| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) 20:29 - Oct 15 with 2767 views | Keno |
[Post edited 15 Oct 2023 20:30]
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 20:33 - Oct 15 with 2734 views | quirkie |
Absolute stupendous stuff, never seen anything like it before. |  |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 20:35 - Oct 15 with 2714 views | MK1 |
Proper game. Could go either way. best game of the tournament so far. (that I have seen) |  |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 20:38 - Oct 15 with 2685 views | Keno |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 20:33 - Oct 15 by quirkie |
Absolute stupendous stuff, never seen anything like it before. |
It’s Rugby quirkie but not as we know it | |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 20:44 - Oct 15 with 2646 views | jontysnut |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 20:38 - Oct 15 by Keno |
It’s Rugby quirkie but not as we know it |
I think a Fiji v Romania game once ended 0-0 |  | | |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 05:40 - Oct 16 with 2448 views | MK1 |
That will be the game people remember most from the World Cup. Fantastic effort from both sides. England have a chance, but they will really need to improve to beat that SA side. | |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 06:27 - Oct 16 with 2427 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
I couldn't help feeling that when you see sport like that played with such passion and intensity is so totally uplifting - it just epitomises the human spirit and why it is so great to be a human being. With what is going on in other countries at the moment, it made me sad to think how there are some countries and cultures that seem hell bent on war and misery, whilst other countries choose to express themselves on a sports field and after giving every ounce of effort and commitment, will hug and shake hands at the end. |  |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 09:55 - Oct 16 with 2262 views | Wickets |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 05:40 - Oct 16 by MK1 |
That will be the game people remember most from the World Cup. Fantastic effort from both sides. England have a chance, but they will really need to improve to beat that SA side. |
Fingers crossed that SA have taken a bit out of themselves but I doubt it somehow. I thought they were awesome. |  | | |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 11:14 - Oct 16 with 2222 views | N2_Blue |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 05:40 - Oct 16 by MK1 |
That will be the game people remember most from the World Cup. Fantastic effort from both sides. England have a chance, but they will really need to improve to beat that SA side. |
England have a chance??? They really don't.
Fair play to England for actually finally making some progress after a horrendous world cup warm up but they are miles behind the big 4 (SA, NZ, IRL, FRA). Everyone is to be honest, the guld is huge.
I can't see England being even within 25 points of SA.
Unfortunately the two SFs are going to be rather one-sided let downs compared to the QFs but a NZ v SA final could be epic. |  |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 11:23 - Oct 16 with 2206 views | BigCommon |
A truly epic match.... Thought all of the QF's have been a worthy watch, with FR v SA the stand out..
I have no idea how these guys recover in time for the next game.. Absolute warriors, all of them.
Didn't expect England to be the last northern hemisphere team left in the tournament by the SF stage. .It will take something momentous to reach the final. But who knows. Its times like this, that men become sporting heroes. |  | | |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 11:23 - Oct 16 with 2204 views | _clive_baker_ |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 11:14 - Oct 16 by N2_Blue |
England have a chance??? They really don't.
Fair play to England for actually finally making some progress after a horrendous world cup warm up but they are miles behind the big 4 (SA, NZ, IRL, FRA). Everyone is to be honest, the guld is huge.
I can't see England being even within 25 points of SA.
Unfortunately the two SFs are going to be rather one-sided let downs compared to the QFs but a NZ v SA final could be epic. |
I wouldn't say they're the 'big 4', they're just the top 4 at this moment. You don't need to go too far back to a time when England were spoken about in the same breath.
England will certainly be 2nd favourites against SA, it's a rerun of the final from 4 years ago and that perhaps might give England that added little motivation. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England beat them, but I don't give us much hope and don't think we're at a point where we'll have quite enough this time around. The negativity surrounding England is so OTT, we've still got a lot of quality and a lot of experienced big game players, we're in a period of transition under Borthwick and that's bound to take time. It won't be a cake walk for SA though, if I had to bet I would say they'll will win by 10-15 points. [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 11:24]
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 11:40 - Oct 16 with 2169 views | Chrisd |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 11:14 - Oct 16 by N2_Blue |
England have a chance??? They really don't.
Fair play to England for actually finally making some progress after a horrendous world cup warm up but they are miles behind the big 4 (SA, NZ, IRL, FRA). Everyone is to be honest, the guld is huge.
I can't see England being even within 25 points of SA.
Unfortunately the two SFs are going to be rather one-sided let downs compared to the QFs but a NZ v SA final could be epic. |
I think exactly the same as you N2 Blue. Those 4 sides are way and above everyone else. Lets look at it logically, we struggled to overcome a decent Fiji team, would SA or NZ have the same issues? Not a chance, they'd blow them away. The standard of rugby we are playing currently we are lightyears behind what we saw last night with France and SA. Only the really optimistic England fan will give us a fighting chance next Saturday. Like you mentioned, I think both SFs will be one sided affairs, but the final will be a monumental match between two of the games' heavyweights. |  |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 11:56 - Oct 16 with 2152 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 11:23 - Oct 16 by _clive_baker_ |
I wouldn't say they're the 'big 4', they're just the top 4 at this moment. You don't need to go too far back to a time when England were spoken about in the same breath.
England will certainly be 2nd favourites against SA, it's a rerun of the final from 4 years ago and that perhaps might give England that added little motivation. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England beat them, but I don't give us much hope and don't think we're at a point where we'll have quite enough this time around. The negativity surrounding England is so OTT, we've still got a lot of quality and a lot of experienced big game players, we're in a period of transition under Borthwick and that's bound to take time. It won't be a cake walk for SA though, if I had to bet I would say they'll will win by 10-15 points. [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 11:24]
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Quite, FRA & IRL world cup record isn't a patch on England. Their record against southern hemisphere sides isn't either.
Think England has reached as far as would have genuinely been hoped at this stage of their progression under a new coach, they have been workmanlike rather than great. | | | |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 12:15 - Oct 16 with 2137 views | N2_Blue |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 11:23 - Oct 16 by _clive_baker_ |
I wouldn't say they're the 'big 4', they're just the top 4 at this moment. You don't need to go too far back to a time when England were spoken about in the same breath.
England will certainly be 2nd favourites against SA, it's a rerun of the final from 4 years ago and that perhaps might give England that added little motivation. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that England beat them, but I don't give us much hope and don't think we're at a point where we'll have quite enough this time around. The negativity surrounding England is so OTT, we've still got a lot of quality and a lot of experienced big game players, we're in a period of transition under Borthwick and that's bound to take time. It won't be a cake walk for SA though, if I had to bet I would say they'll will win by 10-15 points. [Post edited 16 Oct 2023 11:24]
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I meant big four in terms of current standards. Of course England and Australia have both sat at the top of the rugby tree at certain periods.
But I don’t think there has ever been such a gulf between the best 4 sides in the world and the rest as there is now.
The rest including England are light years behind at the moment. The speed and intensity is just something England can’t match up to. I don’t even know why as surely the talent pool is there.
You have to be quick at the breakdown, something all the top sides are. England never are quick enough and often turnover the ball and from an attacking perspective just don’t have the incisiveness that the top teams possess.
Add SA’s power to all of that and England could get blown away. I think it’s going to be a pretty chastening experience for them Saturday. | |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 12:46 - Oct 16 with 2107 views | Exiled2Surrey |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 12:15 - Oct 16 by N2_Blue |
I meant big four in terms of current standards. Of course England and Australia have both sat at the top of the rugby tree at certain periods.
But I don’t think there has ever been such a gulf between the best 4 sides in the world and the rest as there is now.
The rest including England are light years behind at the moment. The speed and intensity is just something England can’t match up to. I don’t even know why as surely the talent pool is there.
You have to be quick at the breakdown, something all the top sides are. England never are quick enough and often turnover the ball and from an attacking perspective just don’t have the incisiveness that the top teams possess.
Add SA’s power to all of that and England could get blown away. I think it’s going to be a pretty chastening experience for them Saturday. |
I don't think SA were given too much of a chance in the final against England in the last WC so who knows what might happen this time round - you never know when the tables are reversed in a one off game.
England do have strengths - I think it is too easy to say that SA are just too strong. The SA scrum is ridiculous, but is their line-out so good? We ought to be more than a match kicking the ball and Steward is so good in the air (if they pick him, and I would assume that they will)
England have also got better at game management and playing what is in front of them. During the progression through the tournament, where I thought we might really fall down is in the ability to play the ref and work out how not to give away tonnes of penalties. I don't have data to back this up, but I would guess that in recent years England have had to play the majority of the game with fewer players than the opposition (Farrell, Curry, Itoje are always so close to being binned) but we even seem to have got better at that aspect of things.
We will not be favourites and that is appropriate - but I don't think it will be a walkover by any means. | | | |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 12:58 - Oct 16 with 2087 views | _clive_baker_ |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 12:15 - Oct 16 by N2_Blue |
I meant big four in terms of current standards. Of course England and Australia have both sat at the top of the rugby tree at certain periods.
But I don’t think there has ever been such a gulf between the best 4 sides in the world and the rest as there is now.
The rest including England are light years behind at the moment. The speed and intensity is just something England can’t match up to. I don’t even know why as surely the talent pool is there.
You have to be quick at the breakdown, something all the top sides are. England never are quick enough and often turnover the ball and from an attacking perspective just don’t have the incisiveness that the top teams possess.
Add SA’s power to all of that and England could get blown away. I think it’s going to be a pretty chastening experience for them Saturday. |
Biggest frustration for me watching England over the past couple of years has been the line speed, an obvious area where we're so far behind the top 4. The likes of Ireland and France move the ball with frightening pace compared to us. England are still alright if not exceptional, the forwards don't really concern me, but definitely a few question marks in the backs.
I don't think we have a world class scrum half which is a big part of the problem. I'm not really sold on Mitchell, I can't stand Ben Youngs whose days are thankfully numbered and personally I think Care is as good as anyone we have despite him pushing 40. That's a concern. Beyond that and in time Smith will presumably take over from Farrell, with Steward at full back which could be interesting longer term, then we need a refresh on the wings.
Daly and Malins are alright but not top top class, we miss Watson on the wing with his genuine pace. After the world cup we need to look forward and get Arundell, Cokanasiga, Hassell-Collins, Cadan Murley etc more involved and see if 1 or 2 of them can stake a claim. They've certainly got some pace among them. | | | |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 13:06 - Oct 16 with 2068 views | Darth_Koont |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 12:58 - Oct 16 by _clive_baker_ |
Biggest frustration for me watching England over the past couple of years has been the line speed, an obvious area where we're so far behind the top 4. The likes of Ireland and France move the ball with frightening pace compared to us. England are still alright if not exceptional, the forwards don't really concern me, but definitely a few question marks in the backs.
I don't think we have a world class scrum half which is a big part of the problem. I'm not really sold on Mitchell, I can't stand Ben Youngs whose days are thankfully numbered and personally I think Care is as good as anyone we have despite him pushing 40. That's a concern. Beyond that and in time Smith will presumably take over from Farrell, with Steward at full back which could be interesting longer term, then we need a refresh on the wings.
Daly and Malins are alright but not top top class, we miss Watson on the wing with his genuine pace. After the world cup we need to look forward and get Arundell, Cokanasiga, Hassell-Collins, Cadan Murley etc more involved and see if 1 or 2 of them can stake a claim. They've certainly got some pace among them. |
Think that England’s backs have been built around Farrell and Tuilangi for so long and there hasn’t been enough focus on the wider needs of a backline. Literally and figuratively.
But that’s due in part to others not really challenging enough too. So it’s a bit chicken and egg. |  |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 13:12 - Oct 16 with 2051 views | hype313 |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 12:58 - Oct 16 by _clive_baker_ |
Biggest frustration for me watching England over the past couple of years has been the line speed, an obvious area where we're so far behind the top 4. The likes of Ireland and France move the ball with frightening pace compared to us. England are still alright if not exceptional, the forwards don't really concern me, but definitely a few question marks in the backs.
I don't think we have a world class scrum half which is a big part of the problem. I'm not really sold on Mitchell, I can't stand Ben Youngs whose days are thankfully numbered and personally I think Care is as good as anyone we have despite him pushing 40. That's a concern. Beyond that and in time Smith will presumably take over from Farrell, with Steward at full back which could be interesting longer term, then we need a refresh on the wings.
Daly and Malins are alright but not top top class, we miss Watson on the wing with his genuine pace. After the world cup we need to look forward and get Arundell, Cokanasiga, Hassell-Collins, Cadan Murley etc more involved and see if 1 or 2 of them can stake a claim. They've certainly got some pace among them. |
Totally agree with everything on that.
Our biggest issue over the past few years has been the lack of quick ball, watching NZ, Ireland especially France and SA you notice how much quicker they are to getting their playmakers involved, if Chelsin Kolbe was playing for us he just wouldn't get a look of the ball.
I really fear for us on Saturday, it could be a cricket score, they pretty much nullified the French scrum, which has been superior to ours over the past few years and their physicality will just overwhelm us.
If we're honest , this England team is very lucky to be where they are given the group and QF route, any other year and we would be out at the group stage or at the very best make a QF.
SA v NZ final with SA winning it unfortunately, as I've never met a nice South African... |  |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 13:33 - Oct 16 with 2026 views | _clive_baker_ |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 13:12 - Oct 16 by hype313 |
Totally agree with everything on that.
Our biggest issue over the past few years has been the lack of quick ball, watching NZ, Ireland especially France and SA you notice how much quicker they are to getting their playmakers involved, if Chelsin Kolbe was playing for us he just wouldn't get a look of the ball.
I really fear for us on Saturday, it could be a cricket score, they pretty much nullified the French scrum, which has been superior to ours over the past few years and their physicality will just overwhelm us.
If we're honest , this England team is very lucky to be where they are given the group and QF route, any other year and we would be out at the group stage or at the very best make a QF.
SA v NZ final with SA winning it unfortunately, as I've never met a nice South African... |
Certainly very lucky with the route to the semi, it's hard to make an argument that we're good enough to beat a top side when you look at the most recent 6 nations performances and results and the form coming in to the world cup.
Losing on Saturday to SA would be a par performance for this England I would say. Beating Argentina, Japan and Fiji, who we probabaly should beat, but are still tricky opponents. Knowing you should and actually doing it are 2 entirely different things which shouldn't be underestimated to be fair to England. Then losing to SA who should beat us. The outcome of semis would flatter us somewhat given the draw, arguably its more like a 5th / 6th place close to 'best of the rest' finish given the results if that happens. A win on Saturday and it's a way better than par result, regardless of the final. That would be a justified run to the final with 6 wins from 6 and having beaten SA. Would be great if we can do it, regardless of what happened thereafter. 4 finals in the last 6 would be a strong achievement for England rugby. Can't see it happening mind. | | | |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 14:16 - Oct 16 with 1972 views | hype313 |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 13:33 - Oct 16 by _clive_baker_ |
Certainly very lucky with the route to the semi, it's hard to make an argument that we're good enough to beat a top side when you look at the most recent 6 nations performances and results and the form coming in to the world cup.
Losing on Saturday to SA would be a par performance for this England I would say. Beating Argentina, Japan and Fiji, who we probabaly should beat, but are still tricky opponents. Knowing you should and actually doing it are 2 entirely different things which shouldn't be underestimated to be fair to England. Then losing to SA who should beat us. The outcome of semis would flatter us somewhat given the draw, arguably its more like a 5th / 6th place close to 'best of the rest' finish given the results if that happens. A win on Saturday and it's a way better than par result, regardless of the final. That would be a justified run to the final with 6 wins from 6 and having beaten SA. Would be great if we can do it, regardless of what happened thereafter. 4 finals in the last 6 would be a strong achievement for England rugby. Can't see it happening mind. |
Yep, indeed.
I was of the mindset that our only real chance was the fact that SA v France would take so much out of both teams they might be struggling, but SA have so much firepower on the pitch and on the bench and their powers of recovery are remarkable.
Add in that that win against Fiji was hardly a stroll in the park, how much did that take out of us.
The only thing we can do is bring Ford in and just try and keep the scoreboard ticking over, almost do a Jannie De Beer on them. | |
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| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 14:27 - Oct 16 with 1957 views | _clive_baker_ |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 14:16 - Oct 16 by hype313 |
Yep, indeed.
I was of the mindset that our only real chance was the fact that SA v France would take so much out of both teams they might be struggling, but SA have so much firepower on the pitch and on the bench and their powers of recovery are remarkable.
Add in that that win against Fiji was hardly a stroll in the park, how much did that take out of us.
The only thing we can do is bring Ford in and just try and keep the scoreboard ticking over, almost do a Jannie De Beer on them. |
Yeah that's about the only hope. SA have had some brutal games against Ireland and France, and to a lesser extent Scotland which was probably a bit more bruising than the scoreline suggests. Might be an element of fatigue, but of course they benefit from being able to replace their whole forward line with a new bomb squad.
England need to make sure we keep the score board ticking when we enter their 22, whether it be penalties or drop goals, but making the most of those opportunities. If we can have 10-15 points on the board by half time we're probably in a game. Hopefully they get a dodgy early red or something. | | | |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 14:29 - Oct 16 with 1953 views | hype313 |
| France v Saffers is a bit ofa dull game isn’t it (n/t) on 14:27 - Oct 16 by _clive_baker_ |
Yeah that's about the only hope. SA have had some brutal games against Ireland and France, and to a lesser extent Scotland which was probably a bit more bruising than the scoreline suggests. Might be an element of fatigue, but of course they benefit from being able to replace their whole forward line with a new bomb squad.
England need to make sure we keep the score board ticking when we enter their 22, whether it be penalties or drop goals, but making the most of those opportunities. If we can have 10-15 points on the board by half time we're probably in a game. Hopefully they get a dodgy early red or something. |
Kolbe and Ezebeth sent off after 5 might gives us a 40% chance. | |
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