| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here 20:18 - Jul 25 with 5988 views | Darth_Koont |
It highlights the same problem with the current Blairite tribute act – they’re clueless and detached from the real world.
And that’s without even going into the disastrous semi-crusade that masqueraded as foreign policy. We need better from a supposed opposition. |  |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:44 - Jul 26 with 2370 views | Darth_Koont |
The last lines must have smarted, Lowers.
“3.5m votes gone by 2001, vote share down to 35% by 2005. You got 3 harvests in but let the land go barren.”
And now you want to raise it from the dead like some Mandelson’s Monster? Delusional, self-serving, centre-right nonsense the country can ill afford. | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:53 - Jul 26 with 2350 views | CaptMickMills |
Regarding domestic policies Blair government was most successful UK government of 'recently times. Foreign policies obviously much more debatable.
Need an effective centralist government with a vision and strategy. Rather than more extreme left wing and right wing parties. |  | | |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:14 - Jul 26 with 2315 views | Darth_Koont |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:53 - Jul 26 by CaptMickMills |
Regarding domestic policies Blair government was most successful UK government of 'recently times. Foreign policies obviously much more debatable.
Need an effective centralist government with a vision and strategy. Rather than more extreme left wing and right wing parties. |
Think that’s a pretty superficial level and a very low bar if so. New Labour cemented the neoliberal direction of the country and increased regional and wealth inequalities under its watch. And did nothing about housing or investing in our public services, preferring to outsource that to private enterprise.
After 13 years in power they singularly failed to provide an alternative and even good initiatives like Sure Start were pretty much nullified within a few years of them leaving.
But we can always disagree about the effectiveness of New Labour and there is some grounds for saying that they were better than a Tory government. Just not nearly enough – and that free-market tweaking is certainly not what we need now with soon to be 5 million kids living in poverty, continued regional inequality, low productivity, a desperately poor outlook for young people, climate change, AI/automation about to further unbalance a skewed, financial-sector dominant economy.
Personally I don’t think someone like Mandelson and his politics is the answer at all. | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 18:26 - Jul 26 with 2174 views | gazzer1999 |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:14 - Jul 26 by Darth_Koont |
Think that’s a pretty superficial level and a very low bar if so. New Labour cemented the neoliberal direction of the country and increased regional and wealth inequalities under its watch. And did nothing about housing or investing in our public services, preferring to outsource that to private enterprise.
After 13 years in power they singularly failed to provide an alternative and even good initiatives like Sure Start were pretty much nullified within a few years of them leaving.
But we can always disagree about the effectiveness of New Labour and there is some grounds for saying that they were better than a Tory government. Just not nearly enough – and that free-market tweaking is certainly not what we need now with soon to be 5 million kids living in poverty, continued regional inequality, low productivity, a desperately poor outlook for young people, climate change, AI/automation about to further unbalance a skewed, financial-sector dominant economy.
Personally I don’t think someone like Mandelson and his politics is the answer at all. |
The problem is Blair knew he had to appeal to the Tory voters and did what he saw was right to get them, the trouble was it was Tory light. You have to go back to Harold Wilson for the last time a true Labour Party won an election and that was early 70's. Starmer is trying to appease all sides with little success, I think the Labour Party has served its original purpose and is now finished in its current state. Time for a new party compromising the best of all sides to come together and set out a true vision and not a half hearted one like we had from the tory and labour defectors prior to the last election.
Don't hold your breath though I can see BJ's party holding power for many years to come, but with a different leader as he has served his purpose. |  | | |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 18:53 - Jul 26 with 2129 views | Swansea_Blue |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:44 - Jul 26 by Darth_Koont |
The last lines must have smarted, Lowers.
“3.5m votes gone by 2001, vote share down to 35% by 2005. You got 3 harvests in but let the land go barren.”
And now you want to raise it from the dead like some Mandelson’s Monster? Delusional, self-serving, centre-right nonsense the country can ill afford. |
I’m not quite sure what’s going on here, but if you’re referring to raising Blairite-type Labour from the dead we’d be SIGNIFICANTLY better off as a country than we are now, in many areas. That’s all that really matters, even if it doesn’t align to your perfect vision. There’s no way your going to get what you want; the country won’t sanction it (for various reasons, and yes I’ve some sympathy with your cause, as money and influence are used to smear the opposition and mislead the electorate). But it is what it is, so why fight against the only current opposition, potentially further enabling our corrupt and incompetent govt? |  |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 19:40 - Jul 26 with 2058 views | tractordownsouth |
I won't go over the policy stuff but thought you'd be interested in seeing this. A long way from Blairism.
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 21:32 - Jul 26 with 1972 views | reusersfreekicks |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:44 - Jul 26 by Darth_Koont |
The last lines must have smarted, Lowers.
“3.5m votes gone by 2001, vote share down to 35% by 2005. You got 3 harvests in but let the land go barren.”
And now you want to raise it from the dead like some Mandelson’s Monster? Delusional, self-serving, centre-right nonsense the country can ill afford. |
I forget, have you brought this up before? |  | | |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:43 - Jul 27 with 1835 views | Darth_Koont |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 18:53 - Jul 26 by Swansea_Blue |
I’m not quite sure what’s going on here, but if you’re referring to raising Blairite-type Labour from the dead we’d be SIGNIFICANTLY better off as a country than we are now, in many areas. That’s all that really matters, even if it doesn’t align to your perfect vision. There’s no way your going to get what you want; the country won’t sanction it (for various reasons, and yes I’ve some sympathy with your cause, as money and influence are used to smear the opposition and mislead the electorate). But it is what it is, so why fight against the only current opposition, potentially further enabling our corrupt and incompetent govt? |
I’m mostly referring to the Labour right now holding the reins, with Mandelson and allies seemingly the power behind the throne. For me that’s not a good state of affairs for our country and the challenges that have been allowed to develop.
I believe we need some fundamental change and commitment to repair damaging divisions and inequalities in the UK. And to address the more global challenges like climate change.
To that end, I think an opposition party that will only tinker at the edges because they themselves are essentially neoliberal and committed to the status quo is a massive part of the problem. And millions of people don’t have the time to wait for them to fail.
There’s no point in being “Not as bad as the Tories” when it’s the continued refusal to address the underlying issues that keeps bringing us back here and let’s the Tories control the narrative. So electorally as well as in the real world this is looks like biting us in the @rse. | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:47 - Jul 27 with 1818 views | itfcjoe |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:43 - Jul 27 by Darth_Koont |
I’m mostly referring to the Labour right now holding the reins, with Mandelson and allies seemingly the power behind the throne. For me that’s not a good state of affairs for our country and the challenges that have been allowed to develop.
I believe we need some fundamental change and commitment to repair damaging divisions and inequalities in the UK. And to address the more global challenges like climate change.
To that end, I think an opposition party that will only tinker at the edges because they themselves are essentially neoliberal and committed to the status quo is a massive part of the problem. And millions of people don’t have the time to wait for them to fail.
There’s no point in being “Not as bad as the Tories” when it’s the continued refusal to address the underlying issues that keeps bringing us back here and let’s the Tories control the narrative. So electorally as well as in the real world this is looks like biting us in the @rse. |
I'd rather an opposition party get in power who are "Not as bad as the Tories" rather than one hand them an 80 seat majority but be able to pat themselves on the back for having good ideas. |  |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:51 - Jul 27 with 1803 views | Darth_Koont |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 19:40 - Jul 26 by tractordownsouth |
I won't go over the policy stuff but thought you'd be interested in seeing this. A long way from Blairism.
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The question is whether to believe him. This after all is just a small part of one of his leadership pledges that he’s done sod all to back up – and more often broken.
This would apply to rail, mail and utilities too? | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:55 - Jul 27 with 1790 views | hype313 |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:47 - Jul 27 by itfcjoe |
I'd rather an opposition party get in power who are "Not as bad as the Tories" rather than one hand them an 80 seat majority but be able to pat themselves on the back for having good ideas. |
When the opposition see success as "Winning the argument" you know we have a cesspit of political parties. |  |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:00 - Jul 27 with 1774 views | Darth_Koont |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:47 - Jul 27 by itfcjoe |
I'd rather an opposition party get in power who are "Not as bad as the Tories" rather than one hand them an 80 seat majority but be able to pat themselves on the back for having good ideas. |
Then nothing will basically change. Which I suspect is what you want. I know that’s certainly what the Labour right want. | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:06 - Jul 27 with 1757 views | Darth_Koont |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:55 - Jul 27 by hype313 |
When the opposition see success as "Winning the argument" you know we have a cesspit of political parties. |
Surprise, surprise, it was a headline writer who made that overall characterisation. Corbyn was specific on the areas where the “arguments were won” as shown by the polling.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regre | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:37 - Jul 27 with 1710 views | chicoazul |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:00 - Jul 27 by Darth_Koont |
Then nothing will basically change. Which I suspect is what you want. I know that’s certainly what the Labour right want. |
Doesn’t this imply the country didn’t change under Blair Brown and Mandelson? I think it did. They were an insurgent force.
In many ways your obstinacy could be seen as damaging the people I know you genuinely want to help. |  |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:43 - Jul 27 with 1686 views | itfcjoe |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:37 - Jul 27 by chicoazul |
Doesn’t this imply the country didn’t change under Blair Brown and Mandelson? I think it did. They were an insurgent force.
In many ways your obstinacy could be seen as damaging the people I know you genuinely want to help. |
"What did the Romans ever do for us?" | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:57 - Jul 27 with 1660 views | Swansea_Blue |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:43 - Jul 27 by Darth_Koont |
I’m mostly referring to the Labour right now holding the reins, with Mandelson and allies seemingly the power behind the throne. For me that’s not a good state of affairs for our country and the challenges that have been allowed to develop.
I believe we need some fundamental change and commitment to repair damaging divisions and inequalities in the UK. And to address the more global challenges like climate change.
To that end, I think an opposition party that will only tinker at the edges because they themselves are essentially neoliberal and committed to the status quo is a massive part of the problem. And millions of people don’t have the time to wait for them to fail.
There’s no point in being “Not as bad as the Tories” when it’s the continued refusal to address the underlying issues that keeps bringing us back here and let’s the Tories control the narrative. So electorally as well as in the real world this is looks like biting us in the @rse. |
It certainly seems like the membership aren’t happy - they’ve been haemorrhaging members over the last 12 months. | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 11:28 - Jul 27 with 1620 views | Texaco73 |
Having grown up through 70's and 80's. I would say that new labour was the first time I felt that I was living in a fairer country with better opportunities for those of us at the bottom of the economic ladder.
No doubt, Blair lost the plot eventually but it was still the best governments for me personally in my lifetime so far.
As we have an extreme right government currently, I think it is somewhat easy to fall into the thought that an extreme left is needed to counter the situation.
IMO both extremes are bad for happiness.
If you look at the world population happiness index, the top countries all have one thing in common: Centre right or centre left liberal governments. |  | | |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 11:31 - Jul 27 with 1613 views | chicoazul |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 11:28 - Jul 27 by Texaco73 |
Having grown up through 70's and 80's. I would say that new labour was the first time I felt that I was living in a fairer country with better opportunities for those of us at the bottom of the economic ladder.
No doubt, Blair lost the plot eventually but it was still the best governments for me personally in my lifetime so far.
As we have an extreme right government currently, I think it is somewhat easy to fall into the thought that an extreme left is needed to counter the situation.
IMO both extremes are bad for happiness.
If you look at the world population happiness index, the top countries all have one thing in common: Centre right or centre left liberal governments. |
Extreme right, lol wut | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 11:38 - Jul 27 with 1596 views | Darth_Koont |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:43 - Jul 27 by itfcjoe |
"What did the Romans ever do for us?" |
Not nearly enough, is the answer to your analogy. The Romans brought infrastructure, you’ll remember.
New Labour tinkered at the edges while surfing an upswing in the global economy until that turned. The systemic and structural problems and imbalances were in fact worse after that.
The big-brained centrists have just nodded approvingly and missed the point. I suspect because they don’t want to invest in society either – or heaven forbid pay the taxes of an advanced economy. | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 11:40 - Jul 27 with 1593 views | Darth_Koont |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 11:28 - Jul 27 by Texaco73 |
Having grown up through 70's and 80's. I would say that new labour was the first time I felt that I was living in a fairer country with better opportunities for those of us at the bottom of the economic ladder.
No doubt, Blair lost the plot eventually but it was still the best governments for me personally in my lifetime so far.
As we have an extreme right government currently, I think it is somewhat easy to fall into the thought that an extreme left is needed to counter the situation.
IMO both extremes are bad for happiness.
If you look at the world population happiness index, the top countries all have one thing in common: Centre right or centre left liberal governments. |
There is nothing extreme about genuine social democracy. That’s the right-wing press talking. | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 11:55 - Jul 27 with 1570 views | Darth_Koont |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:57 - Jul 27 by Swansea_Blue |
It certainly seems like the membership aren’t happy - they’ve been haemorrhaging members over the last 12 months. |
Indeed. It’s a shambles of a supposedly democratic organisation currently.
I know you’re particularly interested in climate change. We’ve had politicians and parties talk and tinker but ultimately it’s always too little too late. That’s how I feel about the current leadership (or certainly its advisors) on most other issues too.
The sooner they get out the way the sooner we can address the real state of the UK and the world. And actually have this “adult” and rational politics we were promised. | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 13:06 - Jul 27 with 1503 views | itfcjoe |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 10:57 - Jul 27 by Swansea_Blue |
It certainly seems like the membership aren’t happy - they’ve been haemorrhaging members over the last 12 months. |
UKIP took over the Tory party and won, they inserted people at every level to get out certain type of One Nation Tory
Momentum took over the Labour party and lost, again inserting people at every level to try and drive out the more centrist people.
I'd imagine most people leaving the membership are Momentum entryists | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 13:14 - Jul 27 with 1481 views | thebooks |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 09:47 - Jul 27 by itfcjoe |
I'd rather an opposition party get in power who are "Not as bad as the Tories" rather than one hand them an 80 seat majority but be able to pat themselves on the back for having good ideas. |
That assumes a Starmer-led, second-referendum supporting Labour party would have done any better. |  | | |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 13:24 - Jul 27 with 1460 views | itfcjoe |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 13:14 - Jul 27 by thebooks |
That assumes a Starmer-led, second-referendum supporting Labour party would have done any better. |
It's hard to imagine it doing as badly | |
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| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 13:37 - Jul 27 with 1438 views | Clapham_Junction |
| A great skewering of New Labour (and New New Labour) here on 13:06 - Jul 27 by itfcjoe |
UKIP took over the Tory party and won, they inserted people at every level to get out certain type of One Nation Tory
Momentum took over the Labour party and lost, again inserting people at every level to try and drive out the more centrist people.
I'd imagine most people leaving the membership are Momentum entryists |
I think the last bit is tabloid-esque drivel. The idea that there are tens of thousands of entryists is bizarre. I'm sure there were a few, but I can't see it being more than a few hundred. I would say the vast majority of new members were young-ish people enthused by the potential for a different direction in politics. It's not really surprising that they're disillusioned with the party now. |  | | |
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