| Insulate Britain 09:16 - Oct 30 with 1504 views | Darth_Koont |
This is a rather good explanation of who Insulate Britain are and exactly why they’re doing what they’re doing. Also an example of why our media is generally so awful, both in their current coverage but also in creating the void in public debate that makes direct action and civil disobedience the only remaining option.
Also. If you are still vehemently opposed to Insulate Britain and concerned about their risking of people’s lives, it might be interesting to ponder why the authorities are refusing to arrest them. |  |
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| Insulate Britain on 09:38 - Oct 30 with 1421 views | NthQldITFC |
Are you saying that they are NOT just rabid loons delaying ambulances and upsetting good, honest road users for no good reason, and that as such they DON'T absolutely deserve to be subjected to fanatical derision and abuse?
Damn - I thought this was a position I could be comfortably binary on. Oh well, I'll have to give the seriousness of the underlying issues some proper thought then. |  |
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| Insulate Britain on 09:43 - Oct 30 with 1395 views | Plums |
Thanks for posting. A really interesting listen and explanation of their cause which really needs to be the cause of all of us. |  |
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| Insulate Britain on 09:51 - Oct 30 with 1350 views | Darth_Koont |
| Insulate Britain on 09:38 - Oct 30 by NthQldITFC |
Are you saying that they are NOT just rabid loons delaying ambulances and upsetting good, honest road users for no good reason, and that as such they DON'T absolutely deserve to be subjected to fanatical derision and abuse?
Damn - I thought this was a position I could be comfortably binary on. Oh well, I'll have to give the seriousness of the underlying issues some proper thought then. |
Haha!
Yes, it turns out it’s kinda important and not just about causing a traffic jam and a few delays in people’s important lives.
If people want to get an understanding of the stakes then hop forward to the last 5 minutes where there’s a depiction of life in the full-on climate catastrophe we’ll likely see in the next 20-30 years time. You have to wonder if human society (and our children) will survive that in anything like its current form. [Post edited 30 Oct 2021 9:51]
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| Insulate Britain on 09:57 - Oct 30 with 1319 views | GlasgowBlue |
I'll give that a listen later DK. I don't think anyone with a modicum of intelligence disagrees with their cause or that of XR. It is their tactics that are putting people off.
If we are going to save this planet, and it really needs saving, then we are going to have to get the majority on board.
This may be addressed in the video so I'll comment more once I view. |  |
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| The world’s population are in complete denial of the problem at hand on 09:58 - Oct 30 with 1316 views | unstableblue |
The media and the wider public’s reaction to their protests, branding them ‘lefties’, ‘loons’ and ‘tree huggers’ sums up a worrying trend of trivialising the MASSIVE environmental challenges we face… venerating growth, consumption
Why we should support Insulate Britain is simple… the government has kicked the can down the road on insulating our terribly inefficient housing stick for decades, is it now 4 failed initiatives/schemes?
This is low hanging fruit, no brainier, job creating, and gas crisis supporting AND environmentally sound action - WESTMINSTER SORT IT OUT |  |
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| Insulate Britain on 10:08 - Oct 30 with 1277 views | Darth_Koont |
| Insulate Britain on 09:57 - Oct 30 by GlasgowBlue |
I'll give that a listen later DK. I don't think anyone with a modicum of intelligence disagrees with their cause or that of XR. It is their tactics that are putting people off.
If we are going to save this planet, and it really needs saving, then we are going to have to get the majority on board.
This may be addressed in the video so I'll comment more once I view. |
Yeah, it’s covered in the video. But it’s about getting our government to act not get the majority onside.
In that sense it’s like Covid – it’s not up to people it’s up to governments responding to the facts and the scientific consensus. Raising awareness of those facts and the scientific consensus around climate change, and specifically that insulating homes is one of the lowest hanging fruit – and forcing the authorities to get involved, is the last resort.
What I would say re: Covid is that it’s about getting people onside because personal behaviour/responsibility is the biggest factor in reducing or increasing transmission and its risks. That’s not the case with climate change – it really needs governments with their capital spending, infrastructure investment and regulatory control to drive change. | |
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| Insulate Britain on 10:53 - Oct 30 with 1162 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Insulate Britain on 10:08 - Oct 30 by Darth_Koont |
Yeah, it’s covered in the video. But it’s about getting our government to act not get the majority onside.
In that sense it’s like Covid – it’s not up to people it’s up to governments responding to the facts and the scientific consensus. Raising awareness of those facts and the scientific consensus around climate change, and specifically that insulating homes is one of the lowest hanging fruit – and forcing the authorities to get involved, is the last resort.
What I would say re: Covid is that it’s about getting people onside because personal behaviour/responsibility is the biggest factor in reducing or increasing transmission and its risks. That’s not the case with climate change – it really needs governments with their capital spending, infrastructure investment and regulatory control to drive change. |
We have a popularist government. If Insulate Britain are pissing off the majority of the general public then it is far easier for the government not to act.
In fact it makes it easier for the government to dismiss them as left wing loons stopping people getting to their cancer appointments.
Alternatively, the opposition should be flying the flag for the cause and pressurising the government to act. But Strarmer has one eye on the next election and not pissing off Joe Public, so there is no mainstream voice in politics highlighting what needs to be done.
Perhaps it's time for the left to coalesce around the Greens, as they do in most of Europe, rather than cling to what they want the Labour party to be. | |
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| Insulate Britain on 11:13 - Oct 30 with 1109 views | Darth_Koont |
| Insulate Britain on 10:53 - Oct 30 by GlasgowBlue |
We have a popularist government. If Insulate Britain are pissing off the majority of the general public then it is far easier for the government not to act.
In fact it makes it easier for the government to dismiss them as left wing loons stopping people getting to their cancer appointments.
Alternatively, the opposition should be flying the flag for the cause and pressurising the government to act. But Strarmer has one eye on the next election and not pissing off Joe Public, so there is no mainstream voice in politics highlighting what needs to be done.
Perhaps it's time for the left to coalesce around the Greens, as they do in most of Europe, rather than cling to what they want the Labour party to be. |
No disagreement from me re: a Green movement being the driver of a progressive alliance. With PR thrown in too. Labour and the LibDems are busted flushes on their own “merits” anyway.
But I think the issue with XR and Insulate Britain is that getting the public onside over the past couple of decades hasn’t really worked either. Certainly not in terms of getting governments to act sufficiently quickly or radically.
If Green populism can drive a new electoral challenge and shift in government policy when in power that remains to be seen. But as UKIP showed (for evil not good) you need forces and awareness outside party politics to drag the Overton window with you. If XR and Insulate Britain do raise that awareness and tension, it paves the way for more moderate-seeming voices to legitimise the underlying issue and get people onside.
UKIP/Leave/Brexit Party would never have been a real force if it weren’t for Labour and Tories embracing the core anti-immigration rhetoric while in government let alone in opposition. I think the same is true for the rather more real and evidence-based fight against climate catastrophe. | |
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| Insulate Britain on 11:14 - Oct 30 with 1103 views | Swansea_Blue |
I suppose the answer to whether Insulate Britain's tactics are appropriate is whether anyone can answer the question 'before Insulate Britain, what other campaigns have there been around insulation and improving heating efficiency in homes and how effective were they?'.
I'd struggle to think of any. Yet now we have the issue front and centre of the UK media, whilst we're hosting COP26, and it's got the backing of several construction industry groups. All at a time when the government are scrapping grants like the Green Homes Grant, which used to provide support for householders to insulate their homes.
Seems like they've actually planned this really well. I wasn't sure of the tight focus of the campaign initially, but it seems like only one simple message and drastic action is the best way to get attention. |  |
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| Insulate Britain on 11:17 - Oct 30 with 1087 views | pointofblue |
| Insulate Britain on 10:08 - Oct 30 by Darth_Koont |
Yeah, it’s covered in the video. But it’s about getting our government to act not get the majority onside.
In that sense it’s like Covid – it’s not up to people it’s up to governments responding to the facts and the scientific consensus. Raising awareness of those facts and the scientific consensus around climate change, and specifically that insulating homes is one of the lowest hanging fruit – and forcing the authorities to get involved, is the last resort.
What I would say re: Covid is that it’s about getting people onside because personal behaviour/responsibility is the biggest factor in reducing or increasing transmission and its risks. That’s not the case with climate change – it really needs governments with their capital spending, infrastructure investment and regulatory control to drive change. |
I think the problem is is it’s comes across as blackmail. It’s a far less extreme form of terrorism; I’m not saying for a moment IB are terrorists in the usual sense but the tactics are similar is causing pain and, to a degree, panic in the public to try and change a government’s course. A government’s (not just the current rabble) response to these tactics is to double down - if they now agree to provide funding for insulation then it could be seen as a weakness and other causes might try the same approach, or an offshoot on XR or IB may do it again for another reason. The only solution is to ride it out to show everyone this won’t work so there’s a lesser chance of this being attempted again. |  |
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| The world’s population are in complete denial of the problem at hand on 11:22 - Oct 30 with 1072 views | wkj |
| The world’s population are in complete denial of the problem at hand on 09:58 - Oct 30 by unstableblue |
The media and the wider public’s reaction to their protests, branding them ‘lefties’, ‘loons’ and ‘tree huggers’ sums up a worrying trend of trivialising the MASSIVE environmental challenges we face… venerating growth, consumption
Why we should support Insulate Britain is simple… the government has kicked the can down the road on insulating our terribly inefficient housing stick for decades, is it now 4 failed initiatives/schemes?
This is low hanging fruit, no brainier, job creating, and gas crisis supporting AND environmentally sound action - WESTMINSTER SORT IT OUT |
Worrying trend? My friend - that worrying trend stated a long time ago, we are well beyond the tipping point now where tribalism is the standard operating protocol for one and all.
Westminster wont sort anything out- it's much easier to win by division than it is to actually be arsed to make a manifesto (and follow it) |  |
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| Insulate Britain on 11:23 - Oct 30 with 1066 views | Darth_Koont |
| Insulate Britain on 11:14 - Oct 30 by Swansea_Blue |
I suppose the answer to whether Insulate Britain's tactics are appropriate is whether anyone can answer the question 'before Insulate Britain, what other campaigns have there been around insulation and improving heating efficiency in homes and how effective were they?'.
I'd struggle to think of any. Yet now we have the issue front and centre of the UK media, whilst we're hosting COP26, and it's got the backing of several construction industry groups. All at a time when the government are scrapping grants like the Green Homes Grant, which used to provide support for householders to insulate their homes.
Seems like they've actually planned this really well. I wasn't sure of the tight focus of the campaign initially, but it seems like only one simple message and drastic action is the best way to get attention. |
Yeah, it seemed to be a very specific and too narrow a focus given the overall challenge of climate change.
But when you understand how much this is a no-brainer, economically as well as environmentally, then you see it as a line in the sand for whether our government(s) are fit for purpose in the climate change debate especially the measures to combat it.
It seems Insulate Britain really are getting at the heart of the problem. Because if every pound spent on insulation saves 3 pounds in energy costs, and still the government won’t do anything, then we really might be fecked. | |
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| Insulate Britain on 11:30 - Oct 30 with 1043 views | Darth_Koont |
| Insulate Britain on 11:17 - Oct 30 by pointofblue |
I think the problem is is it’s comes across as blackmail. It’s a far less extreme form of terrorism; I’m not saying for a moment IB are terrorists in the usual sense but the tactics are similar is causing pain and, to a degree, panic in the public to try and change a government’s course. A government’s (not just the current rabble) response to these tactics is to double down - if they now agree to provide funding for insulation then it could be seen as a weakness and other causes might try the same approach, or an offshoot on XR or IB may do it again for another reason. The only solution is to ride it out to show everyone this won’t work so there’s a lesser chance of this being attempted again. |
The whole point of this is so the government can’t ride it out. Like they would do with approved protests/demonstrations and the charade of going through the “proper” democratic channels.
The good thing is that it doesn’t need to be ramped up to violence. It seems that disturbing traffic is plenty to get this stuff into the public eye and raise awareness.
Soon the conversation and pressure will turn to why the authorities aren’t arresting these people. And on the other hand why the government isn’t doing anything about one of the most effective and cost-effective environmental measures we can take. I don’t see them riding that out forever. | |
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| Insulate Britain on 11:36 - Oct 30 with 1019 views | giant_stow |
| Insulate Britain on 11:30 - Oct 30 by Darth_Koont |
The whole point of this is so the government can’t ride it out. Like they would do with approved protests/demonstrations and the charade of going through the “proper” democratic channels.
The good thing is that it doesn’t need to be ramped up to violence. It seems that disturbing traffic is plenty to get this stuff into the public eye and raise awareness.
Soon the conversation and pressure will turn to why the authorities aren’t arresting these people. And on the other hand why the government isn’t doing anything about one of the most effective and cost-effective environmental measures we can take. I don’t see them riding that out forever. |
Your question on why the protestors aren't been locked up is a good one. What's your theory? |  |
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| Insulate Britain on 11:42 - Oct 30 with 1002 views | pointofblue |
| Insulate Britain on 11:23 - Oct 30 by Darth_Koont |
Yeah, it seemed to be a very specific and too narrow a focus given the overall challenge of climate change.
But when you understand how much this is a no-brainer, economically as well as environmentally, then you see it as a line in the sand for whether our government(s) are fit for purpose in the climate change debate especially the measures to combat it.
It seems Insulate Britain really are getting at the heart of the problem. Because if every pound spent on insulation saves 3 pounds in energy costs, and still the government won’t do anything, then we really might be fecked. |
There is an issue with this that it is reliant on media coverage. You block a 1000 people on the M25 and eventually it becomes the norm. People avoid the road, the press move on to probably whatever Harry and Meghan are up to. At the moment, it’s getting attention but for the impact to continue to be heard it relies on headlines to continue.
Reading between the lines, Cameron seems to think the remands for breaking bail are not happening because of the embarrassment that would cause leading to COP26. The problem is, if he’s right, then there will be a clampdown afterwards and, at this stage, it feels like the majority of the public will support the clampdown over the cause. | |
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| Insulate Britain on 11:55 - Oct 30 with 975 views | Darth_Koont |
| Insulate Britain on 11:36 - Oct 30 by giant_stow |
Your question on why the protestors aren't been locked up is a good one. What's your theory? |
Because then it’s in the legal system for the next few years and the issue doesn’t go away. Plus the government and authorities will be forced into making statements on record.
But I think this is also, as described in the interview, because of the COP 26 event. If the UK government is locking up climate protesters then that’s a particularly bad look at this time.
As it stands, I think the government should be very worried about the likely protests in Glasgow. Ramping those up by arresting and imprisoning people would make them even worse. | |
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| Insulate Britain on 12:20 - Oct 30 with 936 views | factual_blue |
Also, they generally annoy Massively Entitled People who quite frankly deserve to be upset.
So they're all right.
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| Insulate Britain on 12:31 - Oct 30 with 894 views | Digger77 |
| Insulate Britain on 12:20 - Oct 30 by factual_blue |
Also, they generally annoy Massively Entitled People who quite frankly deserve to be upset.
So they're all right.
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Entitled people.
Says the one with 'b0llocks to brexit' for their avatar, haha. Self awareness is strong here. | | | |
| Insulate Britain on 12:48 - Oct 30 with 822 views | fabian_illness |
I’ve had my last 2 houses cavity insulated under local authority schemes, about £250 a time I think it was.
I’m sure the loft was insulated FOC, also on a similar scheme.
There are relatively affordable ways to make a start. |  | | |
| Insulate Britain on 12:54 - Oct 30 with 791 views | Darth_Koont |
| Insulate Britain on 12:48 - Oct 30 by fabian_illness |
I’ve had my last 2 houses cavity insulated under local authority schemes, about £250 a time I think it was.
I’m sure the loft was insulated FOC, also on a similar scheme.
There are relatively affordable ways to make a start. |
Indeed. Although I expect a widescale, national rollout depends a bit too much on the amount of politicians who are beholden to energy companies and their interests.
Saving energy for the consumer and the planet also reduces the size of their cut. | |
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| The world’s population are in complete denial of the problem at hand on 13:46 - Oct 30 with 674 views | longtimefan |
| The world’s population are in complete denial of the problem at hand on 09:58 - Oct 30 by unstableblue |
The media and the wider public’s reaction to their protests, branding them ‘lefties’, ‘loons’ and ‘tree huggers’ sums up a worrying trend of trivialising the MASSIVE environmental challenges we face… venerating growth, consumption
Why we should support Insulate Britain is simple… the government has kicked the can down the road on insulating our terribly inefficient housing stick for decades, is it now 4 failed initiatives/schemes?
This is low hanging fruit, no brainier, job creating, and gas crisis supporting AND environmentally sound action - WESTMINSTER SORT IT OUT |
You say it’s low hanging fruit and a no brainier but it’s not necessarily the case. My house had cavity wall insulation added in 2011 as part of a government scheme. It became obvious a few years later that there were major problems with it’s installation, leaving us with damp and mould in multiple rooms. It’s taken near on 5 years of dispute and ultimately a successful court case to get it removed just this year. My wife now flatly refuses to consider getting it reinstalled as she can’t deal with the thought of a repeat of the problems we had. And it’s not like our case was exceptional, as speaking to the contractors we had remove it, they said they were run off there’re feet due to the amount of similar cases. [Post edited 30 Oct 2021 14:55]
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| Insulate Britain on 13:59 - Oct 30 with 653 views | Plums |
| Insulate Britain on 11:13 - Oct 30 by Darth_Koont |
No disagreement from me re: a Green movement being the driver of a progressive alliance. With PR thrown in too. Labour and the LibDems are busted flushes on their own “merits” anyway.
But I think the issue with XR and Insulate Britain is that getting the public onside over the past couple of decades hasn’t really worked either. Certainly not in terms of getting governments to act sufficiently quickly or radically.
If Green populism can drive a new electoral challenge and shift in government policy when in power that remains to be seen. But as UKIP showed (for evil not good) you need forces and awareness outside party politics to drag the Overton window with you. If XR and Insulate Britain do raise that awareness and tension, it paves the way for more moderate-seeming voices to legitimise the underlying issue and get people onside.
UKIP/Leave/Brexit Party would never have been a real force if it weren’t for Labour and Tories embracing the core anti-immigration rhetoric while in government let alone in opposition. I think the same is true for the rather more real and evidence-based fight against climate catastrophe. |
UKIP/Leave/Brexit Party were also significantly helped by funds from some very dubious sources. If there were equal forces for good out there, it would make a significant difference. Unfortunately it seems the opposite is true. | |
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