| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? 15:05 - Dec 17 with 12082 views | bluelagos |
Govt just announced they won't be compensated.
Am split tbh, on the one hand the pension age changes were very much in the public domain, but I guess if those impacted weren't aware (or written to) then can see why they'd be mighty peeved.
Plus I guess any dosh that does go their way is less for public services etc.
Thoughts? |  |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:10 - Dec 17 with 5253 views | Steve_M |
The short answer is that it's emotive special pleading and this is the right decision. Does anyone believe that the pension age should not be the same for men and women?
No doubt the Tory press will be able to find some people worse off about it tomorrow but the Tories only delayed making the same decision to pass it on to Labour. |  |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:12 - Dec 17 with 5237 views | redrickstuhaart |
It was the correction of a discriminatory position and clearly flagged at the time. I understand the frustration, but it will be very rare cases indeed where someone has actually been prejudiced by making decisions on a false premise, rather than simply working a bit longer.
Why should i pay for people with greater life expectancy to retire early? |  | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:15 - Dec 17 with 5215 views | itfcjoe |
It's never going to be reversed now, but was mightily unfair at just how quickly it was changed and should never have been done on the timescales it was.
My Mum is 66 in January and will be entitled to SP but is fortunate that she didn't need the retirement option as the business my Dad had, which she helped run, had done well from when they were 50ish....but from the time I started school until then she had worked nights at Sainsburys and still keeps in contact with a lot of her friends from there. Just in that small cohort of 7 or 8 similarly aged friends there are 2 widows who are having to still work nights at Sainsburys because no pension provision and heavy work is just killing them, plus a couple of others divorced just slogging through other manual jobs until they get to their state pension age.
What's forgotten is a lot of these women wouldn't have been entitled to pensions when they started working, wouldn't have been eligible for jobs even, they were still unable to get mortgages on their own without a male co-signer until the mid 70s.....so they've been denied the ability to have financial autonomy and then stripped of an early state pension.
Ultimately mens and women state pensions needed to be equalised, so this would always happen - but the tapering and cut offs were really unfair |  |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:16 - Dec 17 with 5204 views | itfc_bucks |
I'm not affected by the changes and I knew the age changes were coming up.
I'm also mightily miffed by their groups name - "Women Against State Pension Inequality".
Ladies, the inequality was why the ages were changed!
Cake and eat it. | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:18 - Dec 17 with 5179 views | redrickstuhaart |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:15 - Dec 17 by itfcjoe |
It's never going to be reversed now, but was mightily unfair at just how quickly it was changed and should never have been done on the timescales it was.
My Mum is 66 in January and will be entitled to SP but is fortunate that she didn't need the retirement option as the business my Dad had, which she helped run, had done well from when they were 50ish....but from the time I started school until then she had worked nights at Sainsburys and still keeps in contact with a lot of her friends from there. Just in that small cohort of 7 or 8 similarly aged friends there are 2 widows who are having to still work nights at Sainsburys because no pension provision and heavy work is just killing them, plus a couple of others divorced just slogging through other manual jobs until they get to their state pension age.
What's forgotten is a lot of these women wouldn't have been entitled to pensions when they started working, wouldn't have been eligible for jobs even, they were still unable to get mortgages on their own without a male co-signer until the mid 70s.....so they've been denied the ability to have financial autonomy and then stripped of an early state pension.
Ultimately mens and women state pensions needed to be equalised, so this would always happen - but the tapering and cut offs were really unfair |
What difference would better notice have made? I suggest, none. | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:21 - Dec 17 with 5165 views | bluelagos |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:15 - Dec 17 by itfcjoe |
It's never going to be reversed now, but was mightily unfair at just how quickly it was changed and should never have been done on the timescales it was.
My Mum is 66 in January and will be entitled to SP but is fortunate that she didn't need the retirement option as the business my Dad had, which she helped run, had done well from when they were 50ish....but from the time I started school until then she had worked nights at Sainsburys and still keeps in contact with a lot of her friends from there. Just in that small cohort of 7 or 8 similarly aged friends there are 2 widows who are having to still work nights at Sainsburys because no pension provision and heavy work is just killing them, plus a couple of others divorced just slogging through other manual jobs until they get to their state pension age.
What's forgotten is a lot of these women wouldn't have been entitled to pensions when they started working, wouldn't have been eligible for jobs even, they were still unable to get mortgages on their own without a male co-signer until the mid 70s.....so they've been denied the ability to have financial autonomy and then stripped of an early state pension.
Ultimately mens and women state pensions needed to be equalised, so this would always happen - but the tapering and cut offs were really unfair |
Fair points all.
I was told a while back about women not being able to get a mortgage without a man to cosign until the mid 70s, and thought that had to be a wind up - did some googling and it really was that way for building societies.
Absolutely crazy how recently that was the case. | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:34 - Dec 17 with 5073 views | Pinewoodblue |
Not sure saying we can’t afford it is the best reason to be giving.
Liz Kendall a few years ago proclaimed that she fully supported Waspi in their claim. Presumably she will now announce her resignation. |  |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:35 - Dec 17 with 5054 views | Churchman |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:15 - Dec 17 by itfcjoe |
It's never going to be reversed now, but was mightily unfair at just how quickly it was changed and should never have been done on the timescales it was.
My Mum is 66 in January and will be entitled to SP but is fortunate that she didn't need the retirement option as the business my Dad had, which she helped run, had done well from when they were 50ish....but from the time I started school until then she had worked nights at Sainsburys and still keeps in contact with a lot of her friends from there. Just in that small cohort of 7 or 8 similarly aged friends there are 2 widows who are having to still work nights at Sainsburys because no pension provision and heavy work is just killing them, plus a couple of others divorced just slogging through other manual jobs until they get to their state pension age.
What's forgotten is a lot of these women wouldn't have been entitled to pensions when they started working, wouldn't have been eligible for jobs even, they were still unable to get mortgages on their own without a male co-signer until the mid 70s.....so they've been denied the ability to have financial autonomy and then stripped of an early state pension.
Ultimately mens and women state pensions needed to be equalised, so this would always happen - but the tapering and cut offs were really unfair |
Joe’s post covers it perfectly.
There is no point in independent reviews, Ombudsmen and all that stuff. It’s a total waste of time and money if the recommendations are just going to be laughed at. I get pensioners are not thought to be Labour voters like the others they’re going after (farmers, perceived rich people etc) but consistency should apply. You can put all reviews in the bin box too. They are just a delay and ignore mechanisms.
It’s not the principle of equality. It’s how you implement it. |  | | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:38 - Dec 17 with 5044 views | Basuco |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:21 - Dec 17 by bluelagos |
Fair points all.
I was told a while back about women not being able to get a mortgage without a man to cosign until the mid 70s, and thought that had to be a wind up - did some googling and it really was that way for building societies.
Absolutely crazy how recently that was the case. |
I remember my Mum being really angry when she could not sign my HP form when I bought my first hifi system. This was mid 70's and she was PA to a group managing director of quite a large company at the time. |  | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:40 - Dec 17 with 5013 views | positivity |
i can think of better uses for £36bn than a non-targeted payout, those in genuine need should be supported through existing mechanisms | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:42 - Dec 17 with 4979 views | itfcjoe |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:35 - Dec 17 by Churchman |
Joe’s post covers it perfectly.
There is no point in independent reviews, Ombudsmen and all that stuff. It’s a total waste of time and money if the recommendations are just going to be laughed at. I get pensioners are not thought to be Labour voters like the others they’re going after (farmers, perceived rich people etc) but consistency should apply. You can put all reviews in the bin box too. They are just a delay and ignore mechanisms.
It’s not the principle of equality. It’s how you implement it. |
Like the infected blood scandal, they just get kicked into the long grass in the hope more people die whilst waiting so the payout is smaller - justice delayed and all that.
No Govt was ever going to elect to pay these pensioners out, at least a line can be drawn under it now - the mistakes had been made and there was never any way to suitably sort those out.
I'm sure it will be demonstrated as another way Labour are after pensioners when it was a Tory Govt who agreed to equalise the pension, and a Tory/LD coalition who expedited the timeline and then a Tory Govt who kicked this into the long grass - politics will be played over it by the Tories and LDs now but this stuff should just be removed from that and a key example of where cross party consensus should be seen but never is | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:47 - Dec 17 with 4947 views | bluelagos |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:42 - Dec 17 by itfcjoe |
Like the infected blood scandal, they just get kicked into the long grass in the hope more people die whilst waiting so the payout is smaller - justice delayed and all that.
No Govt was ever going to elect to pay these pensioners out, at least a line can be drawn under it now - the mistakes had been made and there was never any way to suitably sort those out.
I'm sure it will be demonstrated as another way Labour are after pensioners when it was a Tory Govt who agreed to equalise the pension, and a Tory/LD coalition who expedited the timeline and then a Tory Govt who kicked this into the long grass - politics will be played over it by the Tories and LDs now but this stuff should just be removed from that and a key example of where cross party consensus should be seen but never is |
"Tory Govt who agreed to equalise the pension"
Pretty sure it was a result of a court ruling - irony being that women's retirement age was going from 60 to 63 - was challenged in the courts - and the courts ruled it should be equalised. (Men were 65)
Govt could have brought down men's retirement age - but opted to put women's up to meet the equality ruling. (Am sure that was the only affordable option tbf) | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:52 - Dec 17 with 4900 views | positivity |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:47 - Dec 17 by bluelagos |
"Tory Govt who agreed to equalise the pension"
Pretty sure it was a result of a court ruling - irony being that women's retirement age was going from 60 to 63 - was challenged in the courts - and the courts ruled it should be equalised. (Men were 65)
Govt could have brought down men's retirement age - but opted to put women's up to meet the equality ruling. (Am sure that was the only affordable option tbf) |
not sure on 1995, but it was definitely a choice of the coalition government to accelerate the process | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:55 - Dec 17 with 4875 views | Pinewoodblue |
There is an ongoing inequality that needs to be addressed.
You’ll be able to claim the new State Pension when you reach State Pension age if you’re:
a man born on or after 6 April 1951
a woman born on or after 6 April 1953
My wife’s Basic State Pension is £50 less than a man born on the same date receives. Really can’t see how this can be justified. | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:56 - Dec 17 with 4854 views | Swansea_Blue |
It would never happen, but it would have been nice if they'd addressed the inequality by reducing the male retirement age. This seems like a pension grab disguised as an inequality issue. It would have been less lucrative of course, so we could have met them somewhere in the middle at around 63/64 years for both men and women. Or even deferring the age increase and keeping it at 65 wold have felt like there was some focus on people.
But there is no money, says the people who can literally equest the BoE to generate money from nothing. |  |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:57 - Dec 17 with 4852 views | bluelagos |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:55 - Dec 17 by Pinewoodblue |
There is an ongoing inequality that needs to be addressed.
You’ll be able to claim the new State Pension when you reach State Pension age if you’re:
a man born on or after 6 April 1951
a woman born on or after 6 April 1953
My wife’s Basic State Pension is £50 less than a man born on the same date receives. Really can’t see how this can be justified. |
£50 less a week? A year? | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:59 - Dec 17 with 4836 views | positivity |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:55 - Dec 17 by Pinewoodblue |
There is an ongoing inequality that needs to be addressed.
You’ll be able to claim the new State Pension when you reach State Pension age if you’re:
a man born on or after 6 April 1951
a woman born on or after 6 April 1953
My wife’s Basic State Pension is £50 less than a man born on the same date receives. Really can’t see how this can be justified. |
not sure about this one, when did she start to receive it? | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:06 - Dec 17 with 4818 views | Churchman |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:40 - Dec 17 by positivity |
i can think of better uses for £36bn than a non-targeted payout, those in genuine need should be supported through existing mechanisms |
Believe it or not, these people paid taxes and NI too. As an aside, your comment rather reminds me of Scrooge’s view in A Christmas Carol:
“I help to support the establishments I have mentioned--they cost enough; and those who are
badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:10 - Dec 17 with 4795 views | Pinewoodblue |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:57 - Dec 17 by bluelagos |
£50 less a week? A year? |
A week! Current difference between basic state pension and new state pension. You have to have a cut off point but men & women of the same age should get same pension. | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:12 - Dec 17 with 4779 views | positivity |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:06 - Dec 17 by Churchman |
Believe it or not, these people paid taxes and NI too. As an aside, your comment rather reminds me of Scrooge’s view in A Christmas Carol:
“I help to support the establishments I have mentioned--they cost enough; and those who are
badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." |
not my intention. i'm saying i'd rather that the quoted £10,000 went to people in need rather than, for example, theresa may or harriet harman who don't really need it | |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:22 - Dec 17 with 4737 views | BloomBlue |
It will be the same as most things in life. If it affects you, you'll be annoyed, if it doesn't affect you, you will say tough move on.
It's even the same with VAR, if it impacts Town negatively fans moan, but if it's positive fans will say 'swings & roundabouts'. That's why fans should just accept the VAR decision and move on. After fans know VAR is going to be used. |  | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:23 - Dec 17 with 4738 views | DJR |
Leaving aside the question of communication, the real injustice in my view was the rapid acceleration of the increase in the women's state pension by coalition government's Pension Increase Act 2011.
This meant that a women born on 6 April 1953 had a state pension age of 63 years and 2 months, whereas a women born on 6 April 1954 (only one year later) had a state pension age of 66.
How women born on or around 6 April 1954 were expected to plan for that, I will never know.
Steve Webb (a Liberal Democrat) was the pensions minister involved, so to hear the Lib Dems today complaining about today's decision by Liz Kendal, is very hypocritical. [Post edited 17 Dec 2024 16:30]
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:23 - Dec 17 with 4750 views | Trequartista |
I think whether it is a correct or wrong decision has been somewhat overshadowed by the fact Liz Kendall and Angela Rayner have shown themselves to be utter liars.
How you can possible believe a word politicians say? |  |
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| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:28 - Dec 17 with 4671 views | Churchman |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:23 - Dec 17 by Trequartista |
I think whether it is a correct or wrong decision has been somewhat overshadowed by the fact Liz Kendall and Angela Rayner have shown themselves to be utter liars.
How you can possible believe a word politicians say? |
Shock horror surprise - they lied. | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:28 - Dec 17 with 4677 views | bluejacko |
Well the Tories obviously kept kicking it down the road and all that time Starmer and Kendall were calling for this ‘injustice’ to end! The ombudsman obviously states there is a case but hay ho now Starmer has to back up his talk what happens? He backs out,yet another one of his lies!
This Govt really has it in for the elderly of this country. | | | |
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