| Flu and Covid jabs 09:35 - Aug 8 with 7446 views | DJR |
The Telegraph is reporting there won't be Covid jabs or free flu jabs in the autumn for those aged 50-64. Seems a retrograde step for someone like me (going on 64), and makes me think it is being done for cost-saving reasons, although it may well add to winter pressures, and so be a very false economy both in public health terms and additional costs to the NHS further down the line.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/07/flu-jabs-covid-boosters-scrapped-und [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 9:35]
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 09:41 - Aug 8 with 4184 views | GavTWTD |
I've been offered a flu jab (51) weeks ago. I didn't think much of it at the time but I'll jump on it now. |  |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 09:49 - Aug 8 with 4136 views | Churchman |
It is a stupid false economy that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny at any level - just like most other things these leeches do. Immoral and idiotic.
Well, at least they can’t claim to be interested in public health and the well-being of the people at the next election, not that I ever thought this scum were.
Being in the same age bracket as you, I guess I’ll have to pay. What about those who can’t afford it? Oh I forgot, they should work harder, get on their bikes etc or die to decrease the surplus population. A cheap nod to Scrooge and A Christmas Carol but maybe the tories should read it, if they know how to, and learn something.
Rant over. |  | | |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:02 - Aug 8 with 4072 views | Ryorry |
Can’t read article (paywall) but suggest checking, I wouldn’t believe anything in the Torygraph bum wipe.
In every other respect I agree with Churchman. |  |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:17 - Aug 8 with 4012 views | DJR |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:02 - Aug 8 by Ryorry |
Can’t read article (paywall) but suggest checking, I wouldn’t believe anything in the Torygraph bum wipe.
In every other respect I agree with Churchman. |
That's very true. But here's what the article says.
NHS flu jabs and Covid boosters will be axed for adults under 65 this winter as the health
service attempts to “go back to normal”, The Telegraph can reveal.
The Government’s Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation is expected to set out plans on Tuesday which will mean 12 million people aged 50 to 64 are no longer eligible for free vaccines.
The rollout is also expected to start later than normal for those who are given jabs, with the drive not set to begin until October.
The vaccination drive usually starts in early September in an attempt to ensure sufficient
protection against an early flu season.
Health officials said the later start would ensure that the vulnerable are protected in the
depths of winter when viruses are most likely to spread.
The UK recommendations come despite fears of senior medics that this winter could be even worse than last year, when flu admissions were the highest for a decade.
Before the pandemic flu jabs were offered to healthy adults over the age of 65, as well as to children and younger adults with health conditions.
During the pandemic the rollout of flu jabs was extended to cover those aged 50 to 64 in line with those eligible for Covid boosters.
One source close to the rollout said the scaling back of the flu programme was an attempt to“go back to normal” after the pandemic.
Uptake of both flu and Covid jabs among those aged between 50 and 64 fell sharply last
winter.
Just 40.6 per cent of those aged between 50 and 65 in England came forward for a flu
vaccination in 2022-23, down from 45.7 per cent the year before.
Meanwhile, six million people, or 51.7 per cent, from the same age range came forward for aCovid booster last winter, down from 77.6 per cent the previous year.
Health officials say the later start in October this year will “maximise protection during the worst months for viruses of December and January”. There will also be 12 million fewer people being offered jabs – almost half of the 26 million previously eligible for Covid jabs – enabling a more swift rollout.
Anyone under 65 in a clinical risk group as well as healthcare workers and carers will still
also be eligible for flu and Covid jabs. Children aged between two and 17 will also be eligible for flu nasal sprays, while some who are clinically at risk will be eligible for Covid jabs.
A senior health source said the decision to limit Covid jabs to the over 65s would put it in line with recommendations on flu, allowing for “easier co-administration of both jabs at the same appointment”.
An NHS spokesman said: “The NHS flu vaccination programme will begin in October based on the latest clinical evidence – it will maximise protection for patients right across the winter months when it is typically colder, and viruses are more likely to spread with people spending more time indoors.
More vaccine sites
“The NHS is working to ensure a growing number of vaccine sites across England offer both flu and Covid-19 vaccines in the same visit, to make it as convenient as possible for people to get life-saving protection from both viruses ahead of winter.”
It comes after NHS England warned at a board meeting last month that Australia, whose flu seasons usually forecast England’s, was experiencing “one of its biggest flu seasons on
record”, with children making up four in five flu-related hospital admissions.
Speaking at the meeting, Dr Vin Diwakar, medical director for transformation, said this
winter would be “a difficult one” as the health service set out its winter plan, which included rolling out respiratory hubs to stop GPs becoming overwhelmed.
Dr Adrian Boyle, the president of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine, last month
raised fears that this winter would see more deaths than last.
The senior medic said NHS plans to head off a winter crisis were inadequate as he accused the Government of “blithely sailing towards an iceberg”.
EDIT: I wish to clarify that I don't fund the Telegraph, but have a free subscription which a friend who is a subscriber gave me. [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 10:20]
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:18 - Aug 8 with 4000 views | DJR |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 09:49 - Aug 8 by Churchman |
It is a stupid false economy that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny at any level - just like most other things these leeches do. Immoral and idiotic.
Well, at least they can’t claim to be interested in public health and the well-being of the people at the next election, not that I ever thought this scum were.
Being in the same age bracket as you, I guess I’ll have to pay. What about those who can’t afford it? Oh I forgot, they should work harder, get on their bikes etc or die to decrease the surplus population. A cheap nod to Scrooge and A Christmas Carol but maybe the tories should read it, if they know how to, and learn something.
Rant over. |
I didn't think you could buy a Covid vaccine. | | | |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:34 - Aug 8 with 3921 views | blueasfook |
I get them (flu jabs) from my employer. They have a doctor come in October usually and we all get jabbed. I also have private health care now. I've pretty much given up with the NHS. Can't even get an appointment to see a GP. |  |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:36 - Aug 8 with 3907 views | DJR |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:17 - Aug 8 by DJR |
That's very true. But here's what the article says.
NHS flu jabs and Covid boosters will be axed for adults under 65 this winter as the health
service attempts to “go back to normal”, The Telegraph can reveal.
The Government’s Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation is expected to set out plans on Tuesday which will mean 12 million people aged 50 to 64 are no longer eligible for free vaccines.
The rollout is also expected to start later than normal for those who are given jabs, with the drive not set to begin until October.
The vaccination drive usually starts in early September in an attempt to ensure sufficient
protection against an early flu season.
Health officials said the later start would ensure that the vulnerable are protected in the
depths of winter when viruses are most likely to spread.
The UK recommendations come despite fears of senior medics that this winter could be even worse than last year, when flu admissions were the highest for a decade.
Before the pandemic flu jabs were offered to healthy adults over the age of 65, as well as to children and younger adults with health conditions.
During the pandemic the rollout of flu jabs was extended to cover those aged 50 to 64 in line with those eligible for Covid boosters.
One source close to the rollout said the scaling back of the flu programme was an attempt to“go back to normal” after the pandemic.
Uptake of both flu and Covid jabs among those aged between 50 and 64 fell sharply last
winter.
Just 40.6 per cent of those aged between 50 and 65 in England came forward for a flu
vaccination in 2022-23, down from 45.7 per cent the year before.
Meanwhile, six million people, or 51.7 per cent, from the same age range came forward for aCovid booster last winter, down from 77.6 per cent the previous year.
Health officials say the later start in October this year will “maximise protection during the worst months for viruses of December and January”. There will also be 12 million fewer people being offered jabs – almost half of the 26 million previously eligible for Covid jabs – enabling a more swift rollout.
Anyone under 65 in a clinical risk group as well as healthcare workers and carers will still
also be eligible for flu and Covid jabs. Children aged between two and 17 will also be eligible for flu nasal sprays, while some who are clinically at risk will be eligible for Covid jabs.
A senior health source said the decision to limit Covid jabs to the over 65s would put it in line with recommendations on flu, allowing for “easier co-administration of both jabs at the same appointment”.
An NHS spokesman said: “The NHS flu vaccination programme will begin in October based on the latest clinical evidence – it will maximise protection for patients right across the winter months when it is typically colder, and viruses are more likely to spread with people spending more time indoors.
More vaccine sites
“The NHS is working to ensure a growing number of vaccine sites across England offer both flu and Covid-19 vaccines in the same visit, to make it as convenient as possible for people to get life-saving protection from both viruses ahead of winter.”
It comes after NHS England warned at a board meeting last month that Australia, whose flu seasons usually forecast England’s, was experiencing “one of its biggest flu seasons on
record”, with children making up four in five flu-related hospital admissions.
Speaking at the meeting, Dr Vin Diwakar, medical director for transformation, said this
winter would be “a difficult one” as the health service set out its winter plan, which included rolling out respiratory hubs to stop GPs becoming overwhelmed.
Dr Adrian Boyle, the president of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine, last month
raised fears that this winter would see more deaths than last.
The senior medic said NHS plans to head off a winter crisis were inadequate as he accused the Government of “blithely sailing towards an iceberg”.
EDIT: I wish to clarify that I don't fund the Telegraph, but have a free subscription which a friend who is a subscriber gave me. [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 10:20]
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Interestingly, the Joint Committee on Vaccinations' advice (updated as recently as January 2023) was that the 2023 Covid vaccination campaign should be targeted at those at higher risk, which it stated included those 50-64.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-programme-for-20
Perhaps they have been nobbled, or their terms of reference now include cost and/or "going back to normal". [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 10:38]
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:42 - Aug 8 with 3867 views | mrshallisfit |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:34 - Aug 8 by blueasfook |
I get them (flu jabs) from my employer. They have a doctor come in October usually and we all get jabbed. I also have private health care now. I've pretty much given up with the NHS. Can't even get an appointment to see a GP. |
And what do you think in general of that as a situation? |  | | |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:47 - Aug 8 with 3843 views | blueasfook |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:42 - Aug 8 by mrshallisfit |
And what do you think in general of that as a situation? |
Well its not great. NHS is overwhelmed, underfunded and understaffed. Luckily I have other options. I genuinely feel sorry for poor people who can't afford private health care. Enjoy waiting 3 years for an operation. | |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:52 - Aug 8 with 3807 views | Churchman |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:18 - Aug 8 by DJR |
I didn't think you could buy a Covid vaccine. |
Thats depressing | | | |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:57 - Aug 8 with 3776 views | ElephantintheRoom |
On thé other hand a flu vaccine is pretty pointless anyway if you’re not in a high risk group and usually utterly pointless anyway as it protects against ‘likely threats’ rather than the one(s) that actually turn up. A lethal new covid strain would probably evade any of the current vaccines too - and latterly it’s not much more than a moderate cold which most 50 to 65 yr olds have probably now lived through without actually knowing they have covid - and makes a vaccine a waste of time and effort.
The NHS has to prioritise treatment now it’s got to pay its staff more without funding | |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:17 - Aug 8 with 3705 views | DJR |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:57 - Aug 8 by ElephantintheRoom |
On thé other hand a flu vaccine is pretty pointless anyway if you’re not in a high risk group and usually utterly pointless anyway as it protects against ‘likely threats’ rather than the one(s) that actually turn up. A lethal new covid strain would probably evade any of the current vaccines too - and latterly it’s not much more than a moderate cold which most 50 to 65 yr olds have probably now lived through without actually knowing they have covid - and makes a vaccine a waste of time and effort.
The NHS has to prioritise treatment now it’s got to pay its staff more without funding |
But, as I mentioned above, the JCVI decided as recently as January that those aged 50-64 were a high risk group.
Of course there is a difference between those aged 50 and those aged 64, but as someone approaching 64, I don't feel much less at risk than a 65 year old who will be entitled to a Covid jab and a free flu jab.
Of course, with flu jabs it's a completely different thing, because there is an option to buy one. I never did in the past, but given they were offered for free these last two years, I will do now.
But presumably the calculation is that if some 50-64s die or get long covid, it's a price worth paying. [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 11:25]
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:19 - Aug 8 with 3694 views | Churchman |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 10:57 - Aug 8 by ElephantintheRoom |
On thé other hand a flu vaccine is pretty pointless anyway if you’re not in a high risk group and usually utterly pointless anyway as it protects against ‘likely threats’ rather than the one(s) that actually turn up. A lethal new covid strain would probably evade any of the current vaccines too - and latterly it’s not much more than a moderate cold which most 50 to 65 yr olds have probably now lived through without actually knowing they have covid - and makes a vaccine a waste of time and effort.
The NHS has to prioritise treatment now it’s got to pay its staff more without funding |
In my ignorance I’ll defer to people that know about these things such as SB. However, I gather flu vaccine covers a range of known viruses out there. Yes, it may not cover all of them but if it reduces the chances of serious flu by 1% I’ll have it. Same with Covid. I caught it this time last year and the worst of it was no energy for a few days and a lot of tiredness. So not too bad. I’ll never know whether the vaccines I’d had mitigated the worst, but I am glad I didn’t have to find out.
I’m a great believer in prevention. It’s better for people and cheaper for the NHS in the long run. I’d do it to the point of compulsory medical say every five years after 55, including bowel screening, blood tests, etc etc.
The NHS is rationing treatment because the government wants to run it down by money and expertise starvation and in turn get rid of the welfare state altogether. They’ve never believed in it and never will. I choose to disagree. | | | |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:38 - Aug 8 with 3587 views | GlasgowBlue |
I turned 60 a couple of weeks ago. Got a text from NHS in the same week scheduling my flu and Covid jags fir mid September. |  |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:40 - Aug 8 with 3578 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:19 - Aug 8 by Churchman |
In my ignorance I’ll defer to people that know about these things such as SB. However, I gather flu vaccine covers a range of known viruses out there. Yes, it may not cover all of them but if it reduces the chances of serious flu by 1% I’ll have it. Same with Covid. I caught it this time last year and the worst of it was no energy for a few days and a lot of tiredness. So not too bad. I’ll never know whether the vaccines I’d had mitigated the worst, but I am glad I didn’t have to find out.
I’m a great believer in prevention. It’s better for people and cheaper for the NHS in the long run. I’d do it to the point of compulsory medical say every five years after 55, including bowel screening, blood tests, etc etc.
The NHS is rationing treatment because the government wants to run it down by money and expertise starvation and in turn get rid of the welfare state altogether. They’ve never believed in it and never will. I choose to disagree. |
Does anyone else find it discouraging that the majority of those aged between 50-64 offered a flu jab for last winter didn’t bother. With GP’s paid for each jab you would expect it to be higher.
I’ll take any jab offered, this year had Flu, Covid & pneumococcal jabs. Also get annual check ups at local surgery, last time they took five phials of blood for various tests then I guess they look after us oldens(76). |  |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:46 - Aug 8 with 3551 views | DJR |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:40 - Aug 8 by Pinewoodblue |
Does anyone else find it discouraging that the majority of those aged between 50-64 offered a flu jab for last winter didn’t bother. With GP’s paid for each jab you would expect it to be higher.
I’ll take any jab offered, this year had Flu, Covid & pneumococcal jabs. Also get annual check ups at local surgery, last time they took five phials of blood for various tests then I guess they look after us oldens(76). |
Yes, very discouraging, but it fits with there being a sizeable portion of the the population who don't really look after their health. | | | |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:48 - Aug 8 with 3530 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:17 - Aug 8 by DJR |
But, as I mentioned above, the JCVI decided as recently as January that those aged 50-64 were a high risk group.
Of course there is a difference between those aged 50 and those aged 64, but as someone approaching 64, I don't feel much less at risk than a 65 year old who will be entitled to a Covid jab and a free flu jab.
Of course, with flu jabs it's a completely different thing, because there is an option to buy one. I never did in the past, but given they were offered for free these last two years, I will do now.
But presumably the calculation is that if some 50-64s die or get long covid, it's a price worth paying. [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 11:25]
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I’m slap bang in the middle of that age group and I do find it funny to be described as being in a high risk group.
I run 30k every week, have excellent health and I’m fitter than most men half my age.
Which leads me off piste slightly, but when my old man was sixty he wouldn’t run 30 feet let alone 30 k and looked to me like an old man. Are we a much fitter and healthier generation? Looking back a generation further and Sid James looked about 70 when he was in his 40’s.
I feel like I could keep going the way I am for at least another then years and I’m sure there are loads of people my age who feel the same. | |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:53 - Aug 8 with 3502 views | DinDjarin |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:46 - Aug 8 by DJR |
Yes, very discouraging, but it fits with there being a sizeable portion of the the population who don't really look after their health. |
I look after my health very well and am in top health across the board at 52 yrs old.
But have never had a flu or covid jab and never will. |  | | |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:54 - Aug 8 with 3496 views | DJR |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:53 - Aug 8 by DinDjarin |
I look after my health very well and am in top health across the board at 52 yrs old.
But have never had a flu or covid jab and never will. |
I have no issue with that at all, but I am not sure it disproves my point. [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 11:55]
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 12:02 - Aug 8 with 3447 views | DJR |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:48 - Aug 8 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m slap bang in the middle of that age group and I do find it funny to be described as being in a high risk group.
I run 30k every week, have excellent health and I’m fitter than most men half my age.
Which leads me off piste slightly, but when my old man was sixty he wouldn’t run 30 feet let alone 30 k and looked to me like an old man. Are we a much fitter and healthier generation? Looking back a generation further and Sid James looked about 70 when he was in his 40’s.
I feel like I could keep going the way I am for at least another then years and I’m sure there are loads of people my age who feel the same. |
There are many like you, but I would argue (and you see it if you go to Portman Road) that there are many more who don't take such a keen interest in their health.
As it is, I am very health conscious, and have been for forty odd years, but I would still prefer the option of both vaccines. [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 12:03]
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 12:04 - Aug 8 with 3435 views | StokieBlue |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:53 - Aug 8 by DinDjarin |
I look after my health very well and am in top health across the board at 52 yrs old.
But have never had a flu or covid jab and never will. |
Covid was killing healthy individuals before the vaccines and the Omicron mutation. Another pandemic virus will likely do the same regardless of your state of health. For instance, Spanish Flu actually killed many healthy people in the 25 to 45 age bracket.
We know you don't like "big pharma" or vaccines but I don't think you should try and imply that being in "good health" is a substitute for vaccination. It's a view that is not supported by the science.
Obviously being in good health in general is a good head start for many not viral conditions such as heart disease etc and it "could" help with viruses but that is totally dependent on the virus itself.
SB [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 12:07]
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 12:35 - Aug 8 with 3333 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 12:04 - Aug 8 by StokieBlue |
Covid was killing healthy individuals before the vaccines and the Omicron mutation. Another pandemic virus will likely do the same regardless of your state of health. For instance, Spanish Flu actually killed many healthy people in the 25 to 45 age bracket.
We know you don't like "big pharma" or vaccines but I don't think you should try and imply that being in "good health" is a substitute for vaccination. It's a view that is not supported by the science.
Obviously being in good health in general is a good head start for many not viral conditions such as heart disease etc and it "could" help with viruses but that is totally dependent on the virus itself.
SB [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 12:07]
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Nit going for a gotcha moment with this post Stokie but a couple of years ago you said that you would continue to wear a face mask in the winter months even though the government were no longer mandating people to do so, because it would reduce the risk of other respiratory illnesses.
Did you do so last winter and are you going to this winter?
It came into my head a few minutes ago as I was clearing out some draws and found a collection of face coverings, including my 1981 pinstripe ITFC mask. | |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 12:40 - Aug 8 with 3292 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 11:17 - Aug 8 by DJR |
But, as I mentioned above, the JCVI decided as recently as January that those aged 50-64 were a high risk group.
Of course there is a difference between those aged 50 and those aged 64, but as someone approaching 64, I don't feel much less at risk than a 65 year old who will be entitled to a Covid jab and a free flu jab.
Of course, with flu jabs it's a completely different thing, because there is an option to buy one. I never did in the past, but given they were offered for free these last two years, I will do now.
But presumably the calculation is that if some 50-64s die or get long covid, it's a price worth paying. [Post edited 8 Aug 2023 11:25]
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I’m not sure that’s true. IF you’re in your age cohort and have nothing wrong with you you are not at risk of very much at all. On the other hand, IF you’re in that age cohort and have diabetes, take a needless statin or have high blood pressure - then you’d qualify for a vaccine as ‘high(er) risk’. It’s largely a scare story that ignores reality and common sense. A bit like GPS are no longer encouraged to routinely give people with a mild viral upper respiratory tract infection an antibiotic. Quite right too - though one in a million might have a need for an antibiotic. | |
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| Flu and Covid jabs on 12:53 - Aug 8 with 3237 views | DJR |
| Flu and Covid jabs on 12:40 - Aug 8 by ElephantintheRoom |
I’m not sure that’s true. IF you’re in your age cohort and have nothing wrong with you you are not at risk of very much at all. On the other hand, IF you’re in that age cohort and have diabetes, take a needless statin or have high blood pressure - then you’d qualify for a vaccine as ‘high(er) risk’. It’s largely a scare story that ignores reality and common sense. A bit like GPS are no longer encouraged to routinely give people with a mild viral upper respiratory tract infection an antibiotic. Quite right too - though one in a million might have a need for an antibiotic. |
My understanding is that vaccines lower the risk of catching the virus, and lessen its symptoms, although these effects are not guaranteed and wear off with time. Approaching the age of 64, I don't think that is a bad thing, however mild or harsh the virus might be for me without a vaccine.
[Post edited 8 Aug 2023 12:58]
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