Forum | So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? by bluelagos

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So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? 15:05 - Dec 17 with 12138 views

Govt just announced they won't be compensated.

Am split tbh, on the one hand the pension age changes were very much in the public domain, but I guess if those impacted weren't aware (or written to) then can see why they'd be mighty peeved.

Plus I guess any dosh that does go their way is less for public services etc.

Thoughts?

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This new lockdown poll - what you reckon?

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 10:51 - Dec 18 with 1778 views

redrickstuhaart

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 09:18 - Dec 18 by flykickingbybgunn
The whole point of this discussion is that these women did not recieve any official notification of changes. My wife and I were unaware that her pension was to be changed until she was 55. So that instead of recieving it in 5 years time at 60 she had to wait until 65 which then became 67. 12 years on.

You must be in a small minority. I knew despite being a man in my 30s at the time.

Anger at moved goalposts is absolutely understandable, but surely she will be better iff unless she chooses not to work?

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 11:07 - Dec 18 with 1748 views

Whos_blue

Classic from shadow business secretary Andrew Griffith, who feels Waspi's have been "betrayed" by Labour.

"I think every Waspi woman and campaigner genuinely believed that this government, the Labour Government, had they got elected, would do something," he tells Sky News.

"They'd all talked about it: Keir Starmer had talked about it, Angela Rayner talked about it, even Liz Kendall, who yesterday said they weren't going to do a single thing about it, had talked about it.

"So it's a big issue of betrayal."

This is the good bit!

"I'm not sitting here saying we would necessarily have done something about it. That's fair.

Edit: That's not to say I think Labour have covered themselves in glory here either.

[Post edited 18 Dec 2024 11:19]

Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 12:25 - Dec 18 with 1702 views

redrickstuhaart

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 11:07 - Dec 18 by Whos_blue

Edit: That's not to say I think Labour have covered themselves in glory here either.

[Post edited 18 Dec 2024 11:19]

Worth noting the report is 3 years old. Another issie disingenuously delayed by the previous government. See also, blood scandal, grenfell cladding and post office.

Grown ups now sorting things out and taking the criticism for it.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 12:36 - Dec 18 with 1678 views

giant_stow

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 09:00 - Dec 18 by hype313

I have no love for the Tories or this current lot, but I bet if the Tories did this everyone would be up in arms, shouting from the rooftops "They Lied!"

Interesting how people change their moral viewpoint on partizan lines.

Maybe I'm getting cynical in my later years, but from what I've seen in the past 30 years, I can count on one hand how many genuine, decent politicians there have been, the rest are in it for themselves and power hungry.

Once the realisation hits, it's more viewing them with humour, rather than anger.

That's all fair, but personally I'd blame the electoral system: it encourages grand promises from politicians once every 5 years and never lets them forget those promises, even if circumstances change.

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So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 13:51 - Dec 18 with 1606 views

flykickingbybgunn

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 10:51 - Dec 18 by redrickstuhaart
You must be in a small minority. I knew despite being a man in my 30s at the time. Anger at moved goalposts is absolutely understandable, but surely she will be better iff unless she chooses not to work?

She has been disabled and unable to work since she was 50 due to arthritis and her income has been £50/week disability benefit.
Working is and was not an option.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 13:58 - Dec 18 with 1585 views

redrickstuhaart

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 13:51 - Dec 18 by flykickingbybgunn
She has been disabled and unable to work since she was 50 due to arthritis and her income has been £50/week disability benefit. Working is and was not an option.

So this is about the equalisation for you rather than lack of notice, which is what was dealt with yesterday. I get the frustration but clearly no reason now why women should retire earlier.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 14:02 - Dec 18 with 1581 views

Churchman

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 12:36 - Dec 18 by giant_stow
That's all fair, but personally I'd blame the electoral system: it encourages grand promises from politicians once every 5 years and never lets them forget those promises, even if circumstances change.

Nobody forces politicians to tell lies or misinform. Or to sign petitions, shake hands with a woman in purple for the camera. They chose to do it. If they genuinely agreed with them, follow it through. Nothing has changed. Starmer the same. The idea that ‘well it’s just politicians, they all do it’ may be true, but it isn’t right.

I don’t care whether it’s an alien a$$wipe on a jolly to Barnard Castle while everyone else is trapped indoors, a booze up at number 10, an outright lie over ‘we didn’t see the books’ (they did) or a handbrake turn on this topic. It’s wrong.

The big issue though is the process for independent review of injustice. If you are going to trample all over an Ombudsman’s judgement, there’s no point in commissioning them. In the bin they go. Let the government decide, no right of appeal, whatever the level of injustice. At least there’s a saving for the hardworking taxpayer there. But it’s dangerous and wrong.

Personally, I believe these processes should be beefed up, sped up and made mandatory. There isn’t the money? Of course there is when it suits. One off £10bn? In public spending of £1.4tn pa it’s not a lot.

Actually, politicians in salaries, expenses etc cost the taxpayer about £200k pa. There’s about 600 of them. How about scrapping all bar say ten? That’d save £118m a year. For all the use our MPs are, they might as well.

At least with the Waspi mob most would have spent the money in the real economy providing an income for people in this country, unlike multi millionaire MPs where much their paltry salaries and 5.5% pay rise last year probably winds up in the Caymans or somewhere.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 14:06 - Dec 18 with 1566 views

ElderGrizzly

Badenoch admitted/was made to admit at PMQs today, that the Tory decision would have been the same as the Labour decision.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 14:10 - Dec 18 with 1551 views

Pinewoodblue

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 13:58 - Dec 18 by redrickstuhaart
So this is about the equalisation for you rather than lack of notice, which is what was dealt with yesterday. I get the frustration but clearly no reason now why women should retire earlier.

Prior to 1940 women retired at 65.

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So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 14:25 - Dec 18 with 1529 views

DJR

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 13:51 - Dec 18 by flykickingbybgunn
She has been disabled and unable to work since she was 50 due to arthritis and her income has been £50/week disability benefit. Working is and was not an option.

I hope she gets National Insurance credits for those years, so that she is able to build up a decent state pension.

If not, there is the option of making voluntary NI contributions.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 14:35 - Dec 18 with 1497 views

DJR

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 14:10 - Dec 18 by Pinewoodblue
Prior to 1940 women retired at 65.

Yes, I came across that and wondered why.

I came across this explanation.

Prior to 1940, state pension age was 65 for both men and women
Women’s state pension age was reduced to 60 as part of a package to
enable married couples (where thewife was usually younger than the
husband) to receive a pension at the couples’ rate when the husband
reached 65 This was aimed in particular at households where men in
receipt of unemployment assistance, which included an allowance for a
dependent wife, lost the allowance at age 65 if their wife was younger
The change was introduced at a time when married women were largely dependent on their husbands’ pension provisions but it was also
extended to single women.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 14:41 - Dec 18 with 1487 views

Churchman

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 14:25 - Dec 18 by DJR
I hope she gets National Insurance credits for those years, so that she is able to build up a decent state pension. If not, there is the option of making voluntary NI contributions.

The process of making voluntary contributions is not the easiest but it is do-able. I did it for Mrs C and the cost at the time was about £800 per NI year. I calculated that she’d need to live about three years into collecting state pension to start making it worthwhile. It was worth the gamble /investment at the time.

You can find out what contributions you’ve made and your state pension forecast on the government website and that’s the first thing to do if you want to know how it’s all looking.

If you are unable to work, you should be entitled to NI credits. I was years ago when I went onto Jobseeker’s Allowance a couple of times many years ago. It was worth it. What the rules are these days, no idea but worth exploring.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:43 - Dec 18 with 1432 views

DJR

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 14:41 - Dec 18 by Churchman

Yes, it is not straight forward to do.

As it is, I was a couple of years short of 35 years (it's something to do with being a civil servant for many years and so paying a different rate of NI), so have bought one year at about £800.

I've ended up about 50 pence short of the full new state pension but have to buy a whole year to make up the difference.

I haven't quite made up my mind whether to do it. It's probably not worth it in terms of value for money but it would bring with it the certain knowledge that I was being paid the right (full) pension, which is the figure that is always quoted.

[Post edited 18 Dec 2024 15:55]

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:11 - Dec 18 with 1401 views

bluejacko

My wife summed it up,
IF they hadn’t all paraded with the waspies and promised to solve the ‘injustice’ then the decision would probably have been accepted.
However to stand there and tell barefaced lies then I’m afraid she will never forgive them!
ps that’s both parties!

[Post edited 18 Dec 2024 16:13]

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:37 - Dec 18 with 1356 views

flykickingbybgunn

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 13:58 - Dec 18 by redrickstuhaart
So this is about the equalisation for you rather than lack of notice, which is what was dealt with yesterday. I get the frustration but clearly no reason now why women should retire earlier.

Never was about why women should retire earlier.
Always about letting people know in sufficient time so they can prepare for changes.

[Post edited 18 Dec 2024 16:44]

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:56 - Dec 18 with 1330 views

Churchman

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:43 - Dec 18 by DJR

[Post edited 18 Dec 2024 15:55]

It’s because you were ‘contracted out’ - see attached for explanation. This ended with NSP in 2016.

https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/state-pension/what-was-con

Despite 40+ years of NI I was still short by a year and a bit for the same reason, so bought an extra year. Mrs C had stopped working at about 50 and was also contracted out for much of her career. I bought additional years contributions for her too.

I, in particular, was a short of a full NSP but when I did the maths I’d have needed to live about 20 years (from memory) beyond 66 to justify it so I didn’t bother. I’d worked out sufficient retirement provision on my other pensions anyway as I didn’t trust the Tories or the current lot.

I’ve been asked on here whether we were aware of the Waspi decision when it was originally made. The answer is yes because of where I worked and my interest in that sort of stuff (by 2000 I was actually working on understanding pensions for a project I was on anyway). Mrs C, being a teacher (vocation n all that) just wasn’t interested, had no idea and received no notification.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 18:09 - Dec 18 with 1266 views

redrickstuhaart

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:37 - Dec 18 by flykickingbybgunn
Never was about why women should retire earlier. Always about letting people know in sufficient time so they can prepare for changes. [Post edited 18 Dec 2024 16:44]

What alternate arrangements would have been made?

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 18:23 - Dec 18 with 1251 views

Swansea_Blue

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 09:00 - Dec 18 by hype313

I think this is a joint effort. Labour increased to 65, the Coalition accelerated the implementation and then upped the qualifying age again. Any ire can be thrown the way of all 3 parties.

A lot of people don’t seem to have an issue with the age changes though, which is probably why there’s not huge pushback on here.

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So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 19:00 - Dec 18 with 1228 views

azuremerlangus

Not sure if Starmer promised he would give ‘justice’ - and what actually this means in this case but the parity in pensions was always coming once the sexual discrimination act was passed in 1975, and the the changes to pensions announced in 1992. Given the time notice associated with these dates I don’t really see what the problem is TBH.

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So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 19:01 - Dec 18 with 1224 views

north_stand77

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:19 - Dec 17 by redrickstuhaart
Can I just add the suggestion that perhaps women should have a high retirement age given the disaprity in life expectancy and their tendency, on average, to less physically punishing or dangerous jobs? [runs] The first point actually has some merit....

Wow, I don't want to get in to a row with you, but your ridiculous, lack of understanding of what actually occurred is astonishing.
You clearly have a lack of knowledge of the facts which go back many years and zero compassion on how it has left an awful lot of women in very difficult circumstances.
Shame on you to believe the lies that Starmer etc are telling.

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 19:06 - Dec 18 with 1212 views

redrickstuhaart

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 18:23 - Dec 18 by Swansea_Blue
I think this is a joint effort. Labour increased to 65, the Coalition accelerated the implementation and then upped the qualifying age again. Any ire can be thrown the way of all 3 parties. A lot of people don’t seem to have an issue with the age changes though, which is probably why there’s not huge pushback on here.

The age changes are just inarguable in principle. But many are still conflating the two things.

Example on the radio earlier, speaking with angry Waspi protesters. One said she had to live on savings for 5 years. Not sure how that came about, she did not have to stop work.... But fair enough, perhaps she had made detailed plans which resulted in ending work at 60 and was wealthy enough to maintain that early retirement and her plans.

Second one, just complained about no longer being able to retire at 60, and having to keep working until 65. Which she can really have no complaints about, and has nothing to di with the governments decision (which, of course, should have been take by the last government 3 years ago when the Ombudsman report came out)

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 19:09 - Dec 18 with 1208 views

redrickstuhaart

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 19:01 - Dec 18 by north_stand77
Wow, I don't want to get in to a row with you, but your ridiculous, lack of understanding of what actually occurred is astonishing. You clearly have a lack of knowledge of the facts which go back many years and zero compassion on how it has left an awful lot of women in very difficult circumstances. Shame on you to believe the lies that Starmer etc are telling.

No. I don't have a lack of knowledge or understanding. And if you are going to make offensive comments like that, you need to offer some specifics.

Please explain these "circumstances" caused by the imperfect notification.

[Post edited 18 Dec 2024 19:26]

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 19:48 - Dec 18 with 1168 views

J2BLUE

The cynical part of me thinks this isn't really about the Waspi women and is more about not setting a precedent when they dramatically raise the pension age in the future with a lot less warning.

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So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 19:59 - Dec 18 with 1149 views

Churchman

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:11 - Dec 18 by bluejacko
My wife summed it up, IF they hadn’t all paraded with the waspies and promised to solve the ‘injustice’ then the decision would probably have been accepted. However to stand there and tell barefaced lies then I’m afraid she will never forgive them! ps that’s both parties! [Post edited 18 Dec 2024 16:13]

Today’s Starmer struggles as reported by BBC. It doesn’t make great reading.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy85edy0nxo

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 20:23 - Dec 18 with 1096 views

redrickstuhaart

So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 19:59 - Dec 18 by Churchman
Today’s Starmer struggles as reported by BBC. It doesn’t make great reading. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy85edy0nxo

Dianne abbot made the fair point that they have been supportive in teh past.

And?

Times are different. Spare cash is not a thing currently, and there is generally no financial loss for these people.

Again, this should have been addressed by the last government 3 years ago when the report was done. But they have stalled in order to avoid dealing with it and push it on to the next government...

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