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I can’t help but feel that the rail strikes harp back to the days of Scargil where a militant leader of a key sector wants to grab as much as possible for his workers at an unacceptable cost for society (and other workers) as a whole.
I have limited sympathy for railway workers being a special case if they are on a reported average of £45k p.a. On the other hand I am sympathetic to nurses or teachers on £30k or £35k average, or indeed others on less than this. Given that resources are finite and that an element of current inflation is the one off energy impact why not award the public sector workers an increase calculated as the greater of £1,350 p.a. or 3%. This would be 4.5% or more for many teachers or health workers and for low paid rail support staff but be just 3% for the higher paid (45k+).
In addition to the above there is of course the one off energy support payments being made so that should be recognised on top of the £1,350.
A general strike in support of this sort of proposal I would support. I could not support a rail strike that would see already well paid union members benefit disproportionately to other less well off workers.
[Post edited 22 Jun 2022 8:27]
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Public sector strikes on 08:25 - Jun 22 with 1872 views
A lot of it comes down to cohesiveness and strength of position.
The rail industry is still heavily unionised, so they can mobilise and have some protection in striking by law. Plus they can cause a great deal of disruption without putting at risk lives (nurses) or children's education (teachers).
If the rail workers are successful, that then provides leverage for others to push their claims.
Resources are not finite in the sense of this being public money as during the British Rail era. These are commercial rail operators paying high salaries to senior management and seeking to make a profit. On top of that, when one looks at government wastefulness (e.g. the contracts for PPE which turned out not to be fit for purpose), the excuses for cutting subsidies seem feeble.
On another point, average salaries can be very misleading, especially when there is a layer of highly-paid staff (e.g. train drivers) which can mask a large number of low-paid workers (e.g. cleaners).
I have limited sympathy for some railway workers. Drivers are pretty well paid.
But the stats are twisted to fit the narrative.
Many workers, and especially public sector ones, have had numerous pay freezes, earn modest sums and are now faced with being 10% worse off in real terms, and being offered derisory increases of 2% whilst being told they must accept reforms which make their lives harder whilst allowing jobs to be cut.
Enough is enough.
6
Public sector strikes on 08:39 - Jun 22 with 1798 views
If true, the only reason railworkers are on better money than nurses and teachers is that their union is more proactive and demands their members salary is maintained. I’m sure the government would love all unions to be abolished so that public sector workers will work for peanuts.
2
Public sector strikes on 08:43 - Jun 22 with 1764 views
It doesn’t matter how well or not railway workers are paid relative to other sectors. They should not have to accept falling wages when commercial profits are being made and dividends are being paid.
Public sector strikes on 08:45 - Jun 22 by Strimmer
It doesn’t matter how well or not railway workers are paid relative to other sectors. They should not have to accept falling wages when commercial profits are being made and dividends are being paid.
[Post edited 22 Jun 2022 8:46]
I have not got the profit information. With covid I suspect the railways have been losing.
But in principle its hard to disagree with the idea that profits should reduce before any real terms pay cuts are suffered. Especially when fares have above inflation rises every year.
I have limited sympathy for some railway workers. Drivers are pretty well paid.
But the stats are twisted to fit the narrative.
Many workers, and especially public sector ones, have had numerous pay freezes, earn modest sums and are now faced with being 10% worse off in real terms, and being offered derisory increases of 2% whilst being told they must accept reforms which make their lives harder whilst allowing jobs to be cut.
Enough is enough.
Train drivers are members of ASLEF, not the RMT.
A large number of RMT members (about 10000 people) are low paid cleaners whose wages aren’t included in the governments average calculation.
Surprisingly the governments figures aren’t true.
The average wage for an RMT member is circa £33k, not £45k
Tory culture wars again.
Inflation is 9%, the union wants 7% & the offer is 3%.
4
Public sector strikes on 08:50 - Jun 22 with 1723 views
Public sector strikes on 08:48 - Jun 22 by BLUEGOLD
Train drivers are members of ASLEF, not the RMT.
A large number of RMT members (about 10000 people) are low paid cleaners whose wages aren’t included in the governments average calculation.
Surprisingly the governments figures aren’t true.
The average wage for an RMT member is circa £33k, not £45k
Tory culture wars again.
Inflation is 9%, the union wants 7% & the offer is 3%.
They are telling similar lies about criminal barristers this morning too. Claiming that there is a lower than 50% mandate for the action they are taking and that they have been offered a significant increase already. Both untrue.
2
Public sector strikes on 08:54 - Jun 22 with 1707 views
They are telling similar lies about criminal barristers this morning too. Claiming that there is a lower than 50% mandate for the action they are taking and that they have been offered a significant increase already. Both untrue.
Shame on anyone who votes for this version of the Tories.
6
Public sector strikes on 09:07 - Jun 22 with 1676 views
On the whole I agree with lots of that, but late last night I read about how the govt is going to reinstate the pensions triple lock. That will mean (for those who like myself, aren't up on these things) that pensions will be set by the inflation figure for September. That's likely to be c. 10%.
People on universal credit will also get that increase. This is obviously great news for pensioners and people on UC and must come as a huge relief. But it's going to cost £20b, so begs the question, why fight with working people over much smaller increases to their wages?
Obviously pensioners tend to vote Tory and this will help. Election round the corner maybe? And meanwhile, my own personal convictions on limited resources and fairness blown out of the water.
Then there's inflation. Why is a 7% pay rise inflationary for a train worker, but a 10% rise for a pensioners not?
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Public sector strikes on 09:07 - Jun 22 by giant_stow
On the whole I agree with lots of that, but late last night I read about how the govt is going to reinstate the pensions triple lock. That will mean (for those who like myself, aren't up on these things) that pensions will be set by the inflation figure for September. That's likely to be c. 10%.
People on universal credit will also get that increase. This is obviously great news for pensioners and people on UC and must come as a huge relief. But it's going to cost £20b, so begs the question, why fight with working people over much smaller increases to their wages?
Obviously pensioners tend to vote Tory and this will help. Election round the corner maybe? And meanwhile, my own personal convictions on limited resources and fairness blown out of the water.
Then there's inflation. Why is a 7% pay rise inflationary for a train worker, but a 10% rise for a pensioners not?
Pensioners is where a lot of tory support lies.
3
Public sector strikes on 09:11 - Jun 22 with 1653 views
The Government are selecting statistics that serve their purpose, nurses earn £90,537 PA, well above a train driver. What is an average nurse? The salary quoted is a band 9 nurse on full increments. So it is unfair to single out train drivers pay as if all railway workers are earning that amount just as it is unfair to quote a band 9 nurse salary when the vast majority are earning far less. I would also add that as an ex BT telephone engineer (left nearly 30 years ago) the standard or workmanship by many Openreach engineers is appalling, they would have been disciplined for the shoddy workmanship I see these days. When I am on a train heading up the west coast main line at 130MPH I would like experienced track maintainers to be keeping the train safe not cheap shoddy agency staff with minimal training.
2
Public sector strikes on 09:18 - Jun 22 with 1626 views
Public sector strikes on 08:36 - Jun 22 by Guthrum
A lot of it comes down to cohesiveness and strength of position.
The rail industry is still heavily unionised, so they can mobilise and have some protection in striking by law. Plus they can cause a great deal of disruption without putting at risk lives (nurses) or children's education (teachers).
If the rail workers are successful, that then provides leverage for others to push their claims.
Resources are not finite in the sense of this being public money as during the British Rail era. These are commercial rail operators paying high salaries to senior management and seeking to make a profit. On top of that, when one looks at government wastefulness (e.g. the contracts for PPE which turned out not to be fit for purpose), the excuses for cutting subsidies seem feeble.
On another point, average salaries can be very misleading, especially when there is a layer of highly-paid staff (e.g. train drivers) which can mask a large number of low-paid workers (e.g. cleaners).
It is time for strike action by public sector workers to be made illegal. As things are at present workers and companies are being made to suffer losses by the few. The leaders of the most militant unions are amongst the most highly paid, most being paid more than ministers in the government. It is surely time that the striking unions are going to be sued for damages in the private sector. The most obvious solution to this situation is for strikes by public sector unions to be made illegal. The railways should be making greater strides in technology ( which already exists) changes towards running driverless trains.
Public sector strikes on 09:07 - Jun 22 by giant_stow
On the whole I agree with lots of that, but late last night I read about how the govt is going to reinstate the pensions triple lock. That will mean (for those who like myself, aren't up on these things) that pensions will be set by the inflation figure for September. That's likely to be c. 10%.
People on universal credit will also get that increase. This is obviously great news for pensioners and people on UC and must come as a huge relief. But it's going to cost £20b, so begs the question, why fight with working people over much smaller increases to their wages?
Obviously pensioners tend to vote Tory and this will help. Election round the corner maybe? And meanwhile, my own personal convictions on limited resources and fairness blown out of the water.
Then there's inflation. Why is a 7% pay rise inflationary for a train worker, but a 10% rise for a pensioners not?
They've promised that triple lock before and reneged.
Public sector strikes on 09:18 - Jun 22 by meekreech
It is time for strike action by public sector workers to be made illegal. As things are at present workers and companies are being made to suffer losses by the few. The leaders of the most militant unions are amongst the most highly paid, most being paid more than ministers in the government. It is surely time that the striking unions are going to be sued for damages in the private sector. The most obvious solution to this situation is for strikes by public sector unions to be made illegal. The railways should be making greater strides in technology ( which already exists) changes towards running driverless trains.
One of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read on here.
There are hypocritical unionists and leaders.
But to take away the one way that workers can actually stand up to the sort of abuse being foisted on them by the government, would be utterly disgusting.
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Public sector strikes on 09:27 - Jun 22 with 1591 views
I have limited sympathy for some railway workers. Drivers are pretty well paid.
But the stats are twisted to fit the narrative.
Many workers, and especially public sector ones, have had numerous pay freezes, earn modest sums and are now faced with being 10% worse off in real terms, and being offered derisory increases of 2% whilst being told they must accept reforms which make their lives harder whilst allowing jobs to be cut.
Enough is enough.
You do realise most train drivers are in ASLEF not the RMT?
You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
Public sector strikes on 08:45 - Jun 22 by Strimmer
It doesn’t matter how well or not railway workers are paid relative to other sectors. They should not have to accept falling wages when commercial profits are being made and dividends are being paid.
[Post edited 22 Jun 2022 8:46]
As an example, postal workers have been offered 2% pay rise after reporting a £900 million annual profit and paying £600 million in dividends to share holders. I would guess the rail companies would be very similar.
0
Public sector strikes on 09:29 - Jun 22 with 1582 views
Public sector strikes on 08:37 - Jun 22 by unbelievablue
The average pay thing is extremely misleading.
I agree that the average pay can be misleading but the principle of offering a guaranteed minimum rise to all lower paid workers (including rail workers) addresses that point. £1,350 represents 6% to someone on £22,500 and would be a meaningful increase. On the other hand it would represent 3% to someone on £45k.
Awarding everyone the same fixed percentage simply pushed the better paid even further ahead of the poorly paid.
I have used the figures by way of example. I could equally well have used £1,800 and 3%. This would help close the gap even quicker over a few years.
I adopted this approach in a business I ran where I wanted to address the fact that the gap between modestly paid support staff and better paid professional staff had grown over the years. It was well received by the lower paid staff and accepted by the professional staff as being a fair approach.
1
Public sector strikes on 09:29 - Jun 22 with 1582 views
Listening to pretty much anything Mick Lynch says makes me realise how disillusioned and angry I am at the state of politics in this country. To me he speaks complete sense, he speaks what me and, I’m hoping, a huge amount of others feel. The rail industry made £500million profit in a year where rail travel struggled due to covid, why? Where does this money go? Why can at least a decent chunk of that money not be used to pay their workers a decent wage? Why would anyone be against that? Same with utility companies, banks, construction companies, so so many industries where millions if not billions of pounds of profit are made to be shared out amongst the few who sit at the top of the pile and their government friends rather than being used to adequately, or even more than adequately, pay the people who are out there working to create this profit.
The system is f****d for want of a better word and so all power to the people who won’t stand for it anymore.
The strikes are going to massively disrupt me this Saturday and have made my journeys a lot more difficult but honestly, if that’s what it takes then so be it.
1
Public sector strikes on 09:30 - Jun 22 with 1568 views
Public sector strikes on 09:18 - Jun 22 by meekreech
It is time for strike action by public sector workers to be made illegal. As things are at present workers and companies are being made to suffer losses by the few. The leaders of the most militant unions are amongst the most highly paid, most being paid more than ministers in the government. It is surely time that the striking unions are going to be sued for damages in the private sector. The most obvious solution to this situation is for strikes by public sector unions to be made illegal. The railways should be making greater strides in technology ( which already exists) changes towards running driverless trains.
Public sector strikes on 09:29 - Jun 22 by Crawfordsboot
I agree that the average pay can be misleading but the principle of offering a guaranteed minimum rise to all lower paid workers (including rail workers) addresses that point. £1,350 represents 6% to someone on £22,500 and would be a meaningful increase. On the other hand it would represent 3% to someone on £45k.
Awarding everyone the same fixed percentage simply pushed the better paid even further ahead of the poorly paid.
I have used the figures by way of example. I could equally well have used £1,800 and 3%. This would help close the gap even quicker over a few years.
I adopted this approach in a business I ran where I wanted to address the fact that the gap between modestly paid support staff and better paid professional staff had grown over the years. It was well received by the lower paid staff and accepted by the professional staff as being a fair approach.
Sounds a good idead, but that's very easy to do that with a company of say, 200 people, not so easy with tens of millions...
You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
Not sure that has anything to do with anything I said?
This thread is about about the RMT strike, not ASLEF who represent train drivers. But train driver salaries are only used so it brings up the average pay of railway workers. Which is what you said.
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