| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration 11:49 - Oct 29 with 2721 views | bluelagos |
"Look at the f**king Pakis. They came here, opened shops, worked hard, sent their kids to University"
I actually let it go, given that the guy was highlighting how hard Pakistani migrants had worked to integrate.
So TWTD - right or wrong call on my part?
|  |
| |  |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:52 - Oct 29 with 2369 views | monytowbray |
Should have just corrected them on the use of the word. |  |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:53 - Oct 29 with 2363 views | The_Romford_Blue |
It’s a horrible word. It really is. But it seems to be in this case that the person is actually talking favourably and so presumably didn’t mean the racial slur. Perhaps they just need to be educated that the word is not one that should be used in 2020. Maybe you could’ve highlighted this that the word is an issue but then again, I can see why you didn’t. I’m going to vote that the person was well-intentioned here rather than being deliberately a racist. Although perhaps I’m just being naive. |  |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:54 - Oct 29 with 2354 views | SpruceMoose |
I'd have pointed out his offensive use of the word Paki. Which group of immigrants was he comparing them to? Sounds like his comment was meant to suggest there are a group of people not doing those things? |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:54 - Oct 29 with 2354 views | solomon |
Just correct him on the term, agree with the point that culturally their work ethic is vastly different from others and in lots of ways it is to be admired. Families of Pakistani origin would have been a better phrase. |  | | |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:54 - Oct 29 with 2356 views | Keno |
There is a clip somewhere of an EDL 'Neanderthal type' complaining about foriegners coming overhere and taking his job at which point someone asked him when he had qualified as a brain surgeon
it make me smile at time |  |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:55 - Oct 29 with 2346 views | bluelagos |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:53 - Oct 29 by The_Romford_Blue |
It’s a horrible word. It really is. But it seems to be in this case that the person is actually talking favourably and so presumably didn’t mean the racial slur. Perhaps they just need to be educated that the word is not one that should be used in 2020. Maybe you could’ve highlighted this that the word is an issue but then again, I can see why you didn’t. I’m going to vote that the person was well-intentioned here rather than being deliberately a racist. Although perhaps I’m just being naive. |
He was 100% arguing against someone who was making / talking lots of anti immigration bollox. | |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:56 - Oct 29 with 2337 views | bluelagos |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:54 - Oct 29 by SpruceMoose |
I'd have pointed out his offensive use of the word Paki. Which group of immigrants was he comparing them to? Sounds like his comment was meant to suggest there are a group of people not doing those things? |
No, someone else was arguing against migrants, he was arguing for tolerance towards migration. | |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:58 - Oct 29 with 2326 views | bluelagos |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:54 - Oct 29 by solomon |
Just correct him on the term, agree with the point that culturally their work ethic is vastly different from others and in lots of ways it is to be admired. Families of Pakistani origin would have been a better phrase. |
Of course it would have been better phrased differently.
My question is, given that he was arguing positively about migration with someone else, should I have risked alienating him when he was making lots of comments that I agreed with? | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:59 - Oct 29 with 2325 views | SpruceMoose |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:54 - Oct 29 by Keno |
There is a clip somewhere of an EDL 'Neanderthal type' complaining about foriegners coming overhere and taking his job at which point someone asked him when he had qualified as a brain surgeon
it make me smile at time |
It's funny. I've never had anyone complain to me that I'm taking an American's job. However, there's an awful lot of Americans who seem to be devastated that they'll never work 24 hours in a corner shop thanks to the Yemeni guys. They also sound like they've always dreamed of being a takeaway delivery person but now just can't break into the field thanks to all those pesky Chinese and Mexican fellas. Weird. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:01 - Oct 29 with 2314 views | SpruceMoose |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:56 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
No, someone else was arguing against migrants, he was arguing for tolerance towards migration. |
Definitely would have had a word with him after then, but probably not in front of the guy he was arguing with in case it felt like I was undermining him. Sounds like he'd be receptive to it and just somehow missed the memo about Paki being offensive.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good I'd say. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 12:02]
| |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:03 - Oct 29 with 2302 views | WeWereZombies |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:54 - Oct 29 by solomon |
Just correct him on the term, agree with the point that culturally their work ethic is vastly different from others and in lots of ways it is to be admired. Families of Pakistani origin would have been a better phrase. |
Asian British is used in the most recent census (although I think British Asian is better as it first puts emphasis on where people reside now), in the OP I would have said that there was no need for the 'fecking' to be put before 'Paki' but given the context that Lagos has later provided then you could argue that the best way to stop an unreconstructed racist to get any hold in a conversation is to have their errors put to them in language that they cannot object to (as being middle class or effete etc.). I've seen this in what I thought was a dodgy pub when the, and they are not all like this, Millwall supporter started off with some fecking blacks stuff and the rest of the pub rounded on him. |  |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:05 - Oct 29 with 2298 views | bluelagos |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:01 - Oct 29 by SpruceMoose |
Definitely would have had a word with him after then, but probably not in front of the guy he was arguing with in case it felt like I was undermining him. Sounds like he'd be receptive to it and just somehow missed the memo about Paki being offensive.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good I'd say. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 12:02]
|
May do next time I see him :-) | |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:08 - Oct 29 with 2288 views | SpruceMoose |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:05 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
May do next time I see him :-) |
Actually reminds me of when my missus met my grandmother for the first time and dear old Nan decided to announce that she was pleased to see that "you've got a coloured president now!"*. Sentiment correct, delivery God awful.
*Obama. Not Trump. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:11 - Oct 29 with 2259 views | bluelagos |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:03 - Oct 29 by WeWereZombies |
Asian British is used in the most recent census (although I think British Asian is better as it first puts emphasis on where people reside now), in the OP I would have said that there was no need for the 'fecking' to be put before 'Paki' but given the context that Lagos has later provided then you could argue that the best way to stop an unreconstructed racist to get any hold in a conversation is to have their errors put to them in language that they cannot object to (as being middle class or effete etc.). I've seen this in what I thought was a dodgy pub when the, and they are not all like this, Millwall supporter started off with some fecking blacks stuff and the rest of the pub rounded on him. |
unreconstructed racist...
But that's the whole point. Whilst the guy was clearly using offensive (and racist) language I would not label him a racist, given he was arguing against a racist.
Bit like when my Dad talks about "half castes", it's offensive language but I wouldn't call him a racist. (And I would/do correct his language) | |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:13 - Oct 29 with 2239 views | bluelagos |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:08 - Oct 29 by SpruceMoose |
Actually reminds me of when my missus met my grandmother for the first time and dear old Nan decided to announce that she was pleased to see that "you've got a coloured president now!"*. Sentiment correct, delivery God awful.
*Obama. Not Trump. |
So did you correct her? | |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:16 - Oct 29 with 2217 views | J2BLUE |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:11 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
unreconstructed racist...
But that's the whole point. Whilst the guy was clearly using offensive (and racist) language I would not label him a racist, given he was arguing against a racist.
Bit like when my Dad talks about "half castes", it's offensive language but I wouldn't call him a racist. (And I would/do correct his language) |
Language evolves. It's very hard to keep up sometimes. The likes of your dad/Spruce's nan should be judged on attitude IMO, not language. Just a polite suggestion to them at an appropriate time that the language has changed and then move on. |  |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:21 - Oct 29 with 2178 views | jaykay |
i expect he doesn't even know the difference between a indian and a pakistani. in fact at a guess i would say the person he speaking about a indian. |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:33 - Oct 29 with 2123 views | SpruceMoose |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:13 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
So did you correct her? |
The whole room when 'Woah!' but it ended up being more funny than anything. Certainly not a big deal. She was an 85 year old woman who isn't exactly up to date. We just said that people don't like using that term any more, and that Black is the preferred term. She said ok and I've never heard her say it again.
Have to give people the chance to learn before kicking off. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 12:35]
| |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:58 - Oct 29 with 2049 views | CBBlue |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 12:21 - Oct 29 by jaykay |
i expect he doesn't even know the difference between a indian and a pakistani. in fact at a guess i would say the person he speaking about a indian. |
Yes my response to the P word is to ask how they know the person/people they're talking about are from Pakistan and innocently ask what else they found out about them while they were obviously chatting to the person. In BlueLagos's case I'd have just chipped in 'not just Pakistan but those from India and Bangladesh too' as sounds like their heart was in the right place just not necessarily educated about racist language. |  |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 13:09 - Oct 29 with 2004 views | Guthrum |
Given he was arguing against the anti-immigration type (and appears to be in favour of that ethnic group's actions), was he using the term caustically, to highlight the other's prejudice? Difficult to tell without hearing the tone of voice. |  |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 13:12 - Oct 29 with 2000 views | Fixed_It |
My late Father-in-Law used to live in an area of Rochdale with a high Asian population. He used to refer to them as 'Pakis', but in his case it was a generational thing and not used in a derogatory sense. He got on really well with all his neighbours, most of whom were from the Indian subcontinent. And they used to make fantastic food which they happily shared - it was considered offensive to refuse their hospitality.
So nothing wrong with the term per se if it isn't used in a derogatory way - although I don't like or use it myself. |  |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 13:30 - Oct 29 with 1951 views | bluelagos |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 13:09 - Oct 29 by Guthrum |
Given he was arguing against the anti-immigration type (and appears to be in favour of that ethnic group's actions), was he using the term caustically, to highlight the other's prejudice? Difficult to tell without hearing the tone of voice. |
He just used it as how he described Asians. Bare in mind that was consistent with the guy he was arguing against.
I like the idea (Spruce?) of saying something next time I see him. | |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 16:14 - Oct 29 with 1831 views | solomon |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 11:58 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
Of course it would have been better phrased differently.
My question is, given that he was arguing positively about migration with someone else, should I have risked alienating him when he was making lots of comments that I agreed with? |
Good god no of course not, if he’s unlikely to lamp you one then correct him with a humerus remark. | | | |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 17:34 - Oct 29 with 1763 views | BlueBadger |
Heart's maybe in the right place, but could also be playing the 'good immigrant' card to play one group off against another.
Back when I was a lad a common refrain was along the lines of 'Oh, I'm fine with the blacks, but I don't trust the p*kis, they're just Not Like Us'. |  |
| |
| Heard earlier when discussing the pros / cons of immigration on 17:49 - Oct 29 with 1726 views | Herbivore |
You should have banged him out. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
