| Derby owe the taxman 13:24 - Nov 20 with 1276 views | Crawfordsboot |
That’s £29million they owe you and me!
Do I want them to survive or should they be liquidated with everything going to creditors? |  | | |  |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:30 - Nov 20 with 1230 views | ElderGrizzly |
Tax has to he paid in full too. No deals on the table there |  | | |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:35 - Nov 20 with 1212 views | blueislander |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:30 - Nov 20 by ElderGrizzly |
Tax has to he paid in full too. No deals on the table there |
Football clubs have typically avoided liquidation unless the unpaid debt is to the taxman. |  | | |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:37 - Nov 20 with 1197 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:35 - Nov 20 by blueislander |
Football clubs have typically avoided liquidation unless the unpaid debt is to the taxman. |
So to even get a sale, the new buyers need to pay £29m in tax before even getting into buying the actual club.
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| Derby owe the taxman on 13:49 - Nov 20 with 1131 views | ArnieM |
IR get their monies owed before anyone else …. Do I want Derby to survive ? Well no actually I don’t . They’ve been arrogant beyond belief over the last decade with their spending . Wilfully flouting the rules . They are still trying to dictate to the EFL regarding points deduction- a thoroughly amoral club IMO . |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 13:55 - Nov 20 with 1082 views | J2BLUE |
Their fans love Derby as much as we love Ipswich. I do not wish for any club to go to the wall. Yes, i'd love to see them fall through the leagues but no more than that. They had money and got a bit cocky. Remind you of anyone? |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 13:55 - Nov 20 with 1083 views | BlueBlueBluex2 |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:49 - Nov 20 by ArnieM |
IR get their monies owed before anyone else …. Do I want Derby to survive ? Well no actually I don’t . They’ve been arrogant beyond belief over the last decade with their spending . Wilfully flouting the rules . They are still trying to dictate to the EFL regarding points deduction- a thoroughly amoral club IMO . |
The fans should not be punished for bad ownership.
Auto relegation should be the punishment here. | | | |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:58 - Nov 20 with 1054 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
An alternative punishment, bought by Laurence Bassini and the slowest of deaths? |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:06 - Nov 20 with 992 views | Swansea_Blue |
Just you and me? Cool, I’ll split it with you straight down the middle. £20m to me and you can have the rest.
The one good thing about the humungous debts we built up under Evans is that they were internalised and not own to 3rd parties (bad) or the taxman (even baderer). |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:07 - Nov 20 with 994 views | Illinoisblue |
How do normal sane football clubs pay their taxes? Monthly, quarterly? How is it even possible to rack up 29 million in unpaid taxes? |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:13 - Nov 20 with 924 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Derby owe the taxman on 14:07 - Nov 20 by Illinoisblue |
How do normal sane football clubs pay their taxes? Monthly, quarterly? How is it even possible to rack up 29 million in unpaid taxes? |
If anyone knows the answer to that last question, please let me know. |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:15 - Nov 20 with 907 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:55 - Nov 20 by BlueBlueBluex2 |
The fans should not be punished for bad ownership.
Auto relegation should be the punishment here. |
I agree there. The fans don’t get to choose the owner. Imagine if ME had been twunk over the debts we built up with them and tried to shut us down. I can’t see anyone in here would be calling for us to go out of existence if that had happened. There has to be sanctions, but not terminal ones. There should be more they can do over bad owners as well. | |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:24 - Nov 20 with 873 views | Plums |
| Derby owe the taxman on 14:07 - Nov 20 by Illinoisblue |
How do normal sane football clubs pay their taxes? Monthly, quarterly? How is it even possible to rack up 29 million in unpaid taxes? |
I always find it amazing that an FD and auditors will allow a club/ company to operate with no provision for taxes due. |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:27 - Nov 20 with 831 views | Illinoisblue |
| Derby owe the taxman on 14:24 - Nov 20 by Plums |
I always find it amazing that an FD and auditors will allow a club/ company to operate with no provision for taxes due. |
It’s insane, isn’t it? I get that a lot of football clubs are part of a tangled complex web of companies but even so… madness | |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:27 - Nov 20 with 829 views | Radlett_blue |
| Derby owe the taxman on 14:07 - Nov 20 by Illinoisblue |
How do normal sane football clubs pay their taxes? Monthly, quarterly? How is it even possible to rack up 29 million in unpaid taxes? |
I guess much of this is PAYE on their huge wage bill. Why so many football clubs think that paying this is optional or that the Inland REvenue can be used as an interest-free lender, I don't know. I do know that the IR regularly pursue clubs who are lax in paying this. |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:30 - Nov 20 with 803 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:37 - Nov 20 by ElderGrizzly |
So to even get a sale, the new buyers need to pay £29m in tax before even getting into buying the actual club.
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Probably more a case of buy the debt and get the club free!! |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:36 - Nov 20 with 780 views | Illinoisblue |
| Derby owe the taxman on 14:27 - Nov 20 by Radlett_blue |
I guess much of this is PAYE on their huge wage bill. Why so many football clubs think that paying this is optional or that the Inland REvenue can be used as an interest-free lender, I don't know. I do know that the IR regularly pursue clubs who are lax in paying this. |
Seems to be an area where the EFL could help police that. Essentially tell clubs that unless you’re current on paying your taxes you won’t be allowed to get promoted. Might have helped the likes of Derby focus on what’s important while they were throwing money around | |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 14:42 - Nov 20 with 752 views | XYZ |
| Derby owe the taxman on 14:07 - Nov 20 by Illinoisblue |
How do normal sane football clubs pay their taxes? Monthly, quarterly? How is it even possible to rack up 29 million in unpaid taxes? |
PAYE is due monthly and these days HMRC's computer knows exactly what's due. It used to be that a football club would get a visit pretty pronto if it wasn't paid on time.
VAT is generally quarterly, but becomes monthly if the quarterly liability is above a threshold of around £3m or so.
Unfortunately HMRC is so under-resourced these days they simply don't have the people available to properly enforce it. I believe there were more operational cuts in the latest budget.
If Derby's playing budget was, say, £50m, then £29m would be 8-9 months worth of PAYE, at a rough guess.
The story says the debt is across several companies so it's not necessarily all football club related. | | | |
| Derby owe the taxman on 14:51 - Nov 20 with 709 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I don't want any club to go to the wall. Derby included, even nodge. The closest right now might be Newcastle but even then, no. Ultimately the club is the fans and any that goes to the wall harms football and wider society. That is why proper implementation of FFP rules and the likes is essential to stop these situations arising in the first place.
However, I do want the tax to be paid and the club to be duly punished for their blatant attempts to gamble everything on promotion to the promised land. The fans got to see some very good players, good football and competitive teams. It is only right that the punishment sees them having to reset from League 1 and we all know how difficult that is. If they are properly run at this level and they return without further financial mismanagement, I would have no problem and even argue that is the best outcome. |  |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 15:01 - Nov 20 with 672 views | ArnieM |
| Derby owe the taxman on 13:55 - Nov 20 by BlueBlueBluex2 |
The fans should not be punished for bad ownership.
Auto relegation should be the punishment here. |
The question was about the football club, not their fans . Fans are mostly the innocent bystanders in football these days and clubs owners / actions . | |
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| Derby owe the taxman on 15:38 - Nov 20 with 583 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Derby owe the taxman on 15:01 - Nov 20 by ArnieM |
The question was about the football club, not their fans . Fans are mostly the innocent bystanders in football these days and clubs owners / actions . |
Fans get what they are given as well we know.
However, I think the point is that for the fans the outcome of liquidation is rather different from other outcomes and not one I would wish on the fans of any club. We are talking liquidation like Bury here. | |
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