| Thread removed? 09:44 - Feb 6 with 4453 views | GlasgowBlue |
That’s a damn shame as it was interesting and educational imo. Racial stereotypes should be challenged, but with the exception of a couple of posters the issues were discussed with civility and understanding. |  |
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| Thread removed? on 09:48 - Feb 6 with 2300 views | MattinLondon |
The trouble with most threads concerning racism is that it’s inevitable that someone will bring up Jeremy Corbyn and then someone else will then retaliate. |  | | |
| Thread removed? on 09:51 - Feb 6 with 2272 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Thread removed? on 09:48 - Feb 6 by MattinLondon |
The trouble with most threads concerning racism is that it’s inevitable that someone will bring up Jeremy Corbyn and then someone else will then retaliate. |
That wasn’t the case with that thread. It was up for three days and evolved reasonably well over six pages. As I said there were some very informative contributions. And a few posters who were unaware of the Porajmos became better educated for it.
Edit. Anyway, for those who were unaware of the Roma Genocide:
https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/nazi-persecution/ [Post edited 6 Feb 2022 10:07]
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| Thread removed? on 10:10 - Feb 6 with 2192 views | PhilTWTD |
I was in two minds about it. I wasn't aware of it until late last night and I thought I'd leave it up for the reasons you outline and as the post in the thread you refer to was challenged by several posters, but had a second complaint about it this morning so changed my mind.
Not a perfect science. On the one hand I agree with you, but on the other should we allow prejudiced posts to remain? |  | | |
| Thread removed? on 10:12 - Feb 6 with 2159 views | Dubtractor |
Which thread was this? |  |
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| Thread removed? on 10:13 - Feb 6 with 2149 views | DanTheMan |
| Thread removed? on 10:12 - Feb 6 by Dubtractor |
Which thread was this? |
Without wanting to cause problems for Phil, I imagine the Jimmy Carr one. |  |
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| Thread removed? on 10:13 - Feb 6 with 2146 views | footers |
| Thread removed? on 10:12 - Feb 6 by Dubtractor |
Which thread was this? |
The one where gtsb racially abused travellers. |  |
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| Thread removed? on 10:13 - Feb 6 with 2134 views | Dubtractor |
| Thread removed? on 10:13 - Feb 6 by DanTheMan |
Without wanting to cause problems for Phil, I imagine the Jimmy Carr one. |
Aha. I only briefly dipped into that one. | |
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| Thread removed? on 10:43 - Feb 6 with 2040 views | gtsb1966 |
| Thread removed? on 10:13 - Feb 6 by footers |
The one where gtsb racially abused travellers. |
Only in your head. I never once racially abused anyone. You carry on though if it makes you feel better 🙂 |  | | |
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| Thread removed? on 10:47 - Feb 6 with 2007 views | eireblue |
| Thread removed? on 10:43 - Feb 6 by gtsb1966 |
Only in your head. I never once racially abused anyone. You carry on though if it makes you feel better 🙂 |
On this point, it is up to members of GRT community to decide if your posts were abusive. |  | | |
| Thread removed? on 11:07 - Feb 6 with 1939 views | MattinLondon |
| Thread removed? on 10:47 - Feb 6 by eireblue |
On this point, it is up to members of GRT community to decide if your posts were abusive. |
But what if some members of that community didn’t find that comment offensive? Does all of a sudden that vindicates that post?
Raises an interesting post of who judges whether or not a comment is actually offensive. | | | |
| Thread removed? on 11:17 - Feb 6 with 1896 views | eireblue |
| Thread removed? on 11:07 - Feb 6 by MattinLondon |
But what if some members of that community didn’t find that comment offensive? Does all of a sudden that vindicates that post?
Raises an interesting post of who judges whether or not a comment is actually offensive. |
The important part is, it isn’t up to the person making a comment to decide if it is racially offensive.
I used a term someone found offensive, others in the same community didn’t find it offensive, I still apologised, and changed the post.
It really isn’t that difficult. | | | |
| Thread removed? on 11:20 - Feb 6 with 1871 views | gtsb1966 |
| Thread removed? on 11:07 - Feb 6 by MattinLondon |
But what if some members of that community didn’t find that comment offensive? Does all of a sudden that vindicates that post?
Raises an interesting post of who judges whether or not a comment is actually offensive. |
Some members wouldn't find what I said offensive as there was a quote from travellers who said there are a some travellers who give the rest of them a bad name. What I should've said when discussing the mess and vandalism was SOME travellers. Footers however is just stirring as per usual. He's a bit weird in that way. | | | |
| Thread removed? on 11:21 - Feb 6 with 1873 views | bluelagos |
| Thread removed? on 10:43 - Feb 6 by gtsb1966 |
Only in your head. I never once racially abused anyone. You carry on though if it makes you feel better 🙂 |
1. You stated that they are the most disliked minority in the UK. Nothing abusive about that.
2. You said it was justified on the basis of your own experiences. You clearly implied in your comments that GRT people are the most hated minority because they deserve to be.
3. If you can't see why anyone of GRT heritage will be offended by that, that is your call. |  |
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| Thread removed? on 11:25 - Feb 6 with 1844 views | Seablu |
| Thread removed? on 10:10 - Feb 6 by PhilTWTD |
I was in two minds about it. I wasn't aware of it until late last night and I thought I'd leave it up for the reasons you outline and as the post in the thread you refer to was challenged by several posters, but had a second complaint about it this morning so changed my mind.
Not a perfect science. On the one hand I agree with you, but on the other should we allow prejudiced posts to remain? |
The prejudice displayed by gtsb should have been left up for all to see.
His ignorance had been systematically dissected.
Couldn’t it have just been locked instead? |  | | |
| Thread removed? on 11:28 - Feb 6 with 1837 views | gtsb1966 |
| Thread removed? on 11:21 - Feb 6 by bluelagos |
1. You stated that they are the most disliked minority in the UK. Nothing abusive about that.
2. You said it was justified on the basis of your own experiences. You clearly implied in your comments that GRT people are the most hated minority because they deserve to be.
3. If you can't see why anyone of GRT heritage will be offended by that, that is your call. |
1/ no I didn't, someone else did. I replied I could see why.
2/ I only used the word travellers
3/ see above.
4/ I'm not going to apologise for anything I wrote only that I should have stated it was a minority and not all. I was wrong there.
5/ it's Sunday. I'm going to walk the dogs and then have a beer and roast. Have a good day. | | | |
| Thread removed? on 11:32 - Feb 6 with 1810 views | bluelagos |
| Thread removed? on 11:25 - Feb 6 by Seablu |
The prejudice displayed by gtsb should have been left up for all to see.
His ignorance had been systematically dissected.
Couldn’t it have just been locked instead? |
It's a difficult one tbf.
I'd have preferred that if Phil deems the comments (even though challenged) should be removed - why not delete just the offensive comments?
Glassers posted quite an eye opener on prejudice against GRT and how his wife had faced and dealt with prejudice. Not many of us have interactions with travelers so it was an eye opener to read his comments.
It really does seem to be the only widely accepted/ignored form of racism in the UK. | |
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| Thread removed? on 11:36 - Feb 6 with 1760 views | ZXBlue |
| Thread removed? on 10:47 - Feb 6 by eireblue |
On this point, it is up to members of GRT community to decide if your posts were abusive. |
That is certainly the modern received wisdom.
I am far from convinced it is reasonable though.
(I am not making any comment about whether what was posted on this occasion was abusive / offensive) only on the principle that the objecting party gets to decide, which I think is problematic. |  | | |
| Thread removed? on 11:38 - Feb 6 with 1750 views | Ryorry |
| Thread removed? on 10:10 - Feb 6 by PhilTWTD |
I was in two minds about it. I wasn't aware of it until late last night and I thought I'd leave it up for the reasons you outline and as the post in the thread you refer to was challenged by several posters, but had a second complaint about it this morning so changed my mind.
Not a perfect science. On the one hand I agree with you, but on the other should we allow prejudiced posts to remain? |
Can't threads like that just be locked, after a final post from yourself explaining why? Or, as is apparently going to happen with one of the slave trader statues that was toppled over & daubed with paint by protesters, be moved to a 'museum' (online archive) in its current state, as a kind of 'living history' educational piece?
As GB said, it had great educational value & thoughtful debate, straight deletion means that's now lost forever, which is a great shame - not least because the same topic is likely to arise again and instead of being able to refer back to that thread, the same unacceptable argument from a small number of people is likely to arise again. |  |
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| Thread removed? on 11:40 - Feb 6 with 1720 views | Ryorry |
| Thread removed? on 11:25 - Feb 6 by Seablu |
The prejudice displayed by gtsb should have been left up for all to see.
His ignorance had been systematically dissected.
Couldn’t it have just been locked instead? |
Sorry, hadn't seen yours when I posted mine. | |
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| Thread removed? on 11:57 - Feb 6 with 1659 views | Pendejo |
| Thread removed? on 11:21 - Feb 6 by bluelagos |
1. You stated that they are the most disliked minority in the UK. Nothing abusive about that.
2. You said it was justified on the basis of your own experiences. You clearly implied in your comments that GRT people are the most hated minority because they deserve to be.
3. If you can't see why anyone of GRT heritage will be offended by that, that is your call. |
How does what you have written about an individual's attitude towards GRT to some this board have written about the Police?
I fully realise the Police are not a racial group, but some of the hostile attitudes (ACAB) would appear to me to legitimise the generalisation of an attitude towards a group as a whole... in the same way as manifested by racism.
With regards to GRT, I have had more positive than negative contact. The location I worked from 2004-2020 was next to a permanent traveller site, they owned our site and thus were protective; tipping us off when the "bad apples" were around and to organise extra security.
My own hatred is reserved for thieves, rapists, bullies and the bone idle.
Don't even hate Giant Ulla and the Naaaridge scum family, better to support them than Livmanchelarsetotham cunited spurty. [Post edited 6 Feb 2022 12:04]
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| Thread removed? on 12:08 - Feb 6 with 1588 views | lowhouseblue |
| Thread removed? on 11:36 - Feb 6 by ZXBlue |
That is certainly the modern received wisdom.
I am far from convinced it is reasonable though.
(I am not making any comment about whether what was posted on this occasion was abusive / offensive) only on the principle that the objecting party gets to decide, which I think is problematic. |
spot on. someone's subjective perception cannot trump everything else when it comes to abuse or other offences. again, no reference to the thread content intended at all. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Thread removed? on 12:10 - Feb 6 with 1578 views | bluelagos |
| Thread removed? on 11:57 - Feb 6 by Pendejo |
How does what you have written about an individual's attitude towards GRT to some this board have written about the Police?
I fully realise the Police are not a racial group, but some of the hostile attitudes (ACAB) would appear to me to legitimise the generalisation of an attitude towards a group as a whole... in the same way as manifested by racism.
With regards to GRT, I have had more positive than negative contact. The location I worked from 2004-2020 was next to a permanent traveller site, they owned our site and thus were protective; tipping us off when the "bad apples" were around and to organise extra security.
My own hatred is reserved for thieves, rapists, bullies and the bone idle.
Don't even hate Giant Ulla and the Naaaridge scum family, better to support them than Livmanchelarsetotham cunited spurty. [Post edited 6 Feb 2022 12:04]
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If you reedit your first sentence I'll try and answer when am clearer on your point/question.
Guessing it's: How does what you have written about an individual's attitude towards GRT <differ?> to <what> some this board have written about the Police?
Can only speak for myself - I try not to use ACAB (Which isn't always easy) as I recognise there are a few good apples. So mine is more of a MCAB which I appreciate won't sit easy with many people, but that is my genuine experience of the police.
As for those who do use ACAB (or even me using MCAB) - I'd make a couple of additional points.
1. The police are not an oppressed minority - they are the ones doing the nasty stuff (often)
2. Is only be highlighting the many failing of the police that we can hope to get change / improvement.
3. I think those in denial about the police failings are far more of a problem that anyone stating ACAB.
[Post edited 6 Feb 2022 12:22]
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| Thread removed? on 12:22 - Feb 6 with 1533 views | eireblue |
| Thread removed? on 11:36 - Feb 6 by ZXBlue |
That is certainly the modern received wisdom.
I am far from convinced it is reasonable though.
(I am not making any comment about whether what was posted on this occasion was abusive / offensive) only on the principle that the objecting party gets to decide, which I think is problematic. |
I think you only need to consider the converse argument.
A majority gets to decide how to address a minority?
Is that reasonable?
But pondering the rationale that is sometimes used.
Most of the littering I see is by white middle class British people. That is true of my experience. Should I use that observation whenever a topic about middle class white people come up, and characterise white middle class British people as a dirty littering populace, apart from a couple of good ones, that also don’t like littering,….but hardly any of them go and pick up litter.
Also, I think citing the rationale, oh sometimes people in that group don’t mind, is also very suspect.
I used to laugh a Irish jokes, sort of had too, don’t really hear that many anymore. | | | |
| Thread removed? on 12:24 - Feb 6 with 1497 views | ZXBlue |
| Thread removed? on 12:22 - Feb 6 by eireblue |
I think you only need to consider the converse argument.
A majority gets to decide how to address a minority?
Is that reasonable?
But pondering the rationale that is sometimes used.
Most of the littering I see is by white middle class British people. That is true of my experience. Should I use that observation whenever a topic about middle class white people come up, and characterise white middle class British people as a dirty littering populace, apart from a couple of good ones, that also don’t like littering,….but hardly any of them go and pick up litter.
Also, I think citing the rationale, oh sometimes people in that group don’t mind, is also very suspect.
I used to laugh a Irish jokes, sort of had too, don’t really hear that many anymore. |
I dont say the majority necessarily decides either.
Logic, reason and measured argument shoudl decide, and you should not be precluded from using those tools by not being hte offended party. nor should you be able to impose on others, by claiming offense over things which are really not, objectively, unreasonable.
It requires conversation and reason. Any side trying to silence the other by saying (for instance) I am the offended party, and I get to decide, is a problem and throws reason out of the equation. | | | |
| Thread removed? on 12:24 - Feb 6 with 1493 views | solomon |
| Thread removed? on 11:07 - Feb 6 by MattinLondon |
But what if some members of that community didn’t find that comment offensive? Does all of a sudden that vindicates that post?
Raises an interesting post of who judges whether or not a comment is actually offensive. |
To be fair common sense and a basic level of moral fibre should be enough. |  | | |
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