| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? 15:05 - Dec 17 with 11600 views | bluelagos |
Govt just announced they won't be compensated.
Am split tbh, on the one hand the pension age changes were very much in the public domain, but I guess if those impacted weren't aware (or written to) then can see why they'd be mighty peeved.
Plus I guess any dosh that does go their way is less for public services etc.
Thoughts? |  |
| |  |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:36 - Dec 17 with 1180 views | Pinewoodblue |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:28 - Dec 17 by bluejacko |
Well the Tories obviously kept kicking it down the road and all that time Starmer and Kendall were calling for this ‘injustice’ to end! The ombudsman obviously states there is a case but hay ho now Starmer has to back up his talk what happens? He backs out,yet another one of his lies!
This Govt really has it in for the elderly of this country. |
More a lack of integrity than lies. He meant it when he said it.
Interestingly it wasn’t mentioned in the election manifesto nor, as far as I know, was it raised by any other party. If it had have been the he may well have lied. |  |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:40 - Dec 17 with 1165 views | mutters |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:55 - Dec 17 by Pinewoodblue |
There is an ongoing inequality that needs to be addressed.
You’ll be able to claim the new State Pension when you reach State Pension age if you’re:
a man born on or after 6 April 1951
a woman born on or after 6 April 1953
My wife’s Basic State Pension is £50 less than a man born on the same date receives. Really can’t see how this can be justified. |
How many years paid up contributions did you both make during your career? The weekly amount of normally based on that |  |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:44 - Dec 17 with 1141 views | Churchman |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:23 - Dec 17 by DJR |
Leaving aside the question of communication, the real injustice in my view was the rapid acceleration of the increase in the women's state pension by coalition government's Pension Increase Act 2011.
This meant that a women born on 6 April 1953 had a state pension age of 63 years and 2 months, whereas a women born on 6 April 1954 (only one year later) had a state pension age of 66.
How women born on or around 6 April 1954 were expected to plan for that, I will never know.
Steve Webb (a Liberal Democrat) was the pensions minister involved, so to hear the Lib Dems today complaining about today's decision by Liz Kendal, is very hypocritical. [Post edited 17 Dec 2024 16:30]
|
My sister was born in Dec 54. It didn’t really affect her too much beyond the financial loss because she had a workplace pension and wanted/could work beyond 60. But it could have done.
It’s the principle as much as anything else, along with how things are done that annoys me. I hear all about ‘the taxpayer’, ‘the hard working person’. So a retired person is a just drain on these people. A parasite.
That they paid in all their lives in many cases? Irrelevant. That they often still pay tax and spend money in the real economy? Let’s ignore that inconvenient truth.
Webb, Kendall, Rayner, the tories. They’re all the same. If enough noise is generated, no doubt another review will be announced for somebody to ignore further down the line. |  | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:45 - Dec 17 with 1130 views | Pinewoodblue |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:40 - Dec 17 by mutters |
How many years paid up contributions did you both make during your career? The weekly amount of normally based on that |
More than enough years of contribution to receive full pension.
My contributions are not relevant being older I get the basic state pension as of course would a female my age. | |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:47 - Dec 17 with 1117 views | redrickstuhaart |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:28 - Dec 17 by Churchman |
Shock horror surprise - they lied. |
You realise that a lie is a deliberate untruth, not a changed view driven by more information and changed circumstances?
Not sure how you conclude this was one rather than the other. [Post edited 17 Dec 2024 16:48]
|  | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:47 - Dec 17 with 1118 views | mutters |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:36 - Dec 17 by Pinewoodblue |
More a lack of integrity than lies. He meant it when he said it.
Interestingly it wasn’t mentioned in the election manifesto nor, as far as I know, was it raised by any other party. If it had have been the he may well have lied. |
Yes, lack of integrity by the current government.
Funny how when they were in opposition they jumped on the bandwagon about how the Tories had done the WASPI women wrong, now they have the chance to back up what they "supported" and they run for the hills.
Sadly they are all as bad as each other, say anything to get into or cling to power. Labour really aren't they difference maker a lot of people hoped they would be after the last 14 years. | |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:48 - Dec 17 with 1107 views | positivity |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:45 - Dec 17 by Pinewoodblue |
More than enough years of contribution to receive full pension.
My contributions are not relevant being older I get the basic state pension as of course would a female my age. |
when did your wife start to receive the state pension? | |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:50 - Dec 17 with 1106 views | flykickingbybgunn |
The difference in pension age for men and women was originally because men tend to marry younger women. The idea was that, within a little, they could retire at the same time.
My wife is a Waspi. She became disabled at 40. She only found out at the age of 55 that she was not going to be allowed to retire, as we had expected to at 60. By then it is too late to organise a meaningful private alturnative.
We have struggled in the interviening years on just my pension. It has been hard. This year she at last got her pension 6 years after we expected it.
We are far from wealthy now but no longer breadline.
I understand why this has happened. But it's implementation has been appalling.
If it had been done by a private company they would have been taken to court over it. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:52 - Dec 17 with 1091 views | mutters |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:45 - Dec 17 by Pinewoodblue |
More than enough years of contribution to receive full pension.
My contributions are not relevant being older I get the basic state pension as of course would a female my age. |
For both parties? If so then you should be getting the same amounts unless you drew it at different ages (if you deferred your for a few years then you get more each week as a result). However I do know that pension calcs historically have been a bit random, my mum for example gets a full pension but she also gets a top up for being a widower as well. She's in her late 70s so the calcs at the time were probably very different to how they do it now | |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:54 - Dec 17 with 1069 views | redrickstuhaart |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:44 - Dec 17 by Churchman |
My sister was born in Dec 54. It didn’t really affect her too much beyond the financial loss because she had a workplace pension and wanted/could work beyond 60. But it could have done.
It’s the principle as much as anything else, along with how things are done that annoys me. I hear all about ‘the taxpayer’, ‘the hard working person’. So a retired person is a just drain on these people. A parasite.
That they paid in all their lives in many cases? Irrelevant. That they often still pay tax and spend money in the real economy? Let’s ignore that inconvenient truth.
Webb, Kendall, Rayner, the tories. They’re all the same. If enough noise is generated, no doubt another review will be announced for somebody to ignore further down the line. |
There are two things here.
One is the decision today which relates to the Ombudmsan's recomendation, which is about compensation (on a fairly abritrary basis) for failure to tell people about it in a better or more consistent way. The Government view is that this is something which really would not have made any real financial difference to the vast majority (if not all) people affected. They are right on that. Firstly it was well publicised. Secondly, unless someone quit work early in reliance on a misunderstanding, and then couldnt go back to work, it made no real difference to them.
Second, is the decision to equalise which was taken a very long time ago now and is clearly correct and fair. The anger comes from the entirely natural reaction to goalposts being moved when you are looking forward to giving up daily work. But I still struggle to see how it could be deemed unfair or to have actuaslly prejudiced anyone. I get it that women in the 60s and 70s had differnet roles and entitlements. Frighteningly recent. But what difference does that make now? A woman who had to work a couple of extra years beyond what she had initially expected is not actually hurt by that (save for having to do the extra work like everyone else does). Unless that woman had, for instance, given up work at 50 on the basis she had saved enough to run her until the state pension kicked in, it makes no other difference. | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:56 - Dec 17 with 1066 views | positivity |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:47 - Dec 17 by mutters |
Yes, lack of integrity by the current government.
Funny how when they were in opposition they jumped on the bandwagon about how the Tories had done the WASPI women wrong, now they have the chance to back up what they "supported" and they run for the hills.
Sadly they are all as bad as each other, say anything to get into or cling to power. Labour really aren't they difference maker a lot of people hoped they would be after the last 14 years. |
it was in the 2019 labour manifesto, but for some reason, the people didn't vote for it, it wasn't in the 2024 manifesto as far as i'm aware.
it's like saying they've lied by not bringing in the promised free broadband | |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:04 - Dec 17 with 1026 views | Churchman |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:47 - Dec 17 by redrickstuhaart |
You realise that a lie is a deliberate untruth, not a changed view driven by more information and changed circumstances?
Not sure how you conclude this was one rather than the other. [Post edited 17 Dec 2024 16:48]
|
Sorry, what more information and changed circumstances can change the recommendations of an independent review that they agreed with at the time? | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:13 - Dec 17 with 997 views | redrickstuhaart |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:04 - Dec 17 by Churchman |
Sorry, what more information and changed circumstances can change the recommendations of an independent review that they agreed with at the time? |
The financial situation we are in, and the specific findings and reports of the ombudsman upon which today's decision was made? | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:15 - Dec 17 with 989 views | homer_123 |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 15:21 - Dec 17 by bluelagos |
Fair points all.
I was told a while back about women not being able to get a mortgage without a man to cosign until the mid 70s, and thought that had to be a wind up - did some googling and it really was that way for building societies.
Absolutely crazy how recently that was the case. |
"Absolutely crazy how recently that was the case."
Well, that's 50 years ago......so, yes, I understand the sentiment of the comment but in actuality - it's half a century ago.
Christ I feel old! |  |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:19 - Dec 17 with 966 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:56 - Dec 17 by positivity |
it was in the 2019 labour manifesto, but for some reason, the people didn't vote for it, it wasn't in the 2024 manifesto as far as i'm aware.
it's like saying they've lied by not bringing in the promised free broadband |
78% Of those able to vote did not vote for the Labour manifesto this time either but we still got it.
I dont think Waspi women is a party political point. The government of the day made a bog of the notification to those that were going to be affected.
No government since has grasped the nettle, in much the same way as the infected blood thing and, to be fair the poor Post Office people.
Cost too much see.
Kick the can down the road. Let some other bug ..r pick up the pieces. | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:19 - Dec 17 with 966 views | redrickstuhaart |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:15 - Dec 17 by homer_123 |
"Absolutely crazy how recently that was the case."
Well, that's 50 years ago......so, yes, I understand the sentiment of the comment but in actuality - it's half a century ago.
Christ I feel old! |
Can I just add the suggestion that perhaps women should have a high retirement age given the disaprity in life expectancy and their tendency, on average, to less physically punishing or dangerous jobs?
[runs]
The first point actually has some merit.... | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:23 - Dec 17 with 946 views | positivity |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:19 - Dec 17 by flykickingbybgunn |
78% Of those able to vote did not vote for the Labour manifesto this time either but we still got it.
I dont think Waspi women is a party political point. The government of the day made a bog of the notification to those that were going to be affected.
No government since has grasped the nettle, in much the same way as the infected blood thing and, to be fair the poor Post Office people.
Cost too much see.
Kick the can down the road. Let some other bug ..r pick up the pieces. |
unfortunately people have never voted to change fptp either! | |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:35 - Dec 17 with 921 views | Churchman |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:13 - Dec 17 by redrickstuhaart |
The financial situation we are in, and the specific findings and reports of the ombudsman upon which today's decision was made? |
The BBC says
‘But Kendall said there was evidence that there was "considerable awareness" of the changes to the pension age, and sending letters earlier would not have made a difference to their ability to make retirement choices.
She also said that there was no evidence of "direct financial loss" resulting from the government's decision.
"Given the vast majority of women knew the state pension age was increasing, the government does not believe paying a flat rate to all women at a cost of up to £10.5bn would be fair or proportionate to taxpayers," she said.
Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said he understood the concern of the Waspi women, but had to take into account whether it was right "to impose a further burden on the taxpayer".
That’s not what Kendall and Rayner said in 2019. Nothing has changed regarding this so it looks to me as if they were either telling porkies for political gain in 2019 or doing so now - if the BBC is accurate.
If this is about the financial situation now, they knew what it was in the run up to the general election and could have announced this along with binning winter fuel allowance. I wonder why they didn’t?
I will reiterate - the rightness of matching pension ages is not an issue. Equality means just that. The how you do it and when is the issue along with the credibility of what you say if you are a politician. We had 14 years of disgraceful politicians. Let’s try and move away from that. | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:39 - Dec 17 with 905 views | bournemouthblue |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:12 - Dec 17 by positivity |
not my intention. i'm saying i'd rather that the quoted £10,000 went to people in need rather than, for example, theresa may or harriet harman who don't really need it |
So you would means test the compensation |  |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:44 - Dec 17 with 891 views | BloomBlue |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:35 - Dec 17 by Churchman |
The BBC says
‘But Kendall said there was evidence that there was "considerable awareness" of the changes to the pension age, and sending letters earlier would not have made a difference to their ability to make retirement choices.
She also said that there was no evidence of "direct financial loss" resulting from the government's decision.
"Given the vast majority of women knew the state pension age was increasing, the government does not believe paying a flat rate to all women at a cost of up to £10.5bn would be fair or proportionate to taxpayers," she said.
Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said he understood the concern of the Waspi women, but had to take into account whether it was right "to impose a further burden on the taxpayer".
That’s not what Kendall and Rayner said in 2019. Nothing has changed regarding this so it looks to me as if they were either telling porkies for political gain in 2019 or doing so now - if the BBC is accurate.
If this is about the financial situation now, they knew what it was in the run up to the general election and could have announced this along with binning winter fuel allowance. I wonder why they didn’t?
I will reiterate - the rightness of matching pension ages is not an issue. Equality means just that. The how you do it and when is the issue along with the credibility of what you say if you are a politician. We had 14 years of disgraceful politicians. Let’s try and move away from that. |
What's changed is Kendall and Rayner were in the opposition in 2019.
Life is a lot easier in opposition as you can say anything you want, once in power you suddenly realise things are completely different.
They can fluff it up as much as they like, but they both lied. |  | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:45 - Dec 17 with 890 views | positivity |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:39 - Dec 17 by bournemouthblue |
So you would means test the compensation |
i'd support those who need it through existing provisions rather than having a specific compensation for all women born in the '50s.
would be very difficult to means test, how can you document that you were affected?
in any case, the mooted compensation wouldn't have solved anything for those who are genuinely affected, and would have been very expensive to give to all 3-4m people | |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 17:50 - Dec 17 with 873 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:23 - Dec 17 by Trequartista |
I think whether it is a correct or wrong decision has been somewhat overshadowed by the fact Liz Kendall and Angela Rayner have shown themselves to be utter liars.
How you can possible believe a word politicians say? |
It seems that these women have been shafted. |  |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 18:03 - Dec 17 with 854 views | itfcjoe |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 16:28 - Dec 17 by Churchman |
Shock horror surprise - they lied. |
Rayner was talking about it when it was a Labour manifesto commitment in 2019, and now has been elected on a 2024 manifesto where it wasn’t - it’s hardly lying |  |
| |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 18:43 - Dec 17 with 800 views | Churchman |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 18:03 - Dec 17 by itfcjoe |
Rayner was talking about it when it was a Labour manifesto commitment in 2019, and now has been elected on a 2024 manifesto where it wasn’t - it’s hardly lying |
According to Angela Rayner in 2019 the money was to use her words ‘stolen’. Her words, nobody else’s. So was it stolen or was it not? If she didn’t make it up was she ‘mistaken’ then or now? What difference does the manifesto or time make, beyond the tories hoping the problem would literally go away by the people affected dying?
Kendall is whistling a totally different tune now. At what point did she the lightbulb of realisation come on for her and what additional information triggered the change of view?
You either believe in something or you don’t.
What’s interesting is that independent Ombudsman recommendations: in the bin. A referendum which is advisory: stick to it at literally any cost regardless of what you didn’t know when you held it in the first place. Strange old world. | | | |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 18:45 - Dec 17 with 796 views | redrickstuhaart |
| So what's the Twtd view on Waspi women? on 18:43 - Dec 17 by Churchman |
According to Angela Rayner in 2019 the money was to use her words ‘stolen’. Her words, nobody else’s. So was it stolen or was it not? If she didn’t make it up was she ‘mistaken’ then or now? What difference does the manifesto or time make, beyond the tories hoping the problem would literally go away by the people affected dying?
Kendall is whistling a totally different tune now. At what point did she the lightbulb of realisation come on for her and what additional information triggered the change of view?
You either believe in something or you don’t.
What’s interesting is that independent Ombudsman recommendations: in the bin. A referendum which is advisory: stick to it at literally any cost regardless of what you didn’t know when you held it in the first place. Strange old world. |
Ombudsman decision tend to be very consumer friendly.
What loss have these people suffered? | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
