| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies 07:36 - May 30 with 4180 views | itfcjoe |
Front of page of today’s Sunday Times that UK and US forces are investigating this, won’t be easy dealing with Chinese |  |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:47 - May 30 with 3261 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Hmm....military bio research center researching coronavirus in bats or bat sh@gs someone's pangolin dinner or some such...I wonder? |  |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:49 - May 30 with 3257 views | StokieBlue |
It does look bad but there are still some scientific reasons why it's not widely accepted. The main one of these is that the virus wasn't optimised and it wasn't using a framework that's been used before.
Of course they could have been in the early stages of trying something new but the location of a virus lab specialising in bat coronavirus research correlating with the location of a bat coronavirus outbreak is always going to cause questions.
If it does turn out to be true we shouldn't be dealing with the Chinese at all and neither should anyone else. They should be totally cutoff by the world until the a more transparent and accountable regime is in place.
It would be very hard of course given the interconnected nature of world trade but this would be one that's too big to turn a blind eye to (unlike the Uighurs it seems).
I think it's going to be very hard to prove even if it's true and might require a leak from within China. When it was mentioned last year they said it could have started in the US and then made its way to China, it's simply not something they are willing to be open about at all.
SB |  | | |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:53 - May 30 with 3225 views | StokieBlue |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:47 - May 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Hmm....military bio research center researching coronavirus in bats or bat sh@gs someone's pangolin dinner or some such...I wonder? |
If it was engineered (and this is all speculation), I'm not sure it would be for military purposes. It's doesn't seem with targeted enough or lethal enough for that purpose.
For instance, the mortality rate of Anthrax can be in excess of 80%.
SB | | | |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:55 - May 30 with 3215 views | itfcjoe |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:49 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
It does look bad but there are still some scientific reasons why it's not widely accepted. The main one of these is that the virus wasn't optimised and it wasn't using a framework that's been used before.
Of course they could have been in the early stages of trying something new but the location of a virus lab specialising in bat coronavirus research correlating with the location of a bat coronavirus outbreak is always going to cause questions.
If it does turn out to be true we shouldn't be dealing with the Chinese at all and neither should anyone else. They should be totally cutoff by the world until the a more transparent and accountable regime is in place.
It would be very hard of course given the interconnected nature of world trade but this would be one that's too big to turn a blind eye to (unlike the Uighurs it seems).
I think it's going to be very hard to prove even if it's true and might require a leak from within China. When it was mentioned last year they said it could have started in the US and then made its way to China, it's simply not something they are willing to be open about at all.
SB |
It does mention that that is the difficulty will be that there will be so many lies told on either side in China that picking through it will be next to impossible | |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:58 - May 30 with 3199 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:53 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
If it was engineered (and this is all speculation), I'm not sure it would be for military purposes. It's doesn't seem with targeted enough or lethal enough for that purpose.
For instance, the mortality rate of Anthrax can be in excess of 80%.
SB |
As you suggested above it was likely accidental.
Regardless it is a good example of how the general public will swallow a narrative at any point in time. | |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:08 - May 30 with 3159 views | WD19 |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:53 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
If it was engineered (and this is all speculation), I'm not sure it would be for military purposes. It's doesn't seem with targeted enough or lethal enough for that purpose.
For instance, the mortality rate of Anthrax can be in excess of 80%.
SB |
Accidental or otherwise, it has been a hell of a useful pilot for the Chinese.
They have proved that they can respond and lock down their own population strongly with aggressive use of technology, whilst any future potential enemy nations flounder around and will die en masse. |  | | |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:20 - May 30 with 3100 views | StokieBlue |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:08 - May 30 by WD19 |
Accidental or otherwise, it has been a hell of a useful pilot for the Chinese.
They have proved that they can respond and lock down their own population strongly with aggressive use of technology, whilst any future potential enemy nations flounder around and will die en masse. |
Indeed, those are fair points.
Although I wonder if people might be willing to accept restrictions a lot quicker if it killed 10 in 100 or 30 in 100 and was across all ages equally.
There are specifics about C19 which make some people think it doesn't affect them and isn't their problem.
SB | | | |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:21 - May 30 with 3089 views | 26_Paz |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:08 - May 30 by WD19 |
Accidental or otherwise, it has been a hell of a useful pilot for the Chinese.
They have proved that they can respond and lock down their own population strongly with aggressive use of technology, whilst any future potential enemy nations flounder around and will die en masse. |
Yeah, I think corona virus is the absolute perfect disease for them. They can control it because they basically have dictatorial powers and can just enforce very hard lock downs and / or increase surveillance on their populace.
It’s just about the right level of lethalness (if that’s a word) to cause division in the west and therefore maximum disruption. |  |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:43 - May 30 with 3015 views | Guthrum |
It's always been "feasible" to some extent. But that doesn't mean it actually happened.
For obvious reasons, labs dealing with dangerous substances tend to have very strong precautions in place to prevent those escaping. Including monitoring the health of staff. Researchers know the nature of what they're handling and are unlikely to take a blase approach to any spillage (for their own health, if nothing else).
So how how might it have got from inside a secure lab to the local market, where the earliest cases have been traced to? |  |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:50 - May 30 with 2950 views | Guthrum |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:08 - May 30 by WD19 |
Accidental or otherwise, it has been a hell of a useful pilot for the Chinese.
They have proved that they can respond and lock down their own population strongly with aggressive use of technology, whilst any future potential enemy nations flounder around and will die en masse. |
The only thing it's proven is that they were very fortunate to have discovered the place of origin of the virus before it had spread too far or mutated much, making it relatively easy to isolate and deal with.
Had Covid arrived at multiple locations almost simultaneously (as it did in many countries, including the UK), then China would have been stuffed. They can't close the whole country down as tightly as Wuhan any more than we could have. Who would feed and support the population? | |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:50 - May 30 with 2954 views | solomon |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:53 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
If it was engineered (and this is all speculation), I'm not sure it would be for military purposes. It's doesn't seem with targeted enough or lethal enough for that purpose.
For instance, the mortality rate of Anthrax can be in excess of 80%.
SB |
Does it need to be lethal on a large immediate scale though? Seems to me COVID 19 is the perfect virus if you want disrupt world economies? Of course this makes little sense considering it hit the Chinese too, but to what extent? Maybe the Chinese are more than willing to accept collateral damage if it achieves its intended goal?
I could be talking bollox though...... |  | | |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:51 - May 30 with 2947 views | bluelagos |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:20 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
Indeed, those are fair points.
Although I wonder if people might be willing to accept restrictions a lot quicker if it killed 10 in 100 or 30 in 100 and was across all ages equally.
There are specifics about C19 which make some people think it doesn't affect them and isn't their problem.
SB |
I don't think there's any debate the general public would be far more open to restrictions if the need were beyond doubt. Look at how much we have adapted this past 15 months.
I remember very grudgingly wearing a mask when they were first brought it and now it is barely an issue tbh. Most of us do get used to doing things differently, just takes a little time.
The selling point has to be - the earlier we adopt xyz, the shorter the restrictions and the sooner we are free again. If that is well argued, clearly communicated then people do/have adapted.
And we need no ambiguous rules (amber countries ffs) and people will largely get on it with, grudgingly maybe, but that isn't a massive issue in the scheme of things. |  |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:54 - May 30 with 2933 views | mikeybloo88 |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:43 - May 30 by Guthrum |
It's always been "feasible" to some extent. But that doesn't mean it actually happened.
For obvious reasons, labs dealing with dangerous substances tend to have very strong precautions in place to prevent those escaping. Including monitoring the health of staff. Researchers know the nature of what they're handling and are unlikely to take a blase approach to any spillage (for their own health, if nothing else).
So how how might it have got from inside a secure lab to the local market, where the earliest cases have been traced to? |
The possibility it wasn't an accident should not be ruled out...an abhorrent thought, but then so is the Chinese regime. |  | | |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:58 - May 30 with 2932 views | Darth_Koont |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:49 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
It does look bad but there are still some scientific reasons why it's not widely accepted. The main one of these is that the virus wasn't optimised and it wasn't using a framework that's been used before.
Of course they could have been in the early stages of trying something new but the location of a virus lab specialising in bat coronavirus research correlating with the location of a bat coronavirus outbreak is always going to cause questions.
If it does turn out to be true we shouldn't be dealing with the Chinese at all and neither should anyone else. They should be totally cutoff by the world until the a more transparent and accountable regime is in place.
It would be very hard of course given the interconnected nature of world trade but this would be one that's too big to turn a blind eye to (unlike the Uighurs it seems).
I think it's going to be very hard to prove even if it's true and might require a leak from within China. When it was mentioned last year they said it could have started in the US and then made its way to China, it's simply not something they are willing to be open about at all.
SB |
I’m going with unlikely as it’s effectively the proximity of the lab to the original recorded outbreak that is the only noteworthy thing.
A virology lab in China studying coronavirus isn’t that strange given SARS has long been the focus over there. Ditto bat coronaviruses which for years have seemed to indicate bats as a principal vector.
Was there a connection between the lab’s researchers travelling around Southern China collecting samples, getting infected themselves and bringing that back to Wuhan? Very possibly.
But it taps into a narrative that is told about China and its threat. Well, if China is capable of releasing a new virus to damage Western economies then we’re certainly capable of telling and believing that story to discredit and marginalise them. And I think it also taps into an anti-science narrative where people who are establishing new knowledge are seen as a problem rather than a solution.
All in all, I’m going with probably not. If the proximity to the lab is the clincher then you’d have thought that the secret release of the virus would have been planned better. And why even release it within the Chinese borders let alone a mile away? |  |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:59 - May 30 with 2923 views | Guthrum |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:47 - May 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Hmm....military bio research center researching coronavirus in bats or bat sh@gs someone's pangolin dinner or some such...I wonder? |
Put it another way, material is leaked from a secure laboratory set up for handling dangerous material, with all the precautions that involves ... or two species living in the same environment come into contact, with one of them being among the most poached and trafficked animals in the world, partly due to its use in traditional Chinese medicine. | |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:04 - May 30 with 2902 views | Guthrum |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:54 - May 30 by mikeybloo88 |
The possibility it wasn't an accident should not be ruled out...an abhorrent thought, but then so is the Chinese regime. |
It would have been an accident either way. No sane government is going to deliberately release a new and little understood disease into large and economically important city with no checks and controls on its spread.
That would be like Boris Johnson one morning deciding to nuke Manchester to see if the new version of Trident actually works. | |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:08 - May 30 with 2881 views | Guthrum |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:53 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
If it was engineered (and this is all speculation), I'm not sure it would be for military purposes. It's doesn't seem with targeted enough or lethal enough for that purpose.
For instance, the mortality rate of Anthrax can be in excess of 80%.
SB |
It's also not easy enough to deliver (the spores don't last all that long on surfaces), spreads too slowly and persists too long in the human population. You couldn't effectively air-drop Covid as an area denial weapon. | |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:12 - May 30 with 2864 views | Guthrum |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 08:50 - May 30 by solomon |
Does it need to be lethal on a large immediate scale though? Seems to me COVID 19 is the perfect virus if you want disrupt world economies? Of course this makes little sense considering it hit the Chinese too, but to what extent? Maybe the Chinese are more than willing to accept collateral damage if it achieves its intended goal?
I could be talking bollox though...... |
If China damages the world economy, it destroys its own. Their entire prosperity is based on export. Trash the overseas markets and they hurl themselves back 50 years. | |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:22 - May 30 with 2829 views | Leaky |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:53 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
If it was engineered (and this is all speculation), I'm not sure it would be for military purposes. It's doesn't seem with targeted enough or lethal enough for that purpose.
For instance, the mortality rate of Anthrax can be in excess of 80%.
SB |
Or it could beit wasn't deigned to kill. Just cause economic turmoil around the globe. However that would seem tobe somewhat of an own goal to china's economy. |  | | |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:26 - May 30 with 2812 views | Chrisd |
Without a doubt, it will be a real challenge. From reading comments from English residents based in Wuhan, the Chinese Government have massaged the death figures there and haven’t been very up front and honest. This pandemic has had such an impact globally - if proved - China could be in serious problems. |  |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:38 - May 30 with 2724 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 07:49 - May 30 by StokieBlue |
It does look bad but there are still some scientific reasons why it's not widely accepted. The main one of these is that the virus wasn't optimised and it wasn't using a framework that's been used before.
Of course they could have been in the early stages of trying something new but the location of a virus lab specialising in bat coronavirus research correlating with the location of a bat coronavirus outbreak is always going to cause questions.
If it does turn out to be true we shouldn't be dealing with the Chinese at all and neither should anyone else. They should be totally cutoff by the world until the a more transparent and accountable regime is in place.
It would be very hard of course given the interconnected nature of world trade but this would be one that's too big to turn a blind eye to (unlike the Uighurs it seems).
I think it's going to be very hard to prove even if it's true and might require a leak from within China. When it was mentioned last year they said it could have started in the US and then made its way to China, it's simply not something they are willing to be open about at all.
SB |
Wasn’t the theory of a leak already investigated and dismissed by the WHO? |  |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:38 - May 30 with 2722 views | Guthrum |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:26 - May 30 by Chrisd |
Without a doubt, it will be a real challenge. From reading comments from English residents based in Wuhan, the Chinese Government have massaged the death figures there and haven’t been very up front and honest. This pandemic has had such an impact globally - if proved - China could be in serious problems. |
The problem is, what can other nations do?
Lots of countries owe China money or favours. The developed world's populations are addicted to cheap goods from China. The developing world's infrastructure is supplied and built by them. They have cornered the market in a lot of essential resources (e.g. rare earths). While not quite in the first rank, they are militarily quite formidable. Sanctions are notoriously ineffective. | |
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| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 10:50 - May 30 with 2575 views | mikeybloo88 |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:22 - May 30 by Leaky |
Or it could beit wasn't deigned to kill. Just cause economic turmoil around the globe. However that would seem tobe somewhat of an own goal to china's economy. |
Their economy hasn't exactly done too badly in the last year from it... | | | |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 11:59 - May 30 with 2459 views | RegencyBlue |
It’s always been ‘feasible’ and more than likely!
It will never be proved for certain now because the Chinese have been given 18 months to cover their tracks but anyone who thinks it’s mere coincidence that this virus decided to spontaneously cross from animals to humans a couple of kilometres down the road from the laboratory where it’s been studied for more than a decade probably also believes in the tooth fairy!
It’s a possibility that various Governments and the WHO have been trying to bury from the start. Can you imagine the outrage had this happened in America? For some reason the Chinese have been given a free pass and we will never get to the truth now. |  | | |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 12:04 - May 30 with 2432 views | RegencyBlue |
| Wuhan lab leak is ‘feasible’ say British spies on 09:38 - May 30 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Wasn’t the theory of a leak already investigated and dismissed by the WHO? |
You mean the WHO run by the Ethiopian who many consider to be a war criminal and who was heavily backed for the post by China? | | | |
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