| What is our system? 18:51 - Oct 14 with 8842 views | Luk38644 |
442? 4231? 532? We seem to switch it every game and try to match up the opposition... why? It's been a consistent mindset of Mick's over the past 5 years and one that I really wish we'd get rid of. Can't we pick a system, get the players used to it and go from there rather than constantly trying to stifle teams home and away? I understand why Mick would play what he did today, but we're 5 years down the line in his tenure and we still don't have a settled system and don't look likely to have one soon.
I hate the wing-backs system that we play. It's fashionable at the moment all over football because that wing-backs heavily support attacks and act more as wide midfielders than they do full-backs, yet when we play it, Iorfa and Kenlock play more as full-backs who meander forward from time to time. Speaking of Iorfa, why is he starting over Spence? He can;t control a ball and has no end product, so why would Mick choose Iorfa over Spence to play WING-back? Strange choice that.
We are also reverting to the 'square pegs/round holes' conundrum. Ward is not a central midfielder, Iorfa is not a wing-back, Nydam isn't a wide midfielder and Webster isn't anything but a quality centre-half.
I really do hope we set up to go at Norwich like we did Sunderland. Yes, we kept the same team against Bristol City and lost, but you don't abandon a system after one loss. I just hope we can build on a 4231 which can accommodate Waghorn, Celina, McGoldrick and Garner because having those 4 on the pitch encourages us to go forward and attack teams. Adeyemi is clearly a huge miss in the midfield and hopefully he'll be back for the Scum game, but we really need the likes of him and Huws back in the midfield, it's been so pedestrian against Bristol City and now Sheffield United.
Somehow we're still in the top 10 after six losses from eight, so now is the time to sort ourselves out ahead of a tough two months. Norwich is a great chance to get some good feeling back and some momentum. It will be as tough as every derby is, but a win there could kickstart us . Wishful thinking possibly and I don't think we'll win next Sunday, but hopefully the players aren't as pessimistic as I am and show us a performance that emulates the one vs Sunderland and not today's. |  | | |  |
| What is our system? on 19:19 - Oct 14 with 6785 views | J2BLUE |
From a distance it feels like we're back to last season. I sat there today watching the scores come in thinking it's a matter of time, they're going to score. |  |
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| What is our system? on 19:23 - Oct 14 with 6775 views | textbackup |
our system depends on the team we are playing, so our team never get a chance to work with one another to develop and stamp our authority on a game.
its a mish mash of whatever we have chuck in then change it up when the system we start doesn't work, then end up with players out of position... its a disgrace a professional manager hasn't got a clue what or how to set up a team |  |
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| What is our system? on 19:25 - Oct 14 with 6769 views | Reuser_is_God |
Worrying that Mick doesn't seem to know our best system &/or team. |  |
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| What is our system? on 19:28 - Oct 14 with 6761 views | The_Romford_Blue |
We should be 4-3-3
With Spence RB
None of this wing back nonsense. It was a necessary evil when we had no proper centre backs fit but now we have Webster, chambers and Spence who are solid centre backs, it has to be 4-3-3 in my view |  |
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| What is our system? on 19:33 - Oct 14 with 6748 views | Dennyx4 |
Can't say I am a great fan of the wing back system either - just dont think we have good enough wing backs to play it.
Would love us to make the 4231 system our go to formation - with Waghorn, Mcgoldrick and Celina behind Garner.
However my biggest worry with this sytem at the moment is the central midfield, without the physicality of Adeyemi, I believe we need to play 3 in there, otherwise we get over run. |  | | |
| What is our system? on 19:34 - Oct 14 with 6745 views | bournemouthblue |
For me systems should be adaptable but I would want to make the opposition worry about us rather than us worrying about them
As you say, we seem to have no plan b
McCarthy seems to have no variety to his set piece approaches either IMHO |  |
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| What is our system? on 19:35 - Oct 14 with 6746 views | Garv |
Agree with most of what you've said and your general viewpoint, apart from one thing;
Ward may not be a classic central midfielder, but can you honestly tell me you think he's a good wide midfielder? The best game I've seen him play was as an advanced centre mid away at Villa last year. I can't say I rate him hugely anywhere in truth. He's still young and at least he's our player to develop though I suppose. |  |
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| What is our system? on 19:39 - Oct 14 with 6732 views | textbackup |
| What is our system? on 19:34 - Oct 14 by bournemouthblue |
For me systems should be adaptable but I would want to make the opposition worry about us rather than us worrying about them
As you say, we seem to have no plan b
McCarthy seems to have no variety to his set piece approaches either IMHO |
Because we very very rarely work on them. Take the two weeks we've just had, furstbweek was off... why not work on these things?! It's BS! | |
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| What is our system? on 20:18 - Oct 14 with 6674 views | Luk38644 |
| What is our system? on 19:35 - Oct 14 by Garv |
Agree with most of what you've said and your general viewpoint, apart from one thing;
Ward may not be a classic central midfielder, but can you honestly tell me you think he's a good wide midfielder? The best game I've seen him play was as an advanced centre mid away at Villa last year. I can't say I rate him hugely anywhere in truth. He's still young and at least he's our player to develop though I suppose. |
He hasn't really set the world alight in either position. "I can't say I rate him hugely anywhere in truth" is how I feel as well. | | | |
| What is our system? on 20:44 - Oct 14 with 6635 views | Reuser_is_God |
| What is our system? on 19:28 - Oct 14 by The_Romford_Blue |
We should be 4-3-3
With Spence RB
None of this wing back nonsense. It was a necessary evil when we had no proper centre backs fit but now we have Webster, chambers and Spence who are solid centre backs, it has to be 4-3-3 in my view |
'Spence RB'
'Spence a solid CB'
In the same post? Odd.
No way should we play 433 either, we don't have the pace in our side to do so. | |
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| What is our system? on 20:45 - Oct 14 with 6628 views | Reuser_is_God |
| What is our system? on 19:33 - Oct 14 by Dennyx4 |
Can't say I am a great fan of the wing back system either - just dont think we have good enough wing backs to play it.
Would love us to make the 4231 system our go to formation - with Waghorn, Mcgoldrick and Celina behind Garner.
However my biggest worry with this sytem at the moment is the central midfield, without the physicality of Adeyemi, I believe we need to play 3 in there, otherwise we get over run. |
Pretty much this. | |
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| What is our system? on 20:46 - Oct 14 with 6617 views | strikalite |
| What is our system? on 19:33 - Oct 14 by Dennyx4 |
Can't say I am a great fan of the wing back system either - just dont think we have good enough wing backs to play it.
Would love us to make the 4231 system our go to formation - with Waghorn, Mcgoldrick and Celina behind Garner.
However my biggest worry with this sytem at the moment is the central midfield, without the physicality of Adeyemi, I believe we need to play 3 in there, otherwise we get over run. |
Agree, the truth is we don't have natural wing backs, Mick has given them the job of the old fashioned full back who's first thought at all costs is to defend, so a 3 will always become a 5 across the back, to make things worse we then have certainly two holding midfielders who because they have no outlets out wide become static themselves..
If he wants 5 across the back then turn two wingers into wing backs, but he won't because ultimately MM is a defender himself in his head still who sets up not to lose as he first thought so plays two defenders who may "try" to get forward as opposed to two wingers who try to get back and cover... |  | | |
| What is our system? on 20:55 - Oct 14 with 6600 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| What is our system? on 20:44 - Oct 14 by Reuser_is_God |
'Spence RB'
'Spence a solid CB'
In the same post? Odd.
No way should we play 433 either, we don't have the pace in our side to do so. |
It should be Spence at RB
But that doesn't change the fact that he's a solid centre back. If Webster isn't fit, Spence in a two with chambers is good enough I think.
But when both Webster and chambers are fit, they are the first two choices for CB I think. And therefore Spence would have to go right back. Let's face it, Iorfa is sh1t | |
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| What is our system? on 21:00 - Oct 14 with 6592 views | Reuser_is_God |
| What is our system? on 20:55 - Oct 14 by The_Romford_Blue |
It should be Spence at RB
But that doesn't change the fact that he's a solid centre back. If Webster isn't fit, Spence in a two with chambers is good enough I think.
But when both Webster and chambers are fit, they are the first two choices for CB I think. And therefore Spence would have to go right back. Let's face it, Iorfa is sh1t |
What is Spence good enough at CB for? Finishing 16th? | |
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| What is our system? on 21:56 - Oct 14 with 6517 views | bring_back_Wickham |
If we stuck with the same formation,then as soon as we lost a game people would be bemoaning MM for his tactical inflexibility. |  |
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| What is our system? on 22:03 - Oct 14 with 6510 views | textbackup |
| What is our system? on 21:00 - Oct 14 by Reuser_is_God |
What is Spence good enough at CB for? Finishing 16th? |
He looked like he was playing with a milk bottle up his arse vs Bristol city | |
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| What is our system? on 22:44 - Oct 14 with 6464 views | tractorshark |
What I find incredibly frustrating is how many times Mick picks a system to match the opposition and then changes it half an hour into the game because it isn’t working.
This happens so often. Why?
Is it just bad execution on the players’ part or incompetence from the management team?
Surely the whole point of mirroring the opposition is to counteract their threat so why does it have the opposite effect.
Instead of worrying about the opposition, why don’t we play to our strengths. We did that in the playoff season.
And instead of mirroring the opposition, who don’t we use a system that may tactically outwit them.
Why aren’t we forcing teams to change their system because it isn’t working against us. For every action, there is a counter action, why can’t we find it.
Today finally convinced me Mick’s time is up at the end of the season.
Sheff Utd deserved their win, they were better than us. But look at the two line-ups. On paper, not much between them, in fact you’d probably favour ours.
But Wilder has got them playing positive football on the front foot.
Mick has us on the back foot, trying to scrape points.
McCarthy has done a decent job steadying the ship here and I was willing to give him the benefit of doubt after last season but we won’t progress any further under him.
He was outwitted today and it’s becoming a regular occurrence. |  | | |
| What is our system? on 23:47 - Oct 14 with 6429 views | bournemouthblue |
| What is our system? on 19:39 - Oct 14 by textbackup |
Because we very very rarely work on them. Take the two weeks we've just had, furstbweek was off... why not work on these things?! It's BS! |
Complacency, ignorance, stubbornness or just the fact the players lack the footballing intelligence?
MM is a decent manager but he seems unwilling to gamble and it frustrates me
He never seems to have a plan with his subs, at least it doesn't look like it | |
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| What is our system? on 08:27 - Oct 15 with 6328 views | Herbivore |
A lot of people were calling for us to play 3 at the back yesterday ahead of the game and when we then do it's wrong. We then change it after half an hour because it wasn't working and that's wrong too. Quite staggered by the level of negativity on here after a 1-0 away defeat against a side in the top 3, I guess last season always meant that Mick wasn't going to be given any leeway this season and we're seeing that now. |  |
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| What is our system? on 08:40 - Oct 15 with 6323 views | madmouse1959 |
Yesterday it seemed the formation was 9-0-2 and 6-2-2 for about 8 minutes in total. Defensive rubbish and out fought . A learning curve for the younger players is about the only thing that could be taken from this game. Back to feeling sorry for the supporters again. |  |
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| What is our system? on 10:15 - Oct 15 with 6292 views | tractorshark |
| What is our system? on 08:27 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
A lot of people were calling for us to play 3 at the back yesterday ahead of the game and when we then do it's wrong. We then change it after half an hour because it wasn't working and that's wrong too. Quite staggered by the level of negativity on here after a 1-0 away defeat against a side in the top 3, I guess last season always meant that Mick wasn't going to be given any leeway this season and we're seeing that now. |
I’ve not been a Mick outer and I think he should see the season out whatever.
But I’m moaning about the changing of the system midway through because it’s happening all the time now.
You can argue it’s good he’s able to see it and adjust.
But you can also argue why is it rarely right in the first place?
Sheff Utd are on a roll but they are no Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle etc.
Billy Sharp and Leon Clarke are not World beaters, most people wouldn’t know who their midfield were.
But their wing-backs were excellent and time and again Iorfa and Kenlock (who were both poor and at fault for the goal) got overloaded.
If we’re mirroring them, how is that happening?
Why do the opposition rarely have to counter us?
I wavered over Mick after the Lincoln defeat but it became quite apparent Evans was a major part of the problem.
And I think Mick has done a decent job but things come to an end and this summer we can part ways without payoffs, sackings or resignations.
There is a good nucleus of youngsters coming through but we need another direction. [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 10:16]
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| What is our system? on 10:22 - Oct 15 with 6282 views | Herbivore |
| What is our system? on 10:15 - Oct 15 by tractorshark |
I’ve not been a Mick outer and I think he should see the season out whatever.
But I’m moaning about the changing of the system midway through because it’s happening all the time now.
You can argue it’s good he’s able to see it and adjust.
But you can also argue why is it rarely right in the first place?
Sheff Utd are on a roll but they are no Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle etc.
Billy Sharp and Leon Clarke are not World beaters, most people wouldn’t know who their midfield were.
But their wing-backs were excellent and time and again Iorfa and Kenlock (who were both poor and at fault for the goal) got overloaded.
If we’re mirroring them, how is that happening?
Why do the opposition rarely have to counter us?
I wavered over Mick after the Lincoln defeat but it became quite apparent Evans was a major part of the problem.
And I think Mick has done a decent job but things come to an end and this summer we can part ways without payoffs, sackings or resignations.
There is a good nucleus of youngsters coming through but we need another direction. [Post edited 15 Oct 2017 10:16]
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Personally I think it was a mistake to change system to match them up - although many of our fans wanted us to play three at the back - and Mick subsequently had to change it, but I'd rather have a manager who recognises when a system isn't working and makes changes than one who persists with a system that's not working. We had a good spell after changing things up and should really have got a goal through Knudsen or Didz before the break. Disappointing we then conceded a really poor goal early in the second half. I wouldn't say we're frequently changing system mid game either, when it has happened it's usually been when we've started with three at the back so hopefully our fans will stop calling for it now. | |
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| What is our system? on 10:48 - Oct 15 with 6264 views | No9 |
Now you understand why so many supporters want to see MM walk | | | |
| What is our system? on 11:27 - Oct 15 with 6243 views | ClausThomsen |
| What is our system? on 10:22 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
Personally I think it was a mistake to change system to match them up - although many of our fans wanted us to play three at the back - and Mick subsequently had to change it, but I'd rather have a manager who recognises when a system isn't working and makes changes than one who persists with a system that's not working. We had a good spell after changing things up and should really have got a goal through Knudsen or Didz before the break. Disappointing we then conceded a really poor goal early in the second half. I wouldn't say we're frequently changing system mid game either, when it has happened it's usually been when we've started with three at the back so hopefully our fans will stop calling for it now. |
We play 4 at the back and we concede too many goals. We play 5 and we've conceded one all season. Which was Kenlock's fault apparently. We can't pretend that 532 is some unfamiliar experiment we've only used this season - our best run last season was in a 532, and that was with Berra in the back 3.
All we needed to do was build on that formation and add goals to it.
Instead we're back playing 4 at the back, leaking goals like a salad and playing players out of position.
I can't wait till June when that contract expires. | | | |
| What is our system? on 11:44 - Oct 15 with 6223 views | chicoazul |
I just think Mick has run out of ideas and the club is bereft of intent. No we wont go down, no we wont trouble the play offs. Our form over the last 18 months is basically horrific, with a couple of decent patches. We always have 5 or 6 players injured. Yes we always look like scoring and we have some good forwards, yes we always look like conceding and have some bad defenders. Adeyemi looks good but he cant stay fit, Huws looks good but cant get fit.
Surely now a change is needed. Mick has had his time. |  |
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