 18-year-old kid," she said in a statement. "It took me numerous years to even realise the gravity of what I'd done. Even more to accept how many lives I affected. I took the life of someone's child, sister, friend. It sickens me now to think I had the ability to commit such a crime."
Sounds to me like remorse. For a supposedly Christian country there's not much forgiveness going about.
Edit: apologies I've copied DanTheMan near verbatim. My point stands [Post edited 1 Oct 12:52]
|  |
| |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 13:40 - Oct 1 with 744 views | Zx1988 |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 11:52 - Oct 1 by DanTheMan |
I think what you understand if that whilst an individual may want revenge / vengeance, including every one of us, there is a reason we do not let victims set the punishment. To some degree, judges and laws do have to take emotions out of it.
There's a powerful moment from the trial of a serial killer. He had killed someone's 16 year old daughter.
The father said this to him:
"You've made it difficult to live up to what I believe and that is what God says to do and that's to forgive. You are forgiven, sir."
It made him cry, I think for the only time in the trial.
For a supposedly Christian nation, there is little forgiveness I see but lots of fire and brimstone. |
The 'Christian county' remark is interesting as well.
You can well imagine that, if if made the news that a foetus had survived two attempts at abortion, the pro-life lobby would be holding it high as an example of divine intervention, and a clear sign that The Almighty does not agree with abortion.
When it comes to a botched execution, however... |  |
| Not a prophet, or a stone-age man; just a mortal with potential of a superman. | | Poll: | Worst Ginger? |
| |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 13:47 - Oct 1 with 743 views | mellowblue |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:04 - Oct 1 by Guthrum |
Tho it is possible to lead an improved and productive life within prison, e.g. by rehabilitating others. There are instances of Death Row prisoners in the US doing just that in the many years between conviction and execution.
Plus it is also a function of the American judicial system which has a "lock them up and throw away the key" attitude which we in the UK mostly don't (as can be seen by the current debate around whether whole life orders are justified). |
The whole nature of "Death Row" is a torture in it's own right. | | | |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 14:24 - Oct 1 with 694 views | Mullet |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 12:51 - Oct 1 by bartyg |
"I was a mentally ill 18-year-old kid," she said in a statement. "It took me numerous years to even realise the gravity of what I'd done. Even more to accept how many lives I affected. I took the life of someone's child, sister, friend. It sickens me now to think I had the ability to commit such a crime."
Sounds to me like remorse. For a supposedly Christian country there's not much forgiveness going about.
Edit: apologies I've copied DanTheMan near verbatim. My point stands [Post edited 1 Oct 12:52]
|
America isn’t a Christian country on the same way we are not. Asking everyone to have the same personal relationship with God and act accordingly just isn’t realistic. | |
| |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 16:06 - Oct 1 with 615 views | bartyg |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 14:24 - Oct 1 by Mullet |
America isn’t a Christian country on the same way we are not. Asking everyone to have the same personal relationship with God and act accordingly just isn’t realistic. |
Weirdly combative interpretation of my comment.
I don't believe that the evangelical right in America truly personify Christian values, but they quite obviously virtue signal about it constantly. I'm simply pointing out this contradiction, not making some comment on religion being required for a moral barometer. | |
| |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 16:13 - Oct 1 with 597 views | Mullet |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 16:06 - Oct 1 by bartyg |
Weirdly combative interpretation of my comment.
I don't believe that the evangelical right in America truly personify Christian values, but they quite obviously virtue signal about it constantly. I'm simply pointing out this contradiction, not making some comment on religion being required for a moral barometer. |
I think you’ve massively misread me broadly agreeing with you | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 16:36 - Oct 1 with 570 views | Swansea_Blue |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 13:47 - Oct 1 by mellowblue |
The whole nature of "Death Row" is a torture in it's own right. |
I find the whole thing utterly barbaric. Humane killing my arse. It’s killing in cold blood, albeit legalised killing in cold blood, which almost makes is colder and more barbaric. It’s a desperately tragic and upsetting case on several levels. |  |
| |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 12:52 - Oct 2 with 424 views | football |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 09:02 - Oct 1 by baxterbasics |
I don't know the ins and outs of what the condemned prisoner experiences with the injection. Is there suffering or do they just drift off to sleep like it's a general anaesthetic? Because if it's the latter I'd choose that all day over a noose, guillotine or firing squad. |
I have previously been involved with an American charity opposing the death penalty and is something I am very passionate about. How it is told to me is that it isn't just a case of falling asleep, though that is what it looks like, but its like you are slowly drowning but can't do anything about it. They want it to look nice and clean but I think it is far from it, and too many botched executions | | | |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 13:13 - Oct 2 with 405 views | football |
The chap who started this charity, Bryan Stevenson, represented a client who was wrongly convicted and spent years on death row. Would recommend watching Just Mercy
It is stories like this which is why i am fiercely opposed to the death penalty, whatever method is used. In America it is riddled with wrong convictions, racism and those from poorer communities unable to fund good lawyers either in the initial trial or subsequent appeals. You'll find few well educated or rich people on death row but many from poor backgrounds, low IQ levels and traumatic upbringings.
And the UK was no different - several cases (such as Let them Have it Chris) of wrong convictions. Punishment was carried out swiftly in the UK after trial, giving very little opportunity for appeals. At least in the US there is that opportunity, but very rarely are they upheld as it is not a good political look! [Post edited 3 Oct 16:58]
| | | |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 09:57 - Oct 4 with 230 views | Ryorry |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:59 - Oct 1 by Mullet |
I just don’t think there is a humane way to kill someone, same as eating meat there’s only degrees of cruelty and you have to adopt that position.
But animals aren’t as important as humans ultimately. If it’s me or Daisy the cow, the cows getting it |
“ But animals aren’t as important as humans ultimately. ”
I’ve never understood that argument. They feel pain and fear like we do, and haven’t done anything wrong when they’re killed for meat*.
Not to mention, now we understand better how the biological world works as a system, bees, other insects, animals and fungi are fundamental in keeping things going on our planet, whereas humans aren’t - in fact we’re obviously destroying our environment. Even some breeds of cows, eg, are important in keeping a diverse, healthy ecosystem.
Getting back to the OP, according to a R4 news report yesterday, the lethal injections failed on this woman because qualified medics won’t administer the DP due to their professional oath and conscience, so it’s left to lay people to do - and on this occasion, the intravenous drip into the arm wasn’t complete or secure.
*Yes I do eat some, and yes I know I’m a hypocrite. |  |
| |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:54 - Oct 4 with 206 views | Mullet |
| When the death penalty doesn't work on 09:57 - Oct 4 by Ryorry |
“ But animals aren’t as important as humans ultimately. ”
I’ve never understood that argument. They feel pain and fear like we do, and haven’t done anything wrong when they’re killed for meat*.
Not to mention, now we understand better how the biological world works as a system, bees, other insects, animals and fungi are fundamental in keeping things going on our planet, whereas humans aren’t - in fact we’re obviously destroying our environment. Even some breeds of cows, eg, are important in keeping a diverse, healthy ecosystem.
Getting back to the OP, according to a R4 news report yesterday, the lethal injections failed on this woman because qualified medics won’t administer the DP due to their professional oath and conscience, so it’s left to lay people to do - and on this occasion, the intravenous drip into the arm wasn’t complete or secure.
*Yes I do eat some, and yes I know I’m a hypocrite. |
It’s pretty simple. If it’s survival between humans and animals in a scenario then ultimately you have to side with the humans.
Theres no denial animals feel and are sentient, but they’re not equal to us. Theyre different. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
